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Weakest Position?
- Thread starter TexansSeminole
- Start date
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansSeminole said:
List of safeties more talented then david carr
CC Brown
Glenn Earl
List of linebackers more talented then carr
Morlon Greenwood
Wali Rainer
Demeco Ryans
Sam Cowart
Kenneth Pettway
List of people who are better than Carr on our roster
EVERYONE.
He is not the solution, he is the problem.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
That's fine that you beleive that, but like the NFL Live crew you will be changing your tune by the end of the season.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansSeminole said:
No sir. I've been singing this little ditty for years now, and i've been getting the old chicago cubs refrain...
just WAIT till next year.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
NATHANHALE said:The problem only arises when Carrcome 'out of the wood work' to defend their 'boy done wrong' and simply do not respect another persons opinion on Carr if it does not agree with theirs.
Ummm, no. The problem arises when anyone from either extreme feels the need to interject another in a countless number of posts characterizing the majority of the MB, claiming martydom, characterizing anyone who believes differently as a homer or any similar all or nothing description of the topic of Carr.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
Ok.
TwinSisters
Veteran
HOU-TEX said:My daughter thinks he's hot. Does that count?
Yes it does. I think it has a lot to do with why he is the face of the franchise. How many NFL players have jersey's for sale that come in both regular and PINK!
He's the only one I have ever seen marketed that way. If Dave was as ugly as say Jeff George, he would have gotten the boot this year.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
infantrycak said:
...a challenge--next time there is one of 'those' Carr threads, count the Carr posts vs the non-Carr posts--think you will find it titled a little one way. Also, see who brings up Carr first.
...back when it was Young vs Bush threads, a similar thing happened. After it was said the Texans were passing on Young, their threads/posts virtually stopped--not so the Bush folks as they raged on weeks after the draft was over...as TC said about the Chronicle, they get 20-1 emails wanting info about Young. My point is that some folks don't feel the need to to 'rant' their opinions while others do...
U4ikrob
Guitar Junky
swtbound07 said:
Wow players that are injured and havent even played a down for the NFL or this team yet are some how more talented?? :boggle:
While I dont consider myself a Carr
I would say there is more to recognize on the positive and negative sides to Carr's performance with this team so far. I'll just go on record as saying I disagree with yoru above PoV and leave it at that on your post. For me - the Bottom line is - We can debate things till the end - But the results will come out on Carr in one form or another after this year. There are no more excuses for anyone to make including David. I for one think Carr will stand up to the scrutiny and produce this year like the player he should be had he been given a modest chance to succeed.
The question that comes to my mind after all of these many Carr comparison threads is
What will it take for folks to say he did allright? or He's worth being the QB of this team again? Will 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins do it or will he have to lead us to the playoffs with a completely new cast in order to get any respect from fans who think he was not worth the extension?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
NATHANHALE said:
OK--I'll try reading the MB a little more closely than I usually do. JMO but the MB is about evenly split with whiners on both sides.
TwinSisters
Veteran
HOU-TEX said:Hmmm, so looks alone can get you somewhere. Well....I'm screwed!
I'm not sure there's been an uglier QB than Jim Plunkett, has there? (Can ya tell I'm trying to veer away from the Texan QB talk)
That's alright, I will lead you right back. There ain't nothing wrong with talking about the Texans' QB.
I will say that Plunkett was one ugly boy too. But I will also add that looks alone don't drive your success forever in the NFL as a QB.
However it helps.
Example:
Joe Namath. After he got hurt there was no reason he should have been starting for the later part of his career. Looks have a little bit to do with that.
Dan Pastorini. Man, he was a miserable QB for his first 4 seasons until Gillman came along. If he was as ugly as Plunkett, they would have booted him.
Both Plunkett and Pastorini came into the league at about the same time. Both were miserable and got hurt. Both started as rookies.
Ugly boy Plunkett was shipped off as a failure and a bust after his 4th year.
Ladies' Man Pastorini just needed a better coach, better offensive line, and a new system.
Sound familiar?
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
U4ikrob said:Wow players that are injured and havent even played a down for the NFL or this team yet are some how more talented?? :boggle:
While I dont consider myself a Carr
For me - the Bottom line is - We can debate things till the end - But the results will come out on Carr in one form or another after this year. There are no more excuses for anyone to make including David. I for one think Carr will stand up to the scrutiny and produce this year like the player he should be had he been given a modest chance to succeed.
The question that comes to my mind after all of these many Carr comparison threads is
What will it take for folks to say he did allright? or He's worth being the QB of this team again? Will 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins do it or will he have to lead us to the playoffs with a completely new cast in order to get any respect from fans who think he was not worth the extension?
Absolutely nothing. To me the jury is already rendered its verdict. I'd honestly rather have kyle boller. He could go 3,000 yards and 30 tds and it wouldn't make a difference. He didn't deserve a year 5, and certainly is getting paid more than performance.
Vambo, the Marble Eye
Waterboy
Runner said:
Is there something "statistical" that even slightly backs up this thinking that the SS or FS position is a big problem? (I mean, we lead the league in +45 yd completions against our defense or something.)
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
Every single player in the NFL is getting paid more than there performance. What you dont understand is that its a business.
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
I think considering his old coaches, if he can do 3,000 yards and 30 TDs and the team does well, he has redeemed himself.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansSeminole said:
Really? I missed that crucial concept? What you don't understand is that if it was a business decision they would have cut him a long time ago. Our owner seems to like carr, but nothing he has done on the field should have given them any reason to offer him that exception. Within the realms of NFL salary, he is overpaid....im not talking base level economics.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
ledzeppelin269 said:
He didn't deserve the chance....so anything he does with it is to me tainted.
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
If someone offered you an extension for a few million would you take the high road and turn it down? Blame the organization. A lot of guys don't deserve the chance they're given...but it's useless to not give them some standard of redemption.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
ledzeppelin269 said:
I do blame the organization for the resign...i don't blame Carr for taking it. Im just saying, Im done with Carr as the QB of the Texans, and don't really think he can change 4 years of sub-mediocrity with one good season. I still couldn't trust him after that...it would take years....years that this franchise just doesn't have.
amen brother! This whole Carr episode is very strange to me. This guy hasn't produced anything in 4 years and is rewarded with a new long term contract. WOW! And that's only the begin, and than some of the Texan' MB journalist try to workup justification for this awful decision. Amazing!
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
What if he went to the Pro Bowl a few times and won the SB for us? All I'm saying is there must be some level where he redeems himself.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
HOU-TEX said:Well obviously the whole Texans staff trusts him. Whether you trust him or not is irrelivant. On the other hand you are intitled an opinion if that's what it is.
The last staff that trusted him got fired en-masse recently. Yep..its just my opinion...but very relevant to a message board discussion where all we have is opinions.
U4ikrob
Guitar Junky
TwinSisters said:
Sounds familiar in some parts to DC and the Texans - but you cant stop @ 4 years. If memory serves that Oilers team was really REALLY bad - 4 bad seasons & 3 diff coaches including two 1-13 seasons. Not trying to "Church up" Dan's performance, but he didnt have much to work with on the team at all. He split time alot at QB too including his first year and then later because of injuries. The Oilers kept changing things all the time. He basically had one good receiver in Joiner, then Burroughs and later Johnson. They had an avg defense with a few standouts - Alot of RB by committee approach all while changing schemes and coaching staffs proved not very good for the Dan ' the man'
That stuff sounds real familiar...
But Dan also managed to be in the top 10 in pass attempts and completions twice during those first 5 years and in his 5th year went to the Pro-bowl [his first year with Bum coaching] a few years of mediocre playing until 78 when he took the team to a 10-6 record and the playoffs when they switched to 16 games with Earl going all the way to the Division championship game before losing to Pitt.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
ledzeppelin269 said:
Im saying there is nothing he can do in ONE year to redeem the four bad ones...his career as a whole might vindicate it, but a great year this year would only mean he performs well 20 percent of the time.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I'm sayin, you just ruined a perfectly good thread, with your bad arguments, and just bad attitude about your team.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansSeminole said:
I answered the initial question the thread posed, then every subsequent response by me was directly related to a question/comment asked of me or directed to me. Im not flooding the board with Carr talk, but wherever I feel my opinion is applicable, I will state it. Im sorry if I spoiled your thread viewing experience, or your general state of optimism about your team. I will try not to let it happen again...but remember, for a discussion to happen TWO people (at least) have to participate..Im not out here debating myself.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
Ok.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
swtbound07 said:
So you're blaming the firing of the old staff on DC? Did you go to or watch any games last year? Did you happen to notice what the offense looked like? The coaches got fired due to lack of production in every aspect of the team. Are you saying we should've fired DC instead of the staff?
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
HOU-TEX said:
In short, both of them should be gone. In answer to your question I've watched every game this franchise has ever played multiple times. The Offense looked the way it did because of Carr. You don't have to agree, but thats my assessment. I fear that Carr might actually end up getting Kubiak fired down the line as well...he is just that bad.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
HOU-TEX said:
as·i·nine ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-nn)
adj.
Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.
Kindly explain to me how blaming the performance of an offense on its quarterback (you know, the guy who touches the ball every play and is supposed to be the leader) is utterly stupid, or resembles an ass. You might disagree with me, doesn't make it asinine. I await your retraction and apology.
TexanFan881
All Pro
swtbound07 said:
List of people who obviously have something against Carr
You
Carr has more talent in one finger than some of the players on our team have as a whole.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
swtbound07 said:
I'd say acting like the performance of the O is always fully the responsibility of the QB is pretty silly. Football is the ultimate team sport and giving too much credit or too much blame to the QB is ignoring (willfully in this case to make one of the extreme arguments you so like to make) the realities of the game just as much or moreso than ignoring the faults of the QB among the causes for poor O performance.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
infantrycak said:
Me? Extreme? Never.......Im not the type to go around
now am I cak?
the wonger need food
All Pro
infantrycak said:
But did Carr show any signs of being an NFL QB last season? Even Archie Manning had his moments where he willed his team to wins. Carr has been a deer in headlights for 25+ games now.
thetexanator said:
I'm in agreement here...Linbackers and Safeties. One thing I was looking at in Fantasy research was Kris Browns lack of concistancy , as evidenced in a cpl of the losses last year. IMHO, LB's and DB's , OT's and maybe a new kicker are prolly the most needed positions as of yet. I would think looking for a Troy Polamolu type or another DRob would be the Texans #1 pick next draft.
swtbound07 said:
I don't agree with your assessment and obviously Kubiak doesn't either. He must have seen enough in Carr to believe he has what it takes to be a good NFL quarterback and tell McNair to extend his contract. If he didn't believe this, then I think we would be seeing VY, Leinert, or Cutler in a Texans uniform instead of Mario! JMHO!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
the wonger need food said:
I'd say so--few and far between but within the scheme yes. I'd say he showed more in prior seasons (yes with flaws as well). I have stated previously that IMO Capers put a lock on the offense after the 2004 game at Indy. Look at that game and the three prior and the four games after--the contrast is stark: 250.5 ypg vs. 172.25 ypg, 66% passes to WR's other than AJ (so much for not being able to find a 2nd option) vs. 67% of passes to AJ. The 1st 4 games were against tougher passing D's than the 2nd set were. None of that means in any way Carr doesn't need a lot of improvement--only that Capers' molesting the O was a joke, Pendry ever having touched an OL was a joke--Carr was part of the problem not all of the problem. I am not predicting great things for Carr, nor for him to fail (I see very little chance of his play not being greatly improved this year, but there was a long way to go), but IMO we still have little to no idea what he can be with a surrounding cast which can even charitably be called credible--that's sad IMO and falls squarely on Capers/Casserly.
the wonger need food
All Pro
infantrycak said:
Unless we know without a doubt that there is a solid player in the position, it's a weakness.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
the wonger need food said:
That's fine (interesting choice on cutting off the sentence for the quote). I certainly haven't ever identified Carr as a strength. I would phrase it along with many other players as a potential weakness until we see how the team comes together. Listing things for upgrade in the next draft before TC even starts or the season is starts strikes me as assuming failure--I'd rather let the season play out, I already paid for the tickets.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
Insideop said:
IMO, keeping Carr was in no way Kubiak's decision to make, though his hiring dictated his agreement to do so. Kubiak has all the tools to 'try' and turn Carr around and he will make every effort to do so. Saying that, though, I'm sure Kubiak doesn't think he'll go if Carr goes-probally given another 'shot' with a different QB should Carr fail--
It's interesting to note that Kubiak has already made several subtle comments about Carr. In one, he states that Carr is the most improved player on the team BUTTTTTTTT still has a long way to go! He's mentioned several of Carr's habits that 'must' change like-focusing on one receiver, slow getting to the line of scrimmage, not making quick decisions, keeping the ball too long, contributing to sacks, etc. The most 'telling' comment,though, was when he said--how Carr goes, the team goes. So far,Carr has had the 'luxury' of learning and executing everything in slow motion but that will soon change when TC/PS starts. IMO, it won't take Kubiak long to see if Carr 'is the man.'
Even considering 'all' the obstacles Carr has faced, I can not visualize him 'suddenly' doing the things (mentioned above) he has not done before. And, finally--in light that Carr was a pupil of 'QB Guru' Ted Tedford-I was a little shocked that Kubiak had to tell Carr 'tricks' to use to not focus on one receiver---after 4 yrs as a pro!!!!!!!!!
the wonger need food
All Pro
NATHANHALE said:
This statement could not be more true. To cut Carr loose after last season (along with firing Capers and Casserly) would be to admit complete and total failure as a franchise.
