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Time to TRY to reboot against Jax!

badboy

Hall of Fame
The biggest difference I saw was in Watson - when he came in the league he was more of a gunslinger, throwing lots of high risk high reward passes. Sometimes struggling with accuracy but with lots of big plays. At some point last year or the year before that BoB changed that, because Watson was making too many mistakes. Watson went from averaging something close to 300yards per game to something closer to 200 yards - with way fewer interceptions and tds and throw attempts.

last night it looked more like the old Watson with all positives and negatives. It definitely is more exciting and I think with our poor running game gives us a better chance at winning. But I would like a middle ground with a whole lot more easy fast throws and scheming receivers open. Still I am glad we are already seeing a difference after the firing...
Yep and now we savor and move on. There were errors by Watson and others as can be expected. What I think is great some of his can be fixed like the check down to David that was intercepted. This morning OTW to my jetski, 610 were discussing that play saying Watson can correct. One play #4 went through progression and passed to Cook on left. Beautiful to watch.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Some of y’all are literally too deep. I mean y’all wasn’t impressed with Tennessee beating this same Jacksonville team by 3? This same team beat the Colts. We won convincingly and you’re still complaining. Knowing darn well this team is going through some serious stuff. Gotta love our fan base. Team has to be 100% perfect.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I'm sorry guys but if you didn't see a really big difference even 5 days later and even against a generally crappy opponent as if we're not crappy ourselves then you simply weren't watching this game or you weren't understanding what was wrong this whole time.

There was a big difference that even the love child of Helen Keller and Ray Charles could see.
Stevie Wonder says quit talking about his folks!
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
And the vikings?
I think Sunday's players with Bill gone could have beaten Minny. I cannot prove and doesn't matter as history yet it does add to my enthusiasm. Texans need great weak of practise. Can someone find out why Scharping riding the bench? Did Bill move his doghouse to his own back yard? Hey pharoah, let my Scharpie go.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That's a good point. Someone is making the decision not to keep & run. I'd love to understand it.

But the main point stands, BO'bs not here & he's still not doing it. So whoever's fault it is, it's not BO'bs
To me, there was only one play under contention (3rd qtr, 12:26 mark).
The end man didn't really commit on the RB; he hang around at the LOS, and there was a LB on the second level, too.

On a side note, Watson seems to play from under center more than usual as I'm reviewing the plays.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
Please expound. The first series was classic BO’b

We didn't have any three and outs and only punted once if I recall.

We went for the kill when we had the chance.

The team ran and executed many creative plays.

The team had visible charisma and energy.

There weren't much if any clock management mistakes.

The team actually utilized their best (SIGH) wide receiver.

Just for starters.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Some of y’all are literally too deep. I mean y’all wasn’t impressed with Tennessee beating this same Jacksonville team by 3? This same team beat the Colts. We won convincingly and you’re still complaining. Knowing darn well this team is going through some serious stuff. Gotta love our fan base. Team has to be 100% perfect.
No, team doesn't have to be perfect, but after the game, people are allowed to be as negative as Nancy can be.
Except for one or two who clings on to the hope that OB was not the villain.
And there's nothing we can do about that now, is there?
:wesmantexanfan: :slapfight: :ahhaha:
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Except for one or two who clings on to the hope that OB was not the villain.
I was hoping O'Brien was the villain. I was hoping to see Deshaun unchained.

Maybe since this game never got out of hand he didn't resort to "hero ball" which is fine.

Granted BO'b called a horrible game against Minnesota & we should have scored 30 on them...

Ok... I've just convinced myself I need to go back & watch the Vikings game. Something has to be different. Both defenses suk & both offenses were similar. But we were in complete control against the Jags & didn't show up for Minnesota.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I was hoping O'Brien was the villain. I was hoping to see Deshaun unchained.

Maybe since this game never got out of hand he didn't resort to "hero ball" which is fine.

Granted BO'b called a horrible game against Minnesota & we should have scored 30 on them...

Ok... I've just convinced myself I need to go back & watch the Vikings game. Something has to be different. Both defenses suk & both offenses were similar. But we were in complete control against the Jags & didn't show up for Minnesota.
I think I will go back to the Vikings game, too.
Was starting on it, but it felt like a drag, and then all hell broke loose, LOL.

I forgot most I saw, don't think I started taking note yet.

...
Anywho, this last game did see Watson on the run and also on the pitch as well, so it's definitely different from the early games especially when you add all these quick strikes and play action pass/run from the I.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
There's a difference between playing the Jags and the Chiefs/Ravens/Steelers etc... You are correct.
What did the Texans do in each one of those games? They had a drive or drives offensively that went right down the field and put up a TD. If the team could do it once what prevented them from doing it again? I'll start with the immediate, OB theme of playing to protect the lead regardless of when he got it. What was different on this particular Sunday....OB wasn't available to squash the momentum and they put up 30 points and made the Jags play catch-up for a full 60 minutes. JJ's tweet pretty much summed it up, for the entire team in my estimation....."FUN....Finally!!!".
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Agreed, but to be effective in the RPO the threat of QB keeper has to be there.
Being able to successfully run when necessary establishes the same fear as running designed plays. A naked bootleg is awesome when defenses hold the RB in high regard. I'd give it a few more weeks of David J having nearly or 100 yards on the ground and a few TD's from inside the 10 yard line before I'd start implementing a Naked Bootleg.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Some of y’all are literally too deep. I mean y’all wasn’t impressed with Tennessee beating this same Jacksonville team by 3? This same team beat the Colts. We won convincingly and you’re still complaining. Knowing darn well this team is going through some serious stuff. Gotta love our fan base. Team has to be 100% perfect.
Happy we won. But when you bring in the Titans comparison, you might want to take this into consideration. The Jags had all their major players that game (week 2). The Colts were already decimated with injuries, missing major pieces or had them greatly affected by injury.

1602533626234.png
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Happy we won. But when you bring in the Titans comparison, you might want to take this into consideration. The Jags had all their major players that game (week 2). The Colts were already decimated with injuries, missing major pieces or had them greatly affected by injury.

View attachment 6845
IMO, the Colts had a very deep roster to start the year, or at least deeper than any other team in the AFC South.
They had guys on the bench that can start for other teams.

The Jags simply played a good game that day.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
I think Sunday's players with Bill gone could have beaten Minny. I cannot prove and doesn't matter as history yet it does add to my enthusiasm.
I think so too, but like you said we will never know. From the reports I read, imo the moment OB lost that locker room after the Pittsburgh game (maybe even before that but who knows) it was all down hill from there.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The RPO play was not designed for the QB to keep the ball as the key to the attack.
I'll give you that... when I see that look, I'm thinking Zone Read. They may not be looking at it as a Zone Read at all & just thinking RPO.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I like Minshew. Kid's a baller
I like watching him too .... He's a baller who gets by on "try hard" , aint no quit in the guy but .... he aint very good.

I said before the season starts "any team starting Gardner Minshew at QB isn't trying to win."

I stick to that statement ....I thought they were tryin to win the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes when he was named the starter.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
It was the Jags .... with Gardner Minshew at QB and missing half their starting defense.

I'll take a win but its by no means a barometer ....
I haven't seen anyone saying it was a barometer rather something to look at discuss, criticise and compliment if necessary. Texans were missing MLb BMac his immediate replacement Kalambayi; starting Tyrell Adams he of PS last season;Corner Conley and playing Blacklock.
I think most here understand it was one game against a team that was about as bad as we were at 12 noon.

I get and have voiced positives and negatives of Bill, Watson, Watt, Hopkins and others but for now, 3pm Sunday until 12 noon vs Titans I'm going to enjoy the win and discuss today's team, coaches and ownership. This win has me looking at the American South Division again thinking what if?
 
Despite the Jags weak won/loss record, for the most part they have been competitive all season. They are not pushovers. Our team started slow against them but as the game progressed our team built momentum and imo over all they played a good game.

A culture change sometimes is all that is needed. I am not saying RAC is the answer long term but for now he is a breath of fresh air and just what this particular team needs. There is new life to our team. Win lose or draw our team seems energized and hopefully that alone will keep this season from being a total waste.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
One thing I’d have liked to have seen would have been Watson keeping the ball on the zone read when the read said for him to keep it and run to the outside for easy yards.

That would have added to the theory that BO’b was stopping Watson from using his legs to make plays.

I’m not closing the book on that theory, but if he doesn’t start taking those zone reads in the next few weeks I’ll put that theory to bed.
One of the issues I think we all have is that we see something that may be available but IT IS NOT an option. I think it's been said before but in case it hasn't, some of those plays that look like Watson has the option to keep the ball and run is not designed for him to keep it. It's those times when he stays on course instead of running with it. Ever notice how OB said he doesn't keep Watson from running and he never got upset with Watson for not running, that should tell us something. Watson is not going of course there because he is staying within the framework of the play design. I think that in itself has caused confusion in him and leads to inconsistency. Watson is naturally gifted and his instincts have been reigned in trying to become what OB wanted. Even though OB is gone, it's still his offense and because of that Watson will not peak. Those first games in his rookie year happened because he was instinctive and OB hadn't fused his will on him yet. Defenses didn't get used to Watson after game film, defenses knew how to defend OB's offense. Once OB put Watson into his framework (as OB stated when he said things would change), things became much different. Defenses will learn tendencies and things of the sort but Watson was not the type of QB OB wanted. Watson overcame that at times but could never reach his full potential. OB was just to stubborn to adapt or get help.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
No stupid long developing plays help.
Getting the ball out quick to the playmakers.
No bad call like going on fourth down on your end of the field.
No mismanagement of the clock.
Good tempo.

At least for this one game, the team didn't have the HC holding them back.
 
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I like watching him too .... He's a baller who gets by on "try hard" , aint no quit in the guy but .... he aint very good.

I said before the season starts "any team starting Gardner Minshew at QB isn't trying to win."

I stick to that statement ....I thought they were tryin to win the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes when he was named the starter.
Gardner has shown that with adequate time to pass the ball he is better than average. He missed on many plays but that was because our defense pressured him regularly. He could have stepped into some throws and connected with some wide open receivers but he was pressured enough that he felt pressure even when he had adequate time. JJ Watt did not have a statistically great game but he was getting a push into Gardner on a lot of plays and that helped the whole defense.

Win, lose or draw I expect our team to look better and not get totally outcoached. Also since there is still plenty of games left, as a fan I have hope. I am not expecting much in the way of wins but with a new found motivation anything is possible.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Happy we won. But when you bring in the Titans comparison, you might want to take this into consideration. The Jags had all their major players that game (week 2). The Colts were already decimated with injuries, missing major pieces or had them greatly affected by injury.

View attachment 6845
Next man up applies here. You’re using an excuse to validate your mute point. The Texans were dealing with more than just injuries. They were dealing with dysfunctional crap, players getting into heated exchanges with their head coach and the HC/GM getting fired. We had the worst defense in the NFL. We had a very inconsistent offense going into this game. So coming out with a dominant victory should be the talking point around here. Not this nitpicking stuff we’ve come accustomed to around here.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There were plenty of long developing plays. Jacksonville doesn't have a pass rush. There were times when I said, dang he has all day. & I wasn't screaming, just throw the dang thing.
Which ONES?
I just went through them quickly.
Was going back and study each play closely (also on D).
Only got through halfway of the second quarter.
If you can give the time stamp, I can get to them quickly.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There were plenty of long developing plays. Jacksonville doesn't have a pass rush. There were times when I said, dang he has all day. & I wasn't screaming, just throw the dang thing.
If you're talking about the INT right before the half, it wasn't a stupid long developing play.
They had 6 guys to block 4, and Watson threw the ball in less than 3 seconds.
The line held somewhat until 73 allowed his man to got a piece of the ball.
It was unfortunate, but 6 guys need to be able to do a better job within that time frame.
There was also a short route that Watson can go to, but he expected the line to hold a littler better than it did.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There were plenty of long developing plays. Jacksonville doesn't have a pass rush. There were times when I said, dang he has all day. & I wasn't screaming, just throw the dang thing.
The second INT was on a play action pass.
3 seconds was the right amount for a QB to get off a pass there.
Nothing stupid about the play.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
There were plenty of long developing plays. Jacksonville doesn't have a pass rush. There were times when I said, dang he has all day. & I wasn't screaming, just throw the dang thing.
On the TD pass to Fuller, pressure came in, but Watson was able to slide to his left, buying another second to throw the ball.
The play itself was not long developing, nor stupid.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Which ONES?
I just went through them quickly.
Was going back and study each play closely (also on D).
Only got through halfway of the second quarter.
If you can give the time stamp, I can get to them quickly.
If you're talking about the INT right before the half, it wasn't a stupid long developing play.
They had 6 guys to block 4, and Watson threw the ball in less than 3 seconds.
The line held somewhat until 73 allowed his man to got a piece of the ball.
It was unfortunate, but 6 guys need to be able to do a better job within that time frame.
There was also a short route that Watson can go to, but he expected the line to hold a littler better than it did.
The second INT was on a play action pass.
3 seconds was the right amount for a QB to get off a pass there.
Nothing stupid about the play.
On the TD pass to Fuller, pressure came in, but Watson was able to slide to his left, buying another second to throw the ball.
The play itself was not long developing, nor stupid.
The deep pass to Cooks with 9:41 to play took just over 2 seconds.
There's nothing else I saw that qualify as a deep pass.
I think you're the only person here that has a long winded back & forth conversation with himself :D :gathering:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If you're talking about the INT right before the half, it wasn't a stupid long developing play.
They had 6 guys to block 4, and Watson threw the ball in less than 3 seconds.
The line held somewhat until 73 allowed his man to got a piece of the ball.
It was unfortunate, but 6 guys need to be able to do a better job within that time frame.
There was also a short route that Watson can go to, but he expected the line to hold a littler better than it did.

Lol how does any of that have to do with whether it was a long developing play? You’re so caught up on trying to prove something that you’ve effectively strayed from the actual question. Just b/c he got rid of the ball Fast doesn’t mean it wasn’t a long developing play. Most of the plays themselves aren’t even long developing. DW4 AT TIMES has made them appear like they were when he’s holding the ball too long instead of just checking down and taking what the defense gives him.....which is what he himself said after the game.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lol how does any of that have to do with whether it was a long developing play? You’re so caught up on trying to prove something that you’ve effectively strayed from the actual question. Just b/c he got rid of the ball Fast doesn’t mean it wasn’t a long developing play. Most of the plays themselves aren’t even long developing. DW4 AT TIMES has made them appear like they were when he’s holding the ball too long instead of just checking down and taking what the defense gives him.....which is what he himself said after the game.
I'm going to be very patient and try to explain to you (and those who seem to take your side) for the last time regarding this matter by bringing up the Mahomes' 3rd and 15 TD pass in the SB that xtruroyaltyx had mentioned in the Watson Int's thread as followed:

Here’s a play where Tyreek Hill is technically open once he gets past the LB, but Mahomes didn’t throw the ball until he actually made his break because...well, that’s what they practice and it makes no sense to throw to a receiver you know is not looking for the ball at that point in their route:


Against zone coverage you will see that a lot where you look at film and think the guy is open but if the WR is not looking for the pass at that point of their route, the qb is not going to throw it there. Especially if the guy isn’t cutting his route off short and sitting in the open hole.

in the footage after hill clears the LB he Presses into the daft Etsy and the breaks out. It’s not until his break that he turn and looks for the pass. Mahomes knows hill is not going to be looking for the football until that point in his route so that is when he throws it.
1. Mahomes took OVER 3 seconds to throw that ball with Buckner hitting him right after the release.
2. Andy Reid draw up that play knowing how long it would take for Hill to get there.
3. He initially had Max Protect for Mahomes; the RB made sure that his LT didn't get beat around the edge before releasing to the flat.
4. The RTE 81 took a hit on the LDE before running a seam route.
These two guys represent the short and medium routes.
5. The X ran a medium deep (about 20) in route, with the LTE 87 ran a similar route, both on play side (double dig, I think that's what they call it).
6. It's Mahomes' discretion on where the ball is going to.

In the long version here:
It was explained that:
- Mahomes had drifted some 14 yards back behind the LOS; that is a long, deep drop for a QB.
- Before that, he had come up to Bieniemy to ask for the play, which is call WASP in short (and his OC gave the AOK).

..................................

The Texans play is fairly similar in that:
1. They had 6 men to protect against a 4-man rush.
2. The right slot 12 ran a shallow crossing route, giving Watson the check down option.
3. The RB gave the LT help with a BIG chip on the RDE before releasing on a shallow crossing route in the opposite direction from above; another underneath option for the QB.
4. The Y 13 ran a 17-yd comebacker along the right side line for a medium deep option.
5. The Z 18 ran a deep seam route from the left slot to take away the SS in what started out as Cover 2 -
5 under, with both boundary corners carrying their man deep.
6. The X Fuller 15 ran a 20 yard deep in route from the left side line (Hi-Lo concept, inserting the wide out underneath the SS).
Here we can only guess at what depth Fuller needed to stem and turn inside for the throw; that's between the QB and the receiver (and the OC) when they draw up the play and practice it. It could be 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 yards whatever. But here, that doesn't really matter because the ball was tipped. Just a note.
7. Watson threw the ball somewhere between the 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 second mark.

It was not a stupid long developing play because it had an extra blocker; it had two shallow underneath routes, a medium deep route on the right, another one on the left, and the deep route to clear space underneath.

The play was called after a missed FG by the opponent, with 34 seconds left in the half.
That's a great time for such a call, trying to capitalize on the negative mood of the opponent.
Watson didn't hold on to the ball forever like you tried to claim (well under 3 seconds).

Are you satisfied now? :carrot :hankpalm::corrosion:
 


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