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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

Texansballer74 said:
But wouldn’t you place that blame on coaching as well as the center who also calls out the blocking assignments?
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I absolutely blame the coaching. I'm just saying I don't think the problem is his ability to process, or the speed which he does it.

I think better coaching would help prepare him. Now, I don't know, but it could be possible that Bill has been trying to get these concepts through Watson's thick skull, but Watson didn't "get it" until he actually saw it. But that doesn't fit my narrative.

The Center doesn't call out blocking assignments. The QB does.


Texansballer74 said:
Another thing we should note is how the defense switches coverages. One minute they’re showing cover 1, then quickly switches to cover 4. How do we expect Watson to process that when the ball has been snapped.
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This is what I'm talking about. We have offensive assistants who scout opposing teams on our schedule. They're supposed to identify tendencies & what not and put together the film packages the coaches use to prepare the team for the coming game.

Since BO'b has been here I've thought that part of the preparation has been woefully inept.
 
thunderkyss said:
I absolutely blame the coaching. I'm just saying I don't think the problem is his ability to process, or the speed which he does it.

I think better coaching would help prepare him. Now, I don't know, but it could be possible that Bill has been trying to get these concepts through Watson's thick skull, but Watson didn't "get it" until he actually saw it. But that doesn't fit my narrative.

The Center doesn't call out blocking assignments. The QB does.



This is what I'm talking about. We have offensive assistants who scout opposing teams on our schedule. They're supposed to identify tendencies & what not and put together the film packages the coaches use to prepare the team for the coming game.

Since BO'b has been here I've thought that part of the preparation has been woefully inept.
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Agreed on all fronts except Martin calling out the blocking assignments. I believe BoB said it himself that he does and that they will allow Watson to call out some of them this season.
 
TBaller74 posted this video in another thread.


Take a look at the play being broken down @3:08. As the ball is snapped you’ll see the slot receiver on top run a quick slant uncovered in the middle of the field.

some may say that Watson should have taken that easy throw, but he doesn’t even see it before he scrambles out of the pocket. They might be right, I don’t know.

Perhaps in the film room Kelly, McCarron, & McCown will probably be telling him that was the throw he should have made.

The commentator explains why he believes Watson should be looking first at Will Fuller, based on the play called (which we now know because we see it) & the coverage, he highlights the position of the MIKE LB, and the off Safety.

His explanation is plausible.

Is there anything you see that should have told Watson the first read should have been the slot receiver up top?
 
thunderkyss said:
Take a look at the play being broken down @3:08. As the ball is snapped you’ll see the slot receiver on top run a quick slant uncovered in the middle of the field.
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That's not a slant. How is it that people who want to tell professional players the reads they should be making can't tell the difference between a slant and stick route?

thunderkyss said:
Is there anything you see that should have told Watson the first read should have been the slot receiver up top?
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It's 3rd down. Look at the sticks. The 1st down marker is at the 2-yard line. The slot receiver is running along the 8-yard line. That throw might make sense on 1st or 2nd down but it's totally pointless on 3rd down. Why would you expect him to throw a pass that is 6 yards short of the 1st down marker on 3rd down AND defended?

Screen Shot 2020-12-14 at 10.27.11 AM.png

Also, this has nothing to do with what were discussing earlier. I asked you to find screenshots from the film review of the Colts game. Apparently, you weren't able to, which is why you changed the subject and hoped I would forget about it.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
Also, this has nothing to do with what were discussing earlier. I asked you to find screenshots from the film review of the Colts game. Apparently, you weren't able to, which is why you changed the subject and hoped I would forget about it.
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I posted the video. I'm under no obligation to post stills, because you asked for stills.

ClemsonTexan said:
It's 3rd down. Look at the sticks. The 1st down marker is at the 2-yard line. The slot receiver is running along the 8-yard line. That throw might make sense on 1st or 2nd down but it's totally pointless on 3rd down. Why would you expect him to throw a pass that is 6 yards short of the 1st down marker on 3rd down AND defended?
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I don't.

There is an ongoing argument here, where a few of our posters say Watson passes up on the "short quick" routes in favor of the deeper routes. I know there are no deep routes on this play, but my point in bringing this one up is the way the commentator discusses the routes we know after the fact, in lieu of the defense shown pre snap. & how that determines Watson's progression.

When "they" are talking about Watson going through his progression, they're talking about starting high working low, or starting right & working left or something to that effect. But what Watson does, is much more complicated than that. Like this time, it's based on what Watson expects the defense to do. Sometimes it's based on a matchup. Sometimes it's based on our bunched formation, etc...

So even though we know what the play call is looking at the routes after the fact, we really don't know the progression because it's really determined by the way Watson sees the field.

So I ask what do you see presnap that tells you what your first read should be.
 
thunderkyss said:
I posted the video. I'm under no obligation to post stills, because you asked for stills.
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No, you didn't post the video. I posted the video. It was a film review of the Texans-Colts game. You said there were "so many plays" where Watson stood tall in the pocket and delivered a strike despite the O-Line not blocking. I asked you for examples and YOU provided a still of the safety in the end zone.

We should just drop this because we're going around in circles.

thunderkyss said:
So I ask what do you see presnap that tells you what your first read should be.
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I guess the difference between me and those other posters is I don't speak on things I don't know or understand. It's the same way I don't walk into an operating room and tell the surgeon all the things he should be doing. Or explain to the fighter pilot that he shoulda coulda done something differently.
 
Corrosion said:
The entire offense was putrid against Da Bears.
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The entire offense is putrid. No RBs, the middle of the line play like they're on acid, Keke Coutee is your WR1, practice squad dude who hasn't taken a snap since 2017 is your WR2, and an OC that doesn't have a clue. How TF is Watson not tearing up the league with all of that?

When you're on a shitty team you're going to have shitty games from time to time.
 
thunderkyss said:
I posted the video. I'm under no obligation to post stills, because you asked for stills.



I don't.

There is an ongoing argument here, where a few of our posters say Watson passes up on the "short quick" routes in favor of the deeper routes. I know there are no deep routes on this play, but my point in bringing this one up is the way the commentator discusses the routes we know after the fact, in lieu of the defense shown pre snap. & how that determines Watson's progression.

When "they" are talking about Watson going through his progression, they're talking about starting high working low, or starting right & working left or something to that effect. But what Watson does, is much more complicated than that. Like this time, it's based on what Watson expects the defense to do. Sometimes it's based on a matchup. Sometimes it's based on our bunched formation, etc...

So even though we know what the play call is looking at the routes after the fact, we really don't know the progression because it's really determined by the way Watson sees the field.

So I ask what do you see presnap that tells you what your first read should be.
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While the open reciver is not going to get a 1st. It is clean he is either passing on the open man or waiting for something else. The part that to me says 6yrds and hope for the 1st with YAC is when he starts scampering. With the OL as it is, running is how to get sacked or gain nothing. Had it been 1st or 2nd he should be throwing it away.

Rewatching the play, Watson has 2 open WRs on the play. He bypassed the first and the second I don't think he saw as he was running about the time he was wide open (he was decently open before). I am going to say the S fooled him. And due to this he thinks the coverage is not what it actually is. Making it an impromptu play vs something in the called play. But, we can only guess as to how he makes or misses D formations prior to the snap.
 
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SnakeEyes said:
I am going to say the S fooled him. And due to this he thinks the coverage is not what it actually is. Making it an impromptu play vs something in the called play. But, we can only guess as to how he makes or misses D formations prior to the snap.
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The better defenses do this. Show you one thing before the snap, then play something completely different after the snap.

This needs to be identified before the game by the offensive assistants who scout our opponents ahead of time & teach their tendencies to the offense as they prepare for the game.

If Watson was “fooled” or unprepared for this, then Carl Smith & his team did a poor job (identifying & teaching) or Watson did a poor job learning.
 
Speedy said:
The entire offense is putrid. No RBs, the middle of the line play like they're on acid, Keke Coutee is your WR1, practice squad dude who hasn't taken a snap since 2017 is your WR2, and an OC that doesn't have a clue. How TF is Watson not tearing up the league with all of that?

When you're on a shitty team you're going to have shitty games from time to time.
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I find it hard to believe it when they say they actually like Watson. It seems as if they truly believe this young man suppose to rise over the crappy hand he was dealt. They know the offensive line is sizzling hot dumpster juice. They know we do not have a running game. They know the OC is stuck on phonics with this OB’s playbook. They also know we do not have a number 1 or 2 receiver out there.

But he they are 1000% accurate.
 
thunderkyss said:
The better defenses do this. Show you one thing before the snap, then play something completely different after the snap.

This needs to be identified before the game by the offensive assistants who scout our opponents ahead of time & teach their tendencies to the offense as they prepare for the game.

If Watson was “fooled” or unprepared for this, then Carl Smith & his team did a poor job (identifying & teaching) or Watson did a poor job learning.
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If he was not fooled, he somehow missed an open TD about the exact time he took off running. The WR got separation as Watson had just started running. I think he bit on the S and in his head made a choice to improv something out of the play call.

Meaning, yes he was not prepared for this situation and the tendency to play zone look and switch it at the last second. Is it on him or the staff?
 
thunderkyss said:
The better defenses do this. Show you one thing before the snap, then play something completely different after the snap.

This needs to be identified before the game by the offensive assistants who scout our opponents ahead of time & teach their tendencies to the offense as they prepare for the game.

If Watson was “fooled” or unprepared for this, then Carl Smith & his team did a poor job (identifying & teaching) or Watson did a poor job learning.
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How do you prepare for an opposing defense when everyone in the Kirby building knows their OL doesn't have a chance in hail of truly protecting Watson?

I guess they could just stand the OL in position during practice, snap the ball, then have the defensive front 7 count; one-thousand one...one....then run past the OL directly at Watson forcing him to find the open man through the arms, avoiding the sack, or knowing he's going to get plowed.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
How do you prepare for an opposing team when everyone in the building knows their OL doesn't have a chance in hail?

I guess they could just stand the OL in position, snap the ball, then have the defensive front 7 count; one-thousand one...one....then run past the OL directly at Watson forcing him to find the open man through the arms, avoiding the sack, or knowing he's going to get plowed.
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Watson rarely stands in the pocket as a rusher comes at him, squares up and throws as he is hit. And throws it to the open reciver. He could have actually hit the open TD had he done so.

You have to do the job and wait for the play to develop. Again, the coaches or Watson is at fault for not being prepared for what happens pre vs post snap.
 
Speedy said:
The entire offense is putrid. No RBs, the middle of the line play like they're on acid, Keke Coutee is your WR1, practice squad dude who hasn't taken a snap since 2017 is your WR2, and an OC that doesn't have a clue. How TF is Watson not tearing up the league with all of that?

When you're on a shitty team you're going to have shitty games from time to time.
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The Texans are second to last in rushing 1st downs. If not for Watson's 25 rushing 1st downs, the Texans would be dead last by a long shot. The Chiefs have 67 rushing 1st downs after subtracting Mahomes' runs. The Ravens have 71 minus Lamar's runs. The Titans have 95. The Seahawks have 68. Without Watson's runs, the Texans have 40.

We all know the running game sucks. But these numbers illustrate how difficult it is to stay on schedule when your RBs have accounted for 16 fewer 1st downs than the 31st ranked team.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
We all know the running game sucks. But these numbers illustrate how difficult it is to stay on schedule when your RBs have accounted for 16 fewer 1st downs than the 31st ranked team.
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What's crazy is that basically the same team was 10th in the league in rushing the year prior. Take away the QB runs, and the Texans averaged 4.5 ypc in 2019. This year? 3.5 ypc. That's a ridiculous drop. OK, 2019 Carlos Hyde was a better runner than 2020 David Johnson. But, 2020 Duke Johnson averaged 1.8 fewer ypc than 2019 Duke Johnson. WTH?
 
So Sean Pendergast said something interesting/depressing this morning.

Apparently in the last decade any team who has had a QB with a passer rating as high as Deshaun's is this season has finished with double digit wins, the vast majority of them 13+ wins. Deshaun's going tto be the only QB in the last 50 years to finish with over 8 YPA and have a record below .500. Only 2 QBs in that time have even finished with a .500 record when averaging over 8 ypa.
 
zshawn10 said:
So Sean Pendergast said something interesting/depressing this morning.

Apparently in the last decade any team who has had a QB with a passer rating as high as Deshaun's is this season has finished with double digit wins, the vast majority of them 13+ wins. Deshaun's going tto be the only QB in the last 50 years to finish with over 8 YPA and have a record below .500. Only 2 QBs in that time have even finished with a .500 record when averaging over 8 ypa.
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Further indictment of the offensive line play. There are times where an O-Line may be unfairly blamed for sacks and what not. But this O-Line allows a ton of QB pressures AND sucks at creating push for the running game. Maybe it's the case that Deshaun and all of the RBs blow, but we see what the common denominator is here.
 
Lucky said:
What's crazy is that basically the same team was 10th in the league in rushing the year prior. Take away the QB runs, and the Texans averaged 4.5 ypc in 2019. This year? 3.5 ypc. That's a ridiculous drop. OK, 2019 Carlos Hyde was a better runner than 2020 David Johnson. But, 2020 Duke Johnson averaged 1.8 fewer ypc than 2019 Duke Johnson. WTH?
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The only difference other than Hyde being replaced by the corpse of David Johnson was the RT spot - Howard only played in 8 games & Clark started 7 , not sure who accounts for the 16th start at RT.
 
This is a great video on how scheme and differences in offensive philosophy can limit even the GOAT QB. TL;DW Brady is accustomed to making short throws and reading his progressions from low to high. Arians wants Brady to make long throws through tight windows and read his progressions from high to low. In New England, Brady used a lot of pre-snap motion to confirm what the defense was. In Tampa Bay, Arians does not like use to use pre-snap motion much, which requires Brady to figure out the defense post-snap, which is hard. Because these are hard throws to make, Brady is throwing more incompletions, which leaves him in a lot of 2nd and 3rd and long situations. Does that sound familiar to anyone?

"Guys aren't schemed open in this system. This is a 'take a shot' offense that doesn't align with Brady's skillset or philosophy."

This destroys the idea that any great QB could be a plug and play player in any system. Who knows what TB12's career would have looked like had he come up through the Arians system--which values cannon-armed QBs--versus the Belichik system. It may also quell some of the "Dump it off like Brady, Watson!!!" talk since not all offensive systems are set up for that.

 
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Another ProBowl for Watson. Imagine how good he’d be if we wasn’t so bad huh. /s

Congrats and well earned

www.espn.com

Chiefs, Pack, Ravens, Hawks lead in Pro Bowlers

Led by their star quarterbacks, the Chiefs, Seahawks and Packers each had seven players selected to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens also had seven players chosen.
www.espn.com www.espn.com


Mahomes is joined in the AFC by quarterbacks Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills and Deshaun Watson of the Houston Texans. For the NFC, it's Rodgers, Seattle's Russell Wilson and Arizona's Kyler Murray.
 
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PapaL said:
Another ProBowl for Watson. Imagine how good he’s be if we wasn’t so bad huh. /s

Congrats and well earned

www.espn.com

Chiefs, Pack, Ravens, Hawks lead in Pro Bowlers

Led by their star quarterbacks, the Chiefs, Seahawks and Packers each had seven players selected to the Pro Bowl. The Ravens also had seven players chosen.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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3 out of his 4 years. Probably would have been 4 for 4 if not for the ACL. Too bad he’s not very good.
 
Lucky said:
What's crazy is that basically the same team was 10th in the league in rushing the year prior. Take away the QB runs, and the Texans averaged 4.5 ypc in 2019. This year? 3.5 ypc. That's a ridiculous drop. OK, 2019 Carlos Hyde was a better runner than 2020 David Johnson. But, 2020 Duke Johnson averaged 1.8 fewer ypc than 2019 Duke Johnson. WTH?
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The OL has regressed heavily this season. And when Devlin is blaming the lack of offseason training, that right there should tell where the problem is.
 
zshawn10 said:
So Sean Pendergast said something interesting/depressing this morning.

Apparently in the last decade any team who has had a QB with a passer rating as high as Deshaun's is this season has finished with double digit wins, the vast majority of them 13+ wins. Deshaun's going tto be the only QB in the last 50 years to finish with over 8 YPA and have a record below .500. Only 2 QBs in that time have even finished with a .500 record when averaging over 8 ypa.
Click to expand...

Maybe the focal point of the organization should be to win games, rather than maximizing Deshaun Watson's personal statistics. Gross passing yardage does not equate to wins; as these 3 garbage team are 3 of the top 5 passing teams in the league:

Texans: 4-10
Falcons: 5-9
Chargers: 5-9

Plus, nobody cares about the antiquated old passer rating statistic anymore. Look at QBR, which Watson is 10th in the league. So citing that in 2020 means nothing. The team is 4-10 with this heroball philosophy.

If this organization wants to win and win big, the new regime will come in and be much less Watson-dependant. Spend time, resources, and make it an organizational philosophy to run the football. Even though it means taking the ball out of Watson's hands (which means less impressive statistics), and becoming more balanced and diversified. Hopefully he'd rather win than to pass for alot of yardage while losing. You can't have it both ways though. You won't be top 5 running and passing.

None of this is even to mention the obvious improvements that need to be made on D.

But a team with a solid D that can at least rush the passer and with a top half rush and pass offense is much more likely to succeed than a below par defense, the worst running game in the league, and a top 5 passing yardage offense.
 
KarlK said:
Maybe the focal point of the organization should be to win games, rather than maximizing Deshaun Watson's personal statistics. Gross passing yardage does not equate to wins; as these 3 garbage team are 3 of the top 5 passing teams in the league:

Texans: 4-10
Falcons: 5-9
Chargers: 5-9

Plus, nobody cares about the antiquated old passer rating statistic anymore. Look at QBR, which Watson is 10th in the league. So citing that in 2020 means nothing. The team is 4-10 with this heroball philosophy.

If this organization wants to win and win big, the new regime will come in and be much less Watson-dependant. Spend time, resources, and make it an organizational philosophy to run the football. Even though it means taking the ball out of Watson's hands (which means less impressive statistics), and becoming more balanced and diversified. Hopefully he'd rather win than to pass for alot of yardage while losing. You can't have it both ways though. You won't be top 5 running and passing.

None of this is even to mention the obvious improvements that need to be made on D.

But a team with a solid D that can at least rush the passer and with a top half rush and pass offense is much more likely to succeed than a below par defense, the worst running game in the league, and a top 5 passing yardage offense.
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Are you saying the Texans had the required personnel to run anything other than their "Watson Hero Ball offense"? Before Chin-Hole got BOI'ed....the offense was better known as "Watson Hero Ball Save O'Brien's Arse" offense. If Watson doesn't do what he does best in 2020.....Texans are easily contemplating their options with the RD1-01-001 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft after a 0-16 season.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Are you saying the Texans had the required personnel to run anything other than their "Watson Hero Ball offense"? Before Chin-Hole got BOI'ed....the offense was better known as "Watson Hero Ball Save O'Brien's Arse" offense. If Watson doesn't do what he does best in 2020.....Texans are easily contemplating their options with the RD1-01-001 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft after a 0-16 season.
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Well, Miami is contemplating that pick, but yeah.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Are you saying the Texans had the required personnel to run anything other than their "Watson Hero Ball offense"? Before Chin-Hole got BOI'ed....the offense was better known as "Watson Hero Ball Save O'Brien's Arse" offense. If Watson doesn't do what he does best in 2020.....Texans are easily contemplating their options with the RD1-01-001 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft after a 0-16 season.
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It's essentially the same offensive personnel from last season that was 9th in rushing yards and 8th in yards per carry. (Swapping Hyde and Johnson) and this year is dead last.

That same OL was also #8 last year in pass block win rate in 2019.
So yes , they had the personnel to run something other than WHB.

What's wrong here isn't necessarily player related - they have been much better in the past.
 
KarlK said:
Maybe the focal point of the organization should be to win games, rather than maximizing Deshaun Watson's personal statistics. Gross passing yardage does not equate to wins; as these 3 garbage team are 3 of the top 5 passing teams in the league:

Texans: 4-10
Falcons: 5-9
Chargers: 5-9

Plus, nobody cares about the antiquated old passer rating statistic anymore. Look at QBR, which Watson is 10th in the league. So citing that in 2020 means nothing. The team is 4-10 with this heroball philosophy.

If this organization wants to win and win big, the new regime will come in and be much less Watson-dependant. Spend time, resources, and make it an organizational philosophy to run the football. Even though it means taking the ball out of Watson's hands (which means less impressive statistics), and becoming more balanced and diversified. Hopefully he'd rather win than to pass for alot of yardage while losing. You can't have it both ways though. You won't be top 5 running and passing.
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Huh? You saying the Texans org is trying to pad watson stats than winning games? How else are we supposed to be competitive this season if the balls not in watsons hand majority of the time?

But I 100% absolutely agree with you on getting a running game to improve the team. I hope they find a gem of a rb in next years draft.

And 10th in QBR in the league is not too shabby I say
 
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KarlK said:
Maybe the focal point of the organization should be to win games, rather than maximizing Deshaun Watson's personal statistics. Gross passing yardage does not equate to wins; as these 3 garbage team are 3 of the top 5 passing teams in the league:

Texans: 4-10
Falcons: 5-9
Chargers: 5-9

Plus, nobody cares about the antiquated old passer rating statistic anymore. Look at QBR, which Watson is 10th in the league. So citing that in 2020 means nothing. The team is 4-10 with this heroball philosophy.

If this organization wants to win and win big, the new regime will come in and be much less Watson-dependant. Spend time, resources, and make it an organizational philosophy to run the football. Even though it means taking the ball out of Watson's hands (which means less impressive statistics), and becoming more balanced and diversified. Hopefully he'd rather win than to pass for alot of yardage while losing. You can't have it both ways though. You won't be top 5 running and passing.

None of this is even to mention the obvious improvements that need to be made on D.

But a team with a solid D that can at least rush the passer and with a top half rush and pass offense is much more likely to succeed than a below par defense, the worst running game in the league, and a top 5 passing yardage offense.
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Yes. Less dependent on one person, a more balanced team. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
 
Decim8 said:
Huh? You saying the Texans org is trying to pad watson stats than winning games? How else are we supposed to be competitive this season if the balls not in watsons hand majority of the time?

But I 100% absolutely agree with you on getting a running game to improve the team. I hope they find a gem of a rb in next years draft.

And 10th in QBR in the league is not too shabby I say
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Bro the length some will go when they don’t like a person. All I can say is unbelievable.


Another great season for Watson indeed unfortunately his team wasn’t up to the challenge this year. Bill O’Brien really screwed these gentlemen badly. Hopefully next season they will get on the right track.
 
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