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Training Camp Live: AJ left practice

None of this would be that big of an issue if our GM that hates free agency hadn't ignored the huge need at WR that we've had for the last 3 seasons. We have failed to address the problem and anyone who isn't brain dead knows exactly how bad this offense turns once AJ isn't out there anymore.

This may not be a big deal, but it also could be. WHo knows at this point, but this kind of thing just keeps on happening to AJ, and this franchise keeps on ignoring the glaring need we have at WR. Anyone thinking that KW is a legit #2 WR in this league needs their head examined.
 
None of this would be that big of an issue if our GM that hates free agency hadn't ignored the huge need at WR that we've had for the last 3 seasons. We have failed to address the problem and anyone who isn't brain dead knows exactly how bad this offense turns once AJ isn't out there anymore.

This may not be a big deal, but it also could be. WHo knows at this point, but this kind of thing just keeps on happening to AJ, and this franchise keeps on ignoring the glaring need we have at WR. Anyone thinking that KW is a legit #2 WR in this league needs their head examined.

Well at least our jobs are not on the line if this team regresses this year. Oh wait, these guys got a new contract this year.
 
None of this would be that big of an issue if our GM that hates free agency hadn't ignored the huge need at WR that we've had for the last 3 seasons. We have failed to address the problem and anyone who isn't brain dead knows exactly how bad this offense turns once AJ isn't out there anymore.

This may not be a big deal, but it also could be. WHo knows at this point, but this kind of thing just keeps on happening to AJ, and this franchise keeps on ignoring the glaring need we have at WR. Anyone thinking that KW is a legit #2 WR in this league needs their head examined.

Not really fair TBH. I remember no AJ and us still easily scoring at will, we were still destroying defenses.... Drumroll..... Until schaub went down. I do agree we need another WR but our O was still good last season with schaub as QB and no AJ
 
AJ's gonna have to take a pay cut so we can trade or sign someone decent if he wants a ring. The guy deserves his pay from the years we sucked (I think he sacrificed his body over the years the way he played the game), but if its more about the ring than the check something has to give.

AJ is the best Texan to ever wear the jersey in my opinion, and I want him to retire as a Texan, but there needs to be more production per dollar. When he's healthy he is still the best (agaim in my opinion), but he hasn't been completely healthy the last couple of years.
 
None of this would be that big of an issue if our GM that hates free agency hadn't ignored the huge need at WR that we've had for the last 3 seasons. We have failed to address the problem and anyone who isn't brain dead knows exactly how bad this offense turns once AJ isn't out there anymore.

This may not be a big deal, but it also could be. WHo knows at this point, but this kind of thing just keeps on happening to AJ, and this franchise keeps on ignoring the glaring need we have at WR. Anyone thinking that KW is a legit #2 WR in this league needs their head examined.

Cant address every need in one or two drafts.

We had a sucky defense that needed to be built up properly. They've tried to do that--via the previous d-coord, and failed--so they went back to the well with Wade Phillips (and he succeeded).

This draft, Kubiak went after some WR talent. Again, the Texans felt the best option in round 1 was a guy for Wade's defense. I suppose they didn't feel there was a potential Second Coming of Andre Johnson in round 1 to be had at our position in round 1...so they went defense because a guy was there whom Wade and Rick didn't think would still be there.

I get the frustration. I do. But in all fairness, this offense has a better shot at winning without guys like Schaub/AJ than other AFC South teams have with all of their starters out there. We're riding a crest of a wave that has taken a awhile to build, and other teams are sort of trying to find their identities and are struggling a bit.

My best-case scenario is to let AJ play out the next two years, then go after a better/younger WR1 in free agency that can be paid AJ'ish money. Though I seriously doubt McNair is going to EVER let AJ walk away from us. It's a damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't situation, IMO.
 
My best-case scenario is to let AJ play out the next two years, then go after a better/younger WR1 in free agency that can be paid AJ'ish money. Though I seriously doubt McNair is going to EVER let AJ walk away from us. It's a damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't situation, IMO.

What I'm expecting is that we have AJ in spots and we've got to hope we've got him at his best at the right times. But I don't expect any more full seasons from him. I don't expect him to be our down-in and down-out #1 target anymore.

Whether McNair is going to allow Rick to ditch AJ is the question. I don't know if he will. I hope AJ gets to play out the rest of his career here and I hope he continues to shine when he gets his opportunity.

But I think we've got to find someone to be the real main #1 threat soon and the way we've drafted and went about free agency, we're gambling on it being in this crop of young receivers. I hope that pans out but if we're drafting WR in the first round next year, it's not going to be good.
 
Fact,

Gary/Rick let AJ play on a bad hamstring last yr to save their jobs and now those chickens are coming home to roost.
 
Fact,

Gary/Rick let AJ play on a bad hamstring last yr to save their jobs and now those chickens are coming home to roost.

This is the same AJ whose helmet they had to hide to keep him off the field against the Niners a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was AJ who gave the medical staff bad information about how hurt he was because he thought he could play through it.
 
This is the same AJ whose helmet they had to hide to keep him off the field against the Niners a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was AJ who gave the medical staff bad information about how hurt he was because he thought he could play through it.



Im sorry but if you are a coach or manager and resort to such childish acts to get your employees to comply with what you want you are piss poor at your job.
 
Im sorry but if you are a coach or manager and resort to such childish acts to get your employees to comply with what you want you are piss poor at your job.

Not so! These are GROWN men we're talking about, not "kids!" At some point in time these GROWN men need to act like it and not expect their coach or manager to be their babysitter.
 
Im sorry but if you are a coach or manager and resort to such childish acts to get your employees to comply with what you want you are piss poor at your job.

There are good, SB winning coaches who've had their big-name players go back onto the field against their wishes. I believe it's happened to Holmgren with Farve and I know it happened to George Allen with Billy Kilmer and I think I recall it happening to Coach Gibbs with Doug Williams. I'm not positive but I think I recall it happening to Chuck Noll with one of those guys on the Steel Curtain.

It's really easy for a starter to insert himself back into the lineup. He just has to run out there and tell one of the other guys to get off the field.
 
There are good, SB winning coaches who've had their big-name players go back onto the field against their wishes. I believe it's happened to Holmgren with Farve and I know it happened to George Allen with Billy Kilmer and I think I recall it happening to Coach Gibbs with Doug Williams. I'm not positive but I think I recall it happening to Chuck Noll with one of those guys on the Steel Curtain.

It's really easy for a starter to insert himself back into the lineup. He just has to run out there and tell one of the other guys to get off the field.

And no third string receiver is going to say no to Andre.
 
There are good, SB winning coaches who've had their big-name players go back onto the field against their wishes. I believe it's happened to Holmgren with Farve and I know it happened to George Allen with Billy Kilmer and I think I recall it happening to Coach Gibbs with Doug Williams. I'm not positive but I think I recall it happening to Chuck Noll with one of those guys on the Steel Curtain.

It's really easy for a starter to insert himself back into the lineup. He just has to run out there and tell one of the other guys to get off the field.

Yup. Staubach went onto the field several times against Landry's wishes as well.

In general those players were admired for their grit but apparently they all just had poor coaches.

Coaches don't have time for prolonged arguments in the middle of the game and as you say nobody is stopping a star from just running onto the field.
 
I love it all. I trained under Ben Pryne and Lou Faralan up in the NW and when I moved down here trained with Sam Hogar with MFS until Miletich and Hogar split. So a healthy mix of traditional BJJ and catch wrestling with a lot of Muay Thai focus. Spent some time with the Washington state freestyle wrestling team, went up to Surrey BC, down to Seattle, all over. Even trained at the old team quest in Biersch Oregon a few times.

Got quite a few stories, we'll chat all about it at the game Mikey.

Nate


If you know Sam Hoger, then you probably know Paige, aka Posh, who dated Sam for a short while, and spent some time at Miletich?
 
I love it all. I trained under Ben Pryne and Lou Faralan up in the NW and when I moved down here trained with Sam Hogar with MFS until Miletich and Hogar split. So a healthy mix of traditional BJJ and catch wrestling with a lot of Muay Thai focus. Spent some time with the Washington state freestyle wrestling team, went up to Surrey BC, down to Seattle, all over. Even trained at the old team quest in Biersch Oregon a few times.

Got quite a few stories, we'll chat all about it at the game Mikey.

Nate
I've had my kid train in the Muay Thai style. Mix in a little grappling and some core strength and he is just about ready to turn the tables on me and whip my butt soon. I'm right at that point where I'm not sure I want to find out where he's at since I know good and well where I'm at now that I'm 48 and he's 6' 220.
 
I've had my kid train in the Muay Thai style. Mix in a little grappling and some core strength and he is just about ready to turn the tables on me and whip my butt soon. I'm right at that point where I'm not sure I want to find out where he's at since I know good and well where I'm at now that I'm 48 and he's 6' 220.

Sounds to me like you already have a good idea how that would shake out. LOL
 
Not so! These are GROWN men we're talking about, not "kids!" At some point in time these GROWN men need to act like it and not expect their coach or manager to be their babysitter.



I know they arent kids and thats exactly why you shouldnt have to resort to hiding player equipment
 
Yup. Staubach went onto the field several times against Landry's wishes as well.

In general those players were admired for their grit but apparently they all just had poor coaches.

Coaches don't have time for prolonged arguments in the middle of the game and as you say nobody is stopping a star from just running onto the field.



Piss poor in handling the situation or having the control you should have running a team. If a player is doing something against what you have expressed the excuse shouldnt be well he just did it anyways and its dre
 
Piss poor in handling the situation or having the control you should have running a team. If a player is doing something against what you have expressed the excuse shouldnt be well he just did it anyways and its dre

Uh, no.

Coach is watching the field, not trying to keep tabs on if #80 is complying with the trainer's advice and coach's decision that he (AJ) remain off the field.

I'd be MORE pissed if our coach was not watching the game on the field. He doesn't need to be babysitting players...he's got 53 grown ass men and can't watch em all at once.

So if #80 finds a way to sneak onto the field when he shouldn't be out there...then that's on #80 and on #80 alone.
 
Uh, no.

Coach is watching the field, not trying to keep tabs on if #80 is complying with the trainer's advice and coach's decision that he (AJ) remain off the field.

I'd be MORE pissed if our coach was not watching the game on the field. He doesn't need to be babysitting players...he's got 53 grown ass men and can't watch em all at once.

So if #80 finds a way to sneak onto the field when he shouldn't be out there...then that's on #80 and on #80 alone.



Would it be more appeasing if I said the entire coaching staff? If a coach tells you to sit and you dont then they have lost control of their job, sure the player is at fault as well but in the end what happens on the field/sidelines lands squarely on the coaches' shoulders
 
Would it be more appeasing if I said the entire coaching staff? If a coach tells you to sit and you dont then they have lost control of their job, sure the player is at fault as well but in the end what happens on the field/sidelines lands squarely on the coaches' shoulders

Let me ask you this...... and I see where you're coming from somewhat. But when Peyton Manning or Tom Brady have waived off Tony Dungy and Bill Belichick on 4th down when they've sent the punt of field goal teams on the field did you ever feel like they weren't in control?
 
I don't believe a number two receiver is as big as a concern as some are making it out to be. Sure, it would be nice to have someone but we still have Owen Daniels and Arian Foster to throw to and Ben Tate can carry the ball. Then there is Kevin Walter, James Casey, and Ben Tate to fill in on receiving. Well, maybe not Ben Tate. (Still disappointed about the New Orleans game,) This team is made to run the ball with Foster and Tate, too. This team is stacked on offense without a better WR2.

I would rather have Andre play half the game like the Spurs did this year with Tim Duncan. Not all sports are the same, but the strategy could still work. Let the rookies play and learn and let Andre rest more than usual in the game. In my opinion we need to pull our starters in the middle of the fourth more often when we have a lead and control of the game. No sense to have Schaub, Andre and Arian out there when we could have Yates, Walter, and Tate playing. Only in ideal situations of course - disclaimer.
 
Uh, no.

Coach is watching the field, not trying to keep tabs on if #80 is complying with the trainer's advice and coach's decision that he (AJ) remain off the field.

I'd be MORE pissed if our coach was not watching the game on the field. He doesn't need to be babysitting players...he's got 53 grown ass men and can't watch em all at once.

So if #80 finds a way to sneak onto the field when he shouldn't be out there...then that's on #80 and on #80 alone.

I don't know if this is the real reason. If you''ve ever leD men into battle you know how tricky it is. You have to skirt a moving line between self sacrifice and self preservation. One minute you're telling them to give you everything they've got, to not accept failure, to not stop until the job is done. To think of the team, don't let your friends down.

Then the next minute you're telling him to put ice on his boo-boo.

The problem is just S bad in football especially with QBs.


That's why we love this game. Sports in general. Remember when Jordan played while suffering from pneumonia? Leftwhich being carried down the field by his teammates?

Men's men
 
Cant address every need in one or two drafts.

We had a sucky defense that needed to be built up properly. They've tried to do that--via the previous d-coord, and failed--so they went back to the well with Wade Phillips (and he succeeded).

This draft, Kubiak went after some WR talent. Again, the Texans felt the best option in round 1 was a guy for Wade's defense. I suppose they didn't feel there was a potential Second Coming of Andre Johnson in round 1 to be had at our position in round 1...so they went defense because a guy was there whom Wade and Rick didn't think would still be there.

I get the frustration. I do. But in all fairness, this offense has a better shot at winning without guys like Schaub/AJ than other AFC South teams have with all of their starters out there. We're riding a crest of a wave that has taken a awhile to build, and other teams are sort of trying to find their identities and are struggling a bit.

My best-case scenario is to let AJ play out the next two years, then go after a better/younger WR1 in free agency that can be paid AJ'ish money. Though I seriously doubt McNair is going to EVER let AJ walk away from us. It's a damned-if-we-do, damned-if-we-don't situation, IMO.


There have been plenty of talented WR's in free agency and up for trades that we could have had a crack at and helped this team's WR core. I'm really sick and tired of the constant excuses for Smithiak and their lack of desire to improve this team's WR core. Walter should have been replaced years ago. Jacoby JOnes shouldn't have ever gotten that extension. Maybe you and a few others can sit here and keep making excuses for this on SMith's behalf, but I've been calling for them to make moves on several guys at the WR position for like 3 years now. This isn't something I'm stringing up out of thin air right now, because AJ got hurt again. This has been an ongoing problem that hasn't been addressed accordingly. Some of you forget that Yates has a very strong chance of having to play this season and Yates will need weapons to utilize as he isn't that good to begin with. You guys keep forgetting the that the Texans have a window to WIN NOW. This is their window. Windows for teams to win a SB in the NFL close very quickly, and not getting another play making WR is going to haunt this team down the line. When your team is in position to make a real SB run, you make those moves to put your team over the top. WR isn't a want, it's a NEED.
 
Would it be more appeasing if I said the entire coaching staff? If a coach tells you to sit and you dont then they have lost control of their job, sure the player is at fault as well but in the end what happens on the field/sidelines lands squarely on the coaches' shoulders

Refresh my memory on something:

When did AJ ever go onto the field last year when he shouldn't have? Or in years before? You act like he hopped on one leg and was a detriment to our team.

If a guy feels he's good to go, he feels he's not 100% but yet he feels good enough to get out there and try, is he supposed to stop? This mentality you're displaying is puzzling. Let's just all follow orders and sit on our asses because someone said so.

This isn't junior high football. Gary Effing Kubiak is going to have a hard time enforcing sit downs on a guy like AJ. Get that through your head--It isn't about following orders, it's about gutting it out and helping if you think you can help. Sometimes I really wonder...

Read the other posters here. You'd think at least one person feels the same way you do. Well, I take it back. One does, but he's an avowed Smithiak hater. So you've got one on your side. Everyone else is diametrically opposed to your stance. Sometimes, the majority is right. This is one of those times.
 
There have been plenty of talented WR's in free agency and up for trades that we could have had a crack at and helped this team's WR core. I'm really sick and tired of the constant excuses for Smithiak and their lack of desire to improve this team's WR core. Walter should have been replaced years ago. Jacoby JOnes shouldn't have ever gotten that extension. Maybe you and a few others can sit here and keep making excuses for this on SMith's behalf, but I've been calling for them to make moves on several guys at the WR position for like 3 years now. This isn't something I'm stringing up out of thin air right now, because AJ got hurt again. This has been an ongoing problem that hasn't been addressed accordingly. Some of you forget that Yates has a very strong chance of having to play this season and Yates will need weapons to utilize as he isn't that good to begin with. You guys keep forgetting the that the Texans have a window to WIN NOW. This is their window. Windows for teams to win a SB in the NFL close very quickly, and not getting another play making WR is going to haunt this team down the line. When your team is in position to make a real SB run, you make those moves to put your team over the top. WR isn't a want, it's a NEED.

Well, we all sort of had a hissy fit when Bob didn't fire Gary Kubiak.

He hired Wade Phillips instead and gave new life to Gary Kubiak.

You and I both were pissed off. At some point, though, for me it was after the draft...I decided that Wade as DC and Kubiak as HC would work better for everything and everyone.

We know how that turned out: AFC South crown and playoff win at home.

I will step out in a limb and say that we struck gold with Posey and Martin. It's going to be the offensive version of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed. Two guys who find their way into the field and really contribute.

I'm more worried about QB than any other position. WR is my next worry, but I believe Posey-Martin-Jean will shock some people.
 
Refresh my memory on something:

When did AJ ever go onto the field last year when he shouldn't have? Or in years before? You act like he hopped on one leg and was a detriment to our team...


WEEK 07 / 2009
San Francisco 49ers
Sun, 10/25 at 12:00 PM CDT
WIN: 24 - 21


Johnson was injured when he caught a 44-yard pass on what proved to be the winning field-goal drive. He fell on the ball, coughed up blood and went to the sideline.

Johnson returned briefly, but when he tried to return a second time, some members of the team’s medical staff hid his helmet to keep him on the sideline rather than risk further injury.

Link


Coughing up blood and returned to the game, that's all heart!
 
WEEK 07 / 2009
San Francisco 49ers
Sun, 10/25 at 12:00 PM CDT
WIN: 24 - 21




Link


Coughing up blood and returned to the game, that's all heart!

Thank you for posting that. I knew it was something small. It wasn't like he had a slipped disk, a broken back, etc.

We talk about guys like Brisiel playing on a freaking broken/fractured leg through what, something like half the game or something? Caldwell had a high ankle sprain on the right AND the left ankle and he sucked it up and played when Brisiel went down for a few games. This stuff happens all the time. Guys get banged up.

I understands they want to take precautions with a guy like AJ, but he was having none of it. AJ is a smart man. But he's also a beast of nature. If he can play, he wants to play. And if his play is not holding the team back, he's going to find a way to get onto the field.

It's admirable, it's not a coach's fault, it's just the way it is.

When I was a steer wrestler back in the late 1990s, I had played in a softball game during the week and got hit in the head by the short stop who winged it and beaned me in the temple as I touched first base...I had a bad concussion. Couldn't finish WORDS, let alone sentences. Couldn't type even an easy word like "that" without stopping after the "t" and "h" and trying to figure out what letter comes next.

I went to a rodeo that next weekend, since I had already paid the entry fee for it, and when I bailed off the horse to grab the steer's horns I ended up bailing wayyyyyyy early. I rolled like a tumbleweed. I couldn't believe it. I just knew I had done everything right. But the concussion had messed with my depth perception THAT badly. I just laughed it off. Yeah, I could have gotten hurt pretty badly, and I shouldn't have competed, but it was second nature. Been rodeo'ing since I was 5. FIVE. No way was I going to stay at home and just forfeit the entry fee.

It's second nature. It's what you do. I know that doesn't compare to what AJ did, but still...the guy can run onto the field if he feels fit. Nobody knows his body's capabilities like he does. And it's not a coach's responsibility to enforce something that a guy like AJ is going to laugh off and pretend he didn't hear it anyways. Such is life. Kubiak can't watch field goal attempts, let alone every player who might try to get back onto the field.
 
Well, we all sort of had a hissy fit when Bob didn't fire Gary Kubiak.

He hired Wade Phillips instead and gave new life to Gary Kubiak.

You and I both were pissed off. At some point, though, for me it was after the draft...I decided that Wade as DC and Kubiak as HC would work better for everything and everyone.

We know how that turned out: AFC South crown and playoff win at home.

I will step out in a limb and say that we struck gold with Posey and Martin. It's going to be the offensive version of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed. Two guys who find their way into the field and really contribute.

I'm more worried about QB than any other position. WR is my next worry, but I believe Posey-Martin-Jean will shock some people.

What makes you think Posey/Martin will shock the world? Have you sen them play in college? Martin has more of a chance to make an impact as a slot WR than Posey does. IMHO

I'm not a Gary hater, in fact I really like Gary as a man. I just think he's in over his head as a HC. Hopefully the conservative Gary will be a hing of the past. But if Schaub/AJ aren't able to play more than 10 games then I dont expect Gary to change. Nor would I blame him if he's missing his horses.

But, with this yrs schedule things dont bode well for the team if Gary plays it conservative. IMHO
 
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If you know Sam Hoger, then you probably know Paige, aka Posh, who dated Sam for a short while, and spent some time at Miletich?


I hate to derail the thread too much, but no, but I don't recall him dating anyone by that name. We only hung out a few times outside of work at the Mezzanine and trendier clubs down in the Village. I'm not really a club guy and was pretty dedicated to training so I tried to stay out of that lifestyle. Hoger didn't drink but I just didn't want the temptation. He actually texted me last weekend for the fights.

Now a few guys I actually remember, Tim Buchanon, Mike Miller, a few others. Everyone called me "guns", name might ring a bell if you fought out of that camp.
 
I hate to derail the thread too much, but no, but I don't recall him dating anyone by that name. We only hung out a few times outside of work at the Mezzanine and trendier clubs down in the Village. I'm not really a club guy and was pretty dedicated to training so I tried to stay out of that lifestyle. Hoger didn't drink but I just didn't want the temptation. He actually texted me last weekend for the fights.

Now a few guys I actually remember, Tim Buchanon, Mike Miller, a few others. Everyone called me "guns", name might ring a bell if you fought out of that camp.

No, I never fought. Posh is my sister. If you've been to any local MMA events, you probably met her or at least saw her. She was the promoter for a fight at Hofeinz Pavilion back in '09 I think. And a MMA expo in the Woodlands in '10. Me and her were out of contact when the expo was supposed to occur. I'm not 100% sure it actually made it out of the planning stage.
 
Let me ask you this...... and I see where you're coming from somewhat. But when Peyton Manning or Tom Brady have waived off Tony Dungy and Bill Belichick on 4th down when they've sent the punt of field goal teams on the field did you ever feel like they weren't in control?



I certainly think there is a lack of total control on who makes the final call in situations like that but one that certain teams allow for play calling and what not. It is a very similar issue but slightly different when players health comes into question. If a player is hurt and you or any staff member tells them to sit thats should be what happens. At the end of the day if that player still runs out on the field the end result is on the coaching staff. Colt's situation last year is a prime yet exaggerated example imo
 
What makes you think Posey/Martin will shock the world? Have you sen them play in college? Martin has more of a chance to make an impact as a slot WR than Posey does. IMHO

I'm not a Gary hater, in fact I really like Gary as a man. I just think he's in over his head as a HC. Hopefully the conservative Gary will be a hing of the past. But if Schaub/AJ aren't able to play more than 10 games then I dont expect Gary to change. Nor would I blame him if he's missing his horses.

But, with this yrs schedule things dont bode well for the team if Gary plays it conservative. IMHO

What makes you think they WON'T???

They gave Okoye time. They gave Jacoby time. And both were cut. Kubiak is done with project picks. He chose two guys (Posey and Martin) who were solid WRs from legitimate NCAA programs, and I think they'll shock a lot of people.

Past failures do not always equate to future failures being a sure thing.

The early reports are that Martin and Posey are making great catches and are not failing. At this stage, with rookie WRs, that's an incredibly good sign.

How many times did we hear Amobi was not being his man, or Jacoby was bobbling passes in camp?
 
I'm more worried about QB than any other position. WR is my next worry, but I believe Posey-Martin-Jean will shock some people.

Fair enough, but what on earth is leading you to think this way?? What have these guys done to give you this kind of confidence in them? Striking gold? I'm having a hard time even seeing either one of these guys panning out. If these two were drafted by the Jags would you see it that way? I'm just curious, because it just seems like some optimism without reasoning which is fine and all, but I'm just not understanding it. If I felt that way, than I'd probably agree with you, but I can't figure out what is leading you to think that both guys are going to be these steals of the draft and the future of our receiving core without at least seeing these guys play in 8 games of the regular season. I've seen a ton of pre season warriors even where folks get all excited only for big let downs. Jacoby Jones was a huge one that I even bought into at the time.
 
I take it none of you have pulled your groin before. Heck I pulled mine today for like half an hour, felt great.


All kidding aside, a groin pull is at most a 4 day recovery. I've tweaked mine several times through football, MMA, and running. It's a quick recovery, no big deal. If this were a calf, hamstring, knee, etc, then I'd be worried. Lighten up guys. He'll be fine.

4 days, who would have thunk!?!?!? Andre reporting zero issue today, he'll be fine folks. Most guys will tweak their groin in a football season and not say much, and they'll still play.
 
What makes you think they WON'T???

They gave Okoye time. They gave Jacoby time. And both were cut. Kubiak is done with project picks. He chose two guys (Posey and Martin) who were solid WRs from legitimate NCAA programs, and I think they'll shock a lot of people.

Past failures do not always equate to future failures being a sure thing.

The early reports are that Martin and Posey are making great catches and are not failing. At this stage, with rookie WRs, that's an incredibly good sign.

How many times did we hear Amobi was not being his man, or Jacoby was bobbling passes in camp?

They're rookies, rookie WR's dont normally contribute much their first 2 yrs.

Past failure more often than not lead to future failures.

Rick/Gary better hope these guys break the mold.
 
4 days, who would have thunk!?!?!? Andre reporting zero issue today, he'll be fine folks. Most guys will tweak their groin in a football season and not say much, and they'll still play.

And then there are memories of


NFL Players News
Mario Williams Questionable
Matt.Baliga
Oct 08 2010

Update: Gregg Rosenthal of ProFootballTalk.com reports that Houston Texans DE Mario Williams will be questionable for this weekend's game against the Giants. Williams sustained a minor groin injury during Thursday's practice.



#Texans DE Mario Williams had an MRI yesterday for groin pain but says he'll be fine and expects to play. He called it "a little boo boo"

http://twitter.com/NickScurfield

Questioned about Williams’ mobility, middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans insisted: “I’m not worried about Mario. He’s a tough guy. He’s fought through things before.”
For the rest: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-76265.html





Mario Williams placed on IR
Updated: December 15, 2010, 10:19 PM ET
Associated Press

HOUSTON -- Mario Williams, the Houston defensive end who went to the last two Pro Bowls, is out for the rest of the season.

The Texans said Wednesday that Williams, the first overall pick in 2006, had been placed on season-ending injured reserve. He's struggled with injuries since September, and a groin injury was listed as the reason.

Coach Gary Kubiak said Williams will have surgery to repair a sports hernia on Tuesday in Philadelphia.
 
They're rookies, rookie WR's dont normally contribute much their first 2 yrs.

Past failure more often than not lead to future failures.

Rick/Gary better hope these guys break the mold.

Exactly, and that is why I still don't understand why so many Houston folks kept clamoring for a WR in the first round. There wasn't going to be one that dominant where we were drafting most likely and most 1st year WR's have a huge learning curve and end up hitting it big by year 3. A few have had big seasons recently, but just going off of a more consistent history. I've been a lot more interested in free agents and guys that were on the trading block the last two off seasons, but I guess we're going to have to roll with these rookies, Walter and Bryant Johnson.
 
Exactly, and that is why I still don't understand why so many Houston folks kept clamoring for a WR in the first round. There wasn't going to be one that dominant where we were drafting most likely and most 1st year WR's have a huge learning curve and end up hitting it big by year 3. A few have had big seasons recently, but just going off of a more consistent history. I've been a lot more interested in free agents and guys that were on the trading block the last two off seasons, but I guess we're going to have to roll with these rookies, Walter and Bryant Johnson.

It's kinda like drilling for oil in Alaska. Had we started 10 years ago, we wouldn't hear the, "We won't see that oil for 10 years" argument.

A first round reciever should be able to produce what KDub or JJ has for the past couple of years. Next year, we'd be deadly.
 


Mario Williams is not "most". CND I know that because of your medical background you've seen every negative aspect of the medical community. This is why people come to doctors and surgeons, they're at the worst point of the injury. This is why it's hard to expect something to be minor, because you are constantly subjected to the most extreme versions of said injuries, along with minor versions. Mario most likely strained an abductor or adductor, I don't really think he pulled his groin.

My question to you is, have you pulled your groin before? I have, on many different occasions, it's always been a day or two, 4 days at most injury. It's pretty darn common in the sports community.

No disrespect intended. Flamesuit on.
 
Mario Williams is not "most". CND I know that because of your medical background you've seen every negative aspect of the medical community. This is why people come to doctors and surgeons, they're at the worst point of the injury. This is why it's hard to expect something to be minor, because you are constantly subjected to the most extreme versions of said injuries, along with minor versions. Mario most likely strained an abductor or adductor, I don't really think he pulled his groin.

My question to you is, have you pulled your groin before? I have, on many different occasions, it's always been a day or two, 4 days at most injury. It's pretty darn common in the sports community.

No disrespect intended. Flamesuit on.

No disrespect taken....and no flamesuit required. Your comments are legitimate concerning discerning between truly "minor" vs significant groin strains. A lot of the confusion rests in the terms "groin strain/pull," to begin with. Many people will include sources caused by hernias, thigh muscle/tendon tears, lower abdominal muscle/tendon tears, etc. within this group. The classic "groin strain," though, is usually, in fact, due to varying degrees of tear severity of the adductor muscles. Even within this more acceptable definition, it must be kept in mind that the adductor muscles are actually a group of 5 different muscles. Tear/strain of any of these muscles will result in the problems associated with "groin strain."

And you are correct, I have tended to see these problems at a more severe stage. However, many of these patients related that their problems all started with a "tweak" or "minor tug' or "tightness"........and progressed due to inadequate rest and rehab periods. No doubt, we have already seen this scenario play out in a number of Texans players over the past few years.

All athletes and coaches tend to push the minimal time for recovery to its limit for obvious reasons..........even though they say they are not doing so, and are just following protocol for the severity of injury.

As far as AJ's injury, even though it was originally reported that he had fallen awkwardly to cause the strain, it is now clear by his own words that the strain occurred while he was simply stretching out for the ball. Sure, it could be caused by deficient "warm up" period. But, it can't help you be concerned about a muscle balance and stability question, especially in light of his recent left knee scope, clipping of his right semitendinosus hamstring muscle last year, previous MCL and PCL left knee injury, previous ankle problems, etc. The fact that he is running now is not an extrapolation to on-the-field risk. Any adductor injury no matter how minor, can be re-injured following inadequate rest and rehab, when a player sprints full speed, changes direction acutely, or runs against resistance.........especially if there is any residual lower body muscle imbalance or instability. I have, indeed, followed many patients who wish they could have traded an extra week or two lost to caution for a month or two or more of watching TV.

For so many reasons which I have related here and in past postings, I will remain very guarded about what AJ's future is as he deals with his "historic" injuries and their potential affect on future performance and likelihood of future injuries. No different than everyone else here, I hope that, at least this time, it was and will remain only a story of "The Tweak That Scared Millions."
 
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Fair enough, but what on earth is leading you to think this way?? What have these guys done to give you this kind of confidence in them? Striking gold? I'm having a hard time even seeing either one of these guys panning out. If these two were drafted by the Jags would you see it that way? I'm just curious, because it just seems like some optimism without reasoning which is fine and all, but I'm just not understanding it. If I felt that way, than I'd probably agree with you, but I can't figure out what is leading you to think that both guys are going to be these steals of the draft and the future of our receiving core without at least seeing these guys play in 8 games of the regular season. I've seen a ton of pre season warriors even where folks get all excited only for big let downs. Jacoby Jones was a huge one that I even bought into at the time.

My main reasoning is that it seems Kubiak is shying away from that previous mentality he had of going for the small school WR (Jacoby).

He's going with proven producers whom I think he has plans for. Before, he was trying Jacoby as sort of a home run threat who was going to be fast and lethal.

I see Posey as a better version of Walter. He's got the blocking skills for our run game, but he's faster than Walter. And younger.

Martin is also a better version of David Anderson.

I see them as upgrades in two WR spots that have been weakened by Jacoby petering out and Walter getting older, slower.

With the loss of Dressen, it was crucial for Kubiak to rejuvenate the WR corps. Jacoby was really the only new WR we've been accustomed to for the past three years. So let's see what Kubiak's new WRs, including LeStar Jean, can do.

It takes as much faith to think they'll wash out as it does to think they'll excel and play a contributing role.

Lastly, we could have skipped JJ Watt and Brooks Reed in the 2011 draft in favor if some potential #1 WR to groom for AJ's spot. And we could have reached in the 2012 draft for that same heir apparent. At the end if the day, all things considered, we made the right moved in both drafts...free agency was helter skelter due to our untenable cap situation. We simply didn't have the flexibility to pursue WR1 guys, IMO.

It's not so much a deal of people reaching to protect Smithiak...because it could be just as easily said that some are reaching to condemn them for the unpardonable sin of not having his replacement already on the roster by now. 6 one way, half dozen the other...both are the same thing just different ways of saying it.

It's possible that we could beef up one area and have another suffer for it. We chose to beef up the defense over the past few years, and a UDFA named Arian Foster made up a lot of ground out of nowhere for us. Sometimes your plans don't work, sometimes the unforeseen ends up being your savior, and you can't always solve all problems on the board no matter how hard you try. What I am saying is this: We have what we have, so keys enjoy it and hope what we DO have ends up being a great deal in the end (i.e. Arian Foster's impact on this offense).
 
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