Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Watt out for season - Not

amazing80

Fire Billy O
If a sound medical decision was to be made by a medical staff uninfluenced and unpressured by "outside forces,' Watt would definitely not be returning for the Texans' 1st playoff game.
Some of the greatest feats are done with great risk. Sometimes being the smartest guy in the room limits greatness. Sure he has more risk. But there’s also a chance he doesn’t re-injure himself.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Really bothers me to see Watt may be cleared to play in the WC game. I just don't think this is a good move. I hope this is more of a decoy decision, announce he's going to play, let him suit up for the game, have the Bills game plan for him......then have him remain on the sideline.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Im STOKED!! Just the psychological effect it brings is great for the team. He's a true leader and guys gravitate to him. How much more can he aggravate the current injury im assuming he can wear some kind of brace that limits the movement in his arm? More concerning would be picking up another unrelated serious injury, but its a 'ALL IN' year and this is Watt's way of going in himself.

How effective can he be? Im not so sure, but when I see Jameis Winston have a 5-7 yard buffer zone and take his sweet ass time delivering balls everywhere I tend to want to think that Watt would help somewhat in that regard. Not sure he's the space eater and Hulk Avenger he was in the past to consistently draw double teams, but if he gets off fast and starts playing in the backfield and disrupting rhythm and offensive cohesion then its all you can really ask for.

This guy has been a really special player, its been an honor rooting for him now that its starting to near the end, I can only hope and pray OBrien and Deshaun can get hot enough to be the strength the team needs at the most critical time of the year and reward JJ with a serious deep run.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
From December 1, 2019:



It seems like Watt and many here are trying to trivialize/justify the scenario of a retear of the pec...........what can he lose?............just have to go through another rehab without rush, and nothing is lost?..........right? It should be so simple............but it's not.

A retear could lead to shredding of the remaining pec tendon, his return to play % likely drops from 90%, His chances of returning to pre-injury level is likely closer to 74% of his 74% initial recovery. His loss of strength now essentially becomes cumulative. In my previous posts, I never reported that the range of motion of the athletes' arm is usually decreased by anywhere from 10-25% because of scar formation and scar contracture of the muscle...........creating further scar tissue formation from a re-injury would only increase this % of loss.

No, if he retears, it is not as simple and benign as it has been presented.......it's not like picking up the pieces and just starting off where he left off.

By Watt taking this route, it seems to tell me that he may feel that this is his last chance to make it to a SB, and either feels that he may not be able to make it through another season.........or may even need to reconsider retirement. With that said, I can see why he has made the personal decision to return so soon............and I cannot say with certainty that he will re-injure when he comes back this soon...........only that his risks are markedly increased.

I wish JJ the best whatever the outcome.:texflag:
I was wondering if he hadn't already decided to retire in the off-season and wants to go down swinging so to speak.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
I was wondering if he hadn't already decided to retire in the off-season and wants to go down swinging so to speak.
That is a definite possibility.

The other day somebody said the Texans are a better team without Watt, and I wanted to punch him in the teeth. I argued that JJ's presence frees up other defenders for sacks in addition to his own. I conceded that the defense would be more effective if Watt were left to play one position instead of lining up all over the place. That may get more sacks for him, but takes away some from other defenders. But that's a different thing than taking him out of the lineup.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
That is a definite possibility.

The other day somebody said the Texans are a better team without Watt, and I wanted to punch him in the teeth. I argued that JJ's presence frees up other defenders for sacks in addition to his own. I conceded that the defense would be more effective if Watt were left to play one position instead of lining up all over the place. That may get more sacks for him, but takes away some from other defenders. But that's a different thing than taking him out of the lineup.
It is much more likely that his effectiveness would be decreased if he were to be left to play one position, as this would give teams the advantage of being more focused knowing where their defensive efforts need to be concentrated.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Its more likely that he'll be on a snap count...probably only in obvious passing situations. At least that's what it should be.
Exactly he should be in there only on obvious passing downs and it should only be rushing from the outside.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Exactly he should be in there only on obvious passing downs and it should only be rushing from the outside.
That's no real safer approach to his problem. In fact, most of his sacks from the outside are when he takes a round about way to QB, where the sacks come from the QB's side or back................in order to pull the QB in and wrapped, both of these types of sacks come with the greatest forces/torque being placed on his left injured arm/pec........especially when the arm is outstretched. The harness will limit the pec to be over-stretched and tear by that mechanism, but even when not fully stretched, the extreme quick force of contraction of the pec muscle (for that matter any muscle) is enough alone to tear the muscle or the tendon from the bone...........especially when is not fully healed and at full strength.

1577463632280.png

1577463489733.png
1577463766408.png
1577464033661.png
 
Last edited:

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@CloakNNNdagger - are there no harnesses/upper torso brace than can limit his mobility to avoid reinjury? Similar to what guys have when they have suspect shoulders?

maybe something like this? 1577464969453.png

In my feeble mind I see Watt doing the Frankenstein only able to lift his arms to shoulder level. It would certainly limit what he can grasp for and extend out like in some of your images, but Watt just bowling over linemen and causing havoc in the backfield minus the superstar individual plays might be enough to swing the favor to our side on defense in certain situations.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
@CloakNNNdagger - are there no harnesses/upper torso brace than can limit his mobility to avoid reinjury? Similar to what guys have when they have suspect shoulders?

maybe something like this? View attachment 5230

In my feeble mind I see Watt doing the Frankenstein only able to lift his arms to shoulder level. It would certainly limit what he can grasp for and extend out like in some of your images, but Watt just bowling over linemen and causing havoc in the backfield minus the superstar individual plays might be enough to swing the favor to our side on defense in certain situations.
The pic you posted would be similar to the one Watt is wearing, but his would probably offer more adjustability and be better reinforced and more restrictive.
1577471844901.png
1577473027508.png
He will be able to lift his arm straight up parallel to the side of his body [see pic below], but will be blocked from lifting his arm up and away from or behind his body as to not allow stretch on the repair. The brace will also limit his ability to bring his arm back and reach behind him.

1577473678808.png

1577473880773.png

1577471586509.png
As I wrote in my previous post, limiting his range of motion does not limited the strength of muscle contraction even when the muscle is somewhat less stretched. The brace only limits one of the mechanisms to re-injury of his pec repair.
 
Last edited:

PapaL

Loose Screw
I just hope he doesn't re-injure himself because if he does the team is going to face a shitstorm of criticism over this move.
Unless he walks away. We all know he’s not the 3xDPOTY anymore. He’s always said he’d leave before a shadow of who he was. He’s close. This is a reality check for JJ and us. He’s got a few highlights left before Canton. Hopefully it’s 4 weeks worth.
 

Texan Asylum

Hall of Fame
Unless he walks away. We all know he’s not the 3xDPOTY anymore. He’s always said he’d leave before a shadow of who he was. He’s close. This is a reality check for JJ and us. He’s got a few highlights left before Canton. Hopefully it’s 4 weeks worth.
To retire with the Lombardi Trophy hoisted high would be fitting. I know, it’s the koolaid talking. :)
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Unless he walks away. We all know he’s not the 3xDPOTY anymore. He’s always said he’d leave before a shadow of who he was. He’s close. This is a reality check for JJ and us. He’s got a few highlights left before Canton. Hopefully it’s 4 weeks worth.
I don't think this has to be Watt's swan-song season. He keeps himself in great shape and only needs the proper time to let this injury completely heal.

Even more important "in my mind" would be a change in 2020 to a 4-3 defensive alignment that puts Watt at DE and 2 other solid DT's next to him.....Reader and Watkins or Vanderdoes. They need DL in front of the OL to help reduce the amount of double teams Watt has to play through. A great helper as another 4-3 DE could be Michigan States Kenny Willekes (6-4 @ 260 lbs) who knows how to do his job and has a high motor. The analyst are projecting this solid EDGE player as an even better 4-3 DE. I think Wake Forest DE/EDGE, Carlos Basham, Jr (6-5 @ 275 lbs) could also be in the picture as I see him as the better disrupter from the other DE spot. He possesses both NFL ready size and strength to be a 3 down player opposite Watt.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Even more important "in my mind" would be a change in 2020 to a 4-3 defensive alignment that puts Watt at DE and 2 other solid DT's next to him.....Reader and Watkins or Vanderdoes.
So, you're wanting to change DC's?
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
So, you're wanting to change DC's?
Yeah....now that you mention it, it wouldn't be a bad move if it happened. I'm tired of watching RC execute his bend but don't break defense since it tends to leave his defense on the field too long. I also don't like how the DB's give receivers such a massive cushion instead of getting up to the line and physically challenging those receivers to get off the line. It's a little tiring to see how easy opposing teams can hit the 6-8 yard pass plays with little to no disruption.
 

Sonny

TexSon Proud
If he gets any more devices, contraptions or machinery placed on his left arm he might as well join the Avengers and become besties with Captain America.

Anybody remember this TV show intro? Name it if you can.

"We can rebuild him; we have the technology."
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
If he gets any more devices, contraptions or machinery placed on his left arm he might as well join the Avengers and become besties with Captain America.

Anybody remember this TV show intro? Name it if you can.

"We can rebuild him; we have the technology."
6 million $ man starring Lee Majors which led to the Bionic woman starring Jamie Summers
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm tired of watching RC execute his bend but don't break defense since it tends to leave his defense on the field too long. I also don't like how the DB's give receivers such a massive cushion instead of getting up to the line and physically challenging those receivers to get off the line. It's a little tiring to see how easy opposing teams can hit the 6-8 yard pass plays with little to no disruption.
I can understand your position if that was all we've seen from RAC. It's all we've seen lately, last 3 years or so.

But back when we had ballers at every level of the defense it wasn't that way. We had a fierce 4 man pass rush. LBs who played sideline to sideline, behind the LOS, & intercepted passes. & DBs that owned the secondary.

Since we've been building an offense the defense has been wasting away. Slowly but surely. Bending & not breaking was the best option for what was left of the Rick Smith years.

Now, with the increase of talent on the back end, we haven't been "keeping everything in front of us" & have been giving up big plays. But they've only been playing together as a group for three or four games.

If we can find a way to improve our pass rush (out of thin air) I think we can have a shutdown defense again.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
If we can find a way to improve our pass rush (out of thin air) I think we can have a shutdown defense again.
To me that's the priority now in the offseason.

-Upgrade scarlett
-Upgrade pass rush at de (finding a 5tech who can actually rush will be hard)
-Upgrade fulton
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To me that's the priority now in the offseason.

-Upgrade scarlett
-Upgrade pass rush at de (finding a 5tech who can actually rush will be hard)
-Upgrade fulton
I'd like to see an upgrade at DL coach. Those guys, DJ Reader included don't seem to use their hands well, or at all. Omenehu has all the tools but doesn't seem to be putting them together.

Jj is a master at the hand game & wins many of his battles largely because of his hands.

I also wonder if we can get more out of Martin.

I'm not against adding talent, just adding some thoughts.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
I'd like to see an upgrade at DL coach. Those guys, DJ Reader included don't seem to use their hands well, or at all. Omenehu has all the tools but doesn't seem to be putting them together.

Jj is a master at the hand game & wins many of his battles largely because of his hands.

I also wonder if we can get more out of Martin.

I'm not against adding talent, just adding some thoughts.
I actually think just the opposite. In all honesty though I'm not looking for dl technique on any given play. I don't know enough about hand fighting, leverage, etc, to judge it fairly. I'm just looking for production...

And DL production should be tempered in a 3 man front because of 2 gap responsibilities. Once watt was out our guys beside reader were no-namers. I think they did well in run defense as a whole considering they weren't even drafted. I think the coach did better then could be expected given the talent he had. I'd like to see a high pick invested on dl.

To be clear, I am definitely making a distinction here between the dl and olb. Olbs underperformed imo.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I'd like to see an upgrade at DL coach. Those guys, DJ Reader included don't seem to use their hands well, or at all. Omenehu has all the tools but doesn't seem to be putting them together.

Jj is a master at the hand game & wins many of his battles largely because of his hands.

I also wonder if we can get more out of Martin.

I'm not against adding talent, just adding some thoughts.
I love Weaver, he made Blackson and Dunn servicable, Reader a almost All Pro level, and Charles is coming along. I think all DL that come here get better. Room for more growth, sure, but Weaver is not a problem to me, but rather an asset. Just my .02
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
6 million $ man starring Lee Majors which led to the Bionic woman starring Jamie Summers
Met Lee Majors at Toys R Us when I was 8 years old. My 1st brush up with a celebrity. The rest have pretty much been sports celebrities. Though I did meet Screech downtown not long ago. Never watched that show so somebody had to tell me who he was.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
Met Lee Majors at Toys R Us when I was 8 years old. My 1st brush up with a celebrity. The rest have pretty much been sports celebrities. Though I did meet Screech downtown not long ago. Never watched that show so somebody had to tell me who he was.
I stood in line for 2 hours as a kid to meet and shake the hand of chuck Norris. I was maybe 5. Sweatiest hand ever. Not worth it.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Met Lee Majors at Toys R Us when I was 8 years old. My 1st brush up with a celebrity. The rest have pretty much been sports celebrities. Though I did meet Screech downtown not long ago. Never watched that show so somebody had to tell me who he was.
I got to meet and get an autographed pic of Bo Diddley years ago and was on Kitirek's tv show as a kid... that's about it
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I'd like to see an upgrade at DL coach. Those guys, DJ Reader included don't seem to use their hands well, or at all. Omenehu has all the tools but doesn't seem to be putting them together.

Jj is a master at the hand game & wins many of his battles largely because of his hands.

I also wonder if we can get more out of Martin.

I'm not against adding talent, just adding some thoughts.
I actually think just the opposite. In all honesty though I'm not looking for dl technique on any given play. I don't know enough about hand fighting, leverage, etc, to judge it fairly. I'm just looking for production...

And DL production should be tempered in a 3 man front because of 2 gap responsibilities. Once watt was out our guys beside reader were no-namers. I think they did well in run defense as a whole considering they weren't even drafted. I think the coach did better then could be expected given the talent he had. I'd like to see a high pick invested on dl.

To be clear, I am definitely making a distinction here between the dl and olb. Olbs underperformed imo.
What's that old saying......a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Every season the Texans seem to have that one or multiple weak links on both sides of the ball.

Great coaches learn how to turn their weak links in complimentary links in their overall scheme. I haven't seen Texans coaches at any time who were capable of getting the weak links up to complimentary status......except for maybe the first season of the "Next Man Up" team statement.

Reader and Mercilus were making solid statements when Watt was playing. He may not be the same machine he once was but Watt commands respect the moment he step on the field, which bodes well for those around him.

As much as I asked for Clowney to be traded, one of the best Texans seasons defensively came when Clowney was in and Watt was out. Clowney played Watt's position.....his stats didn't mirror those of Watt but his impact may have exceeded Watt's. The problem I had, everyone saw what Clowney did from his natural position of DE, it killed me watching him get lined up as OLB. When Watt came back the following season, I think the Texans could've elevated their defense to #1 in the NFL had RC moved to 4-3 and had both Watt and Clowney as full-time DE's with set sides in which they would work. I would've stuffed both Reader and Watkins in the middle. Mercilus, Cunninghham and McKinney backing them up would've been very-very good. Teams just wouldn't have been able to focus solely on Watt for double and triple team protection. That alone could've helped reduce the wear and tear on Watt's body.

Same thing could be said for the way Kareem Jackson was used by the Texans. About mid-way through his rookie season I was already mentioning to my football fan friends that KJax needed to be a FS b/c he couldn't play the game with his back to the ball. About once a season I said or wrote that KJax should've been a spokesman for Aloe Vera b/c it was good for burns. This year, the Broncos have lined him up as their starting SS and he's had a pretty nice season while posting a 82.3 PFF rating at the position. IMHO, if the Texans had moved him sooner to FS.....KJax would've been a regular in the Pro Bowl and probably still with the team. Jackson had great speed and physicality to own the FS position.

Watt cannot be the primary focus when he's on the field.....the Texans have some solid pieces already on the roster but they are in need of a solid 4-3 scheme and a shiny new 4-3 DE from the draft. It could be a difference maker come 2020.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
He didn't play in the Virginian , that was Doug McClure and James Drury.

He did play in "The Big Valley" with Barbara Stanwick and Linda Evans.
Right, the Big Valley. I don't even remember anything about the Virginian, other than mistaking it for another series. I must have watched it at some point to remember the name.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
If Watt does end up playing, expect him to have 2 Olinemen to be put on him from the beginning of the game.............not necessarily because the Bills will be afraid of him, but because they will be testing his conditioning and his left arm..................expect them to force him to use and depend on that left arm...........don't kid yourself, that arm will have a big target on it The Bills will be smelling blood in the water, and will be attacking accordingly to draw more.
 


Top