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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Unlike some I was always very skeptical that Clowneys market value was that of two first round picks but felt he should fetch a single first round pick, especailly from a team like Seattle which likeley will be drafting in the latter stages of the rounds.
So if thinkin Clowney was only worth a single frist round pick makes me a hater, then so be it.
That's what grates on us, not getting anything thing close to value for JDC. If the team insists on disposing of him, it's almost like
O'Brien wants to sabotage the Texans value/talent level.
But, what if the value you assign to him wasn't there?

They chose to take a 3rd rd pick for Clowney, which turned into Conley and they needed that pick to solidify a depleted secondary, rather than wait for a 3rd rd comp pick. This turned out to be a wise move. IMHO

I guess this really comes down to if you think Mercilus/Conley> Clowney and even if you dont agree with this I still think they made the best out of a bad situation.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Trade looks worse every week.
I'm still not losing any sleep over it. I still didn't see a player worth paying top money. He had a very good game.

I think BO'b screwed up the negotiations & settled on a bad trade. But I'm not crying that JD isn't here.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Guys don't get it...this thread will be bumped every time Clowney does something worthy of praise.......which at his rate should be every 2-3 games, which has been the problem in and of itself.
So you're saying you'd rather have Martin & Mingo right now over Clowney? Even with the understanding that Clowney will leave next season, Id still rather have JD.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
But, what if the value you assign to him wasn't there?

They chose to take a 3rd rd pick for Clowney, which turned into Conley and they needed that pick to solidify a depleted secondary, rather than wait for a 3rd rd comp pick. This turned out to be a wise move. IMHO

I guess this really comes down to if you think Mercilus/Conley> Clowney and even if you dont agree with this I still think they made the best out of a bad situation.
More and more I'm liken this new look SteelB, a guy who rather recently seemed to be a critic of most things Texans but has now become
somewhat of a Bill O'Brient apologist. I like this positivity with a slight touch of homerism I'm seeing here.
But IADR can't quit buy your logic about Clowney for Conley trade even though I like the young corner so far and am glad that he's here.
Now you could have sold me on a Clowney for Patrick Peterson swap.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So you're saying you'd rather have Martin & Mingo right now over Clowney? Even with the understanding that Clowney will leave next season, Id still rather have JD.
No, I’m saying that 1 great game doesn’t outweigh 8 other “ehhh” games and it certainly doesn’t warrant giving him top pass rusher money. And that is the conundrum of JD.

Funny thing is, 13 or so years ago, there was another #1 overall pick that played DE here who used to get crucified for his stats and impact not quite lining up to what he “should” do. His “almost sacks”......which is basically what stat nerds now call “Qb hurries” and/or “qbs hits” and TFL’s are actually very comparable and in some instances are even better than what JD has produced in his best seasons. but I don’t recall folks losing their **** over him leaving to go get paid back then...in fact folks more or less hit him with “bye Felicia”.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Guys don't get it...this thread will be bumped every time Clowney does something worthy of praise.......which at his rate should be every 2-3 games, which has been the problem in and of itself.
That’s more production than we’re getting from his replacements.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
That’s more production than we’re getting from his replacements.
Technically no it’s not because His replacements are Whitney and Scarlett. Now if u want to say more productive than the guys we got back for him? sure. But I would think he’d be more productive given the fact that he’s a starter and has played more.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Tweet from @PFF_Seahawks: Jadeveon Clowney earned an elite overall grade of 90.7 against the 49ers, making it his 2nd elite single-game grade of the year.

Clowney is in the midst of a career-year in terms of PFF grade, as his current overall grade of 89.4 would be a career-high if the season ended today.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm still not losing any sleep over it. I still didn't see a player worth paying top money. He had a very good game.

I think BO'b screwed up the negotiations & settled on a bad trade. But I'm not crying that JD isn't here.
Agreed,

And still came out of this with a very promising young CB in Conley at a much cheaper price.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No, I’m saying that 1 great game doesn’t outweigh 8 other “ehhh” games and it certainly doesn’t warrant giving him top pass rusher money. And that is the conundrum of JD.

Funny thing is, 13 or so years ago, there was another #1 overall pick that played DE here who used to get crucified for his stats and impact not quite lining up to what he “should” do. His “almost sacks”......which is basically what stat nerds now call “Qb hurries” and/or “qbs hits” and TFL’s are actually very comparable and in some instances are even better than what JD has produced in his best seasons. but I don’t recall folks losing their **** over him leaving to go get paid back then...in fact folks more or less hit him with “bye Felicia”.
True, It's just a way to show more BOB hate. They will never be satisfied even with a SB win.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That’s more production than we’re getting from his replacements.
Really?

I think Mercilus has played very well this season and Conley could be very promising in the future and definitely filled a much needed position of need. I think Martin has shown promise as a situational pass rusher. Although he's not an every down guy.

They used the Clowney trade to get Conley and build depth in the pass rushing unit, which they're going to need now that Watt has gone down.

I dont expect Martin to play much this weekend because stopping the run isn't his game. Of course there will be one poster in particular that will put out some stats saying how bad Martin sucks because he like to throw out stats that fit his agenda.

Clowney really hadn't mad much of an impact until last night in Seattle. Look at how their defense has played all yr.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Tweet from @PFF_Seahawks: Jadeveon Clowney earned an elite overall grade of 90.7 against the 49ers, making it his 2nd elite single-game grade of the year.

Clowney is in the midst of a career-year in terms of PFF grade, as his current overall grade of 89.4 would be a career-high if the season ended today.
And made very little impact on their defense this yr. In fact their defense has sucked. I watched a lot of the Sea/TB game and #69 dominated Clowney for most of the game.

The Texans are in a better place with Mercilus/Conley than they would've been with Clowney and that doesn't even take into acct the fact that Clowney wants Mack/Donald $$$$. This is coming from me, who wanted the Texans to tag Clowney this yr.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Tweet from @PFF_Seahawks: Jadeveon Clowney earned an elite overall grade of 90.7 against the 49ers, making it his 2nd elite single-game grade of the year.

Clowney is in the midst of a career-year in terms of PFF grade, as his current overall grade of 89.4 would be a career-high if the season ended today.
Wonder if this has anything to do with him playing for his contract money next season? I get really down on players when their best season is before contract time.
 

dream_team

All Pro
No, I’m saying that 1 great game doesn’t outweigh 8 other “ehhh” games and it certainly doesn’t warrant giving him top pass rusher money. And that is the conundrum of JD.

Funny thing is, 13 or so years ago, there was another #1 overall pick that played DE here who used to get crucified for his stats and impact not quite lining up to what he “should” do. His “almost sacks”......which is basically what stat nerds now call “Qb hurries” and/or “qbs hits” and TFL’s are actually very comparable and in some instances are even better than what JD has produced in his best seasons. but I don’t recall folks losing their **** over him leaving to go get paid back then...in fact folks more or less hit him with “bye Felicia”.
I admittedly don't watch a lot of Seahawks games. But Seth on 610 said Clowney is statistically the most double-teamed edge rusher in the NFL. He's also ranked 6th on PFF. Sounds like he's doing better than "eh".

Also, I agree with you he doesn't deserve the money that is claimed he's asking for. (btw, of course players are going to ask for more than they deserve in negotiations) I'm not saying we should have extended him. All I'm saying is I would easily much rather have Clowney for this season than Martin + Mingo. TBH, I don't see how anyone can think differently on that point.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
All I'm saying is I would easily much rather have Clowney for this season than Martin + Mingo. TBH, I don't see how anyone can think differently on that point.
That 3rd round pick got us Gareon Conley. He hasn't lived up to his draft status, but the dude has 1st round talent & so far it looks like he was victim to bad coaching & regime change.

I know Conley wasn't a consideration at the time of the trade, still he is part of that deal. & if nothing else adds 1st round talent to our depth at what was a week position group.

I think the Clowney trade, at the time, was lopsided & short-sighted. But it seems to be working in our favor. LonnieJ & G.Conley are locked up for a couple of years. If we can lock up Roby, we'll be strong for a good while.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I admittedly don't watch a lot of Seahawks games. But Seth on 610 said Clowney is statistically the most double-teamed edge rusher in the NFL. He's also ranked 6th on PFF. Sounds like he's doing better than "eh".

Also, I agree with you he doesn't deserve the money that is claimed he's asking for. (btw, of course players are going to ask for more than they deserve in negotiations) I'm not saying we should have extended him. All I'm saying is I would easily much rather have Clowney for this season than Martin + Mingo. TBH, I don't see how anyone can think differently on that point.
Understand how nuanced that stat is so as to make Clowney look better than he's actually been. Most doubled team "edge rusher" in the NFL. That's great and all, The problem is Clowney's trying to be paid as 1 of the best overall defensive players in the game period by asking for the type of money he is. Aside from that, it still doesn't really explain his lack of production. Clowney is amongst the most double teamed, but guys like Watt, Quinn and others are right there with him...& all have better #'s....even the rookie Josh Allen.

& that's why these specialized stats folks like to put out there have to be balanced with the basic numbers and the tape... No way in hell & there's nothing you can tell me to make me believe that Clowney is better or even in the same class as guys like Nick Bosa and Khalil Mack just b/c he gets double teamed slightly more than they do.

Guys like Donald & Mack...........Watt in his prime, Those guys produced despite all the attention they recieved...But folks here like to use that as an excuse for why JD hasn't consistently put up games like he did on Monday night. It's a joke really.

The argument has never been that he can't or that we didn't want Clowney here...it's been is/was he really worth the money he was asking for. Clowney barely outproducing 2 guys who don't see even half the snaps he does says more about Clowney than those other guys.
 

dream_team

All Pro
That 3rd round pick got us Gareon Conley. He hasn't lived up to his draft status, but the dude has 1st round talent & so far it looks like he was victim to bad coaching & regime change.

I know Conley wasn't a consideration at the time of the trade, still he is part of that deal. & if nothing else adds 1st round talent to our depth at what was a week position group.

I think the Clowney trade, at the time, was lopsided & short-sighted. But it seems to be working in our favor. LonnieJ & G.Conley are locked up for a couple of years. If we can lock up Roby, we'll be strong for a good while.
I see SteelB constantly make this same argument about Conley, but I don't buy it. It's not an either/or situation to me. In other words, if didn't make the Clowney trade, doesn't mean we don't have Conley as well. It's not like that Seahawks 3rd was the absolute asset the Raiders only wanted for Conley.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Understand how nuanced that stat is so as to make Clowney look better than he's actually been. Most doubled team "edge rusher" in the NFL. That's great and all, The problem is Clowney's trying to be paid as 1 of the best overall defensive players in the game period by asking for the type of money he is. Aside from that, it still doesn't really explain his lack of production. Clowney is amongst the most double teamed, but guys like Watt, Quinn and others are right there with him...& all have better #'s....even the rookie Josh Allen.

& that's why these specialized stats folks like to put out there have to be balanced with the basic numbers and the tape... No way in hell & there's nothing you can tell me to make me believe that Clowney is better or even in the same class as guys like Nick Bosa and Khalil Mack just b/c he gets double teamed slightly more than they do.

Guys like Donald & Mack...........Watt in his prime, Those guys produced despite all the attention they recieved...But folks here like to use that as an excuse for why JD hasn't consistently put up games like he did on Monday night. It's a joke really.

The argument has never been that he can't or that we didn't want Clowney here...it's been is/was he really worth the money he was asking for. Clowney barely outproducing 2 guys who don't see even half the snaps he does says more about Clowney than those other guys.
I feel like we're making two different arguments. I agree with you that he doesn't deserve Mack/Donald money. I could care less what he thinks he deserves. And NO WAY I wanted the Texans to pay him that much.

All I'm saying is I'd MUCH rather have Clowney on this team (for this season only) than Martin + Mingo. Then let him sign elsewhere next season. I think the FO totally botched this situation.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I feel like we're making two different arguments. I agree with you that he doesn't deserve Mack/Donald money. I could care less what he thinks he deserves. And NO WAY I wanted the Texans to pay him that much.

All I'm saying is I'd MUCH rather have Clowney on this team (for this season only) than Martin + Mingo. Then let him sign elsewhere next season. I think the FO totally botched this situation.
Well yeah, considering what Martin & Mingo have given us & Watt going down...sure. But that's not really saying much. I'm sure we'd have all liked for the FO to have had Mack when he became available last year too at the expense of Clowney, but it didn't happen.

But i'm in the camp that I don't believe Clowney makes that big of a difference with our defense this year. The 1st argument for keeping him was that we were losing an elite run defender & our run defense would suffer as a result...well pick any metric u like, we are a top 10 defense against the run. From an individual standpoint, there are 3 guys with as many or more sacks, and all that as JD Clowney. From a team defense perspective we are also a better overall defense than Seattle has been thus far. So yeah, Clowney gets all the hype b/c he's the athletic freak, but the defense may just be better off without him in the long run b/c of the financials of it all, & b/c it gives opportunities for development to other guys like Omenihu, Scarlett & yes Martin. Sometimes its those guys you expect the least from that wind up proving everything you thought about something wrong.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
I feel like we're making two different arguments. I agree with you that he doesn't deserve Mack/Donald money. I could care less what he thinks he deserves. And NO WAY I wanted the Texans to pay him that much.

All I'm saying is I'd MUCH rather have Clowney on this team (for this season only) than Martin + Mingo. Then let him sign elsewhere next season. I think the FO totally botched this situation.
I simply wanted us to wait him out. There's no way he'd sit out the season. He'd have reported ~ Wk 8 and we'd have him for the 2nd half of the season...which would be really good about now w/o Watt.

But it's coulda/woulda/shoulda and when O'Brien takes a dislike, you're hosed.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Well yeah, considering what Martin & Mingo have given us & Watt going down...sure. But that's not really saying much. I'm sure we'd have all liked for the FO to have had Mack when he became available last year too at the expense of Clowney, but it didn't happen.

But i'm in the camp that I don't believe Clowney makes that big of a difference with our defense this year. The 1st argument for keeping him was that we were losing an elite run defender & our run defense would suffer as a result...well pick any metric u like, we are a top 10 defense against the run. From an individual standpoint, there are 3 guys with as many or more sacks, and all that as JD Clowney. From a team defense perspective we are also a better overall defense than Seattle has been thus far. So yeah, Clowney gets all the hype b/c he's the athletic freak, but the defense may just be better off without him in the long run b/c of the financials of it all, & b/c it gives opportunities for development to other guys like Omenihu, Scarlett & yes Martin. Sometimes its those guys you expect the least from that wind up proving everything you thought about something wrong.
Well, we do disagree with the bolded, especially now with Watt out. Even if all he does is absorb double teams, and get zero stats, then that helps the defense tremendously!

If you look at total defense, we did take a hit according to DVOA. We went from 7th to 18th.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
If you look at total defense, we did take a hit according to DVOA. We went from 7th to 18th.
I'm assuming you mean DVOA ranking from 2018 to 2019 YTD...in which case you could make the argument that the tougher schedule is more responsible for that dip than the loss of any 1 player (we also lost HB too...& the loss of JJ will also factor into that metric later for 2019). We've already seen Brees, Rivers, Mahomes and Carr this year...& Brissett hasn't been a slouch either. All 5 of those guys are as good or better than anyone we'd faced by this time last year not named Brady & Luck....& i guess you can include Dak in that convo as well.

And as stated, Clowney's importance to our defense as this elite run defender has been tremendously overstated around here. We are top 5 against the run this year without him..wanna say that's higher than we were last year....& we've faced perhaps the 2 best backs in the league in Kamara and McCaffrey. Although Kamara got loose a little bit in the 2nd half against us, he didn't eclipse 100 yds rushing. Neither did McCaffrey. Contrast that with what Seattle's run defense with him...

It's a classic case of the sum being greater than the individual parts.

Not saying we couldn't use an athletic freak like him...but that athletic freak would need to show up & make splash plays every week for it to have any significant impact to our defense as it is now. Anything short of that which is most likely what we would've gotten from him...impact would've been negligble...IMO of course.
 

dream_team

All Pro
I'm assuming you mean DVOA ranking from 2018 to 2019 YTD...in which case you could make the argument that the tougher schedule is more responsible for that dip than the loss of any 1 player (we also lost HB too...& the loss of JJ will also factor into that metric later for 2019). We've already seen Brees, Rivers, Mahomes and Carr this year...& Brissett hasn't been a slouch either. All 5 of those guys are as good or better than anyone we'd faced by this time last year not named Brady & Luck....& i guess you can include Dak in that convo as well.

And as stated, Clowney's importance to our defense as this elite run defender has been tremendously overstated around here. We are top 5 against the run this year without him..wanna say that's higher than we were last year....& we've faced perhaps the 2 best backs in the league in Kamara and McCaffrey. Although Kamara got loose a little bit in the 2nd half against us, he didn't eclipse 100 yds rushing. Neither did McCaffrey. Contrast that with what Seattle's run defense with him...

It's a classic case of the sum being greater than the individual parts.

Not saying we couldn't use an athletic freak like him...but that athletic freak would need to show up & make splash plays every week for it to have any significant impact to our defense as it is now. Anything short of that which is most likely what we would've gotten from him...impact would've been negligble...IMO of course.
DVOA takes into account the strength of the opponent.

I wish Clowney was still on this team, you think he doesn't make much of a difference. We're not changing any minds here, so I guess we'll just leave it at that.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We are top 5 against the run this year without him..wanna say that's higher than we were last year....& we've faced perhaps the 2 best backs in the league in Kamara and McCaffrey. Although Kamara got loose a little bit in the 2nd half against us, he didn't eclipse 100 yds rushing. Neither did McCaffrey. Contrast that with what Seattle's run defense with him...
We also stopped Mack & Fornette. I'm not a big Fornette fan, but he was having a good year until he ran into the LPC. Mack is alright, but that OL was supposed to be a beast... more like a puppy to our run defense
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I see SteelB constantly make this same argument about Conley, but I don't buy it. It's not an either/or situation to me. In other words, if didn't make the Clowney trade, doesn't mean we don't have Conley as well. It's not like that Seahawks 3rd was the absolute asset the Raiders only wanted for Conley.
Tell me what asset did they want besides a 3rd?

I'll wait
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I simply wanted us to wait him out. There's no way he'd sit out the season. He'd have reported ~ Wk 8 and we'd have him for the 2nd half of the season...which would be really good about now w/o Watt.

But it's coulda/woulda/shoulda and when O'Brien takes a dislike, you're hosed.
Maybe they were worried about Clowney's knee blowing out and worried they wouldn't get a 2020 comp 3rd so they took the 3rd the Seahawks offered them. I disagreed with BOB at the time but understand where he was coming from.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Very important question.......at what point did the Texans organization know they didn't have a chance in hell of re-signing Clowney or getting him to budge from his hold-out?

The Texans mistake, not identifying the reality of the situation and acting sooner. By hoping for a better outcome, they got screwed by a savvy organization. The deal was not all warts but if they had acted sooner......there would've been no warts.

Texans had a screwed up philosophy in regards to pending FA's......we will not negotiatiate extensions before the current contract plays out. That's BS b/c they then went out and extended Watt.....deservedly so but nonetheless, made other players aware there's a seperate system for everyone and Watt. Clowney should've been extended or traded in 2018.
 
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dream_team

All Pro
Tell me what asset did they want besides a 3rd?

I'll wait
I already mentioned in another response to you that the Raiders would have absolutely accepted our 2020 2nd rounder. I know, worse deal for Texans... just making the point that we didn't HAVE to deal Clowney in order to get Conley. It's not a one or the other deal.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Very important question.......at what point did the Texans organization they didn't have a chance in hell of re-signing Clowney or getting him to budge from his hold-out?
From the pieces I've seen, it was a major sticking point with O'Brien v. Gaine. Gaine wanted to extend, OB didn't. Once that was made public/reported, I figure Clowney wasn't interested in staying a place he didn't feel wanted.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Very important question.......at what point did the Texans organization they didn't have a chance in hell of re-signing Clowney or getting him to budge from his hold-out?

The Texans mistake, not identifying the reality of the situation and acting sooner. By hoping for a better outcome, they got screwed by a savvy organization. The deal was not all warts but if they had acted sooner......there would've been no warts.

Texans had a screwed up philosophy in regards to pending FA's......we will not negotiatiate extensions before the current contract plays out. That's BS b/c they then went out and extended Watt.....deservedly so but nonetheless, made other players aware there's a seperate system for everyone and Watt. Clowney should've been extended or traded in 2018.
The Texans FO was in turmoil this offseason. Heck they dont even have a GM. They made the best of a mishandled situation. IMHO
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I already mentioned in another response to you that the Raiders would have absolutely accepted our 2020 2nd rounder. I know, worse deal for Texans... just making the point that we didn't HAVE to deal Clowney in order to get Conley. It's not a one or the other deal.
I would rather keep the 2nd and gain a 3rd rather than keep Clowney. Can you imagine this MB if they traded away their 1st/2nd rd picks in 2020 and 2021? That would've been great entertainment.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
The Texans FO was in turmoil this offseason. Heck they dont even have a GM. They made the best of a mishandled situation. IMHO
Are we re-writing history now? They mishandled the situation. Clowney was going to sign his tender under Blabbermouth Bill told Clowney he was being traded to Miami for Tunsil. They didn't make the best of a mishandled situation. They crapped the bed and rolled around in it.

As for your earlier comments, Mercilus was already on the roster. He was not brought in to replace Clowney's production. He needed his own damn production; he's in a contract year. We traded a healthy pro-bowl edge for a 3rd we would have gotten even if he never played for us and walked away in FA, a situational pass rusher that can't rush, and a ST'er.

Texans FO cut off their nose to spite their face. We can debate if Clowney is worth the money all day long, at the end of the day we're left without premier talent, are paying $7M for him to play elsewhere, AND he's made plays that won games for the Seahawks.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Are we re-writing history now? They mishandled the situation. Clowney was going to sign his tender under Blabbermouth Bill told Clowney he was being traded to Miami for Tunsil. They didn't make the best of a mishandled situation. They crapped the bed and rolled around in it.

As for your earlier comments, Mercilus was already on the roster. He was not brought in to replace Clowney's production. He needed his own damn production; he's in a contract year. We traded a healthy pro-bowl edge for a 3rd we would have gotten even if he never played for us and walked away in FA, a situational pass rusher that can't rush, and a ST'er.

Texans FO cut off their nose to spite their face. We can debate if Clowney is worth the money all day long, at the end of the day we're left without premier talent, are paying $7M for him to play elsewhere, AND he's made plays that won games for the Seahawks.
I agree with you, but yes they mishandled the situation from the get go.

Making a space for Mercilus to play at his most productive position. Trading for Conley and filling a glaring need, plus saving the cap space so they can re-sign (Thanks) Watson/Tunsil/Mercilus/Roby. (After they let JoJo/WFV walk they will have the cap space) That's making the best of a bad situation. IMHO
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
I agree with you, but yes they mishandled the situation from the get go.

Making a space for Mercilus to play at his most productive position. Trading for Conley and filling a glaring need, plus saving the cap space so they can re-sign (Thanks) Watson/Tunsil/Mercilus/Roby. (After they let JoJo/WFV walk they will have the cap space) That's making the best of a bad situation. IMHO
Spend it like you got it isn’t making the best of a bad situation IMO. It’s digging a deeper hole.

So your solution to make space for Merci was to ship off the better player so he could get snaps? Kind of ridiculous when they both want new contracts at the same position.

Cap space was never an issue for Watson. JJ will be off the books by then.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Spend it like you got it isn’t making the best of a bad situation IMO. It’s digging a deeper hole.

So your solution to make space for Merci was to ship off the better player so he could get snaps? Kind of ridiculous when they both want new contracts at the same position.

Cap space was never an issue for Watson. JJ will be off the books by then.
Depends on how good you think Conley is. Also depends on who they sign in fa with the cap space.

Cap space? Around these parts it's a big deal to some. Go check out UR and KDogs posts.
 
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PapaL

Loose Screw
Depends on how good you think Conley is. Also depends on who they sign in fa with the cap space.

Cap space? Around these parts it's a big deal to some. Go check out UR and KDogs posts.
I prefer to spend cap space on players that play for my team.

Conley was a bust in OAK and was going on the scrap heap. We bought cheap yes but let’s not act like a good game makes up for his previous seasons. Let’s be realistic.

Conley, Mingos, whatshisnuts and the $7M we’re paying in salary still don’t equal one franchise tagged Clowney this season.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Conley was a bust in OAK and was going on the scrap heap. We bought cheap yes but let’s not act like a good game makes up for his previous seasons. Let’s be realistic.
Realistically two good games show there is potential there. The possibility he was a victim of bad coaching & bad team appears to be very real.


Conley, Mingos, whatshisnuts and the $7M we’re paying in salary still don’t equal one franchise tagged Clowney this season.
I don't know how many times we've got to address this. There isn't one person on this board that approves of the trade or the way it went down.

Many of us are trying to find silver linings & hoping it works out, but that's it. This organization & every one involved fubared the Clowney thing from beginning to end.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
Realistically two good games show there is potential there. The possibility he was a victim of bad coaching & bad team appears to be very real.



I don't know how many times we've got to address this. There isn't one person on this board that approves of the trade or the way it went down.

Many of us are trying to find silver linings & hoping it works out, but that's it. This organization & every one involved fubared the Clowney thing from beginning to end.
Brock had 2 good games too. Be realistic. It’s too early.

That’s fine but don’t let’s not act like we maximized the situation or even made the best of that. This result is not the best of it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Brock had 2 good games too. Be realistic. It’s too early.

That’s fine but don’t let’s not act like we maximized the situation or even made the best of that. This result is not the best of it.
You will see,

That is all

I'm was a big Conley fan in the draft. His talent level is up there with his former OSU teammate Lattimore. He just needs to be put in a situation where he can let his talent level shine. Frankly, I'm surprised a team like the Eagles/Chiefs/Saints didn't trade for him.
 


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