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Watson’s a top 5 qb. Do you agree?

mws

Waterboy
Not even close.

Do you think he can become like the guys I listed? I think he will have a Moon/McNabb type of career.
Man I would take a McNabb type career in a heartbeat. They had 3 NFC championship games from 2001-2003. Went to the Super Bowl in 2004. Then went back to the NFC championship in 2008. All told they went to the playoffs 9 of 11 years.

This city went completely apesh** when we went to the AFC championship 2 years in row with Bum & the boys. The 'Luv ya Blue' days was the best time I ever had as a football fan in Houston and we lost both years.

I can only imagine what would happen if we went to the AFC championship 3 years in a row & then went to the Super Bowl in the fourth. Even if we lost it would be a hell of a ride.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Steel is more consistent than OB

He was a game away from another SB, meanwhile OB was getting blown out for the 3rd or 4th time. I lost count.
Meant to write "defend O'Brien." I just edited that part.

Funny they're also ignoring the fact that Reid went to the SB and lost to the Dynasty led Pats on their 3rd SB in a close game and last season lost to another Dynasty led Pats where Brady got the ball in OT winning the coin toss.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
And who is it that is supposed to help Watson be more consistent? Coaching. I've mentioned it before, maybe even in this thread, that I'm ok with OB as a head coach. But he has to get a competent OC that can tailor the offense to allow Watson to become more consistent.
We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am not saying your view of Watson is wrong. I'm simply saying Watson would be better with a better offensive coach.
DW4 has had BOB/Godsey/Carl Smith and hasn't made progress. How many more coaches does he need to go through until posters admit DW4 is a big part of the problem?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Man I would take a McNabb type career in a heartbeat. They had 3 NFC championship games from 2001-2003. Went to the Super Bowl in 2004. Then went back to the NFC championship in 2008. All told they went to the playoffs 9 of 11 years.

This city went completely apesh** when we went to the AFC championship 2 years in row with Bum & the boys. The 'Luv ya Blue' days was the best time I ever had as a football fan in Houston and we lost both years.

I can only imagine what would happen if we went to the AFC championship 3 years in a row & then went to the Super Bowl in the fourth. Even if we lost it would be a hell of a ride.
I would rather suck than be subjected to McNabb throwing up on TO"s shoes during the deciding drive in a SB.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Montana started just 8 games his first two years.
Elway threw for 47 TDs and 52 Ints his first 3 years.
Nobody seems to remember Montana throwing 3 INTs and a fumble in an NFC Championship game against the Cowboys. One catch overshadowed all of that reality.

btw, I'm not dogging Montana, I'm a big fan of Joe Cool. But even he made some mistakes. No QB is perfect.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Nobody seems to remember Montana throwing 3 INTs and a fumble in an NFC Championship game against the Cowboys. One catch overshadowed all of that reality.

btw, I'm not dogging Montana, I'm a big fan of Joe Cool. But even he made some mistakes. No QB is perfect.
Never said there's a perfect QB.

Comparing DW4 to Montana.

Simply amazing.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
DW4 has had BOB/Godsey/Carl Smith and hasn't made progress. How many more coaches does he need to go through until posters admit DW4 is a big part of the problem?
Holy hyperbole, Batman! Dude has had ONE head coach, and you're already labeling him with that nonsense?

Dude, come back to earth. We understand if you picked the wrong hill to die on. Nobody cares if you die a martyr for a lost cause. (<----these are metaphors, just to be clear)
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
And who is it that is supposed to help Watson be more consistent? Coaching. I've mentioned it before, maybe even in this thread, that I'm ok with OB as a head coach. But he has to get a competent OC that can tailor the offense to allow Watson to become more consistent.
We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am not saying your view of Watson is wrong. I'm simply saying Watson would be better with a better offensive coach.
This.

If Watson isn’t getting any better since being drafted it’s on the coach because he is supposed to be an offensive guru and quarterback guru.

Nothing is saying it’s between Watson’s ears that is the problem. Or that he is a bad student.

You can’t do better in algebra if the teacher is only to teaching you how to conjugate a verb.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Never said there's a perfect QB.

Comparing DW4 to Montana.

Simply amazing.
Why not?


Look at what Montana was able to accomplish in his early years.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It's my opinion, but look at this season and point out where he's become more consistent over the last 3 seasons.

I'm all eyes
Taking fewer sacks on per pass attempt basis.

Remember, I had stated ahead of the season that because the defense is going to be weaker, Watson will have to take more chances to combat some of the strong offenses the Texans would face. That could lead to more INTs.
And let’s not forget that Watson already has 7 rushing TDs as compared to 5 last year.

Also, the Texans got a lucky win or 2 last year when more things bounced their ways when it matters.
(The Broncos’ game last year could have easily been a loss for example.)
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Holy hyperbole, Batman! Dude has had ONE head coach, and you're already labeling him with that nonsense?

Dude, come back to earth. We understand if you picked the wrong hill to die on. Nobody cares if you die a martyr for a lost cause. (<----these are metaphors, just to be clear)

Dude is sticking to his hate agenda. The same way he lol (laughing out loud) did with Rick. What's crazy, he actually has a few supporters on here backing his stance up.

So for shitz and giggles, let's agree with him, maybe just maybe he would finally see it's Bill Obrien. We're talking about 18 quarterbacks in 6 years. So yeah let's get rid of the one that actually won more games than losses in this system.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Dude is sticking to his hate agenda. The same way he lol (laughing out loud) did with Rick. What's crazy, he actually has a few supporters on here backing his stance up.

So for shitz and giggles, let's agree with him, maybe just maybe he would finally see it's Bill Obrien. We're talking about 18 quarterbacks in 6 years. So yeah let's get rid of the one that actually won more games than losses in this system.
There's a large difference between hating a guy and thinking he cant win a championship. I would love nothing more than to be wrong but I dont see it.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Taking fewer sacks on per pass attempt basis.

Remember, I had stated ahead of the season that because the defense is going to be weaker, Watson will have to take more chances to combat some of the strong offenses the Texans would face. That could lead to more INTs.
And let’s not forget that Watson already has 7 rushing TDs as compared to 5 last year.

Also, the Texans got a lucky win or 2 last year when more things bounced their ways when it matters.
(The Broncos’ game last year could have easily been a loss for example.)
This is a fair post.

You cold also say he's taken less sacks this yr because last yrs OL was putrid and this yrs OL is better although not as good as it should be.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Here's four QB stats for 2018:

102.2
106.1
65.1
94.2
102.6
109.2
108.2
85.8
99.0
70.6
115.4
102.5
112.4
89.9
48.3
133.8

Avg - 97.7 High - 133.8 Low - 48.3

62.9
107.6
98.4
102.8
98.2
61.6
81.8
156.0
125.9
72.9
130.9
102.1
99.3
134.2
114.5
89.5

Avg - 103.1 High - 156.0 Low - 61.6

130.7
97.4
93.5
76.9
108.0
100.4
102.9
89.2
112.1
128.7
94.0
79.8
103.1
68.9
103.7
73.7

Avg - 97.6 High - 128.7 Low - 68.9

97.2
108.1
123.8
158.3
88.2
58.8
127.4
111.0
115.7
113.0
117.1
68.6
19.1
75.9
118.1
121.6

Avg - 101.1 High - 158.3 Low - 19.1


Three of those have been to a Superbowl
Two of those have won a Superbowl
Two of those were in last year's Superbowl
Two have been NFL MVP more than once
The only one that hasn't been to a Superbowl currently sits >15 points higher than both 2018 attendees.

I dont think Watson is the worst QB in the NFL. Some weeks he's the best QB in the league. Other weeks he's in the bottom 1/3 and you cant win a championship that way.
Actually, you can. The last two winners certainly did. That's not an opinion BTW, it's an objective fact.
 

markn

All Pro
Here's four QB stats for 2018:

102.2
106.1
65.1
94.2
102.6
109.2
108.2
85.8
99.0
70.6
115.4
102.5
112.4
89.9
48.3
133.8

Avg - 97.7 High - 133.8 Low - 48.3

62.9
107.6
98.4
102.8
98.2
61.6
81.8
156.0
125.9
72.9
130.9
102.1
99.3
134.2
114.5
89.5

Avg - 103.1 High - 156.0 Low - 61.6

130.7
97.4
93.5
76.9
108.0
100.4
102.9
89.2
112.1
128.7
94.0
79.8
103.1
68.9
103.7
73.7

Avg - 97.6 High - 128.7 Low - 68.9

97.2
108.1
123.8
158.3
88.2
58.8
127.4
111.0
115.7
113.0
117.1
68.6
19.1
75.9
118.1
121.6

Avg - 101.1 High - 158.3 Low - 19.1


Three of those have been to a Superbowl
Two of those have won a Superbowl
Two of those were in last year's Superbowl
Two have been NFL MVP more than once
The only one that hasn't been to a Superbowl currently sits >15 points higher than both 2018 attendees.

Actually, you can. The last two winners certainly did. That's not an opinion BTW, it's an objective fact.
I'm not sure that using facts is an allowable debating tactic.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Metrics

Look at how he's played against top defenses he faced this yr. The only one he's done well against is the Pats, which was shocking to me and what I thought might be a sign of progress. Then we saw last week and I'm thinking he han't really made any progress at all.

He's had a very uneven season and this type of play will never win a championship. But he will continue to look like a HOF'er agaist bad defense. In short DW4 is fools gold. You will see and it doesn't matter who the HC is, unless he learns to step up into the pocket and deliver the ball accurately you can expect more of the same. He will be successful against teams that let him drift to the right and get outside of the pocket. Teams that can keep him in the pocket will continue to see a confused DW4.

Funny hing is Tannehill is currently out playing DW4.
A80

Has DW4 not had an uneven season?

Is Tannehill not playing better than DW4 right now?
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Anyone that compares Deshaun Watson to Vince Young is subconsciously racist. I am not even kidding. They are much different players and human beings.
No way man because that's not who Badboy is and I too can see some similarites between DW4 and VY on the field of play.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
And who is it that is supposed to help Watson be more consistent? Coaching. I've mentioned it before, maybe even in this thread, that I'm ok with OB as a head coach. But he has to get a competent OC that can tailor the offense to allow Watson to become more consistent.
We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am not saying your view of Watson is wrong. I'm simply saying Watson would be better with a better offensive coach.
Well nobody has been able to help him so far.

I suspect a new HC/staff wont be able to help him either. Not that I would have a problem with a new staff HC.

Some guys aren't able to adapt their games and become more consistent others are. I've been castigated because I dont think the Texans can win a SB with Watson at QB. (Hope I'm wrong) But unless he becomes more consistent there will be no SB's on Kirby regardless of who the HC is.

S
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Staubach started only 4 games his first 2 years, and he was already a mature player.

Brady barely played his rookie year, and averaged roughly 200 yards a game his second year (which you may extrapolate to some 250 yards today).
Nothing to write home about; certainly not the TD/INT ratio
By his 3rd yr Staubach won a SB.

By the end of Brady's 2nd yr he was leading his team to a last second GW FG drive in a SB.

Comparing these GOAT's to DW4 isn't just laughable. It's sad. We all wish DW4 was like these guys, but he's not.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
DW4 and Tannehill have played seven common opponents this season. Against these, Tannehill has an average QBR of 55.2, Watson's is 65.1
Have you watched the last month of Titans football? Tannehill has been better.

I was aware of these stats when I posted this. Sometimes numbers lie.
 

markn

All Pro
Have you watched the last month of Titans football? Tannehill has been better.

I was aware of these stats when I posted this. Sometimes numbers lie.
Ah yes, stupid of me using facts. Perhaps you have some alternate facts you'd like to share.

I asked all 32 head coaches whether they'd prefer Watson or Tannehill as their starting QB. 29 said Watson and the other 3 died laughing.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Ah yes, stupid of me using facts. Perhaps you have some alternate facts you'd like to share.

I asked all 32 head coaches whether they'd prefer Watson or Tannehill as their starting QB. 29 said Watson and the other 3 died laughing.
The last month Tannehill has played better and more consistently than DW4 has. Why do you think the Tacks have gone on this winning streak? Since you're a stats guy go back and look at the last months stats and tell me who's been more consistent?

I'm not talking about who will be the better QB in the future, just talking about who's playing more consistently well right now. (2 totally different things, like speaking English and Chinese.
 

markn

All Pro
The last month Tannehill has played better and more consistently than DW4 has. Why do you think the Tacks have gone on this winning streak? Since you're a stats guy go back and look at the last months stats and tell me who's been more consistent?
Yes, I am a stats guy, that's why I ran the numbers with all the available data rather than cherry-picking a time-period to suit my narrative.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Yes, I am a stats guy, that's why I ran the numbers with all the available data rather than cherry-picking a time-period to suit my narrative.
This isn't a narrative, this is about how well the next opponents QB has been playing this month vs the Texans QB and what we can expect on Sunday.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
By his 3rd yr Staubach won a SB.

By the end of Brady's 2nd yr he was leading his team to a last second GW FG drive in a SB.

Comparing these GOAT's to DW4 isn't just laughable. It's sad. We all wish DW4 was like these guys, but he's not.
I love Rodger the Dodger, but he threw all of 211 passes in that 3rd season. Through the same amount of games this year (13), Watson has thrown 436, with a higher completion percentage. (Their rushing yds are surprisingly off by only a single yard, with Watson crushing the TDs 7-2) That's not even taking into account the team Staubach inherited.

Comparing against eras is difficult at best. As much as I may dislike Brady, he's either the GOAT, or in that discussion.

I agree that comparing DW4 to them is laughable, but I suspect my reasons are entirely different.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Common opponents since beginning of November, Watson is even further in front.
bingo. When Tanney lights up a good defense wake me up. Deshaun has LITERALLY beaten the same exact teams Tanney has over his winning streak. (Here is where they will go to the stat card and I can pull up game data and drive summaries!! Yay!)

comparing Tannehil to Watson over what he’s done in 5 weeks is as ludicrous as comparing year 3 WAtSoN and his obstacles to other young QBs in much better WINNING situations in the past. A QB by himself does not win Super Bowls, that’s not how football works.

Ask our friendly Titan fan who visits us who he would rather have over a career.

not knocking Tanney - ive already said I’m a fan and it’s cool to see him succeed, but he’s no Watson. Everything regresses to the mean, and using a journeyman QB who is having the best stretch of his career to diminish Watson is pathetic.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Common opponents since beginning of November, Watson is even further in front.
All I know is DW4 played great against the Jags/Pats and like crap against the Ravens/Broncos. He was lucky not to have the ball turned over against the Colts atleast 3 times.

A model of inconsistency.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Obviously you haven't been watching.

But atleast you've seemed to found humor in trolling me.
I have been watching. I have said it numerous times. Your opinion gets more ridiculous by the week. You had a perception of Watson coming out college that you can't seem to let go. You cherry pick instances to use in your favor to try to validate your opinion, while rejecting sound facts others present to you. I am not going to waste my time doing the same thing only for you to reject it because "your eyes told you something". You are ridiculous and if you didn't post so much I would ignore you. Unfortunately you interact with so many posters that I would miss a lot of things they are discussing if I blocked you. So instead I will just laugh at everything you post.
 

mws

Waterboy
I don't know about you but the Denver game really has me down. So here are some semi-positive stats just to get away from all negative things I could go on & on about.

Here's a way we can try to spin the LWW pattern to a positive going into the Titans game.

In their last 26 regular season games with Watson the Texans have not lost 2 games in row.

Or we could go with:

In games where Watson started the Texans have only lost 2 or more games in a row once. That was at the start of last year before they went on a 9 game winning streak.
 

deucetx

Rookie
Yeah there's a bit of reaching with the Tanny comparison as if it is apples to apples. One has Derrick Henry behind who has 1200+ yards already, 5.0 average per carry and in this whole last month we're going on about here has ran for:

188 yards 8.17 ypc 2tds
159 yards 8.37 ypc 2tds
149 yards 5.73 ypc 1td
103 yards 5.72 ypc 2tds

Let me know when Watson has a guy behind him that can be that type of threat and push the RPO success to such a high threat because teams want to stack the box against him. While Hyde has been surprisingly efficient and Duke (when they bother to utilize him right) neither are the threat Henry is when he touches the ball. That's just a fact of the matter.

With that said, Watson does have some inconsistencies in his game and falls back on tendencies he shouldn't. He will press for the big play too often and sometimes hold the ball as we know. He will bypass the shorter open man seeking his downfield option too. He is also a quarterback in his third year in the league, regarded as one of the top quarterbacks in many circles and has room to grow. Acting as if he has reached his ceiling at this point is asinine. I mean we're over here throwing out Tanny to measure against and how many years was he inconsistent? So even with Watson having some inconsistencies he's still measured as one of the top quarterbacks in the league. I would think after years of Schaub, Banks, Yates, Mallet, Fitzpatrick, Carr, Hoyer, Keenum and Osweiler we could appreciate having a quarterback who is young, still developing yet still a top ten quarterback in the league.

But apparently even little inconsistencies in only his third year are enough to close the door on the chapter. How that makes logical sense I have no clue. I would think he's a five or six year vet with this talk going on the way it is. And acting as if coaching isn't a part of it is also a reach. Put Watson with Andy Reid and you would see even more production. Our offense lacks identity. One week we look one way, the next something totally different. If the offense/playcalling isn't consistent how do you expect players to be so? Not to mention we have no defense. If your defense is constantly stacking the box against you then your offense (i.e. Watson) will feel pressed to do more than he should. It's what playmakers do. Now picture him with a defense that can get him the ball in better field position. One that can hold opponents out of the endzone (especially in the redzone) and that can create turnovers? Do we have that? Not even remotely close...

So no. It's not Watson's current inconsistencies that will hold us back from a title. It takes a team to win. Period. Otherwise Aaron Rodgers would have more than one trophy (a year his defense was top five by the way) and Brees as well (when his defense was a turnover gathering machine). We lack the components in other places and, yes, one side of the ball effects the other. It effects playcalling and the mental state/approach.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
DW4 and Tannehill have played seven common opponents this season. Against these, Tannehill has an average QBR of 55.2, Watson's is 65.1
Imagine we had a dawg like Henry running the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Carlos Hyde did when he was doing it & I appreciate what Duke does given the opportunities.

But nobody game plans for them the way they try to game plan for Henry.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Imagine we had a dawg like Henry running the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate what Carlos Hyde did when he was doing it & I appreciate what Duke does given the opportunities.

But nobody game plans for them the way they try to game plan for Henry.
What's kind of sad is that we could have had Jacobs in the first or maybe one of those RBs in the third. Instead we drafted a tackle that would have probably lasted in to the second round and a TE that hasn't seen the field at all this year.
 

Max

Veteran
If your defense is constantly stacking the box against you then your offense (i.e. Watson) will feel pressed to do more than he should. It's what playmakers do. Now picture him with a defense that can get him the ball in better field position. One that can hold opponents out of the endzone (especially in the redzone) and that can create turnovers? Do we have that? Not even remotely close...
Good point on how our defense is affecting Watson. I think there's certainly been games like last week where the defense put us in a hole and Watson tries to do too much to make up. The flip side to that is that better starts w/ our offense can take pressure off the D or at the very least keep the game from getting lopsided because we're putting up points of our own. W/ our defense the way it is this year, we're not built to grind out wins in low scoring ball games -- especially against the better teams. We need the foot on the offensive gas pedal from the start and these slow starts have really hurt us in a couple of crucial games.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
I hope no one takes this as a personal attack because it is NOT - I like SteelB without him (and the constant replies to him, what would there be - three post a day on this forum?) but I think he has pulled off the longest troll in the history of the internet.

Seriously - he picks what he knows is a controversial position then won't back down no matter what and the forum goes nuts for it. Rick Smith, defending BoB, now on to Watson.

It is not going to matter what proof you bring, the goalpost will move - the narrative will be on point and we will eat it up.

It's the NFL (or really most sports) - you don't have to be Nostradamus to pick your favorite team and proclaim loudly, to anyone that will listen, that they will never win it all until X or with X yada yada - and most of the time you will be proven correct. Most teams every year don't win it all - nobody goes to Vegas to bet on who WON"T win the SB.

He is the man of Steel - and if you think facts are his kryptonite, you are going to have a rough time of it.
 

powda

Founding father of the W.B.
I hope no one takes this as a personal attack because it is NOT - I like SteelB without him (and the constant replies to him, what would there be - three post a day on this forum?) but I think he has pulled off the longest troll in the history of the internet.

Seriously - he picks what he knows is a controversial position then won't back down no matter what and the forum goes nuts for it. Rick Smith, defending BoB, now on to Watson.

It is not going to matter what proof you bring, the goalpost will move - the narrative will be on point and we will eat it up.

It's the NFL (or really most sports) - you don't have to be Nostradamus to pick your favorite team and proclaim loudly, to anyone that will listen, that they will never win it all until X or with X yada yada - and most of the time you will be proven correct. Most teams every year don't win it all - nobody goes to Vegas to bet on who WON"T win the SB.

He is the man of Steel - and if you think facts are his kryptonite, you are going to have a rough time of it.
Lol

I think @steelbtexan will appreciate such a post. Love him or hate him it does spur conversation.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
By his 3rd yr Staubach won a SB.

By the end of Brady's 2nd yr he was leading his team to a last second GW FG drive in a SB.

Comparing these GOAT's to DW4 isn't just laughable. It's sad. We all wish DW4 was like these guys, but he's not.
Like I said, Rogers was already a dinosaur.

But let's get to Brady first.

The Pats had a complete and balanced team that year.
They have a running game, a defense, and a HC.
And a backup QB, without whom, Brady wouldn't have been in the SB to begin with.


Brady didn't play 3 great games to win the SB.
 


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