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badboy

Hall of Fame
I completely understand wanting to sign Jones but here’s my issue:

1) The cost. He is going to command a record breaking DL contract which will eat into the team’s depth. What happens if Jones get injured, which seems to be the Texans luck? Now you are thinner across the board having added that massive contract.

2) Age and accomplishments. He’s won two Super Bowls (could make it three this weekend). And he’s going to be 30 coming into this season. I am weary of signing someone who has accomplished everything a player wants to accomplish to such a large contract. I remember Ed Reed…

I’ve been reading ad nauseum about RB production after age 30 (even though Barkley and Jacobs will be 27/26 when next season begins).

But how many DL provide the type of production that warrants a 100 million dollar plus contract after multiple all pro/Super Bowl campaigns AND switching teams? I suspect the list is quite shorter than the one for RBs… and more expensive.

I would even go so far as to say Barkley/Jacobs/even Henry are more likely to play to the value of their contracts than Chris Jones will.
Will Chris Jones if again winning 🏆 agree to significantly <$30 m to play for Ryans and help take team to where he has been? I think so.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Indeed. Also a matter of allocating resources where the coaching hasn’t caught up.

Ryans defenses have a reputation for maximizing the DL talent on the roster. We saw that this past season with the vets playing at/above expectation and Anderson doing the same. I’m confident they don’t need to spend 100 million plus on Chris Jones and risk losing out on other players and/or Jones not living up to the cost of that contract… very likely btw. How many non QBs are worth a 100 million plus contract?

I’m confident a Ryans defense will have a quality DL. I don’t need to spend 100 million to increase the chance that can happen.

We didn’t see that at RB. Singletary is Mr. Consistent. He played at the level he’s been playing at since he came into the league. But Pierce took a step back. I’m not banking on getting a difference maker in the draft, Pierce stepping up or Singletary being any more than solid. I want the bell cow.
Chris Jones 30 July 3rd. Tunsil 30 August 2nd.

Tunsil begins three year extension avg $25 m and I feel Texans would have extended him easily one more year if not two at that rate. So why again would Texans not give Chris Jones a similar deal?

Tunsil not the best OT but Jones is best DT.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Tend to agree.
For the splash signing, I am leaning Mike Evans.
I would also bring in either Jacobs or Barkley and since we are seriously looking at a run for the Superb Owl, I also try to bring in Stefon Gilmore.
Gilmore is getting on a bit but his production level is still an upgrade and he shouldn't cost too much due to his age and his knowledge and leadership would be invaluable for this secondary.
So you are only wanting one splash signing? We can easily do more than that with this salary cap.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Can you imagine doing this and Bowers fell to say 1-15 where some mocks have him going and trading up for him. If you wanted to go with a cheaper FA WR, Hollywood Brown would make a big difference and save about 10 mil per yr on the cap.

Evans/Barkley/Bowers and draft an OT in say the 4th rd Fisher or Rouse.

An elite offense.
I'm not knocking and every case is different, but have we seen a te drafted 10 to ever work and justify the draft position? Not saying Bowers can't be the 1st, just asking.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Will Chris Jones if again winning 🏆 agree to significantly <$30 m to play for Ryans and help take team to where he has been? I think so.
Yeah, probably wouldn't sign Jones for 30. If it was 4 yrs 100m with 80m guaranteed, probably would do it. Might cost you Nico next year, but I can draft his replacement this year.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The more I think about it, after studying Singletary's stats, age and familiarity with the team and offensive Playbook, seems more of a fit and likelihood for the Texans to extend. Of course, I could see them matching him with Derrick Henry as well as selecting a running back day three in draft.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Yeah, probably wouldn't sign Jones for 30. If it was 4 yrs 100m with 80m guaranteed, probably would do it. Might cost you Nico next year, but I can draft his replacement this year.
I think Caserio can work an agreement in the APY of 25 million with a guarantee similar to what you suggest. It should not affect extending Nico Collins towards the end of this season.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Compensatory picks are the lifeblood of successful franchisees along with more draft picks that hit on the cheap. Stretching $57,394,290 cap space by being selective resigning only key players Jonathon Greenard, Steven Nelson, Dalton Schutz, Blake Cashman and Devin Singletary to team friendly contracts and letting rest test free agency, might just offset a couple upgrades off other rosters (would focus on Ravens defensive free agents). Draft DT, OT, CB, S, RB, LB, to replenish roster.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I think we have seen players who have gone with a team for less money to build that team or to reach a trophy. Not saying that Jones would not get a very good contract. The difference of a 25 million apy compared to a 30 is something I think he would do.
Why wouldn’t he just stay with the Chiefs if he’s gonna take less money?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Compensatory picks are the lifeblood of successful franchisees along with more draft picks that hit on the cheap. Stretching $57,394,290 cap space by being selective resigning only key players Jonathon Greenard, Steven Nelson, Dalton Schutz, Blake Cashman and Devin Singletary to team friendly contracts and letting rest test free agency, might just offset a couple upgrades off other rosters (would focus on Ravens defensive free agents). Draft DT, OT, CB, S, RB, LB, to replenish roster.
I think this will be very close to what actually happens. Which of those six positions do you see taken in round 7? Or do you have a trade down bringing an extra pic into one of the top four rounds?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Could be. Could you make an offer for Pitts? What separates those 2?
Love Pitts too.

He's got 2 yrs left on his rookie deal?

Would offer 1-23 for him.

Look at Theo Johnson and tell me what you think. I like him quite a bit. Good blocker/Hands, but nowhere near the talent level of Bowers/Pitts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Depends on how many of the guys you want to keep already on the roster.
Or if you would rather keep a guy like Rankins at 10 mil per yr, rather than pay Jones 25-30 mil per yr and spend the extra 20 mil on Barkley/Harrison/Sneed? I'm leaning towards the latter.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Love Pitts too.

He's got 2 yrs left on his rookie deal?

Would offer 1-23 for him.

Look at Theo Johnson and tell me what you think. I like him quite a bit. Good blocker/Hands, but nowhere near the talent level of Bowers/Pitts.
Just asking to really comparing, but do we really know the upside of Brevin Jordan? I mean he's one of those guys who really need to stay healthy, but I really like his rac. I mean if they can get their pick at wr in 2nd rd or 1st, might sign Fant and that be my te combo. There are only so many balls to go around. Think about the top 3 te 's in football and think about the best wr on that team.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Or if you would rather keep a guy like Rankins at 10 mil per yr, rather than pay Jones 25-30 mil per yr and spend the extra 20 mil on Barkley/Harrison/Sneed? I'm leaning towards the latter.
Rankins is cool, but Jones is that dude. Jones makes your defense so much better. The des will never have protection turned their direction with Jones sitting there.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Chris Jones 30 July 3rd. Tunsil 30 August 2nd.

Tunsil begins three year extension avg $25 m and I feel Texans would have extended him easily one more year if not two at that rate. So why again would Texans not give Chris Jones a similar deal?

Tunsil not the best OT but Jones is best DT.
Are there any other appealing interior DLinemen besides Jones who will be free agents this upcoming off season ?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Or if you would rather keep a guy like Rankins at 10 mil per yr, rather than pay Jones 25-30 mil per yr and spend the extra 20 mil on Barkley/Harrison/Sneed? I'm leaning towards the latter.
if cap space was an issue I would agree. You sort of surprised me as you're always discussing pinching of pennies?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Just asking to really comparing, but do we really know the upside of Brevin Jordan? I mean he's one of those guys who really need to stay healthy, but I really like his rac. I mean if they can get their pick at wr in 2nd rd or 1st, might sign Fant and that be my te combo. There are only so many balls to go around. Think about the top 3 te 's in football and think about the best wr on that team.
I want more balls being tossed to wide receivers than tight ends and one of the reasons I suggested allowing Jordan to be our running back as well as occasional tight end.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Are there any other appealing interior DLinemen besides Jones who will be free agents this upcoming off season ?
DTs Wilkins and Rankins and could argue that you could get both for the price of Jones. Again for me, there are elite players and then there is a lower level of really good players. Jones is in the elite and in my opinion there is not a really good player that comes close. For me it would be like going down two levels with someone like Wilkins although I know that will create controversy. DJ Reader could be lumped in for about 5 million APY but I see him primarily as a nose tackle.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just asking to really comparing, but do we really know the upside of Brevin Jordan? I mean he's one of those guys who really need to stay healthy, but I really like his rac. I mean if they can get their pick at wr in 2nd rd or 1st, might sign Fant and that be my te combo. There are only so many balls to go around. Think about the top 3 te 's in football and think about the best wr on that team.
I'm not really a fan of Jordan as a TE. His blocking as a TE leaves a lot to be desired. However I believe he's got potential to be really good in a Jucyck (SP?) role. I dont deny Jordan has a lot of talent, but I also worry about his injury history.

As far as roles go there's always roles for great TE/ WR's in a WCO. Look at the 49ers with Aiyuk/Deebo/Kittle, and they still find a way to get McCaffrey his touches.

Look at the Texans with AJ/Hopkins/Daniels and Foster.

I dont worry about touches, add the talent and figure it out is the way I see it.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
DTs Wilkins and Rankins and could argue that you could get both for the price of Jones. Again for me, there are elite players and then there is a lower level of really good players. Jones is in the elite and in my opinion there is not a really good player that comes close. For me it would be like going down two levels with someone like Wilkins although I know that will create controversy. DJ Reader could be lumped in for about 5 million APY but I see him primarily as a nose tackle.
Wilkins is gonna get at least 20 if not more especially based on his age and productivity. His run stop % tops and he's a 3 down guy
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
If I could get the FA's I listed then I would go with the DT's they had last yr and take a shot with a guy like Mason Smith or Wingo in the 3rd/4th rd.
If they draft Smith,Ryans must really see getting him to form. This last year, he didn't play well at all. He played way too high and couldn't get off blocks. If you want to draft him and bring back Rankins, that make sense.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
if cap space was an issue I would agree. You sort of surprised me as you're always discussing pinching of pennies?
Nope, I just think being able to add guys like Barkley/Harrison/Samuels/Al-Shaair/Sneed and being able to keep Rankins/Schultz/Cashman etc... outweighs adding Jones. Like I said if Caserio was to go this direction he could add the best RT available and draft guys like Mason Smith and/or Wingo to hopefully improve the DL as well as adding an edge/TE.

1-23 Chop/Darius Robinson PSU/Mizz
2-59 Kinchens S Mia
3-85 Theo Johnson TE PSU
4. Wingo DT LSU
4. Malik Washington WR Virginia

Defense

Edge- WA/Robinson/Barnett/Sanders/Horton
DT- Rankins/Collins/Tart/Wingo/Davis/Hinish
LB's- Cashman/Al-Shaair/Harris/Too Too/Hansen/Hewitt
CB's- Stingley/Sneed/Petrie (I want him at nickle) King/Hollman/Late rd draft pick/Ross
S - Harrison/Kinchens/Ward/Houston- Carson/

Offense

QB Stroud/Mills/Dalton
RB's Barkley/Pierce/Late rd pick/ O
FB/H-Back- Hairston/Jordan
TE's Schultz/Johnson/Saubert/Jordan
WR's Collins/Dell/Washington/Metchie/Hutch/Sims
OT's Tunsil/Jones/Howard/ Trade during TC for a Jones type OT if Howard isn't ready.
OG Green's/ Mason/Juice/Broeker
C Patterson/Juice/Deiter

This is a team that you can win with. After watching Malik Washington he's awesome. I would trade up into the 3rd for him. Guy can play.

The only real weakness is at RT. IMHO and if Howard can make it back and be avg that issue is solved.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If they draft Smith,Ryans must really see getting him to form. This last year, he didn't play well at all. He played way too high and couldn't get off blocks. If you want to draft him and bring back Rankins, that make sense.
Wingo looked really good before he got hurt last yr. Guy's fast off of the ball and plays with good leverage. The LSU defense really fell off after he got hurt.
 

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
DTs Wilkins and Rankins and could argue that you could get both for the price of Jones. Again for me, there are elite players and then there is a lower level of really good players. Jones is in the elite and in my opinion there is not a really good player that comes close. For me it would be like going down two levels with someone like Wilkins although I know that will create controversy. DJ Reader could be lumped in for about 5 million APY but I see him primarily as a nose tackle.
Meh, two for one is good for us as a rebuilding team right now. So many weak spots so even a minor upgrade at any position is a good thing - the more the better. This approach also allows for more players which equals depth not to mention taking pressure off the draft.
Plus we have to consider the Demeco factor - bringing out the best in guys.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Meh, two for one is good for us as a rebuilding team right now. So many weak spots so even a minor upgrade at any position is a good thing - the more the better. This approach also allows for more players which equals depth not to mention taking pressure off the draft.
Plus we have to consider the Demeco factor - bringing out the best in guys.
I would take a shot on Reader making it back from injury at 5 mil APY.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But Wilkins is :kitten:
Football means something to him. He went back to Clemson for his Sr. yr to win National Championship, when he could've been a high draft pick. He also practices regularly. Unlike Derrick/Hopkins etc... He and Reader are outliers.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
Football means something to him. He went back to Clemson for his Sr. yr to win National Championship, when he could've been a high draft pick. He also practices regularly. Unlike Derrick/Hopkins etc... He and Reader are outliers.
Or Derrick/Hopkins are outliers
 
I'm not really a fan of Jordan as a TE. His blocking as a TE leaves a lot to be desired. However I believe he's got potential to be really good in a Jucyck (SP?) role. I dont deny Jordan has a lot of talent, but I also worry about his injury history.

As far as roles go there's always roles for great TE/ WR's in a WCO. Look at the 49ers with Aiyuk/Deebo/Kittle, and they still find a way to get McCaffrey his touches.

Look at the Texans with AJ/Hopkins/Daniels and Foster.

I dont worry about touches, add the talent and figure it out is the way I see it.
Id like to see Brevin Jordan take Beck's spot...with his size and his wheels he could flourish and use in double TE sets if needed. Especially if he works on his blocking this off season.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Wingo looked really good before he got hurt last yr. Guy's fast off of the ball and plays with good leverage. The LSU defense really fell off after he got hurt.
I can see a scenario to draft Wingo as Collins replacement in a year or so. Wingo is a 3 tech. I mean you can sell me on Wingo and Smith in the 3rd and 4th rd .
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just asking to really comparing, but do we really know the upside of Brevin Jordan? I mean he's one of those guys who really need to stay healthy, but I really like his rac. I mean if they
Or Derrick/Hopkins are outliers
😂

I'm glad you look at it like this.

Once bitten twice shy baby., This franchise has worked hard to build a new culture now people want to take a chance on ruining what has been rebuilt? Pass.

This doesn't mean I wouldn't add a FA from Clemson after they've proven themselves on and off the field, or draft a guy in the late rds like Reader.
 


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