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Week 14 vs Seattle

Brisco_County said:
Like I said, Mills was good for two good quarters this game. Progress. I think we get 3.5 good quarters by the final game.
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What’s going to change from Mills perspective that’s going to allow the receivers to get separation?

Someone mentioned there was more zone defense in the 1st Qtr, but since Seattle started playing zone, offense got bottled up.

As far as giving up yards, not many teams worse than the Seahawks.
 
Wow, last I looked it was 19-13....and I don't believe there was a lot of time left.


No idea what happened but Im guessing the Texans made the blooper reel and Seahawks got a lot of feel good footage for their home openers.
 
thunderkyss said:
What’s going to change from Mills perspective that’s going to allow the receivers to get separation?

Someone mentioned there was more zone defense in the 1st Qtr, but since Seattle started playing zone, offense got bottled up.

As far as giving up yards, not many teams worse than the Seahawks.
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When Mills sees the field better and has a better feel for the routes, he'll pull the trigger more as the receiving windows open and close. All rookie QB's go through that phase.
 
Brisco_County said:
This is why I supported Mills in the game thread last week. He has starter ability, he just needs to continue getting reps. We're looking for him to turn single good plays into whole drives, drives into full quarters, quarters into full games. I think we'll only get two good quarters from him this game, but it's progress.
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No. No he doesn’t. His ceiling is that of a solid NFL backup. And there is absolutely nothing bad about getting that return out of a third round investment.

But you all are getting desperate and setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect Davis Mills to be an effective starter at the level of play I assume we all hope the Texans will be at in the next 2-3 years.
 
santo said:
Mills doesn’t have much of an arm for the long throws.
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No, he doesn’t. Which was noted in the scouting reports when he was drafted, and it’s why he won’t be an effective starter in the NFL.

Many on here are just desperate to anoint him as the qb of the future only because Caserio drafted him somewhat early in his first draft as GM.

The qb of the future won’t be here until the 2023 draft. The DE of the future (at least) will be here next year though.
 
KarlK said:
No. No he doesn’t. His ceiling is that of a solid NFL backup. And there is absolutely nothing bad about getting that return out of a third round investment.

But you all are getting desperate and setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect Davis Mills to be an effective starter at the level of play I assume we all hope the Texans will be at in the next 2-3 years.
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We're arriving at different opinions because I don't place much value on his college scouting report. I'm basing my opinion on his throwing mechanics and NFL performance. Based on that, I see very good mechanics, occasionally impressive accuracy, and progress. He had 11 starts in college. He's halfway to that point in the NFL.

I could be wrong, but I've seen enough to be confident in my assessment over what scouts saw in college.
 
Brisco_County said:
We're arriving at different opinions because I don't place much value on his college scouting report. I'm basing my opinion on his throwing mechanics and NFL performance. Based on that, I see very good mechanics, occasionally impressive accuracy, and progress. He had 11 starts in college. He's halfway to that point in the NFL.

I could be wrong, but I've seen enough to be confident in my assessment over what scouts saw in college.
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I like his poise. & the offense came out looking like an NFL offense in the first Qtr.

if he can consistently make good decisions I don’t see him anywhere near his ceiling.

But right now I’m not looking for him to be the starter on a championship level team. I’m just hoping he can be a consistent presence on the office, providing continuity at the most important position on the field until we can find that championship level QB.
 
Brisco_County said:
We're arriving at different opinions because I don't place much value on his college scouting report. I'm basing my opinion on his throwing mechanics and NFL performance. Based on that, I see very good mechanics, occasionally impressive accuracy, and progress. He had 11 starts in college. He's halfway to that point in the NFL.

I could be wrong, but I've seen enough to be confident in my assessment over what scouts saw in college.
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thunderkyss said:
I like his poise. & the offense came out looking like an NFL offense in the first Qtr.

if he can consistently make good decisions I don’t see him anywhere near his ceiling.

But right now I’m not looking for him to be the starter on a championship level team. I’m just hoping he can be a consistent presence on the office, providing continuity at the most important position on the field until we can find that championship level QB.
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I agree. But for those who recorded the game, go back and look at the pass plays. There is a lot wrong with our blocking (we already knew that) but also with our group of receivers not being able to get open on deeper patterns. Whether this in a result of the scheme and patterns; or a lack of talent in route running, Mills hasn't got a lot to work with.
 
Number19 said:
I agree. But for those who recorded the game, go back and look at the pass plays. There is a lot wrong with our blocking (we already knew that) but also with our group of receivers not being able to get open on deeper patterns. Whether this in a result of the scheme and patterns; or a lack of talent in route running, Mills hasn't got a lot to work with.
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Everything you posted has been a constant criticism of this BOB/TK offense. Nothing is easy. Receivers are not schemed open like many of the better offenses. As a result, it's about WRs constantly having to win their one on one battles. That's why a guy like Hopkins was able to thrive in this offense and why you see Cooks to a lesser degree doing the same.

That's why I never understood posters complaining about a WR1 getting too many targets in this offense. Who else are the QBs suppose to throw the ball to when the game plan, scheme and route running by other WRs are giving the QB inconsistent options?
 
Number19 said:
Whether this in a result of the scheme and patterns; or a lack of talent in route running, Mills hasn't got a lot to work with.
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Doesn't matter.

If we're talking about Mills, it's about what he does when there's nothing there. Buy time, make a play, or throw it away. Don't stare down a covered receiver & throw the ball to him anyway.
 
Earl34 said:
That's why I never understood posters complaining about a WR1 getting too many targets in this offense. Who else are the QBs suppose to throw the ball to when the game plan, scheme and route running by other WRs are giving the QB inconsistent options?
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I'd like to see today's breakdown. Mills seem to be distributing very well
 
thunderkyss said:
Doesn't matter.

If we're talking about Mills, it's about what he does when there's nothing there. Buy time, make a play, or throw it away. Don't stare down a covered receiver & throw the ball to him anyway.
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He didn't throw an INT. Now, the throws he forced, had he simply thrown them away, the result would have been the same.
 
Brisco_County said:
We're arriving at different opinions because I don't place much value on his college scouting report. I'm basing my opinion on his throwing mechanics and NFL performance. Based on that, I see very good mechanics, occasionally impressive accuracy, and progress. He had 11 starts in college. He's halfway to that point in the NFL.

I could be wrong, but I've seen enough to be confident in my assessment over what scouts saw in college.
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I'd encourage you to have much higher standards for what you are looking for in the Texans qb of the future.
 
Number19 said:
I agree. But for those who recorded the game, go back and look at the pass plays. There is a lot wrong with our blocking (we already knew that) but also with our group of receivers not being able to get open on deeper patterns. Whether this in a result of the scheme and patterns; or a lack of talent in route running, Mills hasn't got a lot to work with.
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I wasn't able to watch the game as it wasn't televised in my area. However, just looking at the stats it appears that Mills did a good job with what little support he has: 33 of 49 (67%) for 331 yards and 1 TD with 0 int's. Those are decent numbers for any QB. What disturbs me is that we ask him to throw the ball 49 times behind an atrocious OL and support that with a running game of 63 yards on 25 carries (2.5 ypc).
It's impossible to judge Davis Mills ability with this terrible offensive scheme and play of his supporting cast.
 
Toro Bravo said:
I wasn't able to watch the game as it wasn't televised in my area. However, just looking at the stats it appears that Mills did a good job with what little support he has: 33 of 49 (67%) for 331 yards and 1 TD with 0 int's. Those are decent numbers for any QB. What disturbs me is that we ask him to throw the ball 49 times behind an atrocious OL and support that with a running game of 63 yards on 25 carries (2.5 ypc).
It's impossible to judge Davis Mills ability with this terrible offensive scheme and play of his supporting cast.
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Most of those 33 completions were less than 5 yards, with runs after the catch of 10 to 15 yards. They threw a lot of screens today. Looking at the 2nd half, there just wasn't anything open deep. Also, the Seahawks blitzed a lot and Mills did a good job throwing short just before getting hit. I think he was sacked twice.
 
Toro Bravo said:
I wasn't able to watch the game as it wasn't televised in my area. However, just looking at the stats it appears that Mills did a good job with what little support he has: 33 of 49 (67%) for 331 yards and 1 TD with 0 int's. Those are decent numbers for any QB. What disturbs me is that we ask him to throw the ball 49 times behind an atrocious OL and support that with a running game of 63 yards on 25 carries (2.5 ypc).
It's impossible to judge Davis Mills ability with this terrible offensive scheme and play of his supporting cast.
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I didn't get to watch game either, but my guess is 95% of Mills pass completions were < 10 yds.

Update: Actually 10 of 33 comp were > 10 yds. However, I do not know how YAC contributed to those > 10-yard completions.
 
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Number19 said:
Most of those 33 completions were less than 5 yards, with runs after the catch of 10 to 15 yards. They threw a lot of screens today. Looking at the 2nd half, there just wasn't anything open deep. Also, the Seahawks blitzed a lot and Mills did a good job throwing short just before getting hit. I think he was sacked twice.
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There were a few screens, but most of what you're talking about were check downs. He looked deep, nothing there, checked it down, like he should.
 
thunderkyss said:
Or they could have been intercepted against better teams.

I'm not saying he's garbage, just pointing out where he needs to get better.
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But he's played against some pretty good teams and except for Buffalo (4) and the Colts (2) he hasn't been throwing INT's, only 8 for the year so far in 9 games. All QB's will have an occasional bad game. I would say Mills, so far, has been exceptional in this area of his development.
 
Texian said:
I didn't get to watch game either, but my guess is 95% of Mills pass completions were < 10 yds.

Update: Actually 10 of 33 comp were > 10 yds. However, I do not know how YAC contributed to those > 10-yard completions.
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So you admit your guess was off on completions < 10 yards but moved the sticks to YAC……. whatever floats your boat.

He’s not a franchise QB but he is the franchises best option @ QB. Know that’s a frustrating concept to grasp after Watson but sometimes reality sucks.

Think Caserio will use another pick on QB in the upcoming draft as well and he should. If that QB beats out Mills so be it and the franchise better off for it. It’s a slow, sometimes painful process to get one and lose one all in the same year. If Caserio selected one in first or second round at least we have a back-up just in case next time.
 
Number19 said:
But he's played against some pretty good teams and except for Buffalo (4) and the Colts (2) he hasn't been throwing INT's, only 8 for the year so far in 9 games. All QB's will have an occasional bad game. I would say Mills, so far, has been exceptional in this area of his development.
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Reality

Especially for a rookie.
 
beerlover said:
So you admit your guess was off on completions < 10 yards but moved the sticks to YAC……. whatever floats your boat.

He’s not a franchise QB but he is the franchises best option @ QB. Know that’s a frustrating concept to grasp after Watson but sometimes reality sucks.

Think Caserio will use another pick on QB in the upcoming draft as well and he should. If that QB beats out Mills so be it and the franchise better off for it. It’s a slow, sometimes painful process to get one and lose one all in the same year. If Caserio selected one in first or second round at least we have a back-up just in case next time.
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I'd be all in for a quarterback if the class was at least good at the top. But top to bottom, '22 is not a good draft to need a quarterback. Hopefully '23 will be better.

Mills and some veteran journeyman is what I expect again next year. And as we enter a new era of musical chairs at the quarterback position for our little local football team, the Texans have the highest paid left tackle in the game.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Kelly just didn't make any adjustments in the second half.
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I was just fixing to comment on this…
I saw exactly TWO plays of this game. One being the Lockett long TD and then the 61 yd FG. I thought, “hey these guys may come out in the second half and give these guys a game.”

well, that thought didn’t go over well. Out scored 17-0 in the second half.
Wth is it with this team and coaching staff? Crap fest!
 
banned1976 said:
I'd be all in for a quarterback if the class was at least good at the top. But top to bottom, '22 is not a good draft to need a quarterback. Hopefully '23 will be better.

Mills and some veteran journeyman is what I expect again next year. And as we enter a new era of musical chairs at the quarterback position for our little local football team, the Texans have the highest paid left tackle in the game.
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Agreed with the 1st paragraph.

This is why I want to see Mills in 2022.

He looked good to me today. If the highest paid LT was playing he may have looked even better. What does Tunsil have to do with anything?
 
beerlover said:
So you admit your guess was off on completions < 10 yards but moved the sticks to YAC……. whatever floats your boat.
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If the pass was initially caught for a 5 yd gain and the WR turned it into an 18-yard gain, the play called was for a pass < 10 yds. This is not rocket science.

Also, the better informed would know this is more of judgement on Tim Kelly and not so much on Davis. The dink and dunk stats can be misleading. The Kool Aid Brigade of course see them as ready for the Pro Bowl numbers.
 
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Number19 said:
But he's played against some pretty good teams and except for Buffalo (4) and the Colts (2) he hasn't been throwing INT's, only 8 for the year so far in 9 games. All QB's will have an occasional bad game. I would say Mills, so far, has been exceptional in this area of his development.
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So you're saying he's ready to take a team to the Super Bowl? 1st team All-Pro?

I'm saying he needs to improve his decision making when things aren't going his way.
 
Earl34 said:
Everything you posted has been a constant criticism of this BOB/TK offense. Nothing is easy. Receivers are not schemed open like many of the better offenses. As a result, it's about WRs constantly having to win their one on one battles. That's why a guy like Hopkins was able to thrive in this offense and why you see Cooks to a lesser degree doing the same.

That's why I never understood posters complaining about a WR1 getting too many targets in this offense. Who else are the QBs suppose to throw the ball to when the game plan, scheme and route running by other WRs are giving the QB inconsistent options?
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The biggest two issues with WR1 getting all the targets is A: other teams know exactly who will be thrown to s they plan around that and B: should WR1 go down or can’t get open the QB loses their security blanket and has to try and make something happen. That’s fine if you have a franchise QB but if it’s anything less they are screwed.

I agree with you that on this offense there aren’t many options to begin with but turning that lemon in lemonade it’s also gives a QB like Mills a chance to develop the habit of spreading the ball around and not having a security blanket like the last 10 years of QBs had with Hopkins.

That said I would prefer we still had the security blanket but spilled milk and all that.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed with the 1st paragraph.

This is why I want to see Mills in 2022.

He looked good to me today. If the highest paid LT was playing he may have looked even better. What does Tunsil have to do with anything?
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It’s the same argument of we have Ferrari garage holding a Honda. Mills ay have looked better but not better enough to still justify Tunsil current price tag or his soon to be future one and I’m not seeing any QB in 22 to justify it either. I agree good to have a solid Oline before drafting a franchise QB but both are to far away for Tunsil to realistically be apart of that. Better to get value now and look for the next LT in the draft.
 
maverick512000 said:
It’s the same argument of we have Ferrari garage holding a Honda. Mills ay have looked better but not better enough to still justify Tunsil current price tag or his soon to be future one and I’m not seeing any QB in 22 to justify it either. I agree good to have a solid Oline before drafting a franchise QB but both are to far away for Tunsil to realistically be apart of that. Better to get value now and look for the next LT in the draft.
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I'm thinking I want the best OL possible that I can get on the team. (They've got the cap space) Tunsil is an all pro. With this said, if they had to beg Tunsil to practice when he was healthy, Caserio needs to trade him. Get on board or get out.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you're saying he's ready to take a team to the Super Bowl? 1st team All-Pro?

I'm saying he needs to improve his decision making when things aren't going his way.
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Yes I think he’s ready to take a team to the Super Bowl. He has shown good enough decision making and fast enough reactions to handle any unexpected events. I’m not sure what team he would take but it shouldn’t take him long to get the last couple of things needed, a little studying and a quick test and he could drive any team bus though most choose to fly so that might take longer but he could get there. :kitten:

Now if you mean as a QB no that I’m not seeing in his near or far future unless it’s a Nick Foles type deal where the rest of team is just that good.
 
thunderkyss said:
So you're saying he's ready to take a team to the Super Bowl? 1st team All-Pro?

I'm saying he needs to improve his decision making when things aren't going his way.
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Do you think he's played well compared to other rookie QB's?

Do you think he played well today?
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm thinking I want the best OL possible that I can get on the team. (They've got the cap space) Tunsil is an all pro. With this said, if they had to beg Tunsil to practice when he was healthy, Caserio needs to trade him. Get on board or get out.
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Yeah but say they could fill 2 holes on the line for the price of Tunsil. Simple math says that’s the better deal. As things stand when Tunsil is on the field it doesn’t matter hw good he plays because the rest of the line is a paper wall. So Mills doesn’t have to watch out for a blind hit, awesome that just means he gets to watch the other 5 guys charging a him.
 
maverick512000 said:
Yeah but say they could fill 2 holes on the line for the price of Tunsil. Simple math says that’s the better deal. As things stand when Tunsil is on the field it doesn’t matter hw good he plays because the rest of the line is a paper wall. So Mills doesn’t have to watch out for a blind hit, awesome that just means he gets to watch the other 5 guys charging a him.
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Depends on who they add and I would rather have the surer thing than the hope we get a couple of guys method. Give me a sure thing and I will hope I can draft a couple of IOL. Then the OL would be solid for yrs to come and this is very doable.
 
steelbtexan said:
Depends on who they add and I would rather have the surer thing than the hope we get a couple of guys method. Give me a sure thing and I will hope I can draft a couple of IOL. Then the OL would be solid for yrs to come and this is very doable.
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You’re not looking at this realistically. Ok Tunsil’s contract runs at least through 22 with an out. If it’s not invoked then he is on the roster through 23 then he’s an FA. Let’s take best case scenario and say Mills is a franchise QB. You are looking at 2023 at the earliest before he is really ready. Both sides of the ball need major work and a major shot of talent so say you go heavy O one draft and heavy D the next or even split it 50/50 both drafts. That still means that in 23 when Mills is ready and Tunsil is on his last year you have a team made up of just drafted rookies or one year players with maybe a few signed vets thrown in. All this is assuming Caserio Baths a 1000 in the draft and Mills is more than just a 3rd round QB.

The more likely scenario is we draft in 22 a QB that is best in class of a weak QB class and in any other draft would be a late 1st or early 2nd. Because of that there is no chance they are ready in 22 and all you hope is they don’t get killed. Better option is to let them sit a year and bring in another Taylor or RG3 or whatever band aid vet b who is just there to teach the rookie. Then MAYBE in 23 the rookie is ready to start but not ready to lead the team yet.

So at he end of 23 which of these would you do? Let Tunsil walk and truly have gotten nothing out of a trade that in hindsight was a bad trade or sign him to another mega deal breaking his own record for LT pay rate? Tunsil maybe an all pro but he’s not worth 80 million or 100 million or even another 66 million for another 3 years. That’s just to much tied into a non-QB position, even LT, for a team in a rebuild.

Better to trade him now while he still has good value to a team making a championship run.
 
maverick512000 said:
You’re not looking at this realistically. Ok Tunsil’s contract runs at least through 22 with an out. If it’s not invoked then he is on the roster through 23 then he’s an FA. Let’s take best case scenario and say Mills is a franchise QB. You are looking at 2023 at the earliest before he is really ready. Both sides of the ball need major work and a major shot of talent so say you go heavy O one draft and heavy D the next or even split it 50/50 both drafts. That still means that in 23 when Mills is ready and Tunsil is on his last year you have a team made up of just drafted rookies or one year players with maybe a few signed vets thrown in. All this is assuming Caserio Baths a 1000 in the draft and Mills is more than just a 3rd round QB.

The more likely scenario is we draft in 22 a QB that is best in class of a weak QB class and in any other draft would be a late 1st or early 2nd. Because of that there is no chance they are ready in 22 and all you hope is they don’t get killed. Better option is to let them sit a year and bring in another Taylor or RG3 or whatever band aid vet b who is just there to teach the rookie. Then MAYBE in 23 the rookie is ready to start but not ready to lead the team yet.

So at he end of 23 which of these would you do? Let Tunsil walk and truly have gotten nothing out of a trade that in hindsight was a bad trade or sign him to another mega deal breaking his own record for LT pay rate? Tunsil maybe an all pro but he’s not worth 80 million or 100 million or even another 66 million for another 3 years. That’s just to much tied into a non-QB position, even LT, for a team in a rebuild.

Better to trade him now while he still has good value to a team making a championship run.
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His contract runs through 2023 I believe. After that depending on his play. I would either sign him to an extension. Tag him, or tag and trade him.

Really after I heard that last yr they had trouble getting him to practice and this yr he's obviously milking an injury, if I could get a 1st and maybe another say 3rd rd pick or a player for Tunsil, I would trade him.
 
steelbtexan said:
Really after I heard that last yr they had trouble getting him to practice and this yr he's obviously milking an injury, if I could get a 1st and maybe another say 3rd rd pick or a player for Tunsil, I would trade him.
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I would trade him for a 1st in the 10-20 range and a 2nd next year and then trade down from #3 to another pick in the 10-20 range and a 1st and a second next year
 
steelbtexan said:
His contract runs through 2023 I believe. After that depending on his play. I would either sign him to an extension. Tag him, or tag and trade him.

Really after I heard that last yr they had trouble getting him to practice and this yr he's obviously milking an injury, if I could get a 1st and maybe another say 3rd rd pick or a player for Tunsil, I would trade him.
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It does but there is an out after 22. Not sure if he can use it, Texans can use it or either can use it and don’t care enough to dig it up. Either way 23 is when his biggest cap hit comes and that’s actually when it could hurt the most.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm going to also put this in the other thread,

The biggest mistake Mills made today was running out of bounds. The rest of the game I thought he played well.
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He had a really good first half. After half time adjustments, he completed only 6 of 16 passes, the game got out of hand and he was hitting Royce Freeman (7-51 yds) and TEs on checkdowns against the prevent in garbage time.
 
JB said:
I would trade him for a 1st in the 10-20 range and a 2nd next year and then trade down from #3 to another pick in the 10-20 range and a 1st and a second next year
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Seems like a great plan for a rebuilding team to me.

If you had 2 picks in the 10-20 range who would you be looking at picking? Say 10 and 15?

I would go with Penning at 10 and Linderbaum at 15. Plus Kinnard at 34.
 
maverick512000 said:
It does but there is an out after 22. Not sure if he can use it, Texans can use it or either can use it and don’t care enough to dig it up. Either way 23 is when his biggest cap hit comes and that’s actually when it could hurt the most.
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The cap hit isn't why I would trade him. There will be plenty of cap space available in 2023.

The culture is what I'm trying to change.
 
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