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Uncle Rico said:
I'd totally tank for Lamar Jackson next year. Last year of the Brock Osweiler Experiment, **** the proverbial bed and finally get a franchise QB.
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Do you think that ripping and running Jackson does at Louisville would successfully translate to the NFL?
I'm not convinced after watching QBs with similar college skillsets (VY, Manziel, RGIII, Tebow to name four) not be successful in the NFL.

Do you think that O'Brien is imaginative (or flexible) enough to change his offense to match Jackson's talents?
I'm not convinced of that either.
 
I would like to see us reintegrate the deep pass into the offense. Seems like after the NE game we ditched that element of the offense. I know the way opposing defenses have been playing us has been part of that, but we still should be able to work it into the offense.

I have noticed that BO's play action fake is much improved from the inept execution he had early in the season and the way we are running the ball should set up the play action deep strike.
 
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Texas Jake said:
I would like to see us reintegrate the deep pass into the offense. Seems like after the NE games we ditched that element of the offense. I know the way opposing defenses have been playing us has been part of that, but we still should be able to work that into the offense.

I have noticed that BO's play action fake is much improved from the inept execution he had early in the season and the way we are running the ball should set up the play action deep strike.
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Well, it helps to have your "take the top off the defense" WR out on the field to do that. Fuller was that guy & he's been out the last couple of games. Apart from that, those types of plays take time to develop & our offensive line isn't really giving Brock time to do that especially with Newton out; The jax game this past week showed that. Our 1st 2 games we were long ball heavy & successful with it. then NE showed teams how to take that away. So right now, I think BoB is doing exactly what he should be doing....showing teams that hey, we can win by pounding the rock too. When we win enough games soundly that way, teams will come around & try to stop the run game 7 then we should be able to go back over the top again.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I haven't been on the Savage bandwagon mostly because it doesn't seem like the coaches were all that high on him.....but I have to believe he'd be better that brockweiler.
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Yea, but take a look at the coaches. Not to mention a head coach that runs the ball 90% on 2nd and ten,can't manage the clock( wasted TO's), doesn't have a clue on how to use #13 and #15, doesn't know he could took a knee last three plays to end the game and has Godsey as OC is not a coach I want making decisions. Ask yourself , why has Jonathon Grimes cost a roster spot most of the year?
Terrible run coaching staff!


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mmwest63 said:
Yea, but take a look at the coaches. Not to mention a head coach that runs the ball 90% on 2nd and ten,can't manage the clock( wasted TO's), doesn't have a clue on how to use #13 and #15, doesn't know he could took a knee last three plays to end the game and has Godsey as OC is not a coach I want making decisions. Ask yourself , why has Jonathon Grimes cost a roster spot most of the year?
Terrible run coaching staff!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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You have options
 
Texas Jake said:
I would like to see us reintegrate the deep pass into the offense. Seems like after the NE game we ditched that element of the offense. I know the way opposing defenses have been playing us has been part of that, but we still should be able to work it into the offense.

I have noticed that BO's play action fake is much improved from the inept execution he had early in the season and the way we are running the ball should set up the play action deep strike.
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Agreed, but as Mr teX pointed out, wr personnel has factored into play calling. It hasn't factored into Os criticism on the board however.
 
Mr teX said:
Well, it helps to have your "take the top off the defense" WR out on the field to do that. Fuller was that guy & he's been out the last couple of games. Apart from that, those types of plays take time to develop & our offensive line isn't really giving Brock time to do that especially with Newton out; The jax game this past week showed that. Our 1st 2 games we were long ball heavy & successful with it. then NE showed teams how to take that away. So right now, I think BoB is doing exactly what he should be doing....showing teams that hey, we can win by pounding the rock too. When we win enough games soundly that way, teams will come around & try to stop the run game 7 then we should be able to go back over the top again.
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I agree with most of what you are saying, but I still think we may have moved too far in the conservative direction.

A play action fake and a receiver on a fly route doesn't take that long to develop. Fuller being out took our best deep threat away, but we still have B. Miller who has some speed; we can split out L. Miller, Hunt, or Ervin; or send Anderson deep.
 
ObsiWan said:
I'd say Minnesota.
ESPECIALLY after they lost Bridgewater and AP for the season. I figured we had a good shot at winning that one.

But you have a point. We're on top of our division with a winning record.

And I think O'Brien has recognized the real strength of this team and it is NOT at QB. So he's running the ball. Successfully. Fifth, league-wide in rushing; dead ass last in passing.

If we could just get Allen to stop f'king holding (I counted at least three - including the one that brought back Hunt's stellar gain) we might be even better.

I fear that other teams will see that Osweiler isn't going deep any more - especially with Fuller out - and will put 8 guys in the box.

Then what?
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I'm pretty sure the announcer said they called that hold on Clark. I remember being so ticked off when they said it was Clark and I think they even said it was his 2nd or 3rd holding penalty. Either way I guess it doesn't matter, they both need to be replaced in the off-season!
 
ObsiWan said:
Do you think that ripping and running Jackson does at Louisville would successfully translate to the NFL?
I'm not convinced after watching QBs with similar college skillsets (VY, Manziel, RGIII, Tebow to name four) not be successful in the NFL.

Do you think that O'Brien is imaginative (or flexible) enough to change his offense to match Jackson's talents?
I'm not convinced of that either.
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The only guy that's like this that has had sustained success is Cam Newton. But no one is built like Cam and even as big and strong as he is he feels the effects of getting beat on when he runs.
 
Texas Jake said:
I agree with most of what you are saying, but I still think we may have moved too far in the conservative direction.

A play action fake and a receiver on a fly route doesn't take that long to develop. Fuller being out took our best deep threat away, but we still have B. Miller who has some speed; we can split out L. Miller, Hunt, or Ervin; or send Anderson deep.
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You don't just throw deep to throw deep & it's not just about speed. You've got to have a credible threat for defenses to respect the deep ball threat & right now Fuller & to lesser extents Nuk & Strong are the only guys who command that respect; moreso Fuller b/c of his speed & b/c he's already hit teams with deep ball receptions twice this year. The guys you named aren't credible threats & the only 1 of the 4 that's even close is B. Miller. But he's still learning how to play the WR position.
 
Insideop said:
I'm pretty sure the announcer said they called that hold on Clark. I remember being so ticked off when they said it was Clark and I think they even said it was his 2nd or 3rd holding penalty. Either way I guess it doesn't matter, they both need to be replaced in the off-season!
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The Texans ranked second in fewest penalties (11 Holdings plus 3 False starts).
 
Mr teX said:
You don't just throw deep to throw deep & it's not just about speed. You've got to have a credible threat for defenses to respect the deep ball threat & right now Fuller & to lesser extents Nuk & Strong are the only guys who command that respect; moreso Fuller b/c of his speed & b/c he's already hit teams with deep ball receptions twice this year. The guys you named aren't credible threats & the only 1 of the 4 that's even close is B. Miller. But he's still learning how to play the WR position.
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It ain't about respect, it's about getting behind the defense. If they don't respect the deep threat, it makes it that much easier to get the better of them deep. When they start respecting the deep threat, that's when the underneath opens up. A successful run game should draw the defense to the line and the play fake causes them to start to move up and play the run. If that is the case, the players I have mentioned should have a good chance to get behind their cover guy.
 
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Texas Jake said:
It ain't about respect, it's about getting behind the defense. If they don't respect the deep threat, it makes it that much easier to get the better of them deep. When they start respecting the deep threat, that's when the underneath opens up. A successful run game should draw the defense to the line and the play fake causes them to start to move up and play the run. If that is the case, the players I have mentioned should have a good chance to get behind their cover guy.
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Hunt on a wheel route should be deadly
 
ObsiWan said:
Do you think that ripping and running Jackson does at Louisville would successfully translate to the NFL?
I'm not convinced after watching QBs with similar college skillsets (VY, Manziel, RGIII, Tebow to name four) not be successful in the NFL.

Do you think that O'Brien is imaginative (or flexible) enough to change his offense to match Jackson's talents?
I'm not convinced of that either.
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The only guy that's like this that has had sustained success is Cam Newton. But no one is built like Cam and even as big and strong as he is he feels the effects of getting beat on when he runs.
 
Texas Jake said:
It ain't about respect, it's about getting behind the defense. If they don't respect the deep threat, it makes it that much easier to get the better of them deep. When they start respecting the deep threat, that's when the underneath opens up. A successful run game should draw the defense to the line and the play fake causes them to start to move up and play the run. If that is the case, the players I have mentioned should have a good chance to get behind their cover guy.
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You're crazy....Of course its about respect...Teams don't shade their safeties over the top & alter their defensive schemes for guys like Julio Jones & AJ Green for nothing. They are credible deep threats & you make sure those guys don't beat you over the top b/c they've killed teams pretty consistently over their careers doing just that. What have you seen from any of the guys you named that says DC's are going to do any of that for them? What makes you think that if a ball is thrown deep to any of those guys that they'll be able to win that 50/50 ball battle? I'll answer for you: NOTHING. No teams aren't going to just let them run free by themselves, but they are likely to just let the cb play them straight up with minimal safety help over the top.

jam their asses at the LOS and don't even let them get deep...& that's where the inexperience playing the position of all the guys you named come into play. A vet cb/lb is handling all of those guys with ease.
 
Mr teX said:
You're crazy....Of course its about respect...Teams don't shade their safeties over the top & alter their defensive schemes for guys like Julio Jones & AJ Green for nothing. They are credible deep threats & you make sure those guys don't beat you over the top b/c they've killed teams pretty consistently over their careers doing just that. What have you seen from any of the guys you named that says DC's are going to do any of that for them? What makes you think that if a ball is thrown deep to any of those guys that they'll be able to win that 50/50 ball battle? I'll answer for you: NOTHING. No teams aren't going to just let them run free by themselves, but they are likely to just let the cb play them straight up with minimal safety help over the top.

jam their asses at the LOS and don't even let them get deep...& that's where the inexperience playing the position of all the guys you named come into play. A vet cb/lb is handling all of those guys with ease.
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It ain't about respect, it is about ability, play design and the game plan setting up the play. I have seen plenty of non-elite players get wide open behind coverage against us and other teams. You don't have to be a probowler to get open deep. You do have to have the right play called at the right time and have players execute their assignments.
 
Texas Jake said:
It ain't about respect, it is about ability, play design and the game plan setting up the play. I have seen plenty of non-elite players get wide open behind coverage against us and other teams. You don't have to be a probowler to get open deep. You do have to have the right play called at the right time and have players execute their assignments.
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I'm not saying it couldn't happen...I'm saying it ain't likely to happen with the dudes you're talking about.
 
ObsiWan said:
Do you think that ripping and running Jackson does at Louisville would successfully translate to the NFL?
I'm not convinced after watching QBs with similar college skillsets (VY, Manziel, RGIII, Tebow to name four) not be successful in the NFL.

Do you think that O'Brien is imaginative (or flexible) enough to change his offense to match Jackson's talents?
I'm not convinced of that either.
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People said the saaaaame stuff about Mariota. Have you seen Jackson play? All he does is make plays for his team. Dynamic. In todays NFL you must have a QB that can break away from pressure and improvise. Gone are the days of the statue in the pocket with the canon arm.

And to be honest, I'll take the kid from USC or UCLA and for the cherry I'd hope it would be a new and COMPETENT coaching staff that will finally get this franchise over the hump, it aint Buttchin.
 
Mr teX said:
jam their asses at the LOS and don't even let them get deep...& that's where the inexperience playing the position of all the guys you named come into play. A vet cb/lb is handling all of those guys with ease.
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The bolded is a big problem. Add to that receivers out of position and not in sync w/ Brock because of inexperience (Hop played 97% of snaps vs the Jags, Brax 75% and Mumph 32%) and you've got a recipe for poor qb play. I'm with Texas Jake on wanting to see a more aggressive passing game, but after thinking about our personnel options for the game, I'm not sure what more we could have done. I think we'll have a better sense of where Brock is at once we get some of our receivers back.
 
I would give BO some more time to develop, he kind of reminds me of Terry Bradshaw's start in the NFL but he eventually led the Pittsburgh Steelers to eight AFC Central championships and four Super Bowl titles. And I seem to remember Troy Aikman having a 1-15 season which was the worst in 30 years after Tom Landry, when he started if I'm not mistaken.
 
I am enjoying country life in a small town with a city close by for shopping needs, but I used to live in Houston. I remember it as a great place for getting a piece of tail, but its professional sports teams label it Second Best City. The Texans are unlikely ever to change that image.
 
Mr teX said:
You're crazy....Of course its about respect...Teams don't shade their safeties over the top & alter their defensive schemes for guys like Julio Jones & AJ Green for nothing. They are credible deep threats & you make sure those guys don't beat you over the top b/c they've killed teams pretty consistently over their careers doing just that. What have you seen from any of the guys you named that says DC's are going to do any of that for them? What makes you think that if a ball is thrown deep to any of those guys that they'll be able to win that 50/50 ball battle? I'll answer for you: NOTHING. No teams aren't going to just let them run free by themselves, but they are likely to just let the cb play them straight up with minimal safety help over the top.

jam their asses at the LOS and don't even let them get deep...& that's where the inexperience playing the position of all the guys you named come into play. A vet cb/lb is handling all of those guys with ease.
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Why would I want them double covered and if they were, why would I throw to them. What does having a DC double covering them have to do with their ability to get deep other than the fact that if they demonstrate enough times they are a threat DCs will start doing that. The fact that they aren't only demonstrates they haven't proved to be a threat, yet. I do agree that a more experienced receiver would be a more credible threat and their inexperience makes them more susceptible to being jammed at the line. That doesn't mean with the right play design, it can't be successful if set up properly by the play calling leading up to the play. I would like to see a little more creativity and imagination on offense.
 
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H_Town_Gaucho said:
I would give BO some more time to develop, he kind of reminds me of Terry Bradshaw's start in the NFL but he eventually led the Pittsburgh Steelers to eight AFC Central championships and four Super Bowl titles. And I seem to remember Troy Aikman having a 1-15 season which was the worst in 30 years after Tom Landry, when he started if I'm not mistaken.
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Bradshaw got bigger as the games became more important, but historically he was quite erratic as a passer. Slightly before my time (I only really saw his last couple of years), maybe someone else can give a better first person perspective. He was surrounded by quite literally a hall of fame team on offense and defense. Aikman was probably the most accurate thrower in NFL history. Like Bradshaw, he was surrounded by a hall of fame team when things really started clicking. Most importantly is the two had Chuck Noll and Jimmy Johnson. You forgot to add Peyton Manning's first year ... all 3 being #1 overall picks (they were top-tier prospects who needed time). This is the argument that people used for David Carr ... 'well, Hall of Famers sometimes start slow'.

Brock is in his 5th season. Not a full schedule, but he got his 'rookie' year out of the way last year as a Bronco looking mildly competent in a real offensive system. He's wildly inaccurate and thus far falls apart in big games - bad comparisons. He's surrounded by strong talent, but weak coaching. How long is it going to take him to develop into not the worst quarterback in the league? 8th season? 10th?

Brock is what happens when teams focus on measurables. 6'7"+ quarterback with good athleticism, huge arm and workable mechanics. Not enough between the ears, lacks the 'calm' required inside the pocket and poor accuracy. Give me a healthy Chad Pennington, I don't care if he plays on one leg and cant throw it more than 20 yards - he'll squeeze every ounce from the offense and make great decisions.
 
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Insideop said:
I'm pretty sure the announcer said they called that hold on Clark. I remember being so ticked off when they said it was Clark and I think they even said it was his 2nd or 3rd holding penalty. Either way I guess it doesn't matter, they both need to be replaced in the off-season!
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good catch.
it was Clark
 
Max said:
I'll take any of our backs on a wheel route. I'm sure my memory is failing me but I literally remember seeing only one all year.
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I keep remembering NE killing us with that wheel route. I remember Hunt running the route a few times last season, but he's just not that good of a receiver. I thought that was one of the big reasons they drafted Ervin. Not really sure why Tyler doesn't get more pt at RB?
 
Texas Jake said:
Why would I want them double covered and if they were, why would I throw to them. What does having a DC double covering them have to do with their ability to get deep other than the fact that if they demonstrate enough times they are a threat DCs will start doing that. The fact that they aren't only demonstrates they haven't proved to be a threat, yet. I do agree that a more experienced receiver would be a more credible threat and their inexperience makes them more susceptible to being jammed at the line. That doesn't mean with the right play design, it can't be successful if set up properly by the play calling leading up to the play. I would like to see a little more creativity and imagination on offense.
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What you want to be able to do is dictate to the defense..force them to do something to stop something that is killing them. So to answer the 1st part of your post..credible deep threats do Dc's to do that..Ervin, the miller boys and Anderson ain't forcing them to do that. Sure, you could spend time in practice....in game trying to figure out the right time to call these plays & hope you get a coverage bust by the defense to spring those guys wide open or help to give them the advantage on a 50/50 ball, but for 1, deep ball throws are low percentage throws as is...even when you're throwing to a stud WR. secondly, due to their inexperience playing the position you're just not likely to be successful.

Everybody loves getting creative & imaginative on offense until it stops working...or leads to an unmitigated disaster of a play that leads to a loss. Then its "why are we doing all this gimmicky crap? we just need to line up and run/throw the ball to our go to playermakers!!!"
 
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Texans team is stripper. She's gonna do everything you need when the lights are off, but you better be heading home by sun-up.
 
dream_team said:
Why do you say that? Arian ran the wheel a lot with BOB. I would like to see it more with Lamar though.
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So far this season I have been uninspired by BOB calling the offense. From my persective the offense has been quite predictable and boring. It has reminded me more of what we had under Kubiak before Kubiak was fired.

As far as any calls made last season, the offense was called by George Godsey more than it was by coach BOB.

George Godsey as co offensive coordinator and play caller was a work in progress and from what I saw he was doing quite well at adapting and I thought he had a chance to really do something with the offense this season.

I think it was a mistake when BOB took the reigns from GG after two solid showings on offense under GG.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. The offense did not appear broke under GG.

I hope the offense is better going forward and I do think it would be wise to use Lamar more in the passing game.
 
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Texian said:
The suckage will continue in to next year. Osweiler cap hit goes from $12MM to $19MM. The Texans start out in 2017 in the bottom 25% of teams with available salary cap space (#26 w/ approx. $9MM). If the Texans re-sign Wilfork to his $5MM contract the cap gets worse. Duane Brown offers the most from a cap casualty release however hard to see how Texans can take a step forward at that position. A step back is a more likely scenario, especially with this collective management brain.

The Plain and Simple: If you start out as an 8-8 team with virtually no salary cap room available for improvement then a repeat performance of 2016 in 2017 is a very likely scenario, provided teams with much larger salary cap dollars available don't make considerably better improvements from the year before.

Example of how this Works: Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots will WIN Super Bowl 51 because Belichick was able to go out and sign 4 former 1st RD draft picks as free agents prior to the start of the 2016 season.
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(the above was posted by Texian, Oct 25, 2016 , read the BOLD)

Just because....y'all love it so when I say, I TOLD YOU SO.
 
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TheKDog said:
And since then, we've traded our two top picks next year. Amazing to watch.
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As long as Bob McNair continues with his behavior of reactive style management (band aids and quick fixes) vs being a Proactive style manager (plan for 2020 and 2017 will take care of itself), the Houston Texans will continue to wallow is a sea of mediocrity. McNair has the patience of a flea.
 
Hahaha well we need to protest out in front of NRG and try to get McNair out of here. Let him take this mediocrity team somewhere else. How dare he allow them to trade out of the 1st and 2nd round of the 2018 draft. How dare he give Rick that extention a few years ago.

Football season needs to hurry up and start already.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Hahaha well we need to protest out in front of NRG and try to get McNair out of here. Let him take this mediocrity team somewhere else. How dare he allow them to trade out of the 1st and 2nd round of the 2018 draft. How dare he give Rick that extention a few years ago.

Football season needs to hurry up and start already.
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How dare fans disagree with the way this franchise has been/is being run, despite 15 yrs of suckage and atleast another 4 to 5 yrs of avg QB play at best. Not to mention that the Texans are have the type of mgmt that considers trading a 2nd rd pick to fix THEIR F-UP a success.
 
steelbtexan said:
How dare fans disagree with the way this franchise has been/is being run, despite 15 yrs of suckage and atleast another 4 to 5 yrs of avg QB play at best. Not to mention that the Texans are have the type of mgmt that considers trading a 2nd rd pick to fix THEIR F-UP a success.
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One thing to remember about the Kool Aid drinkers, Mediocrity breeds Mediocrity.
 
steelbtexan said:
How dare fans disagree with the way this franchise has been/is being run, despite 15 yrs of suckage and atleast another 4 to 5 yrs of avg QB play at best. Not to mention that the Texans are have the type of mgmt that considers trading a 2nd rd pick to fix THEIR F-UP a success.
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One thing to remember about the Kool Aid Drinkers, Mediocrity breeds Mediocrity.
 
steelbtexan said:
How dare fans disagree with the way this franchise has been/is being run, despite 15 yrs of suckage and atleast another 4 to 5 yrs of avg QB play at best. Not to mention that the Texans are have the type of mgmt that considers trading a 2nd rd pick to fix THEIR F-UP a success.
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How dare the same fans bleep and complain about every little thing. Maybe if McNair takes his team somewhere else, you complainers won't have skit to complain about.

Man enjoy having a franchise in Houston and stop complaining about the same stuff every freaking day.
 
Texansballer74 said:
How dare the same fans bleep and complain about every little thing. Maybe if McNair takes his team somewhere else, you complainers won't have skit to complain about.

Man enjoy having a franchise in Houston and stop complaining about the same stuff every freaking day.
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The little things add up to big things. Which lead up to spending two 1sts on a mediocre qb.

BTW, where we differ is I would rather not have a franchise represent the city, than have the in competent sh!t show that currently resides on Kirby.
 
Yes they do.

Would you say the Yankees represent NY?

What would you say represents a city?
 
Texansballer74 said:
How dare the same fans bleep and complain about every little thing. Maybe if McNair takes his team somewhere else, you complainers won't have skit to complain about.

Man enjoy having a franchise in Houston and stop complaining about the same stuff every freaking day.
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I'll never understand hometown fans that get up all upset when other hometown fans discuss observations about the franchise, positive or negative. Why are hometown fans supposed to live like North Korean citizens to you?
 
Texansballer74 said:
How dare the same fans bleep and complain about every little thing. Maybe if McNair takes his team somewhere else, you complainers won't have skit to complain about.

Man enjoy having a franchise in Houston and stop complaining about the same stuff every freaking day.
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What are we allowed to complain about and what are we not allowed to complain about? It's been open season on O'Brien from "complainers" but that seems OK. However, if someone criticizes management that's wrong.

The amount of blame this 3rd year going on number 4 HC receives versus a GM going into his 12th season with this team is disproportionate, IMHO. If we were looking at continuous blunders by O'Brien I'd probably change my mind. But he hasn't. He hasn't been great either but I don't think he's been near as bad as some people make him out to be.

Maybe I'm biased. I like O'Brien. He's raising two kids, one with a severe mental disability. He has that pressure on him as well as trying to convert a historically mediocre team into a SB Winner. My hat's off to him and if he's fired or decides to leave I wish him well wherever he goes.
 
Texecutioner said:
I'll never understand hometown fans that get up all upset when other hometown fans discuss observations about the franchise, positive or negative. Why are hometown fans supposed to live like North Korean citizens to you?
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I left the other board partly because of that kind of reaction. I don't like posting realistic comments and being called a Negative Nancy.
 
Texecutioner said:
I'll never understand hometown fans that get up all upset when other hometown fans discuss observations about the franchise, positive or negative. Why are hometown fans supposed to live like North Korean citizens to you?
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What I do understand is our fan base is up there with Philly. One of the worse.

And dude it's the constant bashing is what im talking about. Yes we will all have our moments. But to complain about the same skit on dang near every freaking thread.

And for the record I am not upset. Skit like this does not tick me off like that.
 
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