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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Seahawks could still land Jadeveon Clowney in bottomed-out pass rush market
By Joe Fann August 13, 2020 10:47 AM

Everson Griffen signing with the Cowboys for a mere $6 million is bad news for Jadeveon Clowney. There’s no other way to spin it. Griffen posted 8.0 sacks in 2019 and made his fourth-career Pro Bowl. And yet, he received essentially the same money as the Seahawks paid Bruce Irvin and only $3 million more than Benson Mayowa.

It’s an indication that the pass rush market may have bottomed out as training camps are now in full swing across the NFL. Again, that’s awful news for Clowney, who now appears to have lost his game of chicken in free agency.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Teams are running out of money. Clowney is running out options unless he is willing to accept basically 1/2 the $ of what he is seeking. The Ravens in this headline sound like a likely landing spot............until you read the details.
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Ravens Frontrunners To Sign Jadeveon Clowney?
August 28th, 2020 at 9:35am CST by Rory Parks

The Ravens find themselves with a bit of surprise salary cap room following the release of safety Earl Thomas earlier this week. Baltimore is attempting to void Thomas’ guaranteed 2020 salary of $10MM pursuant to the personal conduct provision of his contract, so the club will temporarily pick up an extra $10MM of cap space.

As Joel Corry of CBS Sports details, that number will drop to $6MM once Thomas files his inevitable grievance, and $4MM will become a cap charge under the terms of the CBA. If Thomas prevails in the grievance, the $6MM of newfound space will of course be added back to the Ravens’ books, and if the team prevails, it will be credited back the $4MM hold.
But the grievance may not be resolved until 2021, so it’s looking as if the Ravens will indeed have another $6MM to play with this year. And while the expected salary cap decrease in 2021 and the upcoming fight with the union over Thomas’ salary could make Baltimore hesitant to spend that money, the club currently profiles as a Super Bowl favorite, so it might make sense to add another piece that can aid in the push for a Lomabrdi Trophy. Plus, Thomas did have offset language in his contract, so if and when he signs with another club, Baltimore will get at least some cap relief regardless of how the grievance process unfolds.

Enter Jadeveon Clowney. The most-discussed free agent of the 2020 offseason is still without a home, and while the Ravens have been loosely connected to him over the past few months, his salary demands have been viewed as an insurmountable obstacle. However, Tony Pauline of Pro Football Network said in a recent podcast that league insiders believe Clowney will ultimately land with Baltimore (via Cole Thompson of Pro Football Network).

As Jeff Zrebiec of The Athletic points out, the Ravens have monitored Clowney’s market, but even when accounting for an extra $6MM of cap space, the club has just $13MM to work with and will want to keep about half of that in reserve. So if Clowney is to end up in the Purple-and-Black, it will be for a salary in the $6-7MM range — which feels like an absolute non-starter for him — or the team will need to get creative.

Clowney does make plenty of sense for Baltimore. The team has beefed up its defensive front this offseason but could still use another proven pass rusher behind Matt Judon, and Clowney’s skills against the run would make him a valuable chess piece in DC Wink Martindale‘s creative schemes. The team has also expressed interest in Ziggy Ansah, who is a more one-dimensional player but who would come much cheaper than Clowney.

Interestingly, Pauline says the division-rival Steelers have also been sniffing around Clowney, but Pittsburgh has even less cap space than Baltimore and would likely need to trade Bud Dupree to make a Clowney deal work.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
That would be total BS if Baltimore were able to use that cap room before a grievance was heard. What's to stop any team from cutting a guy with a bad contract for "conduct detrimental to the team"? "Hey want a contract extension? Start a fight with that guy and make him throw a punch." Total horse hockey and makes me wonder if that's not what really happened here.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
There have been numerous reports in the past few days that Clowney has not responded to any calls to speak to him. He has refused to come in and be examined by teams. This has been especially disconcerting to these teams since they will not have been able to see him perform in any of 14 padded practices. There seems to be consensus now that Clowney is not serious about playing this season.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
There have been numerous reports in the past few days that Clowney has not responded to any calls to speak to him. He has refused to come in and be examined by teams. This has been especially disconcerting to these teams since they will not have been able to see him perform in any of 14 padded practices. There seems to be consensus now that Clowney is not serious about playing this season.
Maybe not just this season, perhaps Clowney is now just about ready to call the whole thing a career ?
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Source: NFL free-agent Jadeveon Clowney switching agents
Free-agent defensive end Jadeveon Clowney has fired agent Bus Cook and now plans to work with agent Kennard McGuire as he looks for an NFL destination days before the regular season begins, a source told ESPN's Dianna Russini.

Considered one of the top free agents on the market this offseason, Clowney has yet to sign with a team -- in part due to an asking price that started at $21 million per season before dropping to $17-18 million in April, a source previously told Russini.
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I dunno I had doubts but it would seem that Clowney still wants to play some ball this season.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-2...Post OB!!!!!
Clowney held out long enough to earn himself a one year prove-it contract loaded with incentives and bonuses.

No agent is going to change the script for 2020 and no team has a 15-17M gap in their cap for 2020.

Clowney doesn’t get to take a season off with the hopes of changing the script. With the cap being reduced, he’ll be in the same boat come 2021 and a year older.

Clowney better come to grips with his situation or he’ll find himself coming to grips with contract offers from CFL or XFL.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-2...Post OB!!!!!
Looks like Clowney had 2 suitors, Titans and Saints. It appears that he’s going with the Titans. I think that choice comes down to his desire to play the Texans 2 or more times this year. He should’ve gone Saints since I don’t see the Titans repeating last seasons success.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Looks like Clowney had 2 suitors, Titans and Saints. It appears that he’s going with the Titans. I think that choice comes down to his desire to play the 2 or more times this year. He should’ve gone Saints since I don’t see the Titans repeating last seasons success.
I bet that was a tough decision, Super Bowl contender or play Houston twice...
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
Clowney remains a problem

"On paper, Clowney - despite recording just three sacks last season - is a problem. Once upon a time, he was also Houston's problem ... even while he was a Texan.
Now he's a Houston problem in a different way, as the Texans oppose the Titans twice in 2020 - on October 18 and again on January 3, in the final game of the regular season. There could be a lot riding on that outcome ... and therefore a lot riding on Laremy Tunsil and company being able to deal with the "problem'' that is Jadeveon Clowney."
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Clowney grew the most under Vrabel. He was a force for us and carried our defense when JJ was down. He made plays in Seattle and impacted games. Why won’t he do the same in Tennessee?

I hope DW4 is working on cadence and rhythm.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I completely agree. David Johnson better be ready. He's going to have a rough go at it.

But let's say Clowney excels with Vrabel & gets 6 sacks next year. What are the odds any will be against us?
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
I completely agree. David Johnson better be ready. He's going to have a rough go at it.

But let's say Clowney excels with Vrabel & gets 6 sacks next year. What are the odds any will be against us?
High likelihood. Players tend to try harder to prove a point when playing against their prior team. Clowney gives me the impression he would like nothing more than a chance to get at us.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It will be interesting to see the final contract. With incentives being the only way he makes it to $15 million, that means he needs to stay healthy, something I seriously doubt will happen. Vrabel isn't stupid. He and the FO will have protected the Titans from embarrassment. Clowney will not be in football shape, and it would not in the least surprise me if he sustains injury in the first few games in which he returns. He has painted himself into a corner with a do or die need for performance for what he undoubtedly sees as a relatively demeaning contract. He will indeed do everything he can to prove his worth. And trying to overextend one's body's capabilities is the surest way to lead to uncontrolled play and to increase to one's risk of injury. It will indeed be an interesting year for Clowney and the Titans.........on that I don't at this time see as a significant threat to the Texans.
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As of last night, when reports first emerged that defensive end Jadeveon Clowney was leaning toward Tennessee, some in league circles pegged his compensation at $12 million — the same amount the Vikings are paying to defensive end Yannick Ngakoue.

Now that Clowney has picked the Titans, after an apparent night of last-minute efforts from the likes of the Saints and Seahawks to land Clowney after Clowney made it clear that the deal wasn’t done, ESPN reports that the deal is worth “up to” $15 million.

Of course, “up to” means “if he hits all incentives and other payments not in his base salary.” It will be interesting to see exactly what it takes to get him “up to” $15 million, especially since Clowney went months refusing to accept a contract with a base value of $15 million or less.

Clowney’s willingness to do the deal may have been motivated in part by the decision to part ways with agent Bus Cook. Indeed, it could be that Cook didn’t want to be attached to an outcome that had Clowney getting a base value less than the amount he had refused to accept while represented by Cook. In the cutthroat, ultra-competitive world of agents, Cook’s rivals would have used against him the fact that he could have gotten $15 million for Clowney before ultimately getting less than that.
LINK
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
High likelihood. Players tend to try harder to prove a point when playing against their prior team. Clowney gives me the impression he would like nothing more than a chance to get at us.
You know this. I know this. But for some reason you don’t believe Laremy Tunsil, who did get the money he wanted, will know this. Or even Tytus Howard, who is pretty good at his job.

Clowney is who he’s always been, an almost guy.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Clowney's contract is for a base of just over $12 million...with incentives that would max him out at $15 million. No word yet on the terms of the incentives.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
NFL nixed Saints' wild sign-and-trade plan to land Jadeveon Clowney, source says
The idea was for another team to sign Clowney and pay his signing bonus -- then immediately trade Clowney and his remaining salary to the Saints in exchange for a draft pick. The other team essentially would have been "buying" a draft pick, which the NFL has never allowed.
The NFL Network reported that the Saints were prepared to send a second-round pick and a player to the unspecified team. However, a source said it never reached the point of a finalized offer since they reached out to the league for permission first.
***https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29826419/nfl-nixed-saints-wild-sign-trade-plan-land-jadeveon-clowney-source-says
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
NFL nixed Saints' wild sign-and-trade plan to land Jadeveon Clowney, source says
The idea was for another team to sign Clowney and pay his signing bonus -- then immediately trade Clowney and his remaining salary to the Saints in exchange for a draft pick. The other team essentially would have been "buying" a draft pick, which the NFL has never allowed.
The NFL Network reported that the Saints were prepared to send a second-round pick and a player to the unspecified team. However, a source said it never reached the point of a finalized offer since they reached out to the league for permission first.
***https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29826419/nfl-nixed-saints-wild-sign-trade-plan-land-jadeveon-clowney-source-says
It's hardly a secret that the "unspecified team" was the Browns...........and that the Saints would have had the around-end transaction nullified by the NFL had it been attempted.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You have to admire the Saints trying to push the envelope. They want to win. By any means necessary.
Wish the Texans org was this way.

How would they have been breaking the rules? I guess in God" ells world being smarter than the rest is breaking the rules.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
You have to admire the Saints trying to push the envelope. They want to win. By any means necessary.
Surprise revelation.


Ravens, not Saints, would have gotten Jadeveon Clowney in sign and trade
September 7, 2020, 2:41 PM EDT

Yes, the Saints inquired with the league about the possibility of a sign-and-trade that would have allowed them to get defensive end Jadeveon Clowney by purchasing via draft-pick compensation the extra cash and cap space needed to get the deal done. The league said that it would not authorize the move. However, that’s not the end of the story.

Per multiple sources, if the league had given the green light to the sign-and-trade concept, Clowney would have ended up not with the Saints but with the Baltimore Ravens.

From New Orleans’ perspective, the Browns would have signed Clowney and traded him to the Saints. From Baltimore’s perspective, the Jaguars would have signed Clowney and traded him to the Ravens.

Once the league told the Saints that it couldn’t happen, the strategy was abandoned. If a different answer had been obtained, the Saints would have found out soon thereafter that the Jaguars would have been signing Clowney, and that the Jaguars would have been trading him to Baltimore.[/QUOTE]
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
You know this. I know this. But for some reason you don’t believe Laremy Tunsil, who did get the money he wanted, will know this. Or even Tytus Howard, who is pretty good at his job.

Clowney is who he’s always been, an almost guy.
What beef do Tunsil and Howard have w Clowney? Yeah they’ll approach it professionally. I’d expect Clowney to approach it passionately; if his distaste for OB and the Texans bears any truth.

Would you agree that player on a prove it deal would be out to...prove it? More so given the state of the league/country?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Wish the Texans org was this way.

How would they have been breaking the rules? I guess in God" ells world being smarter than the rest is breaking the rules.
The Texans were able to pull off as close to what the saints attempted with it being doable in the Osweiler deal.

The rule is against buying draft picks, which is what Cleveland or Jacksonville would've been attempting. And that's been a no-go as far back as the draft itself having nothing to do with the current commissioner.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The Texans were able to pull off as close to what the saints attempted with it being doable in the Osweiler deal.

The rule is against buying draft picks, which is what Cleveland or Jacksonville would've been attempting. And that's been a no-go as far back as the draft itself having nothing to do with the current commissioner.
OK but what is the distinction between the Texans' deal involving Osweiler and the current one at hand involving Clowney,
or more to the point why was one permitted while the other was forbidden ?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
OK but what is the distinction between the Texans' deal involving Osweiler and the current one at hand involving Clowney,
or more to the point why was one permitted while the other was forbidden ?
Not 100% sure, but my guess is that it was the sign and trade aspect that made it pretty transparent as a cash for draft pick arrangement. With the Os trade it was an existing contract being traded that could be more or less argued was merely the market value. Even then the Os trade was pretty scrutinized and just passed muster.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Normally, yes. But this would be Clowney's 3rd prove it deal three years in a row. You know sooner or later you just gotta accept what them tea leaves are telling you.
According to the leaves here he had no market either. Guess the leaves aren’t always right.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
OK but what is the distinction between the Texans' deal involving Osweiler and the current one at hand involving Clowney,
or more to the point why was one permitted while the other was forbidden ?
My guess is Browns had the cap space to absorb the contract without help.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
According to the leaves here he had no market either. Guess the leaves aren’t always right.
BO'bs an ijit. We both agree on that & he screwed that whole deal.

I'm not surprised a team will pay him $15M to kick the tires. We'd have paid him more on the franchise tag. Two years of the tag we'd have paid him $34M.

How much do you think he's asking for in guaranteed money?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Texans were able to pull off as close to what the saints attempted with it being doable in the Osweiler deal.

The rule is against buying draft picks, which is what Cleveland or Jacksonville would've been attempting. And that's been a no-go as far back as the draft itself having nothing to do with the current commissioner.
The commissioner makes the final decision so it has everything to do with the commissioner.

What's really different between what the Brownw/ Texans tried to do and what the Saints tried to do?

Besides tell me what rule would have been broken?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
The commissioner makes the final decision so it has everything to do with the commissioner.

What's really different between what the Browns/,texudod and what the Saints tried to do?

Besides tell me what rule would have been broken?
I literally addressed all of that in previous posts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You can't buy draft picks.
No team is allowed to, thus no favorites.

Like, what's so difficult?
Trading a player for a draft pick isn't buying draft picks.

Tell me if the Brown's signed Clwney and then traded him for a draft pick isn't that the definition of trading a player for a draft pick and essentially what RS did with the Brown's OS trade?
 


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