Erratic Assassin
Rookie
gg no re said:Reggie is a Heisman winner.
His chances of failing in the NFL is high.
That's nonsense! The Heisman trophy is a foolproof predicter of NFL success!
Signed,
Chris Weinke
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gg no re said:Reggie is a Heisman winner.
His chances of failing in the NFL is high.
Actually if you want to be serious about it, it is nonsense. Atleast with the theory that heisman winners have a high fail rate compared to their other counter parts selected high in the draft. The truth is that is one of the biggest misconceptions about the draft. The truth is the success and failure rate of heisman winners is about par with the success and failure rates of other high drafted players.Erratic Assassin said:That's nonsense! The Heisman trophy is a foolproof predicter of NFL success!
Signed,
Chris Weinke
Texans86 said:The main arguement that I see for Bush is that we can wait on the OL. The only problem is that we have done this for 4 years, and it took us full circle back to the number one pick.
Texans86 said:Number one picks also cost a lot of money for an unproven player. I wish something could be done about how much money draftees get in their respective rounds, something along the lines of "if you do this..., then you get $x.00", but the CBA has to deal with that, so it will never be addressed. Bush is an amazing talent, but his hype is what mainly pushes me away from him when we have so many other glaring needs. I will support him if we take him, but I think we would be better off by trading this pick away.
Hervoyel said:....but the overwhelming evidence shows that this team has taken steps to improve and was improving until a) Joe Pendry came in to take over coaching the offensive line and b) Run blocking was switched to a zone style while at the same time pass blocking assignments were changed This second part was completely downplayed at the time but it happened. The offensive line went from 76 sacks to 36 sacks and added a thousand yard rusher in 2003. In 2004 the same line again blocked enough for DD to get his thousand but they were up in the 40's on sacks. This year the run blocking is again about the same and we're in the high 60's or so.
Carr Bomb said:Okay first of all, it is entirely stupid and unfair to bush to compare him to barry and the same goes for comparing barry to bush. They aren't even the same type of runner. As far as rbs go for every "barry didn't carry the lions to a championship" argument. (which I think is unfair, he carried them from being a absolute laughing stock in the league and was a damn good player) There is a player like marshel faulk, yeah he didn't help them win a superbowl.I'm not comparing Bush to Marshall, because again it isn't fair. All I'm saying is people are starting to just make excuses why we should't take him and are really just starting to act scared.
Second people are really starting to sound hypocritical also. They say that bush isn't a sure bet and thats true no player is, but then they act if we trade down all the picks we aquire will be. Whose to say if we trade down and pick up extra picks we'll even aquire talent equivelent to bush if he ends up having a great career and all we got was maybe a above avg. player, a avg. player, and a couple of people that didn't even make the cut. Remember one of the points that was brought up in the "Barry didn't help the Lions" and the "Lions are comparable to the texans" arguments was that we had a sketchy front office, but they want to trust that same front office to pull off a trade involving one of the most acclaimed players to come out in some time, does that make any sense. Sometimes the worst pick a franchise can make is the pick they don't make.
Also how can any argue that Washington trading away Ricky helped them even if they did pick up a possible HOFer in Bailey, THEY ENDED UP TRADING HIM FOR YOU GEUSSED IT A RB (who is one of the big reasons they might be going to the playoffs) and Lavar doesn't even play for them anymore.
I would rather watch Bush become a bust or not live up to expectations, than be known as the team that traded away his rights for a starter and maybe a situational guy and a couple that aren't even on the team anymore and then had to sit back and watch him become great.
putting scotch tape on a 16 inch gash on your forehead would be addressing the problem to some extent too, but I wouldn't exactly say that it will fix it. Were you one of the ones that thought P-Buc was going to make our defense faster and younger?Hervoyel said:Simply not true. This team has addressed the offensive line every year since 2002 to some extent.
I didn't say the QB was the key to the team's success. I said the QB was key to the success of the offense.Hervoyel said:Well Dan Marino never won one either and guess what he lacked? That's right, no running back to speak of. What happens to (most) QB's who lack a running game is remarkably similar to what you see with star RB's. Lots of stats and not enough wins. No trophies.
15 of the last 20 Heisman winners have not been impact players in the NFL.Carr Bomb said:Atleast with the theory that heisman winners have a high fail rate compared to their other counter parts selected high in the draft. The truth is that is one of the biggest misconceptions about the draft. The truth is the success and failure rate of heisman winners is about par with the success and failure rates of other high drafted players.
gg no re said:15 of the last 20 Heisman winners have not been impact players in the NFL.
That's the truth.
I love Vince, I really do, but he scares gms, because they don't know what to do with him. With his size and speed peope are always going to question whether he should be a wideout and they're always going to question his arm and accuracy at the nfl level.Big B Texan Fan said:Let's just say that the Fresno game never happened for Bush. Better yet let's just give him normal #'s for that game. 150 rush / 45 rec / 65 total PR & KR. With 2 TD's. Now let's add about 10 more TD's to Vince Young's totals. That ought to equate to him missing most of the 4th quarters this season.
Now does Bush win the Heisman? Or is it Vince?
Then would it be OK to take him since the Heisman jinx isn't there.
Or would we still draft Vince (if he came out) regardless of winning the Heisman.
Food for thought.
UHD1906 said:He hasn't stayed healthy for a full season yet!! Why do people think he's the back of the future for the Texans? If we had Bush, we could make use of him and Davis.
you can't compare a rb to a wr, every rb on every team has had more contact than their wr, I don't know what point your trying to make.Malloy said:He's played almost as many games as AJ. He also carries a much greater load, takes more hits and such.
swtbound07 said:i would like to take this opportunity to point out that barry sanders was a beast in tecmo super bowl. That is all.
Yeah Bo jackson was a BEAST in tecmo super bowl, with the LA raiders all you had to do was take the ball to the outside and he was unstopable. ha ha. God that was a long time ago, but damn I still have fun playing that game. You dont even have to pass, run left, run right, touchdown!Txn_in_VA said:That is a terrible, terrible argument to start. The merits of a cyber-Sanders on Tecmo Bowl could bring down this message board. Then again a cyber-Sanders never stood a chance against the power that was Tecmo-Bo. Jackson would run and run and run. THousand yard games? No prob. If for some reason your opponent was on to you, you could always toss the other way to Allen.
Geez, see what you started.![]()
TexanAddict said:I have two words...Barry Sanders.
Sanders is one of the greatest RBs in NFL history, drafted as the third pick in the 1989 draft. He led the NFC in touchdowns scored 3 times and the entire NFL twice. He led the NFC in rushing 5 times, including his rookie season. He was an unbelievable talent that electrified the game of football.
My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.
The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.![]()
BigDTexansFan said:Texan can go you one better in 1968 worst team gets #1 pick O. J. Simpson, Buffalo lost their game, Steelers won and lost #1 pick. Buffalo never made a serious run at Super Bowl, within a decade Steelers had been to several Super Bowls.
I will take 2 Super Bowls over Reggie Bush ANY DAY!!!![]()
gg no re said:I'd elaborate, but you'd retort with more information to waste my time.
........ lines of quotes follow.
Yeah, I hear they're painting Pots black now. HOW CRAAAZY IS THAT?!Hervoyel said:Pot? Is that you?
Waaaaasssssssup?
- Kettle
Carr Bomb said:Yeah Bo jackson was a BEAST in tecmo super bowl, with the LA raiders all you had to do was take the ball to the outside and he was unstopable. ha ha. God that was a long time ago, but damn I still have fun playing that game. You dont even have to pass, run left, run right, touchdown!
DRAMA said:There was also that quick slant pass that Chicago threw that was the 'glitch' play. Maybe Grossman should try that.
Techmo-Bowl tooks hours of my life in college.....LOVED IT!!
TexanAddict said:My point is, however, where did this ultimately get the woeful Lions? The answer is one playoff victory in his 10 seasons as a Lion. Sure, the Lions went to the playoffs several times during that span, but were inevitably beaten each time in the first round.
The moral of this story is that one player cannot save a bad team by himself, and I'm afraid at this point the Texans may be a bad team in need of more than just one player. While I will not pitch a fit if Bush is selected by the Texans, I'm just not sure the move might be in their best interest. End Rant.![]()
xtruroyaltyx said:so you wouldn't have picked barry? One pick SHOULDN'T make or break a franchise, and it wasn't the "Barry" pick that cost the lions...Picking up reggie shouldn't send us into a downward spiral...adding a great player shouldn't hurt us more than 2-13...If we pick reggie and we go under 2-13 you win...
jerek said:The Lions argument consists of people stating that, similarly to Barry Sanders, Reggie Bush will not in and of himself resurrect this team. Obviously, we need competent coaching and staff to surround him with
jerek said:jerek said:Agreed...I never said that he would bring us back from the dead...I think he is a great talent that cant be passed unless you already have a top 5 running back...AND...A great recieving core
jerek said:To this most people would add, Davis is already a good back; if you disagree, fine.jerek said:jerek said:He's decent...not top 5
[QUOTE=jerek]No one is saying that picking Barry Sanders screwed the Lions out of anythingjerek said:jerek said:If that's not what you all are saying, why the comparison...I agree that coacing and blah blah blah must be changed, but that has to be changed whether we get bush or not...
jerek said:Bush is 20 lbs lighter than Sanders and is coming into the NFL averaging 15 carries a game. He is flashy, sure, but no one knows what the hell he is going to look like at the end of his first season.jerek said:jerek said:Since college is all we have to judge any of these players off of...what is your point..the same can be said about every player in the draft..
jerek said:we ought to trade the pick to bolster the rest of our roster.jerek said:jerek said:That argument sounds like the one of impatience...Bush is a rare talent...we can bolster with role players later...Im talking about drafting a star...not some player that can come in and be "good"...There is plenty of time for that..I don't see a superbowl in the Texans near future so why such the rush...
jerek said:Great talent, but don't reserve his HOF seat just yet. He hasn't played a down in the NFL, rememberjerek said:jerek said:Now you are going off on a rampage
xtruroyaltyx said:jerek said:The Lions argument consists of people stating that, similarly to Barry Sanders, Reggie Bush will not in and of himself resurrect this team. Obviously, we need competent coaching and staff to surround him withjerek said:jerek said:Agreed...I never said that he would bring us back from the dead...I think he is a great talent that cant be passed unless you already have a top 5 running back...AND...A great recieving core
jerek said:To this most people would add, Davis is already a good back; if you disagree, fine.jerek said:jerek said:He's decent...not top 5
[QUOTE=jerek]No one is saying that picking Barry Sanders screwed the Lions out of anythingjerek said:jerek said:If that's not what you all are saying, why the comparison...I agree that coacing and blah blah blah must be changed, but that has to be changed whether we get bush or not...
jerek said:Bush is 20 lbs lighter than Sanders and is coming into the NFL averaging 15 carries a game. He is flashy, sure, but no one knows what the hell he is going to look like at the end of his first season.jerek said:jerek said:Since college is all we have to judge any of these players off of...what is your point..the same can be said about every player in the draft..
jerek said:we ought to trade the pick to bolster the rest of our roster.jerek said:jerek said:That argument sounds like the one of impatience...Bush is a rare talent...we can bolster with role players later...Im talking about drafting a star...not some player that can come in and be "good"...There is plenty of time for that..I don't see a superbowl in the Texans near future so why such the rush...
jerek said:Great talent, but don't reserve his HOF seat just yet. He hasn't played a down in the NFL, rememberjerek said:jerek said:Now you are going off on a rampage
xtruroyaltyx it seems like you are one of the few sane people on this board:brickwall
swtbound07 said:i respectfully disagree on the tecmo bowl point. The new york giants were far and away the best team on super tecmo bowl. They had 3 solid recievers (ingram, baker, bavaro) 2 of the best running backs (meggett, anderson,) the one of the best return men (meggett), and hands down the best defensive player on the game Lawrence Taylor. You could block extra points with LT, and get about 100 sacks a season....plus the flea flicker was indefensible as a play
tulexan said:You are right, it is a team sport, but when the players on your team can't get in the endzone and can't create separation then you are not going to win games.
The Bears have the best defense in the league, but they were struggling in every game until they got Rex Grossman back who can put points on the board.
Cincinnati has the 5th best runningback in the league with Rudi Johnson (12 touchdowns) and two good receivers with Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmandzadeh who have a combined 16 touchdowns.
Jacksonville, I have no idea how they are successful. I think it is partly due to them being a decent team in the second worst division in the league.
Denver has a speedy Tatum Bell who is a very important aspect of their offense. He has only a hundred yards less than DD, yet on 70 less carries, and he has more touchdowns. The 1-2 punch of Anderson and Bell is one of the best in the league.
Patriots are the Patriots. They have a genius for a coach and are the best run team in the NFL.
Like you said, the Colts are loaded, and having multiple playmakers is a reason why their offense is so open. Do you want to stop Marvin, Reggie, Edgerrin, or Dallas? An addition of Reggie Bush could give us a poor man's Colts because we will have the weapons of Bush, Davis, Johnson, and hopefully Joppru eventually.
Giants are successful because of their "smallish back" who has had over 2000 total yards the past two seasons along with 15 and 10 touchdowns respectively, they have a big time receiver with Plaxico Burress, a big time TE with Jeremy Shockey, and a good second receiver with Amani Toomer.
I happen to believe that we need more offensive weapons on our team. Besides Andre Johnson, we have no one who demands the attention of multiple defenders. Teams try to shut down Andre and make our other players beat them, and we are not doing it. Domanick can nickle and dime us down the field, yet once we get into the redzone he appears on milk cartons and flyers across the town. We need a player who can spread the field and force the defenses to be honest. I think Bush could be that player to open up our offense and help our team play better.
gg no re said:To be fair to Gaffney, Toomer wasn't playing in an offense where the call was "Dive up the middle" every other play.
Zephyr said:Unless we get 2 number ones (how it breaks out this year/next year, I don't care, at least one needs to be top 10) and two number twos, you don't do the deal.
We are not going to get fair value for this pick unless someone goes Ditka.
Sooooo, I predict Bush becomes a Texan!
Honoring Earl 34 said:What happens if we get the first pick and nobody will give us a good trade . Reggie 's hit the 4.27 for the 40 yd dash at 205 lbs and the best we can get is trade 1st and a 3rd .
The key player for trade bait is Leinert and if his stock does'nt rise we have a dilema .
What happens if Bush grades out a 10 and Dbrick is a 8.5 or Hawks a 9.0 ?