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The Actual And Real 2016 Texans' Talk Mock Draft Extravaganza

TexansFTW said:
Why do we want a slot WR so bad when we have a better one, today, in Cecil Shorts if we can just find someone to put on the outside so he can actually be used in the slot?
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bah007 said:
I think Strong has what it takes to be a solid #2 outside. Shorts is a versatile weapon that can play both spots.

So you would have Hop at #1, Strong/Shorts at #2, and Shepard/Shorts at #3 depending on situation. Plus, if you needed to have four wide you would have two guys that excel in the slot.

I also think that Shorts was brought in as a short term filler for that spot. Strong was drafted last year for the outside spot. My gut tells me they are looking for that inside guy in this draft.
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Tyler Lockett was suppose to be our guy last year before the Seachickens took him. We've been looking for a slot guy.
 
JB said:
Since we went DT in the first, I believe we have to add to the depth of the OL while we can. Are we going to completely forget the prognosis of DB? The performance of Newton? I don't believe we have answered the question of Center either. I'm ok with a WR, but it needs to be a difference maker. Lots of good receivers with Sheperds attributes can be picked up later in the draft. Receiver is not our biggest need nor is Sheperd the top receiver available. How does this make sense?
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This is just me personally, but I have a first ground grade on Shepard and he is the top player left on the board, and by far the top WR. I think he's in the upper tier with Doctson and Treadwell.

Sure, there are guys with Shepard's athleticism, but they can't get open like he does.

There are guys that can run routes like Shepard, but they don't catch as well as he does.

And there are guys that can catch the ball, but can't get themselves open.

Shepard is extremely well-rounded and perfectly suited for an offense that utilizes a slot receiver. He's a weapon at all three levels of the defense, which dictates coverage for the defense. Fuller is only dangerous at one level, and he can't just run in a straight line past defenders in the NFL. That will work sometimes, but Cordarrelle Patterson is pretty fast too, and poor route running and poor hands have left him with minimal ability to be an impact player on offense.
 
lol, Fuller hate is unreal here just to sell points on Sheppard.

He didn't get 29 TDs in 2 years running in straight lines and muffing body catches.

Bottom line is both aren't going to be as good as Michael Thomas who will rot away in Atlanta. Maybe we can trade for him in 3 years.

EDIT: Yeah, lol, Just rewatched highlight reels of his 15 TDs from last year. Sorry boys, this is just hate because Sheppard isn't the pick. Fuller is legit.
 
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TexansFTW said:
lol, Fuller hate is unreal here just to sell points on Sheppard.

Bottom line is both aren't going to be as good as Michael Thomas who will rot away in Atlanta. Maybe we can trade for him in 3 years.
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It's not hate. This is an exercise in drafting an imaginary team. No one hate a player. Some of us like other players...like WRs with hands not made of stone.
 
TexansFTW said:
lol, Fuller hate is unreal here just to sell points on Sheppard.

Bottom line is both aren't going to be as good as Michael Thomas who will rot away in Atlanta. Maybe we can trade for him in 3 years.
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It's not hate. It's a realistic outlook on the specific player's strengths and weaknesses.

One guy is incredibly good at getting open downfield. He's really fast. However, he doesn't run good routes in the short or intermediate areas and he's dropped the most passes in the entire country two years in a row.

The other guy is also fast, just not quite as fast. He doesn't get open downfield quite as much, but he runs excellent routes in the short and intermediate areas and gets open all the time. He also has the lowest drop rate in the country the last two years.
 
Alot of exaggerating going on with Fuller. Horrible hands? This guy caught 29 touchdowns in the last two years. Sterling Shephard caught 26 touchdowns in a 4 year career at Oklahoma.

Shephard may have better hands and he may work specific routes more comfortably than Fuller right now, but to act as if Fuller's hands are poor is lazy. You don't catch 29 touchdowns in 2 years from 3 different quarterbacks if your hands suck. You also aren't a one trick go route pony and catch 29 touchdowns. It doesn't work that way. I watched quite a bit of Fuller and he has a knack for getting open and it's not all about speed. You can see that he has a feel for setting up his man and getting open. It's almost better that his routes aren't super precise yet because there is room for improvement, which is really encouraging. Shepard is more of a technician that can't improve as much in that area, although he's also a good athlete. I would rate the two pretty closely, so I don't dislike Shephard, I just think some defense of Fuller is warranted.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Alot of exaggerating going on with Fuller. Horrible hands? This guy caught 29 touchdowns in the last two years. Sterling Shephard caught 26 touchdowns in a 4 year career at Oklahoma.

Shephard may have better hands and he may work specific routes more comfortably than Fuller right now, but to act as if Fuller's hands are poor is lazy. You don't catch 29 touchdowns in 2 years from 3 different quarterbacks if your hands suck. You also aren't a one trick go route pony and catch 29 touchdowns. It doesn't work that way. I watched quite a bit of Fuller and he has a knack for getting open and it's not all about speed. You can see that he has a feel for setting up his man and getting open. It's almost better that his routes aren't super precise yet because there is room for improvement, which is really encouraging. Shepard is more of a technician that can't improve as much in that area, although he's also a good athlete. I would rate the two pretty closely, so I don't dislike Shephard, I just think some defense of Fuller is warranted.
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You make a good point about Fuller's ability in space and how that could be translated to different routes once he is taught. But it's not subjective to question his hands. Two years in a row he has led the entire country in drops. That's a fact.

For me it comes down to this. Fuller could learn how to run routes at all three levels, but Shepard already can. He may not be quite the athlete that Fuller is but he is still a dang good athlete. And his hands are unquestionably better.

I'm fine with Fuller as the pick. I just would have preferred Shepard. But the war room has spoken.
 

Watch how many times Fuller gets open against Mackenzie Alexander on short to intermediate routes but the freshman QB overthrows him.
 
bah007 said:
You make a good point about Fuller's ability in space and how that could be translated to different routes once he is taught. But it's not subjective to question his hands. Two years in a row he has led the entire country in drops. That's a fact.

For me it comes down to this. Fuller could learn how to run routes at all three levels, but Shepard already can. He may not be quite the athlete that Fuller is but he is still a dang good athlete. And his hands are unquestionably better.

I'm fine with Fuller as the pick. I just would have preferred Shepard. But the war room has spoken.
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Fuller definitely needs to be more consistent, but I wouldn't call his hands horrible. He's not making 4-5 short easy catches every game like a lot of volume receivers, he is targeted more on intermediate to deep routes, which are significantly harder to catch. That has to be factored in.

I would also be fine with Shephard, I agree with you on his skill set. I also think he's got a special work ethic, which is a huge plus. I just think Fuller is getting a bit of a raw deal here.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Fuller definitely needs to be more consistent, but I wouldn't call his hands horrible. He's not making 4-5 short easy catches every game like a lot of volume receivers, he is targeted more on intermediate to deep routes, which are significantly harder to catch. That has to be factored in.

I would also be fine with Shephard, I agree with you on his skill set. I also think he's got a special work ethic, which is a huge plus. I just think Fuller is getting a bit of a raw deal here.
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Raw deal? He's already won the vote. :)
 
Actually if I were in charge of the pick I would take Carl Nassib. Crick is gone to Denver and we have no good depth. A rotation of watt, wilfork, billings, Nassib and covington would allow the defense to cotinue the pace it ended last season with.
 
With the 52nd selection in the 2016 draft, YOUR HOUSTON TEXANS select Will Fuller, WR, Notre Dame.

texas-2.jpg


He's fixin' ta take some tops off some defenses.
 
Not a great name for a corner, but.....

The Washington NFL team selects:

Artie Burns, CB, Miami
 
mussop said:
Actually if I were in charge of the pick I would take Carl Nassib. Crick is gone to Denver and we have no good depth. A rotation of watt, wilfork, billings, Nassib and covington would allow the defense to cotinue the pace it ended last season with.
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Also, Watt having all these injuries would suggest it would be wise to invest there. Good point.

Alot of good options at this point in the draft.

I wish I knew more about later round OTs as it will become increasingly more difficult for me to vote for them based on plain ignorance.
 
mussop said:
Actually if I were in charge of the pick I would take Carl Nassib. Crick is gone to Denver and we have no good depth. A rotation of watt, wilfork, billings, Nassib and covington would allow the defense to cotinue the pace it ended last season with.
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lol, that's what I was saying earlier but everyone wanted to take a NT. I guess we can just put a scarecrow on that side of the field with its arms up. Probably do better than Devin Still or whatever his name is
 
The Pencil Neck said:
When Will Fuller first came up as a possible first round selection by us, I was fine with it. He was a relatively highly ranked WR on most boards.

But as time has gone by and I've gotten more information (I don't watch nearly as many college games as some guys and rely on second hand information more than my own judgment), I don't see Fuller as that great of a deal. He's a fast guy but not great hands.

OTOH, if you look at the people who are pulling for Fuller, they're guys who know football and know their players. So, if it's Fuller, it's Fuller.
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He caught my eye at the combine. I know around here, people talk about poor hands, but Mayock & the crew were talking about his natural ability to catch the ball... it's like breathing for us. Hopefully they're right, & we're too critical. If he's our pick that is.
 
TexansFTW said:
I don't understand this.... Falcons already gave Sanu 5 year / $32 M. That's the Roddy White replacement.

This guy would have been the perfect Jaelen Strong replacement for Texans. I know since talking of it earlier a lot of people aren't worried about Strong, but I am. I know an idiot when I see it. People weren't afraid for Martavis Bryant either until he kept on and kept on. We don't address this eventually then it's gonna always be Nuk, the next Nate Washington Journeyman, and garbage TEs until Nuk gets tired of this and leaves.
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Like I said, for the Falcons I didn't like any of the other guys with that pick. Lots of guys I'd have liked to have taken, but I felt they were more of a reach than I was comfortable with. While WR isn't necessarily a need, with Julio Jones, Mohammed Sanu, & I think they still have Hankerson... if this moves Sanu & Hankerson down the depth chart, how's that a bad thing?

Now... if Mr. McNair would have called & said, "I'd appreciate it if you would let this guy slide." I might have thought about it.

As far as Strong's replacement. I think the group pretty much agrees with you as they voted to draft Will Fuller with Houston's 2nd & there were two other WRs in the voting that got several votes as well. Maybe not for the same reasons as you... for me, it's just not trusting that Strong will take that next step & be the play maker we need.
 
thunderkyss said:
He caught my eye at the combine. I know around here, people talk about poor hands, but Mayock & the crew were talking about his natural ability to catch the ball... it's like breathing for us. Hopefully they're right, & we're too critical. If he's our pick that is.
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Did you catch the part at the combine about his dropped passes and Michael Irvin saying well TO dropped a lot of passes but he'll be in the HoF. (not an exact quote)
 
bah007 said:
You make a good point about Fuller's ability in space and how that could be translated to different routes once he is taught. But it's not subjective to question his hands. Two years in a row he has led the entire country in drops. That's a fact.

For me it comes down to this. Fuller could learn how to run routes at all three levels, but Shepard already can. He may not be quite the athlete that Fuller is but he is still a dang good athlete. And his hands are unquestionably better.

I'm fine with Fuller as the pick. I just would have preferred Shepard. But the war room has spoken.
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I took Fuller off my board due to very small 8" hands and his number of drops. I suspect Fuller will have more drops and fumbles than Jacoby Jones. However Texans have a track star.

FWIW my choices so far were Josh Doctson, if that had transpired Austin Johnson, DT PSU would've been my 2nd RD pick.
 
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I thought the Texans were on the clock until 9... oh well, couldn't get up any earlier.

For the record, my vote would have been for Nick Martin.
 
PapaL said:
Did you catch the part at the combine about his dropped passes and Michael Irvin saying well TO dropped a lot of passes but he'll be in the HoF. (not an exact quote)
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I do remember Irvin saying that, but I don't remember he said it about Fuller. He may have, I just didn't catch it.


I do remember there was another spot where they were looking over this again & Irvin got into the "natural catching ability" & how easy he made it look.
 
PapaL said:
Did you catch the part at the combine about his dropped passes and Michael Irvin saying well TO dropped a lot of passes but he'll be in the HoF. (not an exact quote)
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TO and Irvin were big muscled up overpowering WRs. Pretty much opposite of Ted Ginn III.
 
JB said:
I thought the Texans were on the clock until 9... oh well, couldn't get up any earlier.

For the record, my vote would have been for Nick Martin.
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Fuller had already sewn it up. We weren't going to get enough votes to make someone else the pick.
 
bah007 said:
This is just me personally, but I have a first ground grade on Shepard and he is the top player left on the board, and by far the top WR. I think he's in the upper tier with Doctson and Treadwell.

Sure, there are guys with Shepard's athleticism, but they can't get open like he does.

There are guys that can run routes like Shepard, but they don't catch as well as he does.

And there are guys that can catch the ball, but can't get themselves open.

Shepard is extremely well-rounded and perfectly suited for an offense that utilizes a slot receiver. He's a weapon at all three levels of the defense, which dictates coverage for the defense. Fuller is only dangerous at one level, and he can't just run in a straight line past defenders in the NFL. That will work sometimes, but Cordarrelle Patterson is pretty fast too, and poor route running and poor hands have left him with minimal ability to be an impact player on offense.
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Fair enough. I did my rankings based on fit for the Texans, and I have both Nick Martin and Austin Johnson ranked higher than either Fuller or Shepard. I'm sure I'm alone here and that's ok. The discussion is good
 
Fuller pick is fine with me. If it was the 1st round I'd be more passionate about it but in 2nd round I get it. There is potential there.

That being said, still think we should have taken Doctson in round 1 and then Austin Johnson or Chris Jones in round 2. DL is so deep this year which is why I think we should pass in the 1st. You can still get a 1st round level talent in the 2nd because there are so many of them this year.
 
WolverineFan said:
Fuller pick is fine with me. If it was the 1st round I'd be more passionate about it but in 2nd round I get it. There is potential there.

That being said, still think we should have taken Doctson in round 1 and then Austin Johnson or Chris Jones in round 2. DL is so deep this year which is why I think we should pass in the 1st. You can still get a 1st round level talent in the 2nd because there are so many of them this year.
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I was thinking about this when we selected Billings in the first. I want to go heavy on offense. But after watching Denver win the Super Bowl, would it be too far fetched to think the Texans would go all out on defense to make sure we can field that kind of defense?

DT, ILB, Safety with the first three picks?

I wouldn't do it. I still think teams need to be more balanced. Carolina's defense wasn't a joke & you've still got to score points.
 
TexansFTW said:
I don't understand this.... Falcons already gave Sanu 5 year / $32 M. That's the Roddy White replacement.

This guy would have been the perfect Jaelen Strong replacement for Texans. I know since talking of it earlier a lot of people aren't worried about Strong, but I am. I know an idiot when I see it. People weren't afraid for Martavis Bryant either until he kept on and kept on. We don't address this eventually then it's gonna always be Nuk, the next Nate Washington Journeyman, and garbage TEs until Nuk gets tired of this and leaves.
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This is where we differ, I would take 2 yrs of Bryant's type production for a 3rd rd pick. He sits out this yr and comes back and plays at a high level for a couple of more yrs and screws up again. You get high level WR1 production 4 out of five yrs for the cost of a 3rd rd pick and then you move on to the next guy.

I will take this over previous 3rd rd picks like Posey/Martin/Strong.
 
thunderkyss said:
I was thinking about this when we selected Billings in the first. I want to go heavy on offense. But after watching Denver win the Super Bowl, would it be too far fetched to think the Texans would go all out on defense to make sure we can field that kind of defense?

DT, ILB, Safety with the first three picks?

I wouldn't do it. I still think teams need to be more balanced. Carolina's defense wasn't a joke & you've still got to score points.
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I love defense. It's my first passion but after seeing our, at times, inept offense last year we need to give those guys some tools to work with as well. However, if the board ranks a defender way better than the offensive guy, I have no problem taking him and making due later. There's plenty of positions we'd all like to upgrade.
 
bah007 said:
You make a good point about Fuller's ability in space and how that could be translated to different routes once he is taught. But it's not subjective to question his hands. Two years in a row he has led the entire country in drops. That's a fact.

For me it comes down to this. Fuller could learn how to run routes at all three levels, but Shepard already can. He may not be quite the athlete that Fuller is but he is still a dang good athlete. And his hands are unquestionably better.

I'm fine with Fuller as the pick. I just would have preferred Shepard. But the war room has spoken.
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I need context to determine the significance of the number of drops. What percentage of CATCHABLE BALLS has he dropped.

I suspect he has been thrown to a lot more often than most receivers as well. That means his drop numbers would be higher, even with the same drop rate.

I also suspect I'm late to this party after a couple of hours away.
 
bah007 said:
This is just me personally, but I have a first ground grade on Shepard and he is the top player left on the board, and by far the top WR. I think he's in the upper tier with Doctson and Treadwell.

Sure, there are guys with Shepard's athleticism, but they can't get open like he does.

There are guys that can run routes like Shepard, but they don't catch as well as he does.

And there are guys that can catch the ball, but can't get themselves open.

Shepard is extremely well-rounded and perfectly suited for an offense that utilizes a slot receiver. He's a weapon at all three levels of the defense, which dictates coverage for the defense. Fuller is only dangerous at one level, and he can't just run in a straight line past defenders in the NFL. That will work sometimes, but Cordarrelle Patterson is pretty fast too, and poor route running and poor hands have left him with minimal ability to be an impact player on offense.
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This would be true if the only route Fuller could run was a fly pattern. He's actually a pretty good route runner. The drops and how he may fair against more physical NFL CB's are his only questions. IMHO
 
bah007 said:
This is just me personally, but I have a first ground grade on Shepard and he is the top player left on the board, and by far the top WR. I think he's in the upper tier with Doctson and Treadwell.

Sure, there are guys with Shepard's athleticism, but they can't get open like he does.

There are guys that can run routes like Shepard, but they don't catch as well as he does.

And there are guys that can catch the ball, but can't get themselves open.

Shepard is extremely well-rounded and perfectly suited for an offense that utilizes a slot receiver. He's a weapon at all three levels of the defense, which dictates coverage for the defense. Fuller is only dangerous at one level, and he can't just run in a straight line past defenders in the NFL. That will work sometimes, but Cordarrelle Patterson is pretty fast too, and poor route running and poor hands have left him with minimal ability to be an impact player on offense.
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This would be true if the only route Fuller could run was a fly pattern. He's actually a pretty good route runner. The drops and how he may fair against more physical NFL CB's are his only questions. IMHO
 
PapaL said:
I think a guy can improve route running. I think a guy can improve on being a WR by learning the nuances of being a Pro WR. I don't think a guy can go from terrible hands to great hands. Give me the guy that's going to catch the ball. Those guys stay in the league a long time. Fast and no hands is what the Raiders WRs were under Al Davis. I'm good on that. Alas if he's the pick so be it. We've all made a pitch for our guy.
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You just put the JUGS machine manufacturers out of business if you believe you can't change hands through hard work.
 
steelbtexan said:
This is where we differ, I would take 2 yrs of Bryant's type production for a 3rd rd pick. He sits out this yr and comes back and plays at a high level for a couple of more yrs and screws up again. You get high level WR1 production 4 out of five yrs for the cost of a 3rd rd pick and then you move on to the next guy.

I will take this over previous 3rd rd picks like Posey/Martin/Strong.
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That's fair, to each their own. I believe that You can't build a championship level team on a dice roll of having a feature player be available year in and year out.

Maybe you draft him late because you see the talent in Josh Gordon or Martavis Bryant, but you still have to address the position elsewhere and the occasional times they do hit the field you just have an extra WR1 on the field.... until they are gone again.

But regardless, I don't believe that champion level teams will ever build a team around parts that disappear every other year.
 
TexansSeminole said:

Watch how many times Fuller gets open against Mackenzie Alexander on short to intermediate routes but the freshman QB overthrows him.
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Fuller doesn't look like a guy who can only run fly routes to me. He was consistently getting open and the plays were there to be made.
 
TexansFTW said:
That's fair, to each their own. I believe that You can't build a championship level team on a dice roll of having a feature player be available year in and year out.

Maybe you draft him late because you see the talent in Josh Gordon or Martavis Bryant, but you still have to address the position elsewhere and the occasional times they do hit the field you just have an extra WR1 on the field.... until they are gone again.

But regardless, I don't believe that champion level teams will ever build a team around parts that disappear every other year.
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Well, the Steelers had the Broncos beat without a fumble by a 3rd string RB in the playoffs.
 
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