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Texans random thought of the day

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I check-in on ESPN's win rate stats every so often, to see if it matches up what we're actually seeing on the field.
  • Team Pass Rush Win Rate - 45% (13th in league)
  • Team Run Stop Win Rate - 31% (10th in league)
  • Team Pass Block Win Rate - 52% (23rd in league)
  • Team Run Block Win Rate - 72% (6th in league)
Looking at that, only Pass Block Win Rate makes some sense. For the other three, I'm like "What!? How are we that high in the rankings?" The Run Block Win Rate is the biggest head scratcher. Is our running backs simply that horrible? Or maybe it's the play design?

There's two things you can take away from this:
  1. This stat is horrible and useless.
  2. The talent on this team isn't as bad as we think.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

This same OL unit was 8th in pass block win rate last season .... there are other factors playing into the perception that they are a terrible unit.
We like to complain that they flat out whiff on a blocks an awful lot but the reality is that the OLmen do not have that many of those instances - they do occur but a large chunk are RB / TE blowing assignments or Watson extending plays.
There are those plays where the OL has been to blame .... and those tend to get most of the attention - like that play where Martin helped the LG instead of picking up the free rusher that ran right up the middle .... Those are WTF moments but in reality have been few.

Many of those RB / TE failures are scheme related .... asking a TE or RB to block edge rushers on a routine basis just isn't a good idea. They are going to get beat at a high rate.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
This same OL unit was 8th in pass block win rate last season .... there are other factors playing into the perception that they are a terrible unit.
We like to complain that they flat out whiff on a blocks an awful lot but the reality is that the OLmen do not have that many of those instances - they do occur but a large chunk are RB / TE blowing assignments or Watson extending plays.
There are those plays where the OL has been to blame .... and those tend to get most of the attention - like that play where Martin helped the LG instead of picking up the free rusher that ran right up the middle .... Those are WTF moments but in reality have been few.

Many of those RB / TE failures are scheme related .... asking a TE or RB to block edge rushers on a routine basis just isn't a good idea. They are going to get beat at a high rate.
I understand there are many other factors, other than a lineman "winning" their battle. It will greatly benefit the Texans future if most of these problems are simply coaching related and not talent related.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
All the reasoning behind those facts in your posts are ifs.

Carr wasn’t the best player in the draft. So what. Mitch Trubisky wasn’t a top 5 player in 2017. Does that mean the team has gone for the marketing angle?

No. Teams make bad decisions. Bad football decisions.

Had I seen Carr do marketing spots like Baker Mayfield & Patrick Mahomes I’d be more inclined to buy it. But I don’t even remember Carr doing HEB spots (granted I wasn’t in the Houston TV marketing region).

& yeah, McNair made him Kubiak’s Albatross. But was that for marketing purposes or because McNair wanted to see the kid succeed?

Win more games, make more money. It’s really that simple.
I'm not sure what other facts you need for critical thinking and deductive reasoning to be a factor for you, but I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. The information from reliable sources is out there for you to absorb, but you can ignore it all for your own narrative, as well.

I have no idea what other franchises think and do. I do not follow any other franchise as closely as I have the Texans for almost two decades. That's just straw man stuff that is irrelevant to the Houston Texans history.

If you like waving pom poms for this franchise without ever questioning their methods and motives, you are free to do so. It is no sweat off my back. Seriously, you do you, man.

I've still got plenty of marketing materials from 2002 to confirm the Texans were pushing David Carr as their face of the franchise before that season.

As far as Carr and Kubiak, that was another example of early ownership meddling (remember your original assertion? "There was a time when he wasn’t."). I have no idea if marketing played even a minor part in that agenda. McNair liked the kid and made it a requirement. That's never been disputed.

******edit: I typed the above as stream of thought. I mean absolutely no disrespect toward you, thunderkyss. It's all good and I hope you take the above with a grain of salt and with the intentions of having a fun conversation. I'm just an average fan like every one else. :)
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Just doesn't make sense to me, that's all. Marketing is about making money. Win more, make more.

A lot of the Texans decisions don't seem to be rooted in winning more & I can't see those same decisions being made to "make more" either.

Now, saying it wasn't a "marketing" decision does not mean it was a football decision.

I'm saying many of the decisions we criticize them for were for some other totally irrelevant reason.

Trading Hopkins was not about marketing.

Keeping Easterby anywhere in the organization is not about marketing.

Extending David Carr/Matt Schaub when everyone else knew they were done was not about marketing.

Etc, etc...

I can't think of one good marketing decision they made other than the tailgating
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Just doesn't make sense to me, that's all. Marketing is about making money. Win more, make more.

A lot of the Texans decisions don't seem to be rooted in winning more & I can't see those same decisions being made to "make more" either.

Now, saying it wasn't a "marketing" decision does not mean it was a football decision.

I'm saying many of the decisions we criticize them for were for some other totally irrelevant reason.

Trading Hopkins was not about marketing.

Keeping Easterby anywhere in the organization is not about marketing.

Extending David Carr/Matt Schaub when everyone else knew they were done was not about marketing.

Etc, etc...

I can't think of one good marketing decision they made other than the tailgating
People over simplify the role of the owner, in regards to winning a Super Bowl championship. For some reason, people believe as long as an owner "wants to", and is willing to invest the money, they WILL win a SB championship. It's simply not that easy.

Because the McNairs have yet to build a championship football team, for some reason, some fans believe they don't care for doing so. Therefore, they must have ulterior motives.

The best way to make money off an NFL team is to grow their popularity and fan base, and the way you do that is by winning.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Just doesn't make sense to me, that's all. Marketing is about making money. Win more, make more.

A lot of the Texans decisions don't seem to be rooted in winning more & I can't see those same decisions being made to "make more" either.

Now, saying it wasn't a "marketing" decision does not mean it was a football decision.

I'm saying many of the decisions we criticize them for were for some other totally irrelevant reason.

Trading Hopkins was not about marketing.

Keeping Easterby anywhere in the organization is not about marketing.

Extending David Carr/Matt Schaub when everyone else knew they were done was not about marketing.

Etc, etc...

I can't think of one good marketing decision they made other than the tailgating
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
The McNair’s were in a unique situation where the fan base didn’t care about winning the first 4 years or so. They were just happy to have football back. Even in the 2 years before they started playing, the town was all a buzz about them.

So I think winning football games was never really on the front burner in the beginning. Not saying they didn’t want to win, but maybe not the highest priority. Which is a shame because 19-10 should have showed them that winning games could have exploded this fan base in a hurry and you’d really never have to worry about the marketing part.

Now, I’m not sure that roster moves and marketing were as intertwined as some seem to think. I mean, I think they would have marketed Peppers just as much had they drafted him, but of course, we all know the marketability of the QB position. But other than that in the beginning, I don’t think marketing played much of a part in roster moves.

I think they just lost sight of the real need to win because of the success of those first few years when nobody really cared about winning, and they’ve never come back around to that.

I believe they want to win, they just don’t know how, so they do what they know best. Marketing. And of course, it doesn’t help that the NFL is it’s own money printing entity. So you can be the Browns or Bengals or Lions, or Jaguars who have to play home games in another country to get people to watch, and still make tons of money.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
Just doesn't make sense to me, that's all. Marketing is about making money. Win more, make more.

A lot of the Texans decisions don't seem to be rooted in winning more & I can't see those same decisions being made to "make more" either.

Now, saying it wasn't a "marketing" decision does not mean it was a football decision.

I'm saying many of the decisions we criticize them for were for some other totally irrelevant reason.

Trading Hopkins was not about marketing.

Keeping Easterby anywhere in the organization is not about marketing.

Extending David Carr/Matt Schaub when everyone else knew they were done was not about marketing.

Etc, etc...

I can't think of one good marketing decision they made other than the tailgating
Imo If it was only/all about marketing, Vince young would've been the number 1 overall pick instead of Mario. He was the home town hero after what he did at the national championship
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Imo If it was only/all about marketing, Vince young would've been the number 1 overall pick instead of Mario. He was the home town hero after what he did at the national championship
That’s a great example. If it’s all about marketing, VY most definitely would have been the pick.

And I think they missed in the marketing department having absolutely nothing to do with the old Oiler players, and working in that long history the fans had with those players.

So maybe they aren’t really all that good at marketing either.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Texans working out Howard Wilson, two others
He [Howard] fractured his left patellar tendon and underwent surgery as a rookie and also sustained a broken knee cap during his first two seasons in the NFL.
The above is a perfect example of Houston sports "journalism." First of all, how does one fracture a tendon. The true story is that in May of 2017 (his 2nd day of rookie minicamp), he suffered combined patellar tendon tear and fracture of his patella (knee cap). At that time, his patellar fracture was repaired, and the tendon was left to rehab without surgery. In June of 2018, he was taken back to surgery to repair the patellar tendon tear of the previous year, which had extended instead of healed. Both of these type of injuries can destroy a player's career. So far, Howard has not been able to see the field in a game in 4 seasons.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Texans working out Howard Wilson, two others


The above is a perfect example of Houston sports "journalism." First of all, how does one fracture a tendon. The true story is that in May of 2017 (his 2nd day of rookie minicamp), he suffered combined patellar tendon tear and fracture of his patella (knee cap). At that time, his patellar fracture was repaired, and the tendon was left to rehab without surgery. In June of 2018, he was taken back to surgery to repair the patellar tendon tear of the previous year, which had extended instead of healed. Both of these type of injuries can destroy a player's career. So far, Howard has not been able to see the field in a game in 4 seasons.
Sounds like an upgrade for us.
 

Earl34

All Pro
How so? Campbell, Pastorini, White Shoes, Givens, Jeffires, Moon, Brazile, none of those guys had any ties or obligations to the Titans.
Great question. Especially when Titans' fans and Nashville could care less about the Oilers.

When the Browns left Cleveland for Baltimore, the city retained the team history and rights. When the Oilers left, they took the team history and records. That was Bud Adams flipping the bird one last time to Houston for not getting a new stadium.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/houston-oilers-texans-uniforms/
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Worse franchise Rockets or Texans ?

Rockets just traded their 3rd best player for a 1st round pick then flipped that pick for a heavily protected pick that isn't likely to convey and are about to dump Harden , Westbrook & Tucker too ....
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
I’ve always hated the way Adams flung the finger in the face(s) of Houston fans.

I wouldn’t give them duckers a penny to use the Oilers for a throwback uniform.

I would use the colors on the current Texans uniforms. Steel Blue for Sky Blue (aka Columbia Blue).
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I'm not sure what other facts you need for critical thinking and deductive reasoning to be a factor for you, but I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. The information from reliable sources is out there for you to absorb, but you can ignore it all for your own narrative, as well.

I have no idea what other franchises think and do. I do not follow any other franchise as closely as I have the Texans for almost two decades. That's just straw man stuff that is irrelevant to the Houston Texans history.

If you like waving pom poms for this franchise without ever questioning their methods and motives, you are free to do so. It is no sweat off my back. Seriously, you do you, man.

I've still got plenty of marketing materials from 2002 to confirm the Texans were pushing David Carr as their face of the franchise before that season.

As far as Carr and Kubiak, that was another example of early ownership meddling (remember your original assertion? "There was a time when he wasn’t."). I have no idea if marketing played even a minor part in that agenda. McNair liked the kid and made it a requirement. That's never been disputed.

******edit: I typed the above as stream of thought. I mean absolutely no disrespect toward you, thunderkyss.of the It's all good and I hope you take the above with a grain of salt and with the intentions of having a fun conversation. I'm just an average fan like every one else. :)
I concur with DB. I too have heard from multiple sources what DB has said, McNair wanted Carr for the face of his franchise. Bob and Janice did parade him around every Gala and Ball in town. There are photos to prove it. This also created problems with the locker room. Trying to compare Carr with other players to be the face of the franchise is an apple and oranges discussion. Carr was 2 years in the waiting and the first player drafted for the franchise. No one will ever be that distinguishable. Case in point is Watson was drafted because the team was desperate for a QB, nothing more.

Also Bob wanted to win the worst way but did not know how. Sending his plane for Ed Reed without discussing it with coaches is a perfect example. In 2011 Bob said they had the money and would spend it to bring a championship to Houston. He did and put the Texans in salary cap hell for the next several years sans championship.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s not the point. I don’t begrudge Carr for anything. Not his fault the Texans drafted him #1 overall.

My point is if he was part of the Texans marketing machine there would have been more effort to get that mug out there.
Could the same thing be happening today?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
There is no conspiracy here. The front office just meddles too much. They haven’t had a legit GM in place to truly control things. Even with Smith and Kubiak. There has always been inner turmoil.
After reading CnD's post in another thread this trend will continue.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Imo If it was only/all about marketing, Vince young would've been the number 1 overall pick instead of Mario. He was the home town hero after what he did at the national championship
Great example. Mario was the least "flashy" & "markety" player you could have picked there. If you wanted to pick a player to help put butts in the seats and sell jerseys, VY or Reggie Bush are the EASY picks.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Actually reviews on Reggie were mixed. He was not a 3 down back and could not block or pick up the blitz. All proved to be true.
None of that matters if the claim is about drafting players solely on their ability to market and make money.

The reality is Mario was a solid pick coming out at a position of need. We still had Carr at that point and Kubiak was never a fan of drafting running backs high.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
None of that matters if the claim is about drafting players solely on their ability to market and make money.

The reality is Mario was a solid pick coming out at a position of need. We still had Carr at that point and Kubiak was never a fan of drafting running backs high.
I was specifically addressing decim8's comments about Reggie.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
Things changed after Casserly.
Funny nobody mentions what Charlie and Capers did with the team. No, they didn't win a ring or anything. But, they managed to get a good season in and start on a good path. Then another bad season and kicked to the curb. Making a perfect bed for Gary and Smith. Give them the team from the Gary era (and an off-season) I can see a huge difference in Ws...and maybe a run at an AFC Championship game.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I was going to post about Brown's injury, but here is an article that just came out that does a nice job of explaining his horrific experience.

***********************************************************************

After nearly losing his leg in college, Pharaoh Brown has earned a spot with Texan

Nov. 20, 2020 Updated: Nov. 20, 2020 8:12 p.m.
The truth and the incredible pain stemming from his gruesomely injured leg were dueling enemies for Pharaoh Brown.

No one, not his mother, nor his wife, nor medical personnel wanted to reveal the potentially awful news.

While playing for Oregon in a road game against Utah, Brown suffered such a serious injury to his right knee — tearing ligaments including his anterior cruciate ligament and stretching an artery in his leg, which caused internal bleeding and cut off blood flow below his shin — that doctors considered amputating his lower leg.

The injury was so gross as Brown awkwardly stepped on a teammate’s foot that cameras cut away from him and the replay wasn’t shown. It initially was thought he had only sustained ligament damage. Hours later, a Salt Lake City doctor briefed him about the severity of his artery and informed him he needed to undergo emergency surgery to save the leg.

“I didn’t find out that my leg could have been cut off right away,” Brown said Thursday. “It was a similar injury to what happened with Zach Miller from the Bears (career-ending torn artery and knee dislocation). Everyone kept it positive and we just kept working. Yes, losing my leg was a possibility. God willing, I was able to make the comeback, and everybody supported me through everything.”
THE REST OF THE STORY
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Looks like Easterby is going to have to be bringing in some WR's/DT's tomorrow. Could Carter be making a return?
 

Sonny

TexSon Proud
Worse franchise Rockets or Texans ?

Rockets just traded their 3rd best player for a 1st round pick then flipped that pick for a heavily protected pick that isn't likely to convey and are about to dump Harden , Westbrook & Tucker too ....
The Rockets have back to back Championship banners. The Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Heat, and Warriors are the only other teams to do so, so, I'd say that's rare and by definition a superior franchise.
Of course, being one of 12 teams who haven't won a Superbowl at all errs on the side of rare as well.. with zero cool.
Rare Err. HEH Could have been a Jordan joke in there somewhere.
Anyway.. carry on.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The Rockets have back to back Championship banners. The Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Heat, and Warriors are the only other teams to do so, so, I'd say that's rare and by definition a superior franchise.
Of course, being one of 12 teams who haven't won a Superbowl at all errs on the side of rare as well.. with zero cool.
Rare Err. HEH Could have been a Jordan joke in there somewhere.
Anyway.. carry on.

Yeah , they have championship banners ..... a quarter of a century ago.
 


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