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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
For one, I think the comparisons to Mahomes need to stop. No point in dwelling on hypotheticals.

That aside, how do you think DW4's skillset could be better used? I actually wonder if BOB's system will ultimately shape him into a more well-rounded QB. I never wanted him to become a Lamar Jackson-type who becomes overly-reliant on his feet. His athleticism will be there, at least for the next few years, so I'd rather him learn the position from the pocket, and then break out his running ability AFTER he's developed into a good pocket passer (which I think he is though he obviously needs to continue improving).

I don't think he's come close to reaching his ceiling yet. If he becomes an even more polished passer, and develops a better sense of when to stay in the pocket and when to bail, AND coaches start using his legs a bit more on designed run plays, I think the sky is the limit for him. We shall see.
Exactly

Hopefully this happens because if it does DW4 will become the player some on this MB think he already is.

Difference between them and me is I dont think what you described is going to happen. He will still be a good but not great QB even if it doesn't happen.
 

ClemsonTexan

Practice Squad
Exactly

Hopefully this happens because if it does DW4 will become the player some on this MB think he already is.

Difference between them and me is I dont think what you described is going to happen. He will still be a good but not great QB even if it doesn't happen.
Fortunately, he doesn't have to be great to win a SB. Well, maybe for the Texans he does, but he could win a SB with a better organization, no question.

To keep perspective on this, I think it's important to keep in mind that really only 4-5 teams are consistently happy with their QB play. I'm a recent Texans convert...I was previously a "Washington Football Team" fan. When Robert Griffin III was under center, I felt our chances of converting 3rd and 3 were worse than my chances of winning the Powerball. The ball was either batted down, thrown behind the receiver on a slant or thrown out of bounds. No exceptions. Well, the one exception was a sack since he was completely oblivious to pressure. Now that I watch the Texans, I see conversions on 3rd and 6 or 3rd and 7 on a semi-regular basis, and I cannot believe it! Before this, I literally thought anything more than 3rd and 2 was a signal for the punt team to hit the field.

Watson is still young and is on a good trajectory. I don't know if he'll be great. I *do* know that the Texans could have a Mayfield, Trubisky, Haskins, etc., so all things considered, Texans' fans should be counting their blessings. These truly elite QBs some people pine for do not grow on trees. Hell, Deshaun Watsons do not grow on trees. You have a QB who currently ranks 3rd in passer rating, 4th in passing yards, and 5th in TD passes, yet there's a lot of handwringing over the fact that he's not Rodgers in his 4th season. I don't really get it.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
For one, I think the comparisons to Mahomes need to stop. No point in dwelling on hypotheticals.

That aside, how do you think DW4's skillset could be better used? I actually wonder if BOB's system will ultimately shape him into a more well-rounded QB. I never wanted him to become a Lamar Jackson-type who becomes overly-reliant on his feet. His athleticism will be there, at least for the next few years, so I'd rather him learn the position from the pocket, and then break out his running ability AFTER he's developed into a good pocket passer (which I think he is though he obviously needs to continue improving).

I don't think he's come close to reaching his ceiling yet. If he becomes an even more polished passer, and develops a better sense of when to stay in the pocket and when to bail, AND coaches start using his legs a bit more on designed run plays, I think the sky is the limit for him. We shall see.
This comparison will never be put to rest/aside. These two will be talked about for years to come.

It seems as if fans wants perfection when that’s not realistic. No quarterback makes every throw. The young man is lightening up the league like he did in his rookie season. The difference he is showing more poise in the pocket as well as being a polished passer. In the past 9 games have you not seen all of that?

Side note: I’m not arguing with you and welcome to the forum.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
That aside, how do you think DW4's skillset could be better used? I actually wonder if BOB's system will ultimately shape him into a more well-rounded QB.
I never really wanted O'Brien to adapt to Watson per se. I just wanted him to help Watson adjust to the pro game.

Watch how other coaches incorporate things into the game plan to help young QBs get up to speed. Even (especially) Reid in KC. Watch their games & you'll see they still incorporate those things today. Not nearly as much.

But Watson has had to learn the hard way & we're past that now. He's really a fine QB now. Still needs help time to time because of the weaknesses around him. We see he manages to overcome those weaknesses against bad teams, but in the playoffs, there ain't no bad teams.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Fortunately, he doesn't have to be great to win a SB. Well, maybe for the Texans he does, but he could win a SB with a better organization, no question.

To keep perspective on this, I think it's important to keep in mind that really only 4-5 teams are consistently happy with their QB play. I'm a recent Texans convert...I was previously a "Washington Football Team" fan. When Robert Griffin III was under center, I felt our chances of converting 3rd and 3 were worse than my chances of winning the Powerball. The ball was either batted down, thrown behind the receiver on a slant or thrown out of bounds. No exceptions. Well, the one exception was a sack since he was completely oblivious to pressure. Now that I watch the Texans, I see conversions on 3rd and 6 or 3rd and 7 on a semi-regular basis, and I cannot believe it! Before this, I literally thought anything more than 3rd and 2 was a signal for the punt team to hit the field.

Watson is still young and is on a good trajectory. I don't know if he'll be great. I *do* know that the Texans could have a Mayfield, Trubisky, Haskins, etc., so all things considered, Texans' fans should be counting their blessings. These truly elite QBs some people pine for do not grow on trees. Hell, Deshaun Watsons do not grow on trees. You have a QB who currently ranks 3rd in passer rating, 4th in passing yards, and 5th in TD passes, yet there's a lot of handwringing over the fact that he's not Rodgers in his 4th season. I don't really get it.
I really like RGIII coming out of college. Too bad Shanny ruined his career. I was hoping he would play really well today. Unfortunately he predictably got hurt again.

The 40 mil per yr contract is going to kill DW4's SB's chances at winning a SB. Steve young is the QB that took up the most cap space at 13.2 % and won a SB. DW4 will be eating up atleast 20% of the cap. Plus the other young QB's are up and coming plus they're still on their rookie deals. This doesn't even take into acct Mahomes is a bad man.
 

banned1976

All Pro
I never really wanted O'Brien to adapt to Watson per se. I just wanted him to help Watson adjust to the pro game.

Watch how other coaches incorporate things into the game plan to help young QBs get up to speed. Even (especially) Reid in KC. Watch their games & you'll see they still incorporate those things today. Not nearly as much.

But Watson has had to learn the hard way & we're past that now. He's really a fine QB now. Still needs help time to time because of the weaknesses around him. We see he manages to overcome those weaknesses against bad teams, but in the playoffs, there ain't no bad teams.
In the playoffs, if Watson can play like he did in the second half of the Bills playoff game and combine that with the first half of the Chiefs playoff game, Watson is on his way. He’s not going to get a shot at it this season but hopefully we will see it next season.
 

Earl34

All Pro
I never really wanted O'Brien to adapt to Watson per se. I just wanted him to help Watson adjust to the pro game.

Watch how other coaches incorporate things into the game plan to help young QBs get up to speed. Even (especially) Reid in KC. Watch their games & you'll see they still incorporate those things today. Not nearly as much.

But Watson has had to learn the hard way & we're past that now. He's really a fine QB now. Still needs help time to time because of the weaknesses around him. We see he manages to overcome those weaknesses against bad teams, but in the playoffs, there ain't no bad teams.
Good post. There was an article about a QB camp hosted by Jordan Palmer that Watson, Mahomes and several other older college QBs attended. The rooms were assigned by number of starts, so Mahomes and Watson were low men on the totem pole.

When it came to the classroom portion of the camp, Palmer was surprised by Watson's ability to breakdown plays. Mahomes did not perform as well during the classroom portion. Based on level of competition and Palmer's comments, I believe Watson was ahead of Mahomes in reading defenses and probably better equipped for BOB's EP system.

If Mahomes is the closest thing to Favre, I'm not sure O'Brien would have been as patient as Mike Holmgren was with Favre. During Mahomes rookie training camp, they were shocked by the number of INTs he was throwing. That's why Tyreek Hill thought he was 'trash". With BOB's emphasis on practice, would those same INTs get Mahomes in the rookie dog house?

Reid basically integrated many of the concepts and even terminology from the Texas Tech offense into his playbook for Mahomes. I doubt BOB would have done that for him. Personally, I really believe that in the classroom, BOB did a great job helping Watson read coverage and tendencies of NFL defenses. Unfortunately, his on field scheme didn't always make it easy for a young QB, but the BOB experience will definitely make the next HC or OC job easier. It can't get more difficult.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
No word play, I just pointed out something that you didn't care for. Some of those Eagles player got to Philly after he was gone. Truth is Reid is a great evaluator of talent. He wasn't looked at as a great HC until after Mahomes became his QB. Before Mahomes his teams were known for choking in the playoffs with McNabb/Smith etc... despite as you correctly pointed out all of the talent he had on his teams. My question for you is did Reid find the talent or did the GM's Eagles and Chiefs find the talent? I honestly dont know the answer to that question. What I do know is Reid is great at developing QB's. I'm guessing that you think Reid picks the guys he thinks he can develop? This is something that from the beginning (Jimmy G to Mahomes) BOB never got the chance to do.
Who came after Reid left? Macklin? DJack? Ertz? McCoy? Andy Reid since he's been a head coach has always been regarded as a great play caller. His issues have been time management and questions about situations running the ball. He went to the championship game 4 straight years. Who else has done that? If you want to say Mahomes is the 1st qb to have the talent to get him over the top, I agree, but Andy Reid from an offensive scheme/play designer is the absolute cream of the crop.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Who came after Reid left? Macklin? DJack? Ertz? McCoy? Andy Reid since he's been a head coach has always been regarded as a great play caller. His issues have been time management and questions about situations running the ball. He went to the championship game 4 straight years. Who else has done that? If you want to say Mahomes is the 1st qb to have the talent to get him over the top, I agree, but Andy Reid from an offensive scheme/play designer is the absolute cream of the crop.
Agreed, however without a SB he's not a HOF'er.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So Bud Grant and Marv Levy are in the HOF without titles, Marty is knocking on the door, but you're saying Reid wouldn't get in without a title? There are only 8 coaches in the history of football that has 200 wins. Andy Reid is one of them
How many SB's have those guys been too?

How many has Reid been to before last yr?
 


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