The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

[infantrycak]

The scoreboard of McNair's winning percentage confirms my ridiculous seating theory

Epic non sequitur.

 

[IDEXAN]

Coaches are like every other profession, there is the creme of the crop. Lew Holtz told me that the reason he was so successful is because he knew how to win more more football games than his fellow coaches. The same can be said for Jimbo Fisher and Urban Meyer, they are the creme of crop. All they do is WIN! In addition they both have a GREAT eye for talent illustrated by their Top 3 recruiting classes every year. They say it takes 10,000 hours of practice to perfect your craft. Well Fisher and Meyer have spent their time being the Best of the Best.

Bum Phillips explained it best when he was asked about Don Shula, Bum said, "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n". That's Fisher and Meyer.

Coaches like Fisher and Meyer will want full and complete control because they have earned it and can get it. And because coaches like Jimmy Johnson, Steve Spurrier and Nick Saban are telling them that's the only way to do it. Do a deal like Pete Carroll or don't do one at all. The fly in the ointment for the Texans IMHO is Bob McNair is not willing to relinquish that control. McNair is a hands on micro manager owner more like a Jerry Jones and not so much a hands off and let the people I hired fully do their job like Paul Allen, Bob Kraft or even a Steven Bisciotti. In essence McNair is not willing to to give up control to hire the Best of the Best so he tries to maneuver his way around it which is also a pattern of how he manages his ball club.

OK Texian, I appreciate your exhaustive response. And you make a lot of sense on most of your points however, I gots to disagree with you about your opinion on our owner because fortunately for we Texans fans, he is IMO the antithesis of an owner like Jerry Jones. But thanks for telling me your thoughts about Fisher and other coachs.

 

[paycheck71]

Lew Holtz told me that the reason he was so successful is because he knew how to win more more football games than his fellow coaches.

Sounds to me like he was about as insightful with you as this analyst before a Padres game.

 

[Texian]

Epic non sequitur.

Epic cop out! - When the scoreboard says McNair's winning percentage crosses above the .500 threshold lets talk again.

OK Texian, I appreciate your exhaustive response. And you make a lot of sense on most of your points however, I gots to disagree with you about your opinion on our owner because fortunately for we Texans fans, he is IMO the antithesis of an owner like Jerry Jones. But thanks for telling me your thoughts about Fisher and other coachs.

Of course you do but there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other. You are part of a large following who have bought the Texans Marketing Plan that Bob McNair is the finest owner in sports.

Sounds to me like he was about as insightful with you as this analyst before a Padres game.

Except that Holtz was not a TV baseball analyst, he was a football coach who walked the talk for over a generation and won a lot more games than his brethren in the process.

 

[thunderkyss]

Why is it some can do it year in and year out and others not so much.

A little off topic, I was watching a football life yesterday. It was the Jimmy Smith Keenan McArdel episode & I had forgot Jimmy Johnson drafted Jimmy Smith.

He was a bust for the Cowboys. Yet the Cowboys still won championships the two years he was with the Cowboys.

I agree with you, some guys are just better at picking talent & using it the right way.

Jimmy was also one of those guys, but he was also good enough to overcome a bad pick, or a pick that didn't go his way.

 

[Texecutioner]

Since your handle also begins with TEX like Texian and you share a low opinion of Clowney with him are you two one in the same ?

Are you guys that foolish as football fans that you just can't understand how people would be doubting a bust of a #1 draft pick of an entire draft when the team had all types of needs to fill? Is it really that hard to understand that other fans aren't these naive homers that think every move the organization does is a smart one? Especially when discussing an organization that has had right around the same success as the Cleveland Browns since their inception? And you guys wonder why Texian acts so arrogant in some of his posts. It isn't because he wants to. Believe me. It is the jaw dropping hyperbole of hype you guys put on athletes the minute they get drafted here even after they under achieve tremendously. It is like talking to those people on those election videos that have no idea what is going on with any of the candidates, but they'll tell how great one of them is even when the interviewer tells them the opposite policies like they did in Harlem. That is the kind of thing I'd compare it to honestly.

 

[paycheck71]

Except that Holtz was not a TV baseball analyst, he was a football coach who walked the talk for over a generation and won a lot more games than his brethren in the process.

Wasn't making fun of Holtz, more of you that you took his BS answers to actually mean something. Based on your description, your conversation with him went something like this

You: What's the secret to your success?
Holtz: I know how to be successful.

Or maybe like this

You: What's the key to you being able to win so more games than your opponents?
Holtz: I know how to win more games than my opponents.

 

[Texian]

Wasn't making fun of Holtz, more of you that you took his BS answers to actually mean something. Based on your description, your conversation with him went something like this

You: What's the secret to your success?
Holtz: I know how to be successful.

Or maybe like this

You: What's the key to you being able to win so more games than your opponents?
Holtz: I know how to win more games than my opponents.

You really should give some serious consideration to expanding your mind and broadening your thinking.

 

[paycheck71]

You really should give some serious consideration to expanding your mind and broadening your thinking.

Yet another instance of you needing to take your own advice.

Seriously, how anyone can get anything insightful or "mind expanding" out of "I'm successful because I know how to win" is beyond me. But it really doesn't surprise me in your case because that's the kind of oversimplified BS "analysis" you usually provide. People succeed and win not because they're "winners" but because of actual tangible things like working hard, studying their craft, paying meticulous attention to detail, etc.

 

[Texian]

Yet another instance of you needing to take your own advice.

Seriously, how anyone can get anything insightful or "mind expanding" out of "I'm successful because I know how to win" is beyond me. But it really doesn't surprise me in your case because that's the kind of oversimplified BS "analysis" you usually provide. People succeed and win not because they're "winners" but because of actual tangible things like working hard, studying their craft, paying meticulous attention to detail, etc.

 

[thunderkyss]

Shark week starts tomorrow

 

[Texecutioner]

Shark week starts tomorrow

 

[False Start]

BREAKING NEWS!

Clowney was at a Birthday Party, he couldn't help himself when the song came on, so started doing "The Humpty-HUmp" tore both ACLs, and suffered a severe lower back injury. Details to follow.....

He gave a brief statement saying "I feel better every day, and just want to be the best teammate I can be."

 

[IDEXAN]

Are you guys that foolish as football fans that you just can't understand how people would be doubting a bust of a #1 draft pick of an entire draft when the team had all types of needs to fill? Is it really that hard to understand that other fans aren't these naive homers that think every move the organization does is a smart one? Especially when discussing an organization that has had right around the same success as the Cleveland Browns since their inception? And you guys wonder why Texian acts so arrogant in some of his posts. It isn't because he wants to. Believe me. It is the jaw dropping hyperbole of hype you guys put on athletes the minute they get drafted here even after they under achieve tremendously. It is like talking to those people on those election videos that have no idea what is going on with any of the candidates, but they'll tell how great one of them is even when the interviewer tells them the opposite policies like they did in Harlem. That is the kind of thing I'd compare it to honestly.

Wow, why so much animosity ? It was 3 years ago, life goes on. Please tell me you've got more important issues in your life to obsess about.

 

[DocBar]

Well, the Texans hope Clowney has had as many injuries as he needs to have.

When the Texans took linebacker Jadeveon Clowney with the first overall pick of the 2014 draft, their hope was that he’d team with defensive end J.J. Watt to lift the team’s defense to the top of the league.

Injuries have kept that from happening. Clowney has missed 15 regular season games and last year’s playoff loss to the Chiefs because of a variety of injuries, leaving his potential unfulfilled as he heads into his third season.

Linebackers coach Mike Vrabel said that he saw increased resolve from Clowney on the field and in the classroom during this year’s offseason program, something that he believes Clowney needs to make a bigger impact for the Texans in 2016. That can’t happen unless he’s healthy, of course, and there’s not much that General Manager Rick Smith and the rest of the team can do but hope that’s the case.

“When he’s been on the field, he’s been pretty disruptive, pretty impactful,” Smith said, via the Houston Chronicle. “It’s just that he has suffered some injuries, which you would hope is that he’s already had as many as he needs to have, right? Just from a standpoint of luck, hopefully the guy has had his share of injuries and he will have an opportunity to play for an extended amount of time because I think what you see, when you see him on the field, you see productive play. He’s going to work at that. Some of those injuries it’s not like he’s getting hurt because he’s not working. The nature of the injuries he’s had are not such that it’s an indicator of the guy’s not being conditioned or ready to play. It’s just the nature of the game. Hopefully, he’s had his share of them and he’ll be on the field consistently.”

There were flashes of good play for Clowney last season, but missing Week 17 and the playoff loss meant the year ended on another down note and the questions about his durability remain firmly in place. Should they still be in place after the 2016 season, the Texans’ hopefulness may give away to resignation that Clowney’s health won’t allow him to make good on their expectations.

 

[Texian]

Yet another instance of you needing to take your own advice.

Seriously, how anyone can get anything insightful or "mind expanding" out of "I'm successful because I know how to win" is beyond me. But it really doesn't surprise me in your case because that's the kind of oversimplified BS "analysis" you usually provide. People succeed and win not because they're "winners" but because of actual tangible things like working hard, studying their craft, paying meticulous attention to detail, etc.

Well if you had been seated at the table for our 3 hour discussion your mind would be expanded, your thinking broaden and you would have a better understanding of why Lou was so much more successful than other Head Coaches of his time.

 

[Texian]

Well, the Texans hope Clowney has had as many injuries as he needs to have.

When the Texans took linebacker Jadeveon Clowney with the first overall pick of the 2014 draft, their hope was that he’d team with defensive end J.J. Watt to lift the team’s defense to the top of the league.

Injuries have kept that from happening. Clowney has missed 15 regular season games and last year’s playoff loss to the Chiefs because of a variety of injuries, leaving his potential unfulfilled as he heads into his third season.

Linebackers coach Mike Vrabel said that he saw increased resolve from Clowney on the field and in the classroom during this year’s offseason program, something that he believes Clowney needs to make a bigger impact for the Texans in 2016. That can’t happen unless he’s healthy, of course, and there’s not much that General Manager Rick Smith and the rest of the team can do but hope that’s the case.

“When he’s been on the field, he’s been pretty disruptive, pretty impactful,” Smith said, via the Houston Chronicle. “It’s just that he has suffered some injuries, which you would hope is that he’s already had as many as he needs to have, right? Just from a standpoint of luck, hopefully the guy has had his share of injuries and he will have an opportunity to play for an extended amount of time because I think what you see, when you see him on the field, you see productive play. He’s going to work at that. Some of those injuries it’s not like he’s getting hurt because he’s not working. The nature of the injuries he’s had are not such that it’s an indicator of the guy’s not being conditioned or ready to play. It’s just the nature of the game. Hopefully, he’s had his share of them and he’ll be on the field consistently.”

There were flashes of good play for Clowney last season, but missing Week 17 and the playoff loss meant the year ended on another down note and the questions about his durability remain firmly in place. Should they still be in place after the 2016 season, the Texans’ hopefulness may give away to resignation that Clowney’s health won’t allow him to make good on their expectations.

Listening and reading Rick Smith can really make your head spin but ultimately Rick thinks Clowney's success comes down to Hope and Luck. Good Grief!

 

[noxiousdog]

Well if you had been seated at the table for our 3 hour discussion your mind would be expanded, your thinking broaden and you would have a better understanding of why Lou was so much more successful than other Head Coaches of his time.

I'm pretty sure he was 3-10 as an NFL Head Coach.

Even with the albatross of McNair ( ) , O'Brien hasn't had a season that bad.

 

[paycheck71]

Well if you had been seated at the table for our 3 hour discussion your mind would be expanded, your thinking broaden and you would have a better understanding of why Lou was so much more successful than other Head Coaches of his time.

No doubt it would have if I had been there. But it sounds like after talking to the guy for 3 hours, the thing that impressed you the most was that "to be successful you have to know how to be successful."

 

[Texian]

I'm pretty sure he was 3-10 as an NFL Head Coach.

Even with the albatross of McNair ( ) , O'Brien hasn't had a season that bad.

Well the story on that is in only his 2nd week of practice with the Jets he knew hated coaching in the NFL and that he would be returning to college after one year in the NFL.

No doubt it would have if I had been there. But it sounds like after talking to the guy for 3 hours, the thing that impressed you the most was that "to be successful you have to know how to be successful."

Well Mr. Know It All, since you weren't sitting at the table you have no idea and you'll never know.

 

[Mr teX]

Why is it some can do it year in and year out and others not so much. Why is it some are always top of their class successful no matter where they go and others not so much. Why is USC so successful with Carroll and not so much w/o him? Same is true for Meyer and OSU and Fisher and FSU???

The same reason mediocore coaches like Les Miles & Mack Brown could/can consistently do it....school/program money & prestige. As top recruits of their respective classes, I doubt Tebow/Harvin are entertaining Urban Meyer's offer to come play for him if he's the HC from the University of Houston as opposed to the University of Florida.

 

[paycheck71]

Well Mr. Know It All, since you weren't sitting at the table you have no idea and you'll never know.

Ohhh, bolded font. Are you actually calling someone else a know it all? That's funny. All I did was point out that while you were trying to enlighten and educate us common folk from your 3 hour dinner with Holtz, the one priceless nugget of wisdom you chose to mention was basically a useless tautology

 

[PapaL]

Can y'all stop this pissing contest or at least take it elsewhere?!?

 

[JB]

Can y'all stop this pissing contest or at least take it elsewhere?!?

You don't find it humorous?

 

[PapaL]

You don't find it humorous?

No, I don't find the constant notifications on a thread I'm interested in humoring. If there's a Clowney thread there's Texian crying about the pick and telling us all how stupid we and the FO are. Take it to the random thread.

 

[steelbtexan]

You really should give some serious consideration to expanding your mind and broadening your thinking.

Will never happen

Some people cant even admit that McNair and Jerrah are alot alike. Even though they have 2 of the most profitable sports franchises in the world, even though both have owned their franchises for a comparitively short amount of time. Halas family/Rooney/Mara etc...

 

[JB]

Will never happen

Some people cant even admit that McNair and Jerrah are alot alike. Even though they have 2 of the most profitable sports franchises in the world, even though both have owned their franchises for a comparitively short amount of time. Halas family/Rooney/Mara etc...

nvrmnd

 

[Seegara]

The same reason mediocore coaches like Les Miles & Mack Brown could/can consistently do it....school/program money & prestige. As top recruits of their respective classes, I doubt Tebow/Harvin are entertaining Urban Meyer's offer to come play for him if he's the HC from the University of Houston as opposed to the University of Florida.

Most head coaches have to learn to be good. Mack Brown never did, but Teapot seems to be learning.

 

[steelbtexan]

nvrmnd

So what I typed isn't true?

 

[JB]

So what I typed isn't true?

Never thought that.

 

[Mr teX]

Most head coaches have to learn to be good. Mack Brown never did, but Teapot seems to be learning.

It's the mark of a good HC....Mark of a good leader in anything period.

 

[PapaL]

https://www.seccountry.com/south-ca...-open-vape-shop-with-former-state-congressman

Jadeveon Clowney to open vape shop with former state congressman

Former South Carolina star and No. 1 overall draft pick Jadeveon Clowney is venturing into the business world.

With the help of Bakari Sellers, a former member of the South Carolina House of Representatives, Clowney will open KURE Columbia, a vape franchise that’s touted as a “revolutionary high-end, in-store retail and lounge experience” and comparable to a coffee shop.

Vaping is branded as an alternative for cigarette smokers. According to a press release, Clowney’s mother is counted among the 22 percent of South Carolinians that smoke cigarettes.

The invite-only opening is scheduled for July 19 at KURE’s Columbia location on Gervais Street.

Sellers, who gave up his House seat in 2014 to run for Lieutenant Governor, is counted among KURE’s Columbia investors, along with Ken and Cindy Long, recipients of the 2015 Garnet Award, which “symbolizes passion and devotion for Gamecock Athletics.”

Clowney will be the majority owner, and KURE will celebrate its grand opening with a July 19 private event. A portion of proceeds from the event will benefit The Jadeveon Clowney Help-In-Time Foundation, which helps local children of incarcerated parents.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

https://www.seccountry.com/south-ca...-open-vape-shop-with-former-state-congressman

Jadeveon Clowney to open vape shop with former state congressman

Just an aside comment. The FDA has banned any sales to minors, and for good reason. Yet those vaporium companies that specifically offer online orders are known by those companies to have a major portion of their products' sales come from those that should not have access. Not really a great business to get into when you are one of the professional "elite" athletes that are supposedly promoting a role model presence to the younger set.

 

[JB]

Just an aside comment. The FDA has banned any sales to minors, and for good reason. Yet those vaporium companies that specifically offer online orders are known by those companies to have a major portion of their products' sales come from those that should not have access. Not really a great business to get into when you are one of the professional "elite" athletes that are supposedly promoting a role model presence to the younger set.

Cigarettes and alcohol also banned to minors, but that hasn't done any good stopping them from getting them. And a Vape shop cafe is not on par with an online sales company

 

[Texian]

Just an aside comment. The FDA has banned any sales to minors, and for good reason. Yet those vaporium companies that specifically offer online orders are known by those companies to have a major portion of their products' sales come from those that should not have access. Not really a great business to get into when you are one of the professional "elite" athletes that are supposedly promoting a role model presence to the younger set.

Makes you wonder who is advising him....it certainly doesn't appear it's from a professional outfit.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Cigarettes and alcohol also banned to minors, but that hasn't done any good stopping them from getting them. And a Vape shop cafe is not on par with an online sales company

Certainly a good way to minimize the point.........if the shop was not a subsidiary of the big Kure marketing entity which makes the major portion of their revenues through the net. Go into any Kure vaporium and you will see heavy promotion for their online "services."

 

[JB]

Certainly a good way to minimize the point.........if the shop was not a subsidiary of the big Kure marketing entity which makes the major portion of their revenues through the net. Go into any Kure vaporium and you will see heavy promotion for their online "services."

I've never been in one and wouldn't know. I didn't pick up on first read that it was a franchise

 

[IDEXAN]

Makes you wonder who is advising him....it certainly doesn't appear it's from a professional outfit.

I dunno, but maybe Andre Johnsons uncle is providing JD with business and financial advice.

 

[mussop]

I heard vaping causes cervical cancer in men!

 

[pirbroke]

I heard vaping causes cervical cancer in men!

Lol, well let's hope Cushing stays away from vaping,

 

[Texecutioner]

I don't trust any of those e-cigs or tobacco vaping formulas they have. I'm not a tobacco smoker other than an occassional cigar, but I wouldn't trust all of this new technology that people are using to try and put their footprint in the tobacco industry. Not nearly enough studies or periods of time to see what the long term effects are. If people want to kill themselves by smoking tobacco long term, they might as well keep smoking their pack a day or whatever the amount is they smoke. At least they know what entails with that. It's death and emphysema, and that isn't pretty, but people all over the place seem okay with that as they feel it won't be until they're much older and dying.

 

[badboy]

I know several people using some brand of E-cigs and none are over 40. I think these are greatest tool made available ever. You can compare ingredients to those in cigarettes. What else could be a long term effect?

 

[Goatcheese]

I don't trust any of those e-cigs or tobacco vaping formulas they have. I'm not a tobacco smoker other than an occassional cigar, but I wouldn't trust all of this new technology that people are using to try and put their footprint in the tobacco industry. Not nearly enough studies or periods of time to see what the long term effects are. If people want to kill themselves by smoking tobacco long term, they might as well keep smoking their pack a day or whatever the amount is they smoke. At least they know what entails with that. It's death and emphysema, and that isn't pretty, but people all over the place seem okay with that as they feel it won't be until they're much older and dying.

Last year they found diacetyl (linked to popcorn lung) in some e-cigs despite not being listed on the ingredients panel. No thanks, I think I'll steak to inhaling air. It's dangerous enough.

 

[thunderkyss]

Last year they found diacetyl (linked to popcorn lung) in some e-cigs despite not being listed on the ingredients panel. No thanks, I think I'll steak to inhaling air. It's dangerous enough.

Good looking out. Not.

It's hard to know who to believe these days

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Good looking out. Not.

It's hard to know who to believe these days

The summary statement from the article:

Without a one-for-one comparison between the e-cig liquids and traditional cigarettes, the study is virtually meaningless. It is impossible to determine from the findings whether e-cigarettes pose a more significant risk for contracting popcorn lung than either working in a popcorn factory or smoking traditional cigarettes.

Seems they are willing to conceded that e-cigarettes present at least as significant a risk as either working in a popcorn factory or smoking traditional cigarettes. Not good.

But it's the genetic changes that would give me the greatest pause.:

Toxicology, Genetics, Health February 12, 2016
Vaping linked to host of new health risks
Potential effects span immunity to mental health and sperm to heart


RISKY PUFFS Many people assume e-cigarettes are a healthier alternative to smoking. But new animal data suggest vaping may pose immune risks — and possibly behavioral and reproductive risks for the children of women who vape during pregnancy.

WASHINGTON — Many people have turned to electronic cigarettes in hopes of avoiding the heart and cancer risks associated with smoking conventional tobacco products. But vaping appears far from benign, a trio of toxicologists reported February 11 and 12 at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting.

If used as a means to totally wean people off of tobacco products, then e-cigarettes might have value, concedes Ilona Jaspers of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. But she’s not sure. Unpublished data that she and the others presented at the meeting link e-cig products to a host of new risks. So vaping may not eliminate risks associated with conventional smoking, Jaspers maintains — “and may actually be introducing new ones.”

Her group examined scraped cells from the noses of otherwise healthy people who had a history of smoking, vaping or doing neither. The researchers then measured the activity levels in these cells of 594 genes associated with the body’s ability to fight infections. Among smokers, the activity of 53 genes was substantially diminished, compared with people who neither smoked nor vaped. Among vapers, those same 53 genes showed significantly diminished activity, Jaspers reported, as did 305 more.

The normal role of these genes would suggest that the lung tissue as well as nasal tissue of smokers — and especially vapers — “may be more susceptible to any kind of infection.”

To test that possibility, Jaspers’ team collected immune cells from healthy human volunteers, then exposed them to flavored liquids used in e-cigarettes. Tested cells included blood neutrophils and lung macrophages, both normally tasked with gobbling up and killing bacteria. Some of the liquids proved disturbingly effective at suppressing the ability of those immune cells to do their job, Jaspers reported.

One compound with a particularly suppressive effect on immune-gene activity was the cinnamon-flavored cinnamaldehyde. Jaspers said she was surprised to find cinnamaldehyde in some of the liquids, including the cola-flavored one.

Judy Zelikoff of New York University’s Langone Medical Center in Tuxedo looked at genes affected by e-cigarette vapors. Her group exposed mice developing in the womb, and for a month after birth, to vapors at concentrations calculated to be comparable to what a vaping person might encounter. Then she tracked the activity of genes in the animals’ frontal cortex, a brain region associated with planning and integrating the senses to understand the environment.

Whether the e-cig vapors contained nicotine made a big difference.

Males exposed to nicotine-laced vapors showed no gene-activity changes. Among females, vapors laced with nicotine appeared to alter the activity levels of 148 genes in the brain’s frontal cortex. But among rodents exposed to nicotine-free vapors, a whopping 830 or more genes in the frontal cortex showed substantially altered activity — either much higher or lower than in unexposed mice. Here, both males and females were about equally affected.

“Was I surprised” by this exaggerated effect of the no-nicotine group? “We were so surprised,” Zelikoff said, “that we repeated the [experiment] two more times.”

The nature of the gene changes would suggest affected animals would exhibit behavioral changes, including ones associated with mental illness, she said. To probe that a bit further, her group teamed up with researchers at the University of Rochester in New York. Both mice in the nicotine and no-nicotine group showed behavioral changes. When adult mice that had been exposed to e-cig vapors in the womb moved, they tended to do so at almost twice the pace as unexposed mice if the vapors had no nicotine. They moved faster still if they had been exposed to nicotine. Both groups of mice also jumped more. And mice exposed to vapors also stood on their hind legs more than those that had not been exposed. All of these “are behaviors that are reflective of increased — or hyper — activity,” Zelikoff reported, “and possibly agitation.” Her group is now exploring possible effects on memory and mental disorders.

Her group also uncovered reproductive problems in young-adult males exposed to e-cig vapors in the womb. Their sperm concentrations were roughly half the value as those in unexposed mice. And the motility of their sperm was only a fifth as high as in unexposed males.

Finally, exposing mice to e-cig vapors increased plaque buildup, which is a sign of emerging atherosclerosis, reported Daniel Conklin of the University of Louisville in Kentucky. Cigarette smoke did too. In both cases, he noted, it appears that toxic aldehydes, such as acrolein, formaldehyde and acetaldehyde, are contributors. As such, he concluded, it appears electronic cigarette vapors “could adversely impact the cardiovascular health of users.”

“We’re really at the beginning of understanding the toxicity of emerging products,” says Neal Benowitz of the University of California, San Francisco. But as presentations at the science meeting illustrated, he says, there is a lot of complexity to understanding what goes into the vapors and the tissues that may be at risk. Certainly, he says, there has been a general perception that vaping is safer than smoking. “The challenge to science,” he says, will be to tease out: “Is this really true?” For now, he says, “We really don’t know.”

Perhaps it’s true, Zelikoff says. “But I’m a firm believer in the precautionary principle.” If she were pregnant, she says, “I would look at these animal data with a great deal of respect.”

 

[badboy]

Doc wouldn't the key thing be if the E cig gets smokers off tobacco unless proven to cause cancer more quickly than tobacco; even if both were found to be equally harmful?

 

[infantrycak]

Talking about e-cigs in any generalities is somewhat off base. Many don't have any nicotine at all. Those that do have nicotine vary on a specified but wildly differing basis. What they generally don't have is the 8000 additives in cigarettes. Just don't think they are real conducive to they are or aren't dangerous. It would have to be more specific.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Doc wouldn't the key thing be if the E cig gets smokers off tobacco unless proven to cause cancer more quickly than tobacco; even if both were found to be equally harmful?

It usually takes many years, or decades, for the DNA damage from smoking to cause cancer and other diseases. Our bodies are designed to deal with a bit of damage but it’s hard for the body to cope with repeated long-term exposure to harmful chemicals. We know that e-cigs with and without (even more so) produce these same type DNA changes.........And with it, all the effects of immune deficiencies on our bodies. They have already been shown to cause atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) just like traditional cigarettes. E-cigarettes have not been followed in controlled studies over any valid period of time to discover all its health mal effects. With what we already know about this "product," once given the same concentrated attention to study that traditional cigarettes have received for the same lengths of time, I doubt that e-cigarettes will be proven to be any safer than traditional cigarettes.

As a male in his reproductive years, sperm numbers and motility both of which have been shown to be significantly decreased (creation of impotence) with vaping should be enough to have this group reconsider any use of e-cigs.

 

[badboy]

It usually takes many years, or decades, for the DNA damage from smoking to cause cancer and other diseases. Our bodies are designed to deal with a bit of damage but it’s hard for the body to cope with repeated long-term exposure to harmful chemicals. We know that e-cigs with and without (even more so) produce these same type DNA changes.........And with it, all the effects of immune deficiencies on our bodies. They have already been shown to cause atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) just like traditional cigarettes. E-cigarettes have not been followed in controlled studies over any valid period of time to discover all its health mal effects. With what we already know about this "product," once given the same concentrated attention to study that traditional cigarettes have received for the same lengths of time, I doubt that e-cigarettes will be proven to be any safer than traditional cigarettes.

As a male in his reproductive years, sperm numbers and motility both of which have been shown to be significantly decreased (creation of impotence) with vaping should be enough to have this group reconsider any use of e-cigs.

Thanks but it seems you are comparing both as if smoker were to continue either. My thought is the significance that the E-cigs are supposed to eliminate the person from continuing with either. If both have exactly same contents but the person stops puffing, that is the goal.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Thanks but it seems you are comparing both as if smoker were to continue either. My thought is the significance that the E-cigs are supposed to eliminate the person from continuing with either. If both have exactly same contents but the person stops puffing, that is the goal.

E-cigarettes have never been submitted to or approved by the FDA for the indication of "quitting smoking." To do so they would have to prove safety (which is still in question) AND efficacy, which they have not been able to do with any great success...........only <20% are able to do so (by one "study")..........and this has not been shown to be sustained long term since no study has followed e-cigarette users carefully for any significant length of time. The study that supposedly showed the <20% number was not even a prospective controlled objective study...........it was a retrospective "survey" (strictly subjective and reliant upon the veracity of the subjects' written responses) study without confirmation testing of any sorts, which tried to identify a population that had quit within a one year period. No follow up was ever done beyond that.

Although I do very much appreciate our little discussion, I'm going to leave this subject to others at this point, as there are too many open arguments concerning the safety and efficacy of e-cigarettes which will have to be waded through before its use for the purpose of quitting smoking essentially ceases to be anecdotal.