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Watt out for season - Not

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The Bucs Injury Report is updated.
Mods, please feel free to move the accumulating non injury posts re Clowney and Suggs from this thread.
Sorry, I haven't been drinking tonight.............. just no sleep and was trying to get the injury info out last night before I ate and turned in. My apologies!

Mods, could I ask you to move my recent injury posts above to the Injury Thread. Thanks.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
When i hear "pec tear" and him needing surgery, i think of this or this
View attachment 5121 View attachment 5122

He's already been out long enough to have healed from the surgery...but if his tear was anywhere close to the level of these, It would be complete foolishness to entertain him coming back before next season......but I don't think he or the Texans FO would be leaving the door open like they have if it wasn't a possibility But they are, so to me, his injury must've not been as severe as the pics. CnD..educate me please as i'm floundering here. Are there gradients to these tears & could he realistically come back to play after a severe tear like the above illustrations?
I have posted my response to these questions in the Injury Report thread (for easier search/retrieval purposes).
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
MODS: Since the INJURY REPORTS from this thread has not yet been moved to the Injury thread, I've gone ahead and duplicated them to the Injury thread.
 
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Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Oh man this would go down in Houston sports lore if JJ came back and provided the ONE THING the defense lacks right now and thats just a consistent push from the LOS.

How bad could he really reinjure the pec? Im more concerned of him sustaining an altogether different injury due to all the downtime and fitness level, but if anyone could come back and actually be a difference maker for a game or two it would be Watt. Crossing fingers!

 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Oh man this would go down in Houston sports lore if JJ came back and provided the ONE THING the defense lacks right now and thats just a consistent push from the LOS.

How bad could he really reinjure the pec? Im more concerned of him sustaining an altogether different injury due to all the downtime and fitness level, but if anyone could come back and actually be a difference maker for a game or two it would be Watt. Crossing fingers!

As we know football is a sport which is played basically from the waist down. Given Watts well know work ethic isn't it reasonable to assume
he's kept his legs and cardiovascular system in good condition during his rehab ? Maybe not "football condition" but "nearby".
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
May have been better, but we didn't have much of a pass rush before Jj got hurt.

Romeo needs to dial up the blitz packages & false looks.
While you are right I’m ecstatic about the psychological aspect. Teams will need to account for him. Watt moves the needle by himself. Extra blockers, run direction etc... hell even if Bill is just throwing it out there with no chance of it happening- it’s a good idea.

you guys want RAC to blitz more but then when the long TDs start falling then what? Keep it all in front of you. It’s a slow pain I get it, but it’s the only way to play with the talent he has. He has been blitzing but even with extra guys they aren’t getting there.
 

texanhead08

All Pro
I would question the wisdom of this move on many levels. I'm afraid that this is just like the giant tire rolls and 6' box jumps, more of another attempt at a "Superman" show of "See what I can do" that may yet again not translate into anything good.

View attachment 5168


I agree I am no expert but I think this is not a good decision. If he re injures it does that make him a salary reduction candidate because of his contract and being hurt so much.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I would question the wisdom of this move on many levels. I'm afraid that this is just like the giant tire rolls and 6' box jumps, more of another attempt at a "Superman" show of "See what I can do" that may yet again not translate into anything good.

View attachment 5168
What is long term affects if he plays and re-injures himself? JJ is a warrior and will want to do everything possible to help this team. You can fully expect him to play even if it's at 50%.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I agree I am no expert but I think this is not a good decision. If he re injures it does that make him a salary reduction candidate because of his contract and being hurt so much.
People don't want to talk about it, but in the past 4 years, out of 64 games Watt has played in only 32. Contrast that to what we consider way-all-too-often injured Fuller who has played in 41 games in that same period of time
 

texan279

Hall of Fame
I would question the wisdom of this move on many levels. I'm afraid that this is just like the giant tire rolls and 6' box jumps, more of another attempt at a "Superman" show of "See what I can do" that may yet again not translate into anything good.

View attachment 5168
I see no reason for him to risk it and this organization to allow it just so the Texans can be eliminated in round one. Seems like there are some real clowns running the show on Kirby.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
What is long term affects if he plays and re-injures himself? JJ is a warrior and will want to do everything possible to help this team. You can fully expect him to play even if it's at 50%.
I tend to agree with CND and others that have been very critical of the Texans training/medical staff. In this instance, however, I think the risk/reward to allow Watt to play makes sense, as long as he has been properly informed.

For the team, Watt could possibly provide the missing element on defense (a pass rush) that, combined with the improved secondary, could turn the defense into a strength heading into the playoffs. If I am right about that, then I believe the Texans have the best chance they have ever had to make a deep playoff run (2011 doesn't count once Schaub's foot was Haynesworthed).

Regarding Watt, he is likely on the back side of his career. Unlike knee/leg and lower back injuries, compensatory injury threats from an injured pectoral do not threaten long term core structures of his body. Also, re-injury (which I assume would be somewhat likely) is not a threat to his long term health the way a chronic lower back or arthritic knee can be.

In other words, he would be risking an impact to his 2020 season, a slight risk to his production on the back end of his career, but he would not be risking his post-career quality of life... and, this may be his best shot to make a Superbowl.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I tend to agree with CND and others that have been very critical of the Texans training/medical staff. In this instance, however, I think the risk/reward to allow Watt to play makes sense, as long as he has been properly informed.

For the team, Watt could possibly provide the missing element on defense (a pass rush) that, combined with the improved secondary, could turn the defense into a strength heading into the playoffs. If I am right about that, then I believe the Texans have the best chance they have ever had to make a deep playoff run (2011 doesn't count once Schaub's foot was Haynesworthed).

Regarding Watt, he is likely on the back side of his career. Unlike knee/leg and lower back injuries, compensatory injury threats from an injured pectoral do not threaten long term core structures of his body. Also, re-injury (which I assume would be somewhat likely) is not a threat to his long term health the way a chronic lower back or arthritic knee can be.

In other words, he would be risking an impact to his 2020 season, a slight risk to his production on the back end of his career, but he would not be risking his post-career quality of life... and, this may be his best shot to make a Superbowl.
His core problems and knee problem affect mobility as far as being able to quickly change direction. When Watt tackles effectively, his arms are supposed to be close to his body. If he can't square up quickly to position him well for a sack or tackle, he must stretch his arm out to his side to compensate, thus placing inordinate torque on his shoulder/pec. This was actually the case when he tore his pec
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I would question the wisdom of this move on many levels. I'm afraid that this is just like the giant tire rolls and 6' box jumps, more of another attempt at a "Superman" show of "See what I can do" that may yet again not translate into anything good.

View attachment 5168
Wouldn't a MRI of the injury help determine how much progress has been made? You would think the team doctors would look at that before allowing Watt to return.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Maybe Watt feels that the biggest risk is if he doesn't play this post season he may never have the chance to play in another P/O game.
In other words why save it for another regular season with no guarantees of even getting the chance at the prize again.
I'm at the top of the list of Texans fans who give the team virtually no shot at the SB this postseason but what if Watson got really hot and everything fell our way can you imagine how Watt would feel if he missed that trip ?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Maybe Watt feels that the biggest risk is if he doesn't play this post season he may never have the chance to play in another P/O game.
I think what Doc is trying to stress, is Watt should have no say in the matter. A medical professional will decide if he plays or not.

The fact that medical professional has already cleared him for practice is irresponsible.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
I think what Doc is trying to stress, is Watt should have no say in the matter. A medical professional will decide if he plays or not.

The fact that medical professional has already cleared him for practice is irresponsible.
Sure in every day life, but when it comes to Sports a professional athlete gets a say. Tell him the risks and allow it. He is no longer our best player and is on the backend of his career, especially with his injuries. If he plays and gets hurt, then it's a risk he was willing to take. You cannot make these decisions in a vacuum. Like I asked, what is the long-term risk for him?
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
I think what Doc is trying to stress, is Watt should have no say in the matter. A medical professional will decide if he plays or not.

The fact that medical professional has already cleared him for practice is irresponsible.
I disagree as long as the doctor has given him the information. Again, what is the risk? I don't think that potentially re-tearing a pectoral muscle is something that should be avoided under any circumstances. If it was his back, knee, hip, then I would think differently.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I understand that. But you can't say it needs to be one thing, and when that one thing happens then say it's irresponsible.

No biggie though.
No, no, no, no....

If the doctor clears him because Jj says he's ready despite the doctor's better judgment

That would be irresponsible.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Wouldn't a MRI of the injury help determine how much progress has been made? You would think the team doctors would look at that before allowing Watt to return.
Just like other injuries such as hamstrings, studies have shown that postop MRIs can show anatomic continuity of the repair, but are not predictive of integrity/strength, especially under severe stress as Watt would require in order to perform........and most importantly to perform safely.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
I admire and support J.J. Watt's decision to play. It's his choice. Sort of reminds me of Lance McCullers Jr. Everybody is saying he'll be on an innings limit in 2020 coming off Tommy John's surgery and rehab. But McCullers said the other day if he feels good there's no innings limit. He'll pitch as much as possible to help the team win. Players like that is what you want in any pro sport.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
our run defense has slipped. I think RAC has schemed pressure and really leaned on front 7 to stop run no matter what to protect the back end, and blitzed more without JJ. Will be interesting to see how RAC feels about his defensive backfield and still blitz with Watt doing his thing. I like how that sounds. JJ sounded like a snap count in play first game back.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
My eyes tell me otherwise. I’ve enjoyed seeing DJ Reader emerge along with Cunningham.

but my reply was based from the NFL link above... here’s the excerpt.
Yup. Our eyes are telling us different stories. Lol. When Watt went down, I saw an average defense go to one of the worst in the league. Cunningham and Reader were already exceptional in my eyes, Watt going out didn't change anything for me.
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
Probably only going to be for one game unless we happen to get by the Bills. Likely only play on first and third downs with some sort of pitch count on BOB's or RACe head. Might work, but obviously there is more than a little risk.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Listening to JJ, I think this was a easy recovery compared to what he has been through so he is like, it seems ok, worse case I tear it again and have to rehab for 3-4 months in the off season and this was not all bad. Team risk is he plays bad or takes risks and allows big plays without getting us any big plays back. QB pressures would be nice, strip sacks merry xmas. If he is cleared let him go as he knows the risks. RAC needs to control the big boy and use him smart though
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Listening to JJ, I think this was a easy recovery compared to what he has been through so he is like, it seems ok, worse case I tear it again and have to rehab for 3-4 months in the off season and this was not all bad. Team risk is he plays bad or takes risks and allows big plays without getting us any big plays back. QB pressures would be nice, strip sacks merry xmas. If he is cleared let him go as he knows the risks. RAC needs to control the big boy and use him smart though
This is how I've understood it as well. A re-tear would just bump him back to week 1 of next season and so what.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Listening to JJ, I think this was a easy recovery compared to what he has been through so he is like, it seems ok, worse case I tear it again and have to rehab for 3-4 months in the off season and this was not all bad. Team risk is he plays bad or takes risks and allows big plays without getting us any big plays back. QB pressures would be nice, strip sacks merry xmas. If he is cleared let him go as he knows the risks. RAC needs to control the big boy and use him smart though
This is how I've understood it as well. A re-tear would just bump him back to week 1 of next season and so what.
From December 1, 2019:

What is interesting to note in this most recent review, the proportion of professional athletes who returned to their preinjury level of sport was lower. Although the majority (90%) returned to play, only 74% returned to preinjury level. The decrease of strength of the affected arm was typically only ~10%, but in an elite athlete that requires maximum strength to excel at his position, 10% is a significant loss.

For Watt to come back for the 2020 playoffs would likely set him up, like commonly occurs for any player pushing his return, for poor performance and high risk re-injury. A first game playoff return would mean Watt would be returning only ~2 months post surgery...........the conference championship game at only ~2 1/2 months post surgery...............and even if delayed until the SB, ~3 months post surgery.
It seems like Watt and many here are trying to trivialize/justify the scenario of a retear of the pec...........what can he lose?............just have to go through another rehab without rush, and nothing is lost?..........right? It should be so simple............but it's not.

A retear could lead to shredding of the remaining pec tendon, his return to play % likely drops from 90%, His chances of returning to pre-injury level is likely closer to 74% of his 74% initial recovery. His loss of strength now essentially becomes cumulative. In my previous posts, I never reported that the range of motion of the athletes' arm is usually decreased by anywhere from 10-25% because of scar formation and scar contracture of the muscle...........creating further scar tissue formation from a re-injury would only increase this % of loss.

No, if he retears, it is not as simple and benign as it has been presented.......it's not like picking up the pieces and just starting off where he left off.

By Watt taking this route, it seems to tell me that he may feel that this is his last chance to make it to a SB, and either feels that he may not be able to make it through another season.........or may even need to reconsider retirement. With that said, I can see why he has made the personal decision to return so soon............and I cannot say with certainty that he will re-injure when he comes back this soon...........only that his risks are markedly increased.

I wish JJ the best whatever the outcome.:texflag:
 

TexanBorn51

Veteran
Wishing JJWatt a safe healthy speedy recovery. It would be great for the playoffs. I'm no expert and I'll leave it up to the medical field for decision.
 
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