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The all encompassing DW4 good plays thread

JB said:
What makes you think that your opinion stinks any less than any others?
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It doesn't

It is what it is, an opinion in a friendly debate. It happens to be the correct opinion when it comes to Mahomes. Are you saying my opinion is wrong on Mahomes? You can accept my opinions or not. But I hold firm in my opinions and I'm more than willing to have a debate about my opinions.

BTW, my opinion on Mahomes was correct. My opinion on Cordarrelle Patterson was wrong. You hit some and you miss some. But what you shouldn't do is limit your choices.
 
steelbtexan said:
It doesn't

It is what it is, an opinion in a friendly debate. It happens to be the correct opinion when it comes to Mahomes. Are you saying my opinion is wrong on Mahomes? You can accept my opinions or not. But I hold firm in my opinions and I'm more than willing to have a debate about my opinions.

BTW, my opinion on Mahomes was correct. My opinion on Cordarrelle Patterson was wrong. You hit some and you miss some. But what you shouldn't do is limit your choices.
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The Mahomes lust is hilarious. Even being coached by the great Andy Reid, Mahomes admitted he didn't really start reading defenses until his 3rd year. Would he get overwhelmed by BOB and his version of the EP offense that requires so much pre snap reads and line calls? Being a gunslinger, would the mediocre Texans OL force him into turnovers that BOB would find unacceptable? There are so many variables, but your QB opinion is based on a single evaluation that ignores all variables including coaching, complementary skill positions and the OL.

During Mahomes first training camp, he struggled and was turnover prone. Would he develop at the same rate under BOB? With BOB's quick finger to pull QBs and not even wanting to move up to get Mahomes, if Mahomes is struggling, would he bench him to show up Ricky? Give Mahomes and the Chiefs credit for quickly recognizing his struggles and working with him, implementing Air Raid concepts and plays into their playbook. Give Mahomes credit for really working with the Chiefs staff and improving his game. To say the same would happen with the Texans is a useless exercise based on hindsight.

After practicing with Mahomes on a daily basis, here is Tyrek Hill on his initial opinion of Mahomes. So, you knew more than Hill who saw Mahomes in practice. Even after the first year, they didn't know what they had in Mahomes, but you did? Hindsight is an awesome thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1333951999310770176
 
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thunderkyss said:
C’mon, Reid traded from 29 to 10 to get him. It’s not like nobody saw what steelbtexan saw.
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The Saints were ready to take Mahomes at #11. Multiple teams liked him.

Teams liked Watson, too. The Jags considered him at #4, but Coughlin stuck with Bortles. Wound up costing Coughlin his job.

I don’t see the point of this. Watson was a great ******* pick. End of story.
 
thunderkyss said:
C’mon, Reid traded from 29 to 10 to get him. It’s not like nobody saw what steelbtexan saw.
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I didn't say nobody saw what SteelB saw. My issue with SteelB's Mahomes' lust and the championship proclamations is the evaluating of Mahomes/Watson in a vacuum. SteelB totally ignores the impact of Andy Reid, their coaching staff, how they changed Mahomes' mechanics, Kelce, Hill and others in Mahomes development and championship.

Mahomes was drafted into a great situation and with Andy Reid it became a perfect HC/QB union. We cannot say unequivocally that the same would have occurred with BOB and Mahomes. Especially with his struggles in his first year. That's why I consider the constant, self glossing over Mahomes funny.
 
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kiwitexansfan said:
I love Watson but calling him a generational talent while Mahomes is destroying the league is a stretch in my opinion.
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He has Andy Reid too. The same coach that had people believing Alex Smith could win a title. The same coach that had Vick putting up video game numbers. The same coach that got a 1st rd pick for Kevin Kolb. Not to diminish Mahomes, but from a offensive play caller /play designer, he's top shelf in the history of football. Andy Reid can offensive skilled players all through the draft.
 
Earl34 said:
The Mahomes lust is hilarious. Even being coached by the great Andy Reid, Mahomes admitted he didn't really start reading defenses until his 3rd year. Would he get overwhelmed by BOB and his version of the EP offense that requires so much pre snap reads and line calls? Being a gunslinger, would the mediocre Texans OL force him into turnovers that BOB would find unacceptable? There are so many variables, but your QB opinion is based on a single evaluation that ignores all variables including coaching, complementary skill positions and the OL.

During Mahomes first training camp, he struggled and was turnover prone. Would he develop at the same rate under BOB? With BOB's quick finger to pull QBs and not even wanting to move up to get Mahomes, if Mahomes is struggling, would he bench him to show up Ricky? Give Mahomes and the Chiefs credit for quickly recognizing his struggles and working with him, implementing Air Raid concepts and plays into their playbook. Give Mahomes credit for really working with the Chiefs staff and improving his game. To say the same would happen with the Texans is a useless exercise based on hindsight.

After practicing with Mahomes on a daily basis, here is Tyrek Hill on his initial opinion of Mahomes. So, you knew more than Hill who saw Mahomes in practice. Even after the first year, they didn't know what they had in Mahomes, but you did? Hindsight is an awesome thing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1333951999310770176
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You're right, I guess this is why Tyreek won't ever be a personnel guy. Nice try at explaining away the dumb decision not to trade up for Mahomes. You also don't know what BOB could have done with Mahomes. You do know BOB wanted Mahomes so I am betting things would have turned out better with Mahomes than DW4 because BOB would have gotten to work with his guy.

Tyreek probably did this interview after beating his babies momma
 
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Earl34 said:
I didn't say nobody saw what SteelB saw. My issue with SteelB's Mahomes' lust and the championship proclamations is the evaluating of Mahomes/Watson in a vacuum. SteelB totally ignores the impact of Andy Reid, their coaching staff, how they changed Mahomes' mechanics, Kelce, Hill and others in Mahomes development and championship.

Mahomes was drafted into a great situation and with Andy Reid it became a perfect HC/QB union. We cannot say unequivocally that the same would have occurred with BOB and Mahomes. Especially with his struggles in his first year.
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You can't say it wouldn't have happened either. We are talking about a transcendent talent. You're certainly overplaying his struggles his rookie yr. The only game he played in he played well in. What this really comes down to is another BOB bashing. Truth is I don't have lust for Mahomes. I just wanted to see what BOB could do with a QB of his choosing.
 
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leebigeztx said:
He has Andy Reid too. The same coach that had people believing Alex Smith could win a title. The same coach that had Vick putting up video game numbers. The same coach that got a 1st rd pick for Kevin Kolb. Not to diminish Mahomes, but from a offensive play caller /play designer, he's top shelf in the history of football. Andy Reid can offensive skilled players all through the draft.
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The same Andy Reid that has never won a SB and had been run out of Philly because he was thought to be a choker in the playoffs and the same thing was happening in K.C., then along came Mahomes.
 
thunderkyss said:
C’mon, Reid traded from 29 to 10 to get him. It’s not like nobody saw what steelbtexan saw.
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I wasn't even the only person on this MB who saw it.

For the record I've never said that Mahomes would bring a championship to Houston. I have said Mahomes was a generational talent. Those kinds of guys tend to win championship's.

At the time I saw Mahomes as a young Favre. Reid and Mahomes hard work made him even better than Favre was.
 
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steelbtexan said:
The same Andy Reid that has never won a SB and had been run out of Philly because he was thought to be a choker in the playoffs and the same thing was happening in K.C., then along came Mahomes.
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You cant wordplay me. As an offensive football coach, show me one better in the last 20 yrs. Show me a coach that has had qbs have career yrs under him as often as Andy Reid. Show me a coach that can find Bryan Westbrook, McCoy, William's, Hunts in 2nd and 3rd rd and make them all pro backs. DJack, McClin, Ertz, Lewis, Duce, Cheetah, Hardeman, Kelce, were all 2 rd picks or lower and have been top flight at their position. He has won over 61% of his games.
 
steelbtexan said:
You can't say it wouldn't have happened either. We are talking about a transcendent talent. You're certainly overplaying his struggles his rookie yr. The only game he played in he played well in. What this really comes down to is another BOB bashing. Truth is I don't have list for Mahomes. I just wanted to see what BOB could do with a QB of his choosing.
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Honestly, I know I'm asking alot, but do you think OBrien evaluated Mahomes and his style of play? If you read enough on Andy Reid, you would know he watches tape of QBs all the time. Looking at OBrien and his thoughts on player and player types, Mahomes would've never been on his radar at any point.
 
steelbtexan said:
You're right, I guess this is why Tyreek won't ever be a personnel guy. Nice try at explaining away the dumb decision not to trade up for Mahomes. You also don't know what BOB could have done with Mahomes. You do know BOB wanted Mahomes so I am betting things would have turned out better with Mahomes than DW4 because BOB would have gotten to work with his guy.

Tyreek probably did this interview after beating his babies momma
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You have 0, absolutely 0 proof OBrien wanted Mahomes. I even pulled up the articles from McClain in his mocks at 23 and he stated the Texans are probably going to draft a qb at 23 and it will probably be Mahomes. Watson and Trubisky would be gone. You have this narrative even though nothing in OBrien history tells anyone that Mahomes was his guy.
 
leebigeztx said:
Honestly, I know I'm asking alot, but do you think OBrien evaluated Mahomes and his style of play? If you read enough on Andy Reid, you would know he watches tape of QBs all the time. Looking at OBrien and his thoughts on player and player types, Mahomes would've never been on his radar at any point.
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Exert from a 2017 pre-NFL draft scouting report-
There should be a limit to how much his next team wants to clean up his mechanics—pushing Mahomes to be too bland would take away his improvisational skills.

That would have been enough to send O'Brien running into the hills but had the Texans drafted Mahomes, OB would have pushed him to the bland side. It's where O'Brien chooses to live. And it's where he drove Watson.
 
leebigeztx said:
Honestly, I know I'm asking alot, but do you think OBrien evaluated Mahomes and his style of play? If you read enough on Andy Reid, you would know he watches tape of QBs all the time. Looking at OBrien and his thoughts on player and player types, Mahomes would've never been on his radar at any point.
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Even in that Rick Smith interview on how they drafted Watson. It doesn’t appear as if anyone in the room was banging the table for Mahomes. Hell, it didn’t appear as if any of them even wanted to move up for a QB.

When Fuller a WR2 was out, BOB couldn’t even adjust his game plans with other options, he never figured out how to use the RBs to their strengths, he runs one of the most ineffective offenses in football, but we are to believe with Mahomes, he would have him playing at the same level as Reid? Sorry, but I call BS.
 
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steelbtexan said:
You're right, I guess this is why Tyreek won't ever be a personnel guy. Nice try at explaining away the dumb decision not to trade up for Mahomes. You also don't know what BOB could have done with Mahomes. You do know BOB wanted Mahomes so I am betting things would have turned out better with Mahomes than DW4 because BOB would have gotten to work with his guy.

Tyreek probably did this interview after beating his babies momma
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Based on OB's history with Texans QB's.....I wouldn't expect a big jump from Mahomes. OB's offensive playbook isn't conducive in creating success stories, it's far to predictable and old school for today's NFL.
 
steelbtexan said:
You can't say it wouldn't have happened either. We are talking about a transcendent talent. You're certainly overplaying his struggles his rookie yr. The only game he played in he played well in. What this really comes down to is another BOB bashing. Truth is I don't have list for Mahomes. I just wanted to see what BOB could do with a QB of his choosing.
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OB had 4 QB's of his choosing and each one was worse than the previous one. In Watson, he got a QB who could overcome OB's ability to coach down his QB with his gut-wrenching predictable offense. As I've mentioned in the past.......Watson's QB abilities kept OB at the Texans helm far longer than should've ever been allowed.
 
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Earl34 said:
If Ricky didn’t trade up, similar to the Garoppolo draft, he would have been crucified for not moving up for a QB. The complaints would be that he didn’t trade up for Mahomes OR Watson. Go figure.
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......not to mention, if Mahomes didn't progress at the rate expected under OB and b/c of the price paid to trade up to the 9th pick......the 20/20 hindsight calls of busted pick would've been deafening. Just another Run-N-Shoot CFB QB who couldn't elevate his game to NFL levels. Also, it would be extremely hard to determine how the hit and sack parade on Watson would've been handled by Mahomes b/c he never faced these challenges in KC.
 
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Newbie poster here. My handle should tell you exactly what I think about DW4.

I've been lurking on this forum since right before the 2017 draft. I went back and looked at some of the old threads and the only poster who seemed to have come close to predicting what Mahomes could have been was Corrosion. One poster even said Mahomes "at best" would be a cross between Matt Stafford and Russell Wilson, which is not exactly a description of a generational or transcendental talent.
 
Earl34 said:
Anticipation, accuracy and a great catch.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1332031495188459530
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I think the touch and accuracy on Deshaun's deep ball tends to go overlooked. He also has a knack for throwing the back shoulder fade. This was evident in his first start as a freshman against UNC.

This is not really the case with our current QB (Trevor Lawrence). It's not that he doesn't throw a good deep ball; it's that he doesn't quite have the touch and the ability to drop the ball in a bucket the way Deshaun did early on his college career.
 
thunderkyss said:
I hear you. I'm sure he understands. In another thread he was talking about that union.
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Apparently he really doesn’t. If he did he wouldn’t be hell bent on trying to convince people otherwise. I’ve been on a lot of forums and I never seen this much negativity towards one player from only one member. And never seen a member shift that negativity from one individual ( after he gone) to another individual. It’s like they have to place blame solely on one person. Yes they have talked bad towards the McNairs. Difference is he’s not doing that every single day. Dude probably didn’t want Smith as a GM and we all know Watson wasn’t his choice at quarterback
 
ClemsonTexan said:
Newbie poster here. My handle should tell you exactly what I think about DW4.

I've been lurking on this forum since right before the 2017 draft. I went back and looked at some of the old threads and the only poster who seemed to have come close to predicting what Mahomes could have been was Corrosion. One poster even said Mahomes "at best" would be a cross between Matt Stafford and Russell Wilson, which is not exactly a description of a generational or transcendental talent.
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What did I say about him? Probably not much. I looked back at the 2017 draft day (day 1) thread and the only (stupid, in retrospect) comment I made about KC drafting him was that it was a lot of draft capital given up. I'm a bit of a draft pick miser.

It's kind of funny. I was real active in that thread up until fight before the Texans drafted Watson. I didn't make a single post after the 11th pick. I think I was in a state of shock for the rest of the night, unable to move my fingers. The first jolt came when it was announced the Texans moved up from the 25th spot. They never, ever gamble like that in the draft. What the H E double hockey sticks is going on?!?! Then they picked Watson. That's when I blacked out.

Seriously though, I spent the rest of the night watching videos of Watson. All of them. Even though I really liked what I saw, I'll be honest, the pick miser is strong in me. But I'd seen both championships he played in against Alabama and what impressed me most was his poise under the biggest of spotlights. It kind of reminded me of Joe Montana.
 
leebigeztx said:
You cant wordplay me. As an offensive football coach, show me one better in the last 20 yrs. Show me a coach that has had qbs have career yrs under him as often as Andy Reid. Show me a coach that can find Bryan Westbrook, McCoy, William's, Hunts in 2nd and 3rd rd and make them all pro backs. DJack, McClin, Ertz, Lewis, Duce, Cheetah, Hardeman, Kelce, were all 2 rd picks or lower and have been top flight at their position. He has won over 61% of his games.
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No word play, I just pointed out something that you didn't care for. Some of those Eagles player got to Philly after he was gone. Truth is Reid is a great evaluator of talent. He wasn't looked at as a great HC until after Mahomes became his QB. Before Mahomes his teams were known for choking in the playoffs with McNabb/Smith etc... despite as you correctly pointed out all of the talent he had on his teams. My question for you is did Reid find the talent or did the GM's Eagles and Chiefs find the talent? I honestly dont know the answer to that question. What I do know is Reid is great at developing QB's. I'm guessing that you think Reid picks the guys he thinks he can develop? This is something that from the beginning (Jimmy G to Mahomes) BOB never got the chance to do.
 
leebigeztx said:
Honestly, I know I'm asking alot, but do you think OBrien evaluated Mahomes and his style of play? If you read enough on Andy Reid, you would know he watches tape of QBs all the time. Looking at OBrien and his thoughts on player and player types, Mahomes would've never been on his radar at any point.
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I do believe as reported BOB wanted Mahomes. I have no idea if BOB watched alot of Mahomes tape. I also dont know how good Mahomes would've been under BOB, I would've liked to have had the opportunity to find out though.
 
steelbtexan said:
No word play, I just pointed out something that you didn't care for. Some of those Eagles player got to Philly after he was gone. Truth is Reid is a great evaluator of talent. He wasn't looked at as a great HC until after Mahomes became his QB. Before Mahomes his teams were known for choking in the playoffs with McNabb/Smith etc... despite as you correctly pointed out all of the talent he had on his teams. My question for you is did Reid find the talent or did the GM's Eagles and Chiefs find the talent? I honestly dont know the answer to that question. What I do know is Reid is great at developing QB's. I'm guessing that you think Reid picks the guys he thinks he can develop? This is something that from the beginning (Jimmy G to Mahomes) BOB never got the chance to do.
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The Chiefs GM (Brett Veach) was scouting Texas Tech OL and came across Mahomes. He was really high on Mahomes and said the following:

“I started sending [Reid] video clip after video clip, 10 at a time — each one showing what he could do,” Veach said.
“Each one seemed better than the last," Reid said. “I finally said, ‘Enough, I get it.’”

How Patrick Mahomes was drafted by Kansas City - South Florida Sun-Sentinel (sun-sentinel.com)
 
steelbtexan said:
No word play, I just pointed out something that you didn't care for. Some of those Eagles player got to Philly after he was gone. Truth is Reid is a great evaluator of talent. He wasn't looked at as a great HC until after Mahomes became his QB. Before Mahomes his teams were known for choking in the playoffs with McNabb/Smith etc... despite as you correctly pointed out all of the talent he had on his teams. My question for you is did Reid find the talent or did the GM's Eagles and Chiefs find the talent? I honestly dont know the answer to that question. What I do know is Reid is great at developing QB's. I'm guessing that you think Reid picks the guys he thinks he can develop? This is something that from the beginning (Jimmy G to Mahomes) BOB never got the chance to do.
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I don't agree with this. The Eagles went to 4 straight NFC Championship games under Andy Reid (and the 2005 SB). Objectively, that is the mark of a great coach, at least during his stint in Philly while McNabb was in his physical prime.

Now Reid got a lot of criticism for making boneheaded in-game decisions as well as relying on the passing game too much (ahead of his time). But I don't think there should be any question that he was a Top 3-5 coach in the NFL for at least 5-6 years.

At any rate, the question here was whether Reid was a great offensive mind (not a great coach, which is different imo.). I say the answer to that is unequivocally "yes."
 
banned1976 said:
What did I say about him? Probably not much. I looked back at the 2017 draft day (day 1) thread and the only (stupid, in retrospect) comment I made about KC drafting him was that it was a lot of draft capital given up. I'm a bit of a draft pick miser.

It's kind of funny. I was real active in that thread up until fight before the Texans drafted Watson. I didn't make a single post after the 11th pick. I think I was in a state of shock for the rest of the night, unable to move my fingers. The first jolt came when it was announced the Texans moved up from the 25th spot. They never, ever gamble like that in the draft. What the H E double hockey sticks is going on?!?! Then they picked Watson. That's when I blacked out.

Seriously though, I spent the rest of the night watching videos of Watson. All of them. Even though I really liked what I saw, I'll be honest, the pick miser is strong in me. But I'd seen both championships he played in against Alabama and what impressed me most was his poise under the biggest of spotlights. It kind of reminded me of Joe Montana.
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I was surprised we went up that far to get quarterback too. It was a bold move in which they had to do imo. We’ve been screaming for a franchise type quarterback for ages. Personally I wasn’t happy in which that position was being handled by O’Brien. Granted the late McNair didn’t think we needed that type of quarterback to win it all. If we would’ve landed Mahomas I would have been equally excited. Both of them showed great potential of being a franchise quarterback in this league. When we landed Watson I started posting his highlights.
 
leebigeztx said:
You have 0, absolutely 0 proof OBrien wanted Mahomes. I even pulled up the articles from McClain in his mocks at 23 and he stated the Texans are probably going to draft a qb at 23 and it will probably be Mahomes. Watson and Trubisky would be gone. You have this narrative even though nothing in OBrien history tells anyone that Mahomes was his guy.
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I cant go back and look but CnD put something out there way back when.

Just like I cant prove BOB wanted Jimmy G. But that was what was reported way back then.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I don't agree with this. The Eagles went to 4 straight NFC Championship games under Andy Reid (and the 2005 SB). Objectively, that is the mark of a great coach, at least during his stint in Philly while McNabb was in his physical prime.

Now Reid got a lot of criticism for making boneheaded in-game decisions as well as relying on the passing game too much (ahead of his time). But I don't think there should be any question that he was a Top 3-5 coach in the NFL for at least 5-6 years.

At any rate, the question here was whether Reid was a great offensive mind (not a great coach, which is different imo.). I say the answer to that is unequivocally "yes."
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Obviously Lurie didn't believe this when he fired Reid.

This was about Reid being a HOF HC, which now I believe he is a HOF HC.
 
banned1976 said:
What did I say about him? Probably not much. I looked back at the 2017 draft day (day 1) thread and the only (stupid, in retrospect) comment I made about KC drafting him was that it was a lot of draft capital given up. I'm a bit of a draft pick miser.

It's kind of funny. I was real active in that thread up until fight before the Texans drafted Watson. I didn't make a single post after the 11th pick. I think I was in a state of shock for the rest of the night, unable to move my fingers. The first jolt came when it was announced the Texans moved up from the 25th spot. They never, ever gamble like that in the draft. What the H E double hockey sticks is going on?!?! Then they picked Watson. That's when I blacked out.

Seriously though, I spent the rest of the night watching videos of Watson. All of them. Even though I really liked what I saw, I'll be honest, the pick miser is strong in me. But I'd seen both championships he played in against Alabama and what impressed me most was his poise under the biggest of spotlights. It kind of reminded me of Joe Montana.
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I never advocated for the trade-up. In all honesty, I expected both Mahomes and Watson to fall into the second half of RD1. I was fully expecting Mahomes or Watson to be there at the Texans pick. I was also prepared to see Mahomes become the Texans new QB1 when the team spent time with him, interviewed him on the side and when Mahomes figured he was going to be the Texans next QB. When KC made the bold move to trade up to the 10 spot for Mahomes I figured other positions would get hot and Watson would be there for the Texans taking.

When the Texans traded up to get Watson.....I was seriously pizzed for a few reasons:
1. I was absolutely sure Watson would be there for the Texans without trading up.
2. I felt RS and the Texans get the good end of the deal....especially after the Osweiler fiasco. To get nailed twice for a single position within a 12 month period was a bitter pill to swallow.
3. Looking and looking at the War Room image that was released only showed one man excited with the pick. Remember the old saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words"? I seen a room divided and that's not a great mate when drafting the team's first Franchise QB since David Carr.
4. I had absolutely zero faith in OB, his offensive system, his obvious micro-manager mentality, and his ability to coach-up Watson since he had burned through so many of his hand picked QB's. Now he was getting another QB, which appeared, he didn't want. We had already watched how that flamed out and the cost to correct the duck up so I was immensely concerned when it came to Watson and price paid.

Watson has certainly made me believer over his time with the Texans and now I'm pizzed b/c OB was the one left in charge of building and developing a team around his Franchise QB. I'm just happy that OB was shown the ducking door before he could destroy another QB or hurt this organization any further.
 
steelbtexan said:
This was about Reid being a HOF HC, which now I believe he is a HOF HC.
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I'm sorry, but how did you come to believe that "this was about Reid being a HOF HC"? Here is the claim you disputed.

"Not to diminish Mahomes, but from a offensive play caller /play designer, he's top shelf in the history of football. Andy Reid can offensive skilled players all through the draft."

What does that have to do with being a HOF HC? The point being made was that Reid is an offensive genius, which is an opinion I'm inclined to agree with.

 
OptimisticTexan said:
Based on OB's history with Texans QB's.....I wouldn't expect a big jump from Mahomes. OB's offensive playbook isn't conducive in creating success stories, it's far to predictable and old school for today's NFL.
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I know you feel this way.

But working with Fitz/Hoyer/Mallett/Os and for that matter DW4 is quite different than working with Mahomes. Like I said Mahomes is the only generational talent on that list. You can debate DW4 but there's no debating about the other guys.
 
steelbtexan said:
Obviously Lurie didn't believe this when he fired Reid.

This was about Reid being a HOF HC, which now I believe he is a HOF HC.
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I saw a stat that since Reid became the Chiefs' HC, they have won 5 consecutive games every year. That's eight years and counting. Yes, he got pass happy at times and will still make the questionable game day decision, but Reid was on his way to the HOF without Mahomes. Winning the Super Bowl makes it a no brainer. He probably could have won a Super Bowl with Alex Smith, but Smith was never willing to push the ball downfield or take chances. He was a game manager and not a dynamic play maker.

Like I said, it's the perfect union between HC and QB.
 
Texansballer74 said:
What’s crazy is dude was so high on O’Brien who hasn’t done anything in the NFL. But wants talk down Andy Reid like he’s a chump coach. Lol at him being a choker.
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Let me see if I get this right. To be successful, O'Brien has to have control of personnel and now has to have a generational talent like Mahomes. How many other coaches need to have all of these things to consistently compete against .500 and above teams?
 
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steelbtexan said:
I know you feel this way.

But working with Fitz/Hoyer/Mallett/Os and for that matter DW4 is quite different than working with Mahomes. Like I said Mahomes is the only generational talent on that list. You can debate DW4 but there's no debating about the other guys.
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Round peg....square hole offense. I believe OB would've tried to take that Mahomes peg and ram it into his square hole. Reid was the one who was willing to round his square out in order to get the most from his shiny new round peg....and his peg got hm a SB trophy. OB left his hole square and now he's unemployed. All I can say, OB should've got his hole rounded.....even if it meant a conjugal visit to Huntsville to expedite the process. It might've saved his job.
 
Earl34 said:
The Chiefs GM (Brett Veach) was scouting Texas Tech OL and came across Mahomes. He was really high on Mahomes and said the following:

“I started sending [Reid] video clip after video clip, 10 at a time — each one showing what he could do,” Veach said.
“Each one seemed better than the last," Reid said. “I finally said, ‘Enough, I get it.’”

How Patrick Mahomes was drafted by Kansas City - South Florida Sun-Sentinel (sun-sentinel.com)
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So the Chiefs GM convinced Reid just like Ricky convinced BO'b.... cool. Like a well oiled machine.
 
Earl34 said:
Le me see if I get this right. To be successful, O'Brien has to have control of personnel and now has to have a generational talent like Mahomes. How many other coaches need to have all of these things to consistently compete against .500 and above teams?
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Exactly.

My thing is if he would’ve went about his business correctly. He would have noticed he had a generational quarterback. All he had to do was change up his crazy philosophy to fit the skill set of his players.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I'm sorry, but how did you come to believe that "this was about Reid being a HOF HC"? Here is the claim you disputed.

"Not to diminish Mahomes, but from a offensive play caller /play designer, he's top shelf in the history of football. Andy Reid can offensive skilled players all through the draft."

What does that have to do with being a HOF HC? The point being made was that Reid is an offensive genius, which is an opinion I'm inclined to agree with.
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Obviously you missed what the discussion was about.

It was about whether Reid was a HOF HC or not and without Mahomes he wouldn't be a HOF HC. BTW, I agree with the bolded part of your post.
 
banned1976 said:
Seriously though, I spent the rest of the night watching videos of Watson. All of them. Even though I really liked what I saw, I'll be honest, the pick miser is strong in me. But I'd seen both championships he played in against Alabama and what impressed me most was his poise under the biggest of spotlights. It kind of reminded me of Joe Montana.
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Haha. Like I said, I've been lurking here since 2017. I thought about opening an account and posting after he was drafted if only to dispel some misconceptions about his game (I have seen EVERY single snap he took at Clemson). But I figured I'd just keep quiet in case he became a bust LOL.

I have to say I was a bit surprised by the mixed reactions to DW4 coming out of college. He certainly was not without his flaws, but there were some draft reports basically calling him "undraftable." I thought the two games against Alabama would have put some of the doubt to rest, especially the first NCG where we were down our 2 top receivers (Mike Williams suffered a broken neck and Deon Cain was suspended for smoking weed). We didn't even have a great offensive line and he still found a way to go off for 600 total yards. I never expected experts to rate him as highly as Andrew Luck, but I was not expecting the torrent of negative criticism he ultimately received, particularly with respect to his accuracy. Funny how this aspect of his game got picked apart while Trevor Lawrence routinely overthrows receivers and yet is considered the greatest thing in college football since Luck. But when he overthrows receivers, it tends to be a tight spiral, and the ball is traveling at 64 mph, so I guess the lack of accuracy is not that big of a deal.
 
steelbtexan said:
Obviously you missed what the discussion was about.

It was about whether Reid was a HOF HC or not and without Mahomes he wouldn't be a HOF HC. BTW, I agree with the bolded part of your post.
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I obviously must have. The first reference I see to "HOF" is your post. The other posts I saw said that Reid was a great offensive mind, not an ATG coach. Please direct me to the post that claimed Reid was a HOF coach. More than happy to admit when I'm mistaken.
 
ClemsonTexan said:
I obviously must have. The first reference I see to "HOF" is your post. The other posts I saw said that Reid was a great offensive mind, not an ATG coach. Please direct me to the post that claimed Reid was a HOF coach. More than happy to admit when I'm mistaken.
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Look back through Earl and my exchange.

Not just the recent posts either.

Anyway that exchange wasn't meant for you although I appreciate your input.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Round peg....square hole offense. I believe OB would've tried to take that Mahomes peg and ram it into his square hole. Reid was the one who was willing to round his square out in order to get the most from his shiny new round peg....and his peg got hm a SB trophy. OB left his hole square and now he's unemployed. All I can say, OB should've got his hole rounded.....even if it meant a conjugal visit to Huntsville to expedite the process. It might've saved his job.
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For one, I think the comparisons to Mahomes need to stop. No point in dwelling on hypotheticals.

That aside, how do you think DW4's skillset could be better used? I actually wonder if BOB's system will ultimately shape him into a more well-rounded QB. I never wanted him to become a Lamar Jackson-type who becomes overly-reliant on his feet. His athleticism will be there, at least for the next few years, so I'd rather him learn the position from the pocket, and then break out his running ability AFTER he's developed into a good pocket passer (which I think he is though he obviously needs to continue improving).

I don't think he's come close to reaching his ceiling yet. If he becomes an even more polished passer, and develops a better sense of when to stay in the pocket and when to bail, AND coaches start using his legs a bit more on designed run plays, I think the sky is the limit for him. We shall see.
 
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