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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

infantrycak said:
Yeah I thought so. Your customized definition. Most folks figure if 2 or more people are assigned to block someone in series or parallel it's a double.

Yours doesn’t even make sense. A DT could get doubled by a C and G taking steps in opposite directions.
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We're talking about and edge rusher.JJ gets doubled alot. Its not only the initial move, but the slide protection. If Clowney is edge rushing as a lb outside the de, so who is blocking the de if the tackle is blocking the de?
 
Nitrofish said:
It's not necessarily about being too weak to jam. It's about being able to recover and get back into the play if you miss the jam and the LOS.
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I'd love to see the occasional jam but in all fairness:

-We haven't proven we can get to the qb
-Our inside lbs are slow and weak in coverage offering little aid in a blown coverage
-Our safetys are about the same as the ilbs and i dont count on them to prevent completions. Maybe a drag down tackle 20 yards down field but not to stop a completion on a blown coverage.

I think kjack is physical enough to do it put i'd play bump selectively on slower receivers and pick my spots.

We're getting raped in the 3 step pass game and until we play some bump or "dog over" coverages we can expect more of the same.
 
leebigeztx said:
If Clowney is edge rushing as a lb outside the de, so who is blocking the de if the tackle is blocking the de?
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Im assuming you meant "who is blocking the OLB"?

I'm also assuming this is about pass pro.

If my assumptions are correct then there could be a TE there helping to double, or a RB, or as you said they could slide the line.

Really, there are tons of ways that a coach can design the pass blocking and it could change from week to week or even within a game.

There really aren't any rules set in stone.
 
Just a thought. How do YOU count a chip block? It makes a difference in the analysis whether you choose to label it as a double team or not. Sometimes merely being in the way is sufficient to HELP as a second man interfering with a pass rusher. I'm not even sure whether I would count that as a chip block, much less a double team. But defining what YOU mean keeps it from argument about apples and oranges. Defining terms can get boring, but it is necessary for any chance at reaching consensus. But that doesn't seem to happen here very often.
 
leebigeztx said:
We're talking about and edge rusher.JJ gets doubled alot. Its not only the initial move, but the slide protection. If Clowney is edge rushing as a lb outside the de, so who is blocking the de if the tackle is blocking the OLB?
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Ever since we got Jj, Wade has had him line up outside the RT, for the most part. He moves around the line a lot, that's true. But especially in our four man rush packages, he plays outside the RT like Mario or Strahan does in a 4-3. The nose tackle shades the Center, usually to Jj's side. The other DE, Crick, lines up as the UT, between the LG & LT. Our OLB lines up outside the LT, just like a 4-3 DE would.

IMO, the only difference between our 3-4 & a 4-3, is that our RDE plays out of a 2 point stance.

Offensive lines block us just like they'd block a 4-3.

This is a video of a play against KC

Look at the alignment. Simon is outside the TE on the left. Jj is between the TE & the RT. Our NT is between the RG & Center. Crick is straight up on the LT & Mercilus is standing up outside.

MEMomNuk.jpg
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Im assuming you meant "who is blocking the OLB"?

I'm also assuming this is about pass pro.

If my assumptions are correct then there could be a TE there helping to double, or a RB, or as you said they could slide the line.

Really, there are tons of ways that a coach can design the pass blocking and it could change from week to week or even within a game.

There really aren't any rules set in stone.
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The slide is going watts way 90% of the time. Here is what I'm saying, I've seen very few max or even 6 man protection vs the texans. Teams are moreso quick passing because the lbs suck in coverage or they slide to jj and even with the blitz, they still cant get home. Clowney isnt being doubled. He hasnt done enough or been getting home enough for teams to 6,7, or max protect vs the texans. When that unknown from Carolina beat joseph, that was a max protect.
 
Besides finally recording his first NFL sack today, Clowney led the team in tackles including solo tackles.
 
IDEXAN said:
Besides finally recording his first NFL sack today, Clowney led the team in tackles including solo tackles.
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He had a decent game. However I did see one play he was cutting inside instead of setting the edge. Most likely expecting pass... which goes back to poor coaching.
 
infantrycak said:
Don't we all know Clowney has 2-3 years at best?

One of the problems with Great Danes is they grow so fast sometimes their hearts give out as pups. Some of these incredible athletes like Clowney who bloom early and seem like men among boys strike me the same way. Their bodies grew too fast and took on too much demand too early.
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mussop said:
LeBron seems to be doing fine.
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Interestingly enough:

That has become clear at this point, and there are signs the issue could be worsening. But it is also important to understand James has been dealing with back issues of varying degrees for nearly a decade, and he's always managed it and continued to thrive.

There was a time when James worried his knees would someday betray him as they do so many athletes. That was long ago replaced by attention to the lumbar region of his spine, his lower back. He probably is going to have to fight it in some way or another for the rest of his career.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14000537/nba-lebron-james-back-issues-more-apparent
 
Runner said:
Interestingly enough:




http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14000537/nba-lebron-james-back-issues-more-apparent
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You don't need to look that far to find an example of back problems in big men [See Dwight Howard below]. And once you have lower extremity injuries they can aggravate and/or cause back problems and vice versa..............that's exactly my worry about what's happened to our own JJ.
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2015/10/23/9587494/dwight-howard-back-injury
Should we be worried about Dwight Howard's back injuries?
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Since being pressured onto the court too early in L.A. after back surgery, Dwight has never again been truly 100 percent. Even last year's Playoff Dwight, he of the 16.4 points, 14.0 rebounds, 2.3 blocks and numerous thunderous alley-oops, was playing with a torn MCL and meniscus. Back problems are serious business, and they can effect every other part of the body for a long time if not properly healed, rested, and rehabbed.

It's disconcerting then, to see Howard on the sidelines less than a week before the start of the regular season with his second back issue in less than a month.

Howard claims that he's fine, telling the Houston Chronicle's Jonathan Feigen:

"I'm feeling pretty good. Today I did a lot of stuff on the court, a lot of conditioning, a lot of stuff with a little contact. The main thing is making sure I'm in great shape, good enough shape where I can come back and play as many minutes as I can.

"The most important thing is making sure my body is ready for the long haul. We have a long season. My teammates need me to be healthy. I don't think playing in a preseason game to prove to everybody that I can play is necessary. The most important thing is that I'm ready and in pretty good shape."

Since we've heard these declarations of health from Howard before that ultimately turned out false, what makes this situation different from the past several seasons? Howard believes it's a different (and ultimately minor) issue altogether, telling ESPN's Calvin Watkins:

"I had surgery on the left side of my back, but that was almost three years ago. There is tightness in my right lower back. Anybody that knows about sports and playing a lot of basketball, you use your hips and legs a lot, and unfortunately for me, I use mine more than most people.

"Just my hips and everything got tight from doing a lot of work and working out all summer, and it's different than training camp work. So my body just reacted to it. It's not anything structurally wrong with my back."

Howard vows that he'll be ready for the start of the regular season (technically game two after serving a one-game suspension) and expects to have a healthy run this season, but yet another in a seemingly unending string of injuries since that fated 2012 back surgery forces the skeptics in us.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
You don't need to look that far to find an example of back problems in big men [See Dwight Howard below]. And once you have lower extremity injuries they can aggravate and/or cause back problems and vice versa..............that's exactly my worry about what's happened to our own JJ.
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Didn't Charles Spencer have Micro fracture surgery?
 
Texian said:
Didn't Charles Spencer have Micro fracture surgery?
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No, he had surgery for a splintered (comminuted) tibial plateau fracture and never played another game for anyone. After such a terrible injury involving the joint, knee replacement would be the more appropriate option. You may be thinking of the Cowboys' DE ANTHONY Spencer, who underwent microfracture knee surgery in 2013.
 
There's obviously some guys on here who have played some defense in school or at least students of the x & o's.....And there's some really great points here about defensive scheme but considering the really bad play on defense & a record that's getting worse by the week half way thru the season, Id settle for some old school Buddy Ryan blitzes (The younger guys may not have watched Buddy's defenses)..so if u young guys want to watch an explosive, Intimidating, fast, mauling, exciting defense, watch some games from Buddy's days. Especially the game at the old Dome when Buddy was DC for Oilers & he took a "serious" swing at OC Kevin Gilbride on Monday Night Football because the offense kept going 3 & out.....lol....seriously!! THATS the "in your face spirit" I'd love to see by Romeo. Unfortunately, I don't really see that happening. But if I were Romeo I'd at least increase the blitzing to give the fans SOMETHING that resembles excitement. After all blitzing ain't rocket science...surly we have a few guys that can at least run at the QB....
 
Phoenix said:
There's obviously some guys on here who have played some defense in school or at least students of the x & o's.....And there's some really great points here about defensive scheme but considering the really bad play on defense & a record that's getting worse by the week half way thru the season, Id settle for some old school Buddy Ryan blitzes (The younger guys may not have watched Buddy's defenses)..so if u young guys want to watch an explosive, Intimidating, fast, mauling, exciting defense, watch some games from Buddy's days. Especially the game at the old Dome when Buddy was DC for Oilers & he took a "serious" swing at OC Kevin Gilbride on Monday Night Football because the offense kept going 3 & out.....lol....seriously!! THATS the "in your face spirit" I'd love to see by Romeo. Unfortunately, I don't really see that happening. But if I were Romeo I'd at least increase the blitzing to give the fans SOMETHING that resembles excitement. After all blitzing ain't rocket science...surly we have a few guys that can at least run at the QB....
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Unfortunately our secondary has been pretty unreliable.......our rushing the quarterback pretty ineffective and our blitzes picked up all too easily............we've been burned pretty badly when facing quarterbacks that can get the ball out half way quickly.
 
Phoenix said:
There's obviously some guys on here who have played some defense in school or at least students of the x & o's.....And there's some really great points here about defensive scheme but considering the really bad play on defense & a record that's getting worse by the week half way thru the season, Id settle for some old school Buddy Ryan blitzes (The younger guys may not have watched Buddy's defenses)..so if u young guys want to watch an explosive, Intimidating, fast, mauling, exciting defense, watch some games from Buddy's days. Especially the game at the old Dome when Buddy was DC for Oilers & he took a "serious" swing at OC Kevin Gilbride on Monday Night Football because the offense kept going 3 & out.....lol....seriously!! THATS the "in your face spirit" I'd love to see by Romeo. Unfortunately, I don't really see that happening. But if I were Romeo I'd at least increase the blitzing to give the fans SOMETHING that resembles excitement. After all blitzing ain't rocket science...surly we have a few guys that can at least run at the QB....
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[QUOTE="CloakNNNdagger, post: 2546155, member: 57"]Unfortunately our secondary has been pretty unreliable.......our rushing the quarterback pretty ineffective and our blitzes picked up all too easily............we've been burned pretty badly when facing quarterbacks that can get the ball out half way quickly.[/QUOTE]

Some stats to demonstrate exactly why Crennel is probably scared $%*tless to blitz.

Courtesy of Patrick Starr (SOTT) (*below, I bolded the Allowed Completion %)

Texans Coverage Through Seven Games
One unsettling thing has been the coverage by the Texans, here is a full breakdown of the key cornerbacks and safeties through seven game. Take a look.....

(*numbers from SOTT film watch)

Name Target Receptions Comp. % Yards YAC Long Rec. TD INT PD

Johnathan Joseph 48 24 50.0 248 100 36 2 0 6
Kevin Johnson 30 18 60.0 262 133 54 3 0 3
A.J. Bouye 18 12 66.7 174 60 53 4 1 2
Kareem Jackson 35 26 74.3 330 71 43 3 0 0

Name Targets Receptions Comp. % Yards YAC Long Rec. TD INT PD
Rahim Moore 6 3 50.0 68 30 42 1 1 1
Quintin Demps 9 5 55.6 62 15 19 0 1 0
Andre Hal 9 7 77.8 138 56 50 2 2 0
Eddie Pleasant 8 6 75.0 64 38 29 0 0 0

The amount of receptions they have given up is disturbing, especially the amount of yards after the catch they have given up. The "chunk" plays are also a concern and all but Demps and Pleasant have given up receptions over 35 plus yards. That is not winning football at any level when things are that easy though the air.
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Pleasant has more than made up for that by all of his untimely stupid penalties.
 
If your blitz is fast enough & overwhelming enough you don't have to worry so much about the DB's. We may not be as fast as needed but hell we gave up 40 points in 1st half against Dolfins.....how much could it hurt to blitz more.....what difference does it make if we're getting slammed to begin with...lol....definition of insanity: doing the same thing over & over expecting different results.......I'm at this point....we're halfway thru the season, we've won only 2 games & what Romeo & the defense have been doing is not working.....DAMN try something different!!! Anything!!!
 
Phoenix said:
If your blitz is fast enough & overwhelming enough you don't have to worry so much about the DB's. We may not be as fast as needed but hell we gave up 40 points in 1st half against Dolfins.....how much could it hurt to blitz more.....what difference does it make if we're getting slammed to begin with...lol....definition of insanity: doing the same thing over & over expecting different results.......I'm at this point....we're halfway thru the season, we've won only 2 games & what Romeo & the defense have been doing is not working.....DAMN try something different!!! Anything!!!
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It doesn't make much of a difference if you blitz or don't if you don't TACKLE someone.

If you don't set the edge, if you don't maintain lane integrity, if you over-pursue, if you don't do your job, the defense is going to look like absolute crap, but it's going to be even worse when you don't freaking tackle someone when you've got the opportunity.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
It doesn't make much of a difference if you blitz or don't if you don't TACKLE someone.

If you don't set the edge, if you don't maintain lane integrity, if you over-pursue, if you don't do your job, the defense is going to look like absolute crap, but it's going to be even worse when you don't freaking tackle someone when you've got the opportunity.
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............the FIRST opportunity...........not the fifth or six opportunity in the EZ..............
 
The Pencil Neck said:
It doesn't make much of a difference if you blitz or don't if you don't TACKLE someone.

If you don't set the edge, if you don't maintain lane integrity, if you over-pursue, if you don't do your job, the defense is going to look like absolute crap, but it's going to be even worse when you don't freaking tackle someone when you've got the opportunity.
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Yea I agree I wrote a post other day about tackling....your spot on.... I guess I'm so desperate to see Romeo try SOMETHING...ANYTHING different at this point.
 
What I keep seeing from Texan defense is no pressure on QB's.....this puts tremendous pressure on DB's & when u don't have great DB's this exposes them. I realize this blitzing thing is a damned if u do damned if u don't situation but at this point I don't see that we have much to lose by trying it.....I'm not saying blitz every Dwn....just saying try some blitzing see how it does in certain situations especially against young QB's & low rated QB opponents. Against Aaron or Brady etc...no way...but if I'm DC I'm stepping up the blitz against teams like Titans etc.
 
Kc hit us week 1 with a 3 step 5 step quick passing game. They did so because previous to the season week 1 anyone would look at our front 7 and see watt / clowney. Gotta move fast. We never adjusted. Our cbs are off the line 8-12 yards allowing a quick passing game. Surely Romeo noticed? The only explanation for not moving cbs up is because Romeo doesnt trust his safetys.
 
powda said:
We never adjusted. Our cbs are off the line 8-12 yards allowing a quick passing game. Surely Romeo noticed? The only explanation for not moving cbs up is because Romeo doesnt trust his safetys.
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Or because when you know the ball is coming out quickly, you want your DBs facing the QB. That way it's easier for them to make a play on the ball.

It's not the coaches fault that the DBs don't recognize when the ball is in play.

Or the safeties job is to come down & support the run, cover a TE/WR/RB, or they're supposed to rotate underneath the coverage.

There was a time when our corners played press coverage on every down. We complained about that too.

I don't think it's a question of what techniques are used, or how often. Our guys just aren't smart enough to play the game.
 
The amount of solid players taken after Clowney in that draft is really depressing.

Haha Clinton-Dix, Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. off the top of my head.
 
htownfan32 said:
The amount of solid players taken after Clowney in that draft is really depressing.

Haha Clinton-Dix, Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. off the top of my head.
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Yeah, we took the guy who had problems motivating himself that also had bone spurs he was dealing with. We sure look good on that now with that one sack that Clowney has through 28 games since we've drafted him.
 
Texecutioner said:
Yeah, we took the guy who had problems motivating himself that also had bone spurs he was dealing with. We sure look good on that now with that one sack that Clowney has through 28 games since we've drafted him.
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I didn't like the pick.

No motivation issue has shown in Houston.

No bone spur problem has shown in Houston.

The guy had a knee injury so 28 games is a joke. Could happen to anyone.

Why do you feel this need to be so vituperative?
 
infantrycak said:
I didn't like the pick.

No motivation issue has shown in Houston.

No bone spur problem has shown in Houston.

The guy had a knee injury so 28 games is a joke. Could happen to anyone.

Why do you feel this need to be so vituperative?
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You know the answer to that I-cak, because the facts don't fit the narrative he's been pushing since day one.
 
htownfan32 said:
The amount of solid players taken after Clowney in that draft is really depressing.

Haha Clinton-Dix, Khalil Mack, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr. off the top of my head.
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Maybe it was fate that ruined Clowney's knee. Non-contact at NRG. Who's to say any of those guys wouldn't have seen the same fate had we drafted them?

All that good sht they said about Clowney before the draft... I can see that. When he's on the field, in practice, in the locker room. All there.

All the bad sht they said about him... haven't seen it. Haven't heard it. Haven't a clue where that crap came from.
 
well good thing we got a Bye ..........

over this bye clowney needs to learn how to get by Chop blocks like the announcer said never try and jump over it u lose power if your in the air for Clowns size he should just run over the block all the time SMash his head to the tuff or Crub stomp the player do something LOL ....
 
Norg said:
well good thing we got a Bye ..........

over this bye clowney needs to learn how to get by Chop blocks like the announcer said never try and jump over it u lose power if your in the air for Clowns size he should just run over the block all the time SMash his head to the tuff or Crub stomp the player do something LOL ....
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Yeah... people need to stop thinking these announcers know what they're talking about.

Was that Solomon Wilcox? Dude wouldn't know the first thing about "driving thru a cut block."

Brian Cushing tried to run through one a couple of years ago without jumping. Didn't end well for him.

You either got to get your hands down, push the defender down, push him below the knees. Or jump over it. Get the cleats out of the ground.
 
infantrycak said:
I didn't like the pick.

No motivation issue has shown in Houston.

No bone spur problem has shown in Houston.

The guy had a knee injury so 28 games is a joke. Could happen to anyone.

Why do you feel this need to be so vituperative?
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I've seen plenty of motivation out of Clowney. I also see lots of effort. Question the pick all you want, but the dude knows the defense and puts forth all the effort you can ask for.
 
thunderkyss said:
That's what he's saying.
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Thx

DocBar said:
I've seen plenty of motivation out of Clowney. I also see lots of effort. Question the pick all you want, but the dude knows the defense and puts forth all the effort you can ask for.
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What I'm saying is as much as I didn't like the pick, my concerns haven't proven true. Within the context of his injury he has done everything he can for the Texans from what I can tell.

Unless you were predicting a blown out microfracture knee you need to shut up and stop gloating. A freak injury doesn't make you right that he was lazy.
 
Can we please move Clowney back to DE where he belongs before someone breaks his knees? The transition has obviously not worked out well for him.

Let Mercilus be the starter. He killed it today with 3.5 sacks.
 
Norg said:
well good thing we got a Bye ..........

over this bye clowney needs to learn how to get by Chop blocks like the announcer said never try and jump over it u lose power if your in the air for Clowns size he should just run over the block all the time SMash his head to the tuff or Crub stomp the player do something LOL ....
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I wonder if the knee injuries make getting his pad level low more difficult or even impossible?
 
I'd just like to see more than a highlight roll worth of snaps from him in an NFL season. Call it back luck or what you will, but he isn't helping anyone from the sidelines.
 
Bill O’Brien defends Texans linebacker Jadeveon Clowney after latest injury setback
By Aaron Wilson on November 1, 2015 at 8:26 PM

Texans coach Bill O’Brien defended outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney after his latest injury setback.

Clowney hurt his lower back in the first half Sunday and was unable to continue after going to the locker room for further examination.

Clowney’s injury was muscular with no structural damage. He was replaced by Whitney Mercilus, who recorded a career-high 3 ½ sacks.

Clowney had one tackle Sunday. He has one sack in two NFL seasons.

The top overall pick last year, Clowney had microfracture knee surgery in December along with a meniscus procedure, sports hernia surgery and a concussion as a rookie. This year, he’s had a sprained right ankle and an illness.

“He’s had some unlucky injuries,” O’Brien said of Clowney, a two-time All-American at South Carolina. “I don’t think you can determine a career on a year-and-a-half. This guy’s got a lot of football left in him. When he has played, he’s played very well. He was disruptive today before he was injured.

“Hopefully, they’re things that have happened in clusters in the beginning of his career and he’ll be able to recover from them and be a great player for us here in Houston.”
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This article misrepresents the chronology of events surrounding Clowney's latest injury [see bolded blue in the article above]. After a play, where Clowney's right leg at the hip was overabducted (pulled laterally away from his body) which left him limping, he left the game and was examined in the locker room for a potential hip/back problem. He later came back and returned to play, still limping........and was put back into the game, where he again suffered a torque to his hip and back after which he again left the game limping badly and was taken to the locker room to be examined a second time. He never returned after that. During the game, I was screaming at the TV....why the heck is he allowed to come back after the first episode, obviously limping and injured?
 
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