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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

So Glazer just said teams are calling about trading for JD and the Texans are saying no. Interesting.
 
I'd be very interested to understand what level of offers they are fielding.

If we are talking premier player at a position of need plus a good draft pick then they'd be fools not to consider it.

Right now we are stacked with edge defenders with youth coming through behind. Severe shortages at LT, CB, RB all would pique my interest.

You fix a hole, add a pick, and have cap space left to go out and make huge upgrades to this team in the off-season as well as helping our chances in season.

Obviously if the value isn't there then you don't move on a premium player though.
 
Just for context: Clowney pro bowl 2016 [second team all pro] and 2017. Stats 2017 with Watt out 12 games=
16 games 52 tackles 9 sacks 21 TFL 20 QB hits 2 pass defended and 2 forced fumble (one TD).
2018 with JJ playing as the younger JJ
7 games 20 tackles 4.5 sacks 9 TFL 10 QB hits recovered 2 fumbles one for TD
extrapolated 46 tackles 10 sacks 20 TFL 22 QB hits.

Health issues recognized but some teams are going to want to pay for a third year pro bowler whose contract they control for 2 1/2 years. Perhaps that does include Houston but I'm thinking they are waiting for better offers and perhaps bidding war. Texans may be where Arizona is with Peterson.

EDIT: If Texans open to trade: Clowney to New England for their round one and we swap our own second round (#57 ish) for their own (#60 ish).
 
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Shishkabob said:
Unfortunately McNair's fear of being a bottom dweller team lead him to make a bad decision at a crucial time, retaining Rick Smith when he fired Kubiak. Now we are left in this weird limbo period of being year 5 with O'Brien, but year 1 of O'Brien with a GM that he is supposedly aligned with. So now we are in a chicken and the egg situation where do we truly know how good or bad OB is as a coach, or was he just not getting his players. 5 years into a coach there should be no questions left, but here we are. I don't doubt O'Brien getting his players to stay together, and play hard every game. I do question his offensive philosophy, and his ability to get players to execute his system.
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This is a lot of ways this is a replay of the Smith hire where a coach gets the GM he wants to work with. That GM then does not have the authority to fire the coach based on the relationship and/or corporate structure of the Texans. We will see the results are different.
 
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having Watt, Clowney, Watson and Hopkins as possible Pro Bowl nominees would be really cool. Spotrack has Clowney worth a six year 100 million contract at almost $17 per that would put him in with the rest and 2019 if tagged as top 5 avg about same. The guaranteed $ is where he would lose if tagged twice compared to others. Watt for example doesn't get to that annual base until his last contract year and will be 32 YOA but had $52 guaranteed.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
This is a lot of ways this is a replay of the Smith hire where a coach gets the GM he wants to work with. That GM then does not have the authority to fire the coach based on the relationship and/or corporate structure of the Texans. We will see the results are different.
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Gaine is off to a terrific start.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Being 5-3 and the favorites to win your division makes this play for the Texans.
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I was an advocate of trading Clowney for the right deal earlier this year before our record got to where it's at now, and it improved very rapidly.
Now as a division leader at the midpoint of the season with a favorable schedule the remainder of the season we are clearly in the hunt for a P/O spot: actually the AFC South division title with a home-field wildcard game is ours to lose right now. This is what it's all about !
 
badboy said:
having Watt, Clowney, Watson and Hopkins as possible Pro Bowl nominees would be really cool. Spotrack has Clowney worth a six year 100 million contract at almost $17 per that would put him in with the rest and 2019 if tagged as top 5 avg about same. The guaranteed $ is where he would lose if tagged twice compared to others. Watt for example doesn't get to that annual base until his last contract year and will be 32 YOA but had $52 guaranteed.
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Don't forget KJax .. he's having a GREAT year all pro worthy.
 
IDEXAN said:
So Clowney will be going up against 2nd year Denver tackle Garret Bolles - oh yea I like JD in that matchup.
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I think Doc said Clowney is dealing with a groin issue.

May be best for the Texans to sit him this week. Get Mercilus & Edgefor (sp) some work.
 
Good example of JDCs value often overlooked by the stat argument.

https://theathletic.com/682086/2018...uston-texans-defense-lining-up-sack-pressure/

It was first-and-10, but the play was already over.

As Marcus Mariota barked out signals on the offensive line, Jadeveon Clowney crept down from playing middle linebacker and lined up right between Titans guard Josh Kline and center Ben Jones. The Titans were about to try to pull left guard Quinton Spain to the outside, trying to run directly at J.J. Watt. That meant that Jones was going to have to climb to his left and get Angelo Blackson at interior tackle, which would leave Kline to deal with Clowney, one-on-one.

Dion Lewis had no choice but to cut back to his left, into a crowd of Texans that had the line well-controlled. The referee threw a penalty flag. Holding, on Kline, because the NFL doesn’t have a separate category for outright tackling a defender. According to Pro Football Focus, Kline was the victim of a team-high nine pressures allowed on Monday night. The above wasn’t a passing play, so it wasn’t even one of them.

Romeo Crennel doesn’t have a real interior rushing talent with J.J. Watt playing most of his snaps outside this year. So he’s had to get creative. The result has been one of the most threatening things in football: All 6-foot-5, 255 pounds of Jadeveon Clowney heading towards the interior of your favorite team’s offensive line like a freight train.

Some lines can stifle him. Some lines can hold him and get away with it. Almost none of these poor interior linemen can hold up, one-on-one, against something like Clowney revved up and heading downhill. Even the plays where the offensive line “wins” typically involve them getting pushed deep into the backfield, eating at the space a quarterback has to make a proper throw.

When teams have to prepare for this possibility with Clowney off the line of scrimmage, they often have to commit extra players to the cause. Here’s a sack that was split by Watt and Christian Covington on second-and-21, with the Titans trying desperately to get points with 1:14 left in the second quarter.

The center, Jones, helps out with Spain on Clowney, which means that they have three guys on one side of the line, along with a play-action fake, trying to contain just that side of the line. Or, in layman’s terms, it means they were so concerned about Clowney that they left Watt singled up on right tackle Jack Conklin. Watt is able to disengage with Conklin on terrific technique, and Covington is able to finish off the sack with Mariota stumbling to try to retain his balance.

Standing up Clowney is still somewhat of a change-up for Crennel’s defense. I’d estimate based on careful tape watching that it comes out maybe once or twice per drive. But it does a couple of things that are invaluable for this defense, and I would argue it is the best package that the Texans currently employ:

  1. It lets Whitney Mercilus rush off the edge, which is by far the spot he is most comfortable in and where most of his damage in pass pressure comes from
  2. It lets Crennel target the matchup he most wants to exploit: The weakest link on the offensive line. Against the Titans, it was mainly Kline, for reasons made obvious by the box score.
  3. There’s something to be said for the pure mayhem of what an offensive line has to do when Clowney is targeting a gap on the interior. As I talked about in a piece about Brennan Scarlett’s impact during the Washington game, Clowney standing up essentially got Scarlett a free ride to the quarterback. If an offense adjusts to try to contain Clowney, it is making every matchup along the line easier for Houston to win one-on-one.
As Texans outside linebackers coach John Pagano put it: “[What] RAC (Romeo Crennel) does to move him around and not get a true beat on where he lines up [is working]. He’s a very disruptive player and I think moving forward you always want that guy to have that disruption and to be able to truly come up the different alignments of where he aligns. So, that’s been good.”

Yes, indeed, it’s been good.

On third-and-20 at the Tennessee 41, in the third quarter, the Titans were in need of a deep shot to keep a once-promising drive going after back-to-back sacks. Clowney again lined up on the interior and threatened over Kline. Kline looked back at Mariota, he and Jones both eyed Clowney, but in the end, to make a shot play work, you have to take a chance. They left Kline one-on-one.

Kline got beat badly to the outside. The Titans were actually relatively fortunate that Mariota was able to make anything out of what happened, flipping it to Lewis for 11 yards underneath. It was yet another play in which Clowney standing up led directly to a punt.

The only issue that the Texans have had with the strategy is that he sometimes tries to anticipate the snap count and jumps the play too early. He jumped offsides doing this once against the Bills in Week 6, but you might be surprised to learn that he’s actually been called offsides more often on the outside. I’ve got three for him on the outside compared to once inside. However, he sometimes resets and you’ll get a play like Corey Davis’ third-quarter touchdown, where he isn’t technically offsides but removes himself from the play as a rusher:

Titans guard Spain a) does a hell of a job taking advantage of his opening to push an off-balance Clowney to the left side, and b) does an amazing job picking up Zach Cunningham on the back end of the play to ensure that Mariota has a perfect pocket to unleash the touchdown throw. That’s a tip-your-hat moment right there.

But, as Texans defensive line coach Anthony Weaver said: “…From an offensive standpoint, not knowing where he’s going to be is a problem and it consistently shows up week after week after week.”

That it does. Houston’s defense is extremely aggressive and loves to get after the quarterback with a number of different stunts and designs. But for my money, nothing the Texans do is more fun and popcorn-worthy than the look on an interior offensive lineman’s face when he realizes he’s about to get singled up with Clowney. Because when that happens, havoc is about to ensue somewhere. And it’s usually not going to end well for the offense.

(Top photo: Troy Taormina-USA TODAY Sports)
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klockWork said:
As soon as Luck went with the hard count to get the D to jump, I zero in on #90 and had a horrible realization that he hasn't jump all game yet and is due pretty soon and might be right now. Smh

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
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If Clowney had a brain he would have realized that Luck was trying to draw him offsides. Used to be, he would not have been flagged since he didn't touch an offender and got back before the ball was snapped.
 
Seegara said:
If Clowney had a brain he would have realized that Luck was trying to draw him offsides. Used to be, he would not have been flagged since he didn't touch an offender and got back before the ball was snapped.
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That means nothing.............once he jumps across..........alert OLinemen will immediately purposely jump and try to hit (make contact with) a D.........which makes the fact that he gets back before the ball is snapped a moot point........which iis exactly what happened.
 
I can't help but think that Clowney is in Leveon Bell self preservation mode. He hasn't been the same for over a month, mentally clocked out at the worst times and marginally effective on the field.
 
Seegara said:
If Clowney had a brain he would have realized that Luck was trying to draw him offsides. Used to be, he would not have been flagged since he didn't touch an offender and got back before the ball was snapped.
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The game was lost way before Clowney was drawn offside.

If you wanted to sum the Texans' performance up in one play, this is the perfect one. Just stupid all day.
 
I called it from my living room and I'm sure I wasn't alone. We all knew JDC was going to jump off sides didn't we? We can all admit it. WE KNEW it was going to HAPPEN. The only one that didn't know was JDC himself. The guy was a non-factor yesterday when we really could've used him against the best QB we've faced.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think that was hyperbloe.

Or atleast I hope it was.

I post things like this sometimes and in no way am I condoning mass murder.
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Have you read his other posts?

I don't post things like that, and in my mind there is a clear difference between flipping someone off and telling them you can't wait to kill them and others like them. Maybe that's just me. Anyway, not the right forum for this. You want to continue, message me privately, or we can take it to NSZ.
 
paycheck71 said:
Have you read his other posts?

I don't post things like that, and in my mind there is a clear difference between flipping someone off and telling them you can't wait to kill them and others like them. Maybe that's just me. Anyway, not the right forum for this. You want to continue, message me privately, or we can take it to NSZ.
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I'm trying to cut back my NSZ time.

Even though I may say some things that are crazy, I hope you dont think of me in the same light as this.
 
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Seegara said:
he would not have been flagged since he didn't touch an offender and got back before the ball was snapped.
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not only did he not touch anyone, I don't think he even went over the LOS.

CloakNNNdagger said:
That means nothing.............once he jumps across..........alert OLinemen will immediately purposely jump and try to hit (make contact with) a D.........which makes the fact that he gets back before the ball is snapped a moot point........which iis exactly what happened.
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Except they don't, all they have to do now is stand up and point at the defender that jumped. That olineman never had any intention of making contact with Clowney yesterday.

Stupid rule!
 
First of all, I sympathize with Clowney after not getting an extension. He kept the defensive line together in Watt's absence. And he still deserves credit for coming back from that serious knee injury.

He didn't lose the game himself--except that I gave him credit for winning the 1st Colts game himself with his big sack at the end and fumble recovery for a TD--ignoring his multiple penalties. He was DPOW then. So he can be the goat now. After forcing several QBs into INTs this year, I thought his rush was weak vs the Colts.

We finally have Clowney, Watt and Mercilus playing together with Covington, Dunn and Reader exceeding expectations, and it still takes CB or safety blitzes to bring pressure, so I don't think it's working at 100% effectiveness. Clowney's weight I found ranges anywhere between 255-275 online, but he looks more slender to me than last year, maybe that's an illusion. Was it a plan to maximize his body for speed, because he seems to ignore his power rush a lot this year, content to slip between blockers and around the pocket--teams obviously run the ball inside him, knowing he'll run right past. I've never seen a player right next to a QB so many times NOT get a sack. He sometimes swipes at the ball and grabs instead of tackling. Just another way he seems undisciplined. And at least face reporters and not hide like a 10-year-old.

I'm sure he'll have 5 TFLs and 3 sacks vs the Jets Saturday to make up for this week.
 
txtx said:
First of all, I sympathize with Clowney after not getting an extension. He kept the defensive line together in Watt's absence. And he still deserves credit for coming back from that serious knee injury.

He didn't lose the game himself--except that I gave him credit for winning the 1st Colts game himself with his big sack at the end and fumble recovery for a TD--ignoring his multiple penalties. He was DPOW then. So he can be the goat now. After forcing several QBs into INTs this year, I thought his rush was weak vs the Colts.

We finally have Clowney, Watt and Mercilus playing together with Covington, Dunn and Reader exceeding expectations, and it still takes CB or safety blitzes to bring pressure, so I don't think it's working at 100% effectiveness. Clowney's weight I found ranges anywhere between 255-275 online, but he looks more slender to me than last year, maybe that's an illusion. Was it a plan to maximize his body for speed, because he seems to ignore his power rush a lot this year, content to slip between blockers and around the pocket--teams obviously run the ball inside him, knowing he'll run right past. I've never seen a player right next to a QB so many times NOT get a sack. He sometimes swipes at the ball and grabs instead of tackling. Just another way he seems undisciplined. And at least face reporters and not hide like a 10-year-old.

I'm sure he'll have 5 TFLs and 3 sacks vs the Jets Saturday to make up for this week.
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Clowney's a lot like this team imo. Hard to figure out. Sometimes amazing, sometimes not very impressive. And generally more highly regarded by those not following the team closely than by those who are.
 
TejasTom said:
The game was lost way before Clowney was drawn offside.

If you wanted to sum the Texans' performance up in one play, this is the perfect one. Just stupid all day.
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While I agree with the intent of your statement..because the team as a whole looked like trash... I disagree with NOT putting this on Clowney though.

We all make mistakes, I can even over look most of DW's part of the day (He HAS to get better, but he is still young.) Clowney.... its not his rookie season and even IF it were..... drawing the defense offsides is the football equivalent of "What's that on your shirt?" or "I got your nose" its shameful if anyone falls for it above the age of 5.

As a team they collectively looked like trash, but there WAS hope at the end that Clowney flushed down the toilet because he didn't think. I would put money on it that Luck knew EXACTLY who would bite. Thats the problem.
 
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