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Week 14 vs Seattle

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He had a really good first half. After half time adjustments, he completed only 6 of 16 passes, the game got out of hand and he was hitting Royce Freeman (7-51 yds) and TEs on checkdowns against the prevent in garbage time.
Yep, Carroll made adjustments. Kelly did not. Mills took what was there in the framework of what was called. Atleast he didn't make rookie mistakes. When it was 19-13 he did force one throw but got away with it. Bottom line for me is after the 1st drive they only scored 6 pts This is with Mills playing well. IMHO
.
A couple of throws to Cooks like the PI on Cooks throw and the throw that Cooks was down at the 1 on were great throws. Very decisive decisions by Mills and something I hope to see more of.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Seems like a great plan for a rebuilding team to me.

If you had 2 picks in the 10-20 range who would you be looking at picking? Say 10 and 15?

I would go with Penning at 10 and Linderbaum at 15. Plus Kinnard at 34.
I would be looking at Green and Lloyd and best available corner at 34
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I would be looking at Green and Lloyd and best available corner at 34
Very solid choices.


I just want the ol fixed and to find a CB somewhere in the draft.

A draft of Penning/Linderbaum and Kinnard does just this.

Checkout a very underrated lb. Chad Muma. Late 2nd/early 3rd.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Very solid choices.


I just want the ol fixed and to find a CB somewhere in the draft.

A draft of Penning/Linderbaum and Kinnard does just this.

Checkout a very underrated lb. Chad Muma. Late 2nd/early 3rd.
I can see the board meltdown after trading back then drafting a Center:strangle:

But in reality not just any Center, a Center who would impact QB play as much or more than a LT. So to your point building out the OL, using Tunsil salary to pay for them all would probably be a smart path.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Yep, Carroll made adjustments. Kelly did not. Mills took what was there in the framework of what was called. Atleast he didn't make rookie mistakes. When it was 19-13 he did force one throw but got away with it. Bottom line for me is after the 1st drive they only scored 6 pts This is with Mills playing well. IMHO
.
A couple of throws to Cooks like the PI on Cooks throw and the throw that Cooks was down at the 1 on were great throws. Very decisive decisions by Mills and something I hope to see more of.
Mills completed passes to 10 different receivers. Even B Cooks was impressed with his check downs calling them indicative of vet status. He’s growing it seems. Kelly isn’t, made no halftime adjustments when the Texans apparently, from what I’ve read, gained momentum and IMO should be replaced by Pep this week.
 
The cap hit isn't why I would trade him. There will be plenty of cap space available in 2023.

The culture is what I'm trying to change.
Maybe yes, but again lets say you can sign 2-3 real, starter vets for the same price as Tunsil. There is actually some big names coming free that year. Tyreek Hill, Marcus Peters, Kareem Hunt just to name a few and lots of QBs, now of course many of them will be resigned before they become free and many of the free ones won't be the player they are now or have been in the past but still that could be a lot of talent flowing in to firm up the team and mentor the rookies.

Here's the thing, I like Tunsil and I said then what I say now that he was worth the price and it was a good trade at the time. However, with the benefit of hindsight and knowing what we know now its time to cut our losses with him and get what we can in return and get ready to roll the dice again. If other parts of the team had been better Tunsil might have been the difference maker that got us over the hump in 2019 or 2020. In 2021 and beyond though he is a luxury that not only we can't afford but that we are giving up other possible nice things to keep.
 
Mills completed passes to 10 different receivers. Even B Cooks was impressed with his check downs calling them indicative of vet status. He’s growing it seems. Kelly isn’t, made no halftime adjustments when the Texans apparently, from what I’ve read, gained momentum and IMO should be replaced by Pep this week.
I agree that Kelly is in over his head, he was from day 1, but everyone saying he should be replaced by Pep I'm not sure what Pep has shown to prove he would be better? I mean he's only been OC one time and that was with Luck as his QB. Other than that he has bounced around pretty much every year even taking a HC job for the XFL. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good at it but why do people keep bringing his name up? Is it just because he's there or have I missed something?
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Maybe yes, but again lets say you can sign 2-3 real, starter vets for the same price as Tunsil. There is actually some big names coming free that year. Tyreek Hill, Marcus Peters, Kareem Hunt just to name a few and lots of QBs, now of course many of them will be resigned before they become free and many of the free ones won't be the player they are now or have been in the past but still that could be a lot of talent flowing in to firm up the team and mentor the rookies.

Here's the thing, I like Tunsil and I said then what I say now that he was worth the price and it was a good trade at the time. However, with the benefit of hindsight and knowing what we know now its time to cut our losses with him and get what we can in return and get ready to roll the dice again. If other parts of the team had been better Tunsil might have been the difference maker that got us over the hump in 2019 or 2020. In 2021 and beyond though he is a luxury that not only we can't afford but that we are giving up other possible nice things to keep.
Here is problem, only way that works is if Caserio can sell high and buy low. So far he’s not set a good example. Ideally your 100% correct. What I’m suggesting is simply replacing his salary with as many high draft picks as possible, on rookie contracts. But I’m not sure how many teams would be willing to take on his salary and give Texans 1st or 2nd rd draft capital? Most likely be player swaps, 3/1 or something and if those 3 players become starters, at least one on OL, that maybe best case..,,
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Maybe yes, but again lets say you can sign 2-3 real, starter vets for the same price as Tunsil. There is actually some big names coming free that year. Tyreek Hill, Marcus Peters, Kareem Hunt just to name a few and lots of QBs, now of course many of them will be resigned before they become free and many of the free ones won't be the player they are now or have been in the past but still that could be a lot of talent flowing in to firm up the team and mentor the rookies.

Here's the thing, I like Tunsil and I said then what I say now that he was worth the price and it was a good trade at the time. However, with the benefit of hindsight and knowing what we know now its time to cut our losses with him and get what we can in return and get ready to roll the dice again. If other parts of the team had been better Tunsil might have been the difference maker that got us over the hump in 2019 or 2020. In 2021 and beyond though he is a luxury that not only we can't afford but that we are giving up other possible nice things to keep.
Thing is, no fa worth a crap is going to want to join the Texans this off-season.

I don't consider the LT a luxury position.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...last yr they had trouble getting him to practice...
First I've heard about this. If true, he's a low character person. But last years is last year. I'd be more concerned about him milking a thumb injury this year. But googling, he actually had surgery to repair the ligament. I'm sure management is getting medical advice. The way they are emptying the trash this year, I really wouldn't expect them to tolerate "milking". Does anyone know what rehab time is legit?
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
I agree that Kelly is in over his head, he was from day 1, but everyone saying he should be replaced by Pep I'm not sure what Pep has shown to prove he would be better? I mean he's only been OC one time and that was with Luck as his QB. Other than that he has bounced around pretty much every year even taking a HC job for the XFL. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good at it but why do people keep bringing his name up? Is it just because he's there or have I missed something?
Probably just human nature. Pep is a QB guru, no sense in messing with one thing that works. Nick & Jack will simply replace Kelly in the offseason and board believes he is the problem but in fact only a scapegoat.
 
Thing is, no fa worth a crap is going to want to join the Texans this off-season.

I don't consider the LT a luxury position.
We're not talking about this off season we are talking about 23 which by then Caserio, if he is what we hope he is, should be able to maybe not fix this mess but at least have done enough to show that the situation is no longer dire. And yes an all pro on the biggest contract in history for his position guarding a 3rd round QB when a team is in rebuild is a luxury.
 
First I've heard about this. If true, he's a low character person. But last years is last year. I'd be more concerned about him milking a thumb injury this year. But googling, he actually had surgery to repair the ligament. I'm sure management is getting medical advice. The way they are emptying the trash this year, I really wouldn't expect them to tolerate "milking". Does anyone know what rehab time is legit?
Good question, hey @CloakNNNdagger got any expert input for us?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We're not talking about this off season we are talking about 23 which by then Caserio, if he is what we hope he is, should be able to maybe not fix this mess but at least have done enough to show that the situation is no longer dire. And yes an all pro on the biggest contract in history for his position guarding a 3rd round QB when a team is in rebuild is a luxury.
I didn't realize you were talking about moving him in 2023.

He won't have the largest contract for a LT by the 2023 off-season.

I don't care where a QB is drafted, protecting him so he can develop properly isn't a luxury. Would you feel the same way if Lawrence was the Texans starting QB? Because so far Mills has played better than Lawrence.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Probably just human nature. Pep is a QB guru, no sense in messing with one thing that works. Nick & Jack will simply replace Kelly in the offseason and board believes he is the problem but in fact only a scapegoat.
He's not the scapegoat

He will be used as the reason to keep Culley around another season while the rebuild truly starts. The plan all along was to get a new HC in place for the 2023 season.
 
I didn't realize you were talking about moving him in 2023.

He won't have the largest contract for a LT by the 2023 off-season.

I don't care where a QB is drafted, protecting him so he can develop properly isn't a luxury. Would you feel the same way if Lawrence was the Texans starting QB? Because so far Mills has played better than Lawrence.
I'm talking about moving him whenever we got the best offer, if I was Caserio and a team came to me tomorrow and offered me a 1st and 2nd or maybe just a 1st for Tunsil then I'd pack his bags myself. If we don't get good value then I wouldn't trade him but I also wouldn't extend his contract or give him another mega deal either unless he'll do it in a way that gives ways to have cap relief.

As far as Lawrence goes yes I'd still feel the same way because to me Lawrence, while talented, was blessed by being dropped into about as good a situation as a college QB could have been. I'm pretty sure almost any QB with any talent could have enjoyed success on that Clemson team and even still at the end of the day they lost the big game. Is Mills as good as Lawrence? Eye test says no and stats say yes so time will tell but yeah even if it was Lawrence I would most likely feel the same. Of course I also wouldn't have Lawrence any where close to the field his rookie year but thats me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm talking about moving him whenever we got the best offer, if I was Caserio and a team came to me tomorrow and offered me a 1st and 2nd or maybe just a 1st for Tunsil then I'd pack his bags myself. If we don't get good value then I wouldn't trade him but I also wouldn't extend his contract or give him another mega deal either unless he'll do it in a way that gives ways to have cap relief.

As far as Lawrence goes yes I'd still feel the same way because to me Lawrence, while talented, was blessed by being dropped into about as good a situation as a college QB could have been. I'm pretty sure almost any QB with any talent could have enjoyed success on that Clemson team and even still at the end of the day they lost the big game. Is Mills as good as Lawrence? Eye test says no and stats say yes so time will tell but yeah even if it was Lawrence I would most likely feel the same. Of course I also wouldn't have Lawrence any where close to the field his rookie year but thats me.
They need cap relief? Will they need cap relief by 2023?

My eye test isn't telling me so far that Lawrence is any better than Mills. Both of them look like rookies. Although I thought Mills played very well yesterday for any QB especially a rookie.
 

vtech9

Veteran
I wasn't able to watch the game as it wasn't televised in my area. However, just looking at the stats it appears that Mills did a good job with what little support he has: 33 of 49 (67%) for 331 yards and 1 TD with 0 int's. Those are decent numbers for any QB. What disturbs me is that we ask him to throw the ball 49 times behind an atrocious OL and support that with a running game of 63 yards on 25 carries (2.5 ypc).
It's impossible to judge Davis Mills ability with this terrible offensive scheme and play of his supporting cast.
If you care to watch, you can always go to NFL-video.com, and watch the game.
 
They need cap relief? Will they need cap relief by 2023?

My eye test isn't telling me so far that Lawrence is any better than Mills. Both of them look like rookies. Although I thought Mills played very well yesterday for any QB especially a rookie.
Cap relief is always needed in one form or another and there is still the question of if Watson will be on the books at that time in which case case between him and Tunsil 68 million will be tied up in 2 players so yeah they might just need some cap relief. Of course this is all theory craft.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame

I didn't realize you were talking about moving him in 2023.

He won't have the largest contract for a LT by the 2023 off-season.

I don't care where a QB is drafted, protecting him so he can develop properly isn't a luxury. Would you feel the same way if Lawrence was the Texans starting QB? Because so far Mills has played better than Lawrence.
Lawrence is 2-11.
Mills is 0-fer.

You're just a spinning yarn that never stops. :)
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
A couple of throws to Cooks like the PI on Cooks throw and the throw that Cooks was down at the 1 on were great throws.
On that “PI” there was a free rusher bearing down on Mills. He had to throw it early, but I think he put extra air under it to drop it right where Cooks was supposed to be.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I agree that Kelly is in over his head, he was from day 1, but everyone saying he should be replaced by Pep I'm not sure what Pep has shown to prove he would be better? I mean he's only been OC one time and that was with Luck as his QB. Other than that he has bounced around pretty much every year even taking a HC job for the XFL. I'm not saying he wouldn't be good at it but why do people keep bringing his name up? Is it just because he's there or have I missed something?
You didn't miss anything. I've made the same comments. As an NFL OC, Kelly has just as much experience as Pep. I am surprised that the Texans don't have an experienced assistant HC/Offense that Culley is familiar with to mentor and assist Kelly and provide self evaluation and feedback.

For example. Joe Brady gets fired. However, when Bridgewater left the Panthers. He mentioned that they didn't practice red zone plays or their two minute drills until their Saturday walkthroughs. I bring that up to make the point that sometimes, these coaches and teams are not doing some of the basic things that you would expect from an NFL team. The timing and spacing is so critical in the red zone, you would think it would be heavily emphasized during the week. Go figure.

https://www.nfl.com/news/teddy-bridgewater-finds-fault-with-how-joe-brady-panthers-practiced

"As an organization there's things you can do better," Bridgewater said. "I'll just say this, for Joe Brady's growth, that organization, they'll have to practice different things in different ways. One thing we didn't do much of when I was there, we didn't practice two minutes, really. We didn't practice red zone. You walk through the red zone stuff and then Saturday, you come out and practice red zone, but you'd only get like 15 live reps. Guys' reps would be limited."
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
However, when Bridgewater left the Panthers. He mentioned that they didn't practice red zone plays or their two minute drills until their Saturday walkthroughs.
I think that’s common. EDIT… sorry, just re-read Bridgewater’s quote & it says more what you were pointing out than what I was thinking
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Cap relief is always needed in one form or another and there is still the question of if Watson will be on the books at that time in which case case between him and Tunsil 68 million will be tied up in 2 players so yeah they might just need some cap relief. Of course this is all theory craft.
If your intentions are to win as many games as possible next year then this post is true.

I don't think that's going to be the case.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
From the Injury Thread:https://www.texanstalk.com/threads/injury-thread.110817/page-69#post-3208876

The team now is reporting that he is not ready to play, not because of his injury, but because of his loss off stength and conditioning.
Doc, this was a thumb not a ACL or achilles. In your professional opinion, should he not been able to keep up his conditioning through this? I ain't no doctor, but pretty sure I could exercise and do cardio and not sit on the couch eating cheetos if I was paid his salary
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Doc, this was a thumb not a ACL or achilles. In your professional opinion, should he not been able to keep up his conditioning through this? I ain't no doctor, but pretty sure I could exercise and do cardio and not sit on the couch eating cheetos if I was paid his salary
I answered the question that was asked...............taking for granted that those not doctors would suspect that something
1639446969637.png
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
But not 76 and TK.

That respect is all that really matters.
You're really spinning.
Go back and read all the things I said about Mills since day one.
I said he's a good prospect for a third round pick.
But I'm tired of even the level success of Matt Schaub.
You, yourself, don't want to take a QB in 2022.
I haven't decided on that quite yet, but I'm inclined that way, too.
Nothing wrong in looking for a Pat Mahomes.
I pimped for Wilson.
Yeah, what's wrong with wanting the best possible at QB?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
But not 76 and TK.

That respect is all that really matters.
Even after Keenum took the Vikings to the Conference Championship, you still gave him no respect and you want me to give Mills respect?

Let me remind you that Keenum threw for 350 yards and for 3 TDs / 0 Int against the Colts with the 9th ranked D in 2013.
He also threw for 3 TD / 0 Int against the 7th ranked D Cardinals.
He went toe to toe with Brady, throwing for a yard more while also recorded a first down and a TD on the ground.
He kept all the games close, except for the one in which he injured his thumb.
Right, that guy who you never gave any credit to.
And you're asking me to give Mills respect?

Double standard to the utmost
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Even after Keenum took the Vikings to the Conference Championship, you still gave him no respect and you want me to give Mills respect?

Let me remind you that Keenum threw for 350 yards and for 3 TDs / 0 Int against the Colts with the 9th ranked D in 2013.
He also threw for 3 TD / 0 Int against the 7th ranked D Cardinals.
He went toe to toe with Brady, throwing for a yard more while also recorded a first down and a TD on the ground.
He kept all the games close, except for the one in which he injured his thumb.
Right, that guy who you never gave any credit to.
And you're asking me to give Mills respect?

Double standard to the utmost
Trust it to you to turn this into yet another Keenum thread. You're as bad as he is with RS
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Trust it to you to turn this into yet another Keenum thread. You're as bad as he is with RS
I didn't draft Derrick and whoever did is atleast partly responsible for the current state of the franchise.

Uncomfortable truth

BTW, I like Keenum and I'm glad he was able to come off of a deer stand and make millions. But I'm still trying to figure out what Keenum has to do with Mills? Mills has looked much better in his 1st few starts than Keenum did and Keenum had a much better team around him. I say this because if Mills improves as much as Keenum has then Caserio might be onto something.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
BTW, I like Keenum and I'm glad he was able to come off of a deer stand and make millions. But I'm still trying to figure out what Keenum has to do with Mills? Mills has looked much better in his 1st few starts than Keenum did and Keenum had a much better team around him. I say this because if Mills improves as much as Keenum has then Caserio might be onto something.
LMAO.
See, this is why you can't be taken seriously.
One minute, you were adamant that any 2-14 is a bad team, no matter if was the team that Kubiak inherited or the team that OB inherited.
But now you're saying that Keenum was on a MUCH better team.
Talking out of both sides of your mouth much? :spit:
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Even after Keenum took the Vikings to the Conference Championship, you still gave him no respect and you want me to give Mills respect?

Let me remind you that Keenum threw for 350 yards and for 3 TDs / 0 Int against the Colts with the 9th ranked D in 2013.
He also threw for 3 TD / 0 Int against the 7th ranked D Cardinals.
He went toe to toe with Brady, throwing for a yard more while also recorded a first down and a TD on the ground.
He kept all the games close, except for the one in which he injured his thumb.
Right, that guy who you never gave any credit to.
And you're asking me to give Mills respect?

Double standard to the utmost
I've always respected and liked Keenum. I never thought he was a top tier QB, but I thought he was better than many on this MB thought he was. So either you've got me confused with another poster, or you don't know what you're talking about. Frankly neither one surprises me.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Mills has looked much better in his 1st few starts than Keenum did and Keenum had a much better team around him. I say this because if Mills improves as much as Keenum has then Caserio might be onto something.
Mills has looked better?
Even with a ton of stats in garbage time with opponents trotting out their back ups, Mills stats are still below what Keenum had, except for the passing percentage due to the dink and dunk philosophy (that they nicely termed "taking what the defense gives you" leading to few scores).

Keenum had more yards in fewer attempts, more TDs and fewer INTs.
He was more efficient on the ground, converting third downs (6 as compared to 4 for Mills) and even scoring a TD (none for Mills).

And all of Keenum's stats came the hard way, with none of that garbage stuff.

By just saying that Mills has looked better without regard to anything that actually happened on the field shows how much you "like and respect" Keenum; not to mention the deer stand reference.
 
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vtech9

Veteran
LMAO.
See, this is why you can't be taken seriously.
One minute, you were adamant that any 2-14 is a bad team, no matter if was the team that Kubiak inherited or the team that OB inherited.
But now you're saying that Keenum was on a MUCH better team.
Talking out of both sides of your mouth much? :spit:
c'mon now...You can't be serious. Are you trying to say that this current 2 win team has as much talent as that 2-14 team? That 2-14 team had far better talent than what we have now.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
c'mon now...You can't be serious. Are you trying to say that this current 2 win team has as much talent as that 2-14 team? That 2-14 team had far better talent than what we have now.
But that was what Steelbtexan said.
He even emphasized that only the wins matter.
He also claimed that Watson was a mediocre QB at best, as he was only able to win 4 games last year.
 

vtech9

Veteran
But that was what Steelbtexan said.
He even emphasized that only the wins matter.
He also claimed that Watson was a mediocre QB at best, as he was only able to win 4 games last year.
ANY 2-14 team is a bad team, for one reason or another. That 2013 team was a bad team because of injuries, bad breaks, and coaching. Schaub had a bad year, but it also was an overall good team. This year, we just have completely bad team.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Mills has looked better?
Even with a ton of stats in garbage time with opponents trotting out their back ups, Mills stats are still below what Keenum had, except for the passing percentage due to the dink and dunk philosophy (that they nicely termed "taking what the defense gives you" leading to few scores).

Keenum had more yards in fewer attempts, more TDs and fewer INTs.
He was more efficient on the ground, converting third downs (6 as compared to 4 for Mills) and even scoring a TD (none for Mills).

And all of Keenum's stats came the hard way, with none of that garbage stuff.

By just saying that Mills has looked better without regard to anything that actually happened on the field shows how much you "like and respect" Keenum; not to mention the deer stand reference.
Keenum wasn't a rookie playing for an OB disciple. Keenum had 23 more yards ( only .5 ypa ) and 1 more TD with only 2 fewer int's. BTW, Keenum had AJ for all of his starts and Ben Tate for 6 of them.

Keenums main problem was running backwards for 30 yds to get sacked
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
ANY 2-14 team is a bad team, for one reason or another. That 2013 team was a bad team because of injuries, bad breaks, and coaching. Schaub had a bad year, but it also was an overall good team. This year, we just have completely bad team.
We know that.
But steelb doesn't; or he simply talks out of both sides of the mouth.
That was why I had to point it out to him.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I thought you aren't a Mills fan.

I stand corrected.
I was not a fan of drafting a QB in the 3rd round at that time given our situation.

I was not a fan of starting him over a QB that gave us a better opportunity to win (I no longer believe Tyrod gives us a better chance to win, that's not to say I believe Mills does).

I've been impressed with Mills from his first start, but if I were preparing him to be a long term QB for this team, I wouldn't have him on the field too much this season.

I do think he's looked better since sitting down for a couple of games.
 


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