"Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"

[Errant Hothy]

I understand Stevenson's grievance. He's a fringe player that has never gotten paid and is trying to work himself into the league. If he was injured in a minicamp and was not being financially taken care of, he should do what he needs to in order to be compensated. I get that. Selfishly, as a fan, I just don't want to lose a draft pick.

Since he was, and still is, on IR (and by extension the team); I'm fairly certain he was getting paid according to the terms of the contract he signed. I'm also fairly certain that the team apid for his surgery, his rehab afterwards, and the other assorted costs involved in going to LA to have the surgery.

What more should he be getting?

 

[Runner]

Given the number of injuries the Texans rack up every year, I don't think the players are all that coddled. I don't think modern players are a bunch of wimps - I think they hit each other much harder though.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Given the number of injuries the Texans rack up every year, I don't think the players are all that coddled. I don't think modern players are a bunch of wimps - I think they hit each other much harder though.

They've had alot of injuries no matter who was the coach .

This stuff and other shady dealings have gone on forever . The things below have nothing to do with the Texans but it shows the world of the NFL .

http://www.amazon.com/Youre-Its-Just-Bruise-Outrageous/dp/0312136277

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072002/met_9965297.html

KEENAN MCCARDELL, JAGUARS WIDE RECEIVER (1996-2001)- The doctor numbs him with novocain with the needle, and he just takes a scalpel and cuts into his leg, you know, and then they just start pushing the bruise's blood out. It looked like grape jelly. It's, like, "Is this really happening right here in the training room?"

http://espn.go.com/page2/tvlistings/show129transcript.html

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

“Two days ago, they bought him a one-way ticket to L.A. and didn’t give him a choice,” Ciapciak said.

Hahaha.

 

[badboy]

I understand Stevenson's grievance. He's a fringe player that has never gotten paid and is trying to work himself into the league. If he was injured in a minicamp and was not being financially taken care of, he should do what he needs to in order to be compensated. I get that. Selfishly, as a fan, I just don't want to lose a draft pick.

If I lose my 4th round pick Rashad Johnson FS, I am going to be pretty mad.

 

[Runner]

They've had alot of injuries no matter who was the coach.

Agreed. Of course Capers broke this rule too.

Im not attacking Kubiak. I consider it an organizational problem. It might be time for the team to try something different, like follow their agreements.

The team's history is mired in mediocrity at best; maybe the contact in OTAs isn't as beneficial as learning the new schemes would be? It might be worth a try, and maybe that would be the silver lining if the league comes down on them hard.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Agreed. Of course Capers broke this rule too.

Im not attacking Kubiak. I consider it an organizational problem. It might be time for the team to try something different, like follow their agreements.

The team's history is mired in mediocrity at best; maybe the contact in OTAs isn't as beneficial as learning the new schemes would be? It might be worth a try, and maybe that would be the silver lining if the league comes down on them hard.

They probably did last year so Gibbs could hit the ground running . To me when you pay players the kind of money they make ... you protect your assets .

I posted earlier that I went to two open practices last year and they really didn't hit . I think this is why they got their butts kicked by to physical teams to start the year .

At the end of the day I really believe this is Justice pouting that his buddy was fired and is going to milk this until the teet runs dry .

 

[False Start]

Adam Clanton interviewed Fred Weary, and hes not exactly thrilled about it.

Podcast Link: http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=3417264

 

[InterestedJeff]

I played ball for 10 years and when we had no contact days we dressed in shorts, shirts and a helmet. We took the field with the idea that we were gonna have a full speed practice, just no one gets tackled. The line always goes all-out or you dont get to play because the guy next to you IS going all out. All that no contact meant was that we didnt have to wear pads and the sissy runningbacks and wide recievers didnt get tackled. Going half speed is what gets people hurt. It's either go all out or dont go at all.

I'm sorry that these players got hurt but these kind of drills have been going on since little league football. Stevenson is a pathetic rat that didnt get his way. He'll have to live with selling his employer out. The Texans will survive this.

 

[Errant Hothy]

The more I read about this, the more I am convinced that Stevenson is just out for money. He does not care about the team, any of the other guys who were injured, or ever playing football in the NFL again. He wants to get paid, wether he get's paid to shut up and go away or he gets paid via a lawsuit he does not care.

This does not excuse the Texans of wrong doing though.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Adam Clanton interviewed Fred Weary, and hes not exactly thrilled about it.

Podcast Link: http://www.sportsradio610.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=3417264

Sounds like Fred wishes he wouldn't have signed this .

 

[Runner]

They probably did last year so Gibbs could hit the ground running . To me when you pay players the kind of money they make ... you protect your assets .

I posted earlier that I went to two open practices last year and they really didn't hit . I think this is why they got their butts kicked by to physical teams to start the year .

At the end of the day I really believe this is Justice pouting that his buddy was fired and is going to milk this until the teet runs dry .

Truth be told, I haven't even read the Justice article. I'm just adding my opinion on the subject matter based on what I've gathered from players over the past few years.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Truth be told, I haven't even read the Justice article. I'm just adding my opinion on the subject matter based on what I've gathered from players over the past few years.

The Justice thing started when they fired Riley . Maybe Riley took Stephenson's and Black's side against the team and like in the Godfather ... you don't go against the family .

It's been said alot in pro sports ... if you ain't cheatin , you ain't trying . That's why coaches have illegal practices and players do performance enhancing drugs ... to get the edge .

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Going half speed is what gets people hurt. It's either go all out or dont go at all.

A truer statement could not be made.

 

[Runner]

A truer statement could not be made.

I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".

Or maybe the original bromide is wrong.

 

[TimeKiller]

Since the players - and from what I know of these situation not just the ones that got injured - had the union rep complain to Kubiak at the time, I'd say they were less than willing participants. Any player could refuse to participate, of course, but they'd likely be cut later on. The problem is the teams have a lot of unchecked power.

So what exactly is the TEAM supposed to do when the players are the ones escalating the practice intensity? For all your good points, this is a question you don't answer.

Football teams are companies and players are employees. The fact that it is a dangerous profession means the employer should take more care, not less. I don't think any of us would be happy if our companies put us in dangerous or "illegal" situations where we had to comply or lose our jobs. I don't see why football should be any different. The players really are people with lives and families and concerns just like us.

Again you say the team made the situation, I suppose we'll agree to disagree. I say the players made the situation, the team didn't stop them or frankly, didn't care to because it's commonplace. I see this more as getting caught from apathy more than getting caught with wrongful intentions.

I'd be willing to bet that if this story was about the Titans rather than the "good guy" organization of the Texans it would be seen in a different light.

This is being seen in a pretty negative light. What light are you refering to?

 

[Runner]

So what exactly is the TEAM supposed to do when the players are the ones escalating the practice intensity? For all your good points, this is a question you don't answer.


Again you say the team made the situation, I suppose we'll agree to disagree. I say the players made the situation, the team didn't stop them or frankly, didn't care to because it's commonplace. I see this more as getting caught from apathy more than getting caught with wrongful intentions.

This is being seen in a pretty negative light. What light are you refering to?

I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.

The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.

And yes, we are going to end up on opposite sides of the fence on this one. Funny thing is, I'm usually a big corporate guy. I've just been seeing to much of the seamy underside lately.

 

[Texans_Chick]

I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.

The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.

And yes, we are going to end up on opposite sides of the fence on this one. Funny thing is, I'm usually a big corporate guy. I've just been seeing to much of the seamy underside lately.

I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.

It's been my experience in disputes that often BOTH sides feel like they are right based on the information and assumptions they are working from. Happens a lot. I used to do a lot of mediations, and usually when people really got all the facts out on the table, both sides ended up being surprised by misunderstandings and assumptions they were working under.

And sometimes when lawyers are involved with a situation, winning and advocacy becomes more important than coming to resolutions. finding the actual truth, or coming to an outcome that is a win-win for all involved.

If this came to the point of an ESPN story, it means that this situation turned into a lose-lose. The Texans look evil and the player looks complaining and untrustworthy.

 

[bigfan77801]

"The biggest thing for me, first and foremost, is to get made whole," Stevenson said. "At the same token, this is something that I want to protect players in the future.

My take so far.

 

[Wolf]

I put a thread on NSZ about this blog, doesn't have to do about the Texans, but the lack of coverage over the months from the Chronicle
Don't worry, he didn't mention RJ but there was some wondering about the other sports writer
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/ballz/2009/02/chronicle_drops_the_ball_on_te.php

NSZ thread(wasn't sure where to put a newspaper bashing thread)
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums//showthread.php?t=58561

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".

I think there's a huge gray area when it comes to "speeds" of practice. The reasoning I can see injuries happening while going "half speed" is strictly in the trenches. The way the OL use their muscles in the legs, back and arms, they can strain those muscles easier when going at speeds they're not used to. This mostly happening during scrimmage vs. one on one drills. The OL works so much with each other that going at a speed their not used to can throw the timing off. You can tell the Defensive Linemen to go "half speed" but what does that mean!? If they go half speed, they're never going to disrupt the play, hardly ever. That's fine for some scrimmage when QBs and WRs are working on timing but not when it's full scrimmage and the Def. is trying to learn moves, stunts, etc.

It sounds trivial but I really don't think it is. I would think most of OL's injuries would come in the arms, shoulders and backs due to this. A DE goes inside and by the RT/RG, the OG is going half speed and puts his hand on the DEs shoulder and INSTANTLY his shoulder is in an awkward position. A DE going to fast, the G isnt' ready and he tweaks the shoulder. Doesn't sit out b/c the coach will yell at him and he's playing with a slightly hurt shoulder. This is compounded since the OL get so many 'minor' injuries all the time and play/practice through it. Anyone coming off of a more sever injury and this instantly aggrivates it.

The main point is your doing something you're unfamiliar with. You can go slow and warm up but any prolonged period of going at a speed that you rarely use sets up a higher percentage of a player becoming injured.

 

[Runner]

I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.

I'm not concerned about the outcome of the Texans v Stevenson deal. This is just public corroboration of thoughts I've had for a while, so my powder went off.

 

[barrett]

I thought Kubiak's defense was that he told them to go half speed. Doesn't he know this, or was this Kubiak's way over covering his butt, knowing they'd go full speed anyway? "I told them to go half speed, but gosh darn it the kids got excited and went full speed. Not my fault".

Or maybe the original bromide is wrong.

this is one hell of a Kubiak impression! spot on!



p.s.

the quarter pounder ad is still going strong but the news hasn't resurfaced on the espn site. it also never made headlines on nfl.com

quarter pounder sure sounds good....

 

[TimeKiller]

I don't take it as a given that the players escalated the intensity. I think the coaches got exactly the intensity they wanted.

I'd almost be willing to bet money it's a little from column A, a little from column B. You can take it how you want it but Fred Weary laid it out pretty well that guys start escalating their efforts when they get into the practices.

The light I was talking about is the defense that the Texans organization couldn't possibly be wrong, but it is the fault of the sniveling, whining, pansy, fourth string player who couldn't make it through an old school high school practices. I'm exaggerating for humor.

Maybe you should look somewhere besides these boards? ESPN projected the Texans pretty negatively in the report. My defense of the Texans isn't blind loyalty though, it's more just not siding with Stevenson.

It is what it is, surely the Texans are at fault for breaking the rules but I find Stevenson's role in this troubling. He's in it for money, his 15 minutes and hoping his face on ESPN gives him a shot elsewhere...which he probably won't get. It seems like he knew he was nothing in the NFL, so he's getting his while he can no matter the sacrifice. People like that are hard to support, for me anyway.

 

[barrett]

i don't know how any of you can speculate on what his intentions were or what the teams thinking was. the only thing worth debating is what, if anything, the ramifications wil be?

the appropriate way to view this is with an eye for further information. facts, which will be debated and refuted.

the investigation that the NFL does will be much more in depth than anything the press or most certainly the opinionated, "investigative" texans-talk posters can know about. they will have access to much more information than any one else.

i'll sit and wait for a ruling.

 

[edo783]

It's interesting that when Kubes came here, there was a fair amount of conversation/print about how much less physical his practice sessions were than those run by Capers. I looked at the video and frankly I thought it was pretty mild from a contact standpoint thing. IMO, the no contact rule was meant to not have tackling going on. Pushing and shoving should be OK. I'm not sure how the heck you could practice football without at least pushing and shoving going on. I suppose you could just walk through stuff, but I don't see that accomplishing much.

 

[b0ng]

It's interesting that when Kubes came here, there was a fair amount of conversation/print about how much less physical his practice sessions were than those run by Capers. I looked at the video and frankly I thought it was pretty mild from a contact standpoint thing. IMO, the no contact rule was meant to not have tackling going on. Pushing and shoving should be OK. I'm not sure how the heck you could practice football without at least pushing and shoving going on. I suppose you could just walk through stuff, but I don't see that accomplishing much.

I think that might be the spirit of the rule with "no contact" but at the same time, when you get lawyers and the like involved, the spirit gets tossed out the window rather quickly.

That drill was pretty weak if you ask me, but at the same time, I think I saw maybe a 10 second clip on ESPN. Honestly, I think that the real variable is how hard Goodell wants to come down on the Texans. I have no clue what he's going to do and that's the scary part.

 

[Shaft75]

It is what it is, surely the Texans are at fault for breaking the rules but I find Stevenson's role in this troubling. He's in it for money, his 15 minutes and hoping his face on ESPN gives him a shot elsewhere...which he probably won't get. It seems like he knew he was nothing in the NFL, so he's getting his while he can no matter the sacrifice. People like that are hard to support, for me anyway.

I agree. Stevenson is exploiting the Texans for monetary reasons and notariety. Maybe someone oughta dig a little bit more into this guy and see what type of credibility they find. Hell, that is what all major companies do before they go to court.

 

[GP]

I think the side I'm going to take is to hold my powder until the entirety of the facts come out. There's really no sense slamming the player or the team until everything comes out.

It's been my experience in disputes that often BOTH sides feel like they are right based on the information and assumptions they are working from. Happens a lot. I used to do a lot of mediations, and usually when people really got all the facts out on the table, both sides ended up being surprised by misunderstandings and assumptions they were working under.

And sometimes when lawyers are involved with a situation, winning and advocacy becomes more important than coming to resolutions. finding the actual truth, or coming to an outcome that is a win-win for all involved.

If this came to the point of an ESPN story, it means that this situation turned into a lose-lose. The Texans look evil and the player looks complaining and untrustworthy.

BINGO.

It's a lose-lose.

Teams need to abide by the rules. Had the rule been abided by, this would not even be an issue or a story or a 4th-round pick if the league decides to punish the Texans severely for it.

If it was a "weak ass drill" and "nothing to be concerned about," then why even do it all? If something is THAT far from being realistic speed-wise, then you're only running a risk of punishment instead of reaping the rewards of the drill. This is mind bottling.

 

[Norg]

well the players went throw the mini drills knowing thy didnt have 2 it was in there contract

but if a coach tells u 2 do something how can u say no when your career is on the line he had not made the team yet


and how would that come across if the coaches needed to take a look at your skill sets

its like a double edge sword IMO

sadly i work a physical job and if i got hurt there is really not much i can do .... at least they get to sue there job LOL

 

[Vinny]

It's interesting that when Kubes came here, there was a fair amount of conversation/print about how much less physical his practice sessions were than those run by Capers. I looked at the video and frankly I thought it was pretty mild from a contact standpoint thing. IMO, the no contact rule was meant to not have tackling going on. Pushing and shoving should be OK. I'm not sure how the heck you could practice football without at least pushing and shoving going on. I suppose you could just walk through stuff, but I don't see that accomplishing much.

I've heard guys were getting pancaked in some of the drills and if you are a 300 pounder that isn't something to take lightly at any time. The team broke the rules (the rules that are set in place to protect the players) and 3 guys had season ending injuries in those drills....I bet the team doesn't get off lightly.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

if we lose anything more than a 5th Round draft pick, i may just lose it.

one thing this does is show just how stubborn Gibbs is. dude needs to realize that he doesnt make the rules and that sometimes you have to do stuff you dont want to do. his 'us against the world' style of coaching is great when it just an act, but when the world is against you, you may have to grow up and accept things the way they are.

its obvious Gibbs doesnt like the rules and he just needs to realize that it doesnt matter what he thinks. keeping his men and himself away from the media is one thing, but being outright indignant towards the way things are supposed to be done is irresponsible and could hurt our team now.

hopefully it will be just $$ and maybe a game suspension for the coaching staff involved. we cant afford to waste early draft picks because our leadership thought they were above the law.

 

[Vinny]

if we lose anything more than a 5th Round draft pick, i may just lose it.

one thing this does is show just how stubborn Gibbs is. dude needs to realize that he doesnt make the rules and that sometimes you have to do stuff you dont want to do. his 'us against the world' style of coaching is great when it just an act, but when the world is against you, you may have to grow up and accept things the way they are.

its obvious Gibbs doesnt like the rules and he just needs to realize that it doesnt matter what he thinks. keeping his men and himself away from the media is one thing, but being outright indignant towards the way things are supposed to be done is irresponsible and could hurt our team now.

hopefully it will be just $$ and maybe a game suspension for the coaching staff involved. we cant afford to waste early draft picks because our leadership thought they were above the law.

I see two things...how stubborn Gibbs is and how Kubiak doesn't make great decisions at times. These are ongoing themes.

 

[Runner]

Going half speed is what gets people hurt. It's either go all out or dont go at all.

A truer statement could not be made.

I'm at a real keyboard for a change and Peek isn't here anymore, so I'll address this with a specific example. There are many times less than full speed workouts are very beneficial - the half speed workouts help player development.

Antwaan Peek always looked good during the pre-season, but somehow his regular season never panned out. He would look very, very fast in camp, blowing by linemen at will. He was always on the news highlights for the day. Very impressive - but then it never seemed to carry over into the regular season.

I asked about this one time, saying Peek really looked good and this would be his breakout year. I was told that appearances are deceiving after having to put up with a rolling of the eyes. Apparently in the drills that were making the highlights, the o-linemen were going half-speed, working on technique. First Step-Balance-Hands First Step-Balance-Hands stuff. Peek was going full speed on his speed rush - the only move he ever had - and looking very good against guys that weren't particularly trying to block him. In the end, the o-linemen were getting better, and Peek was remaining a one trick pony. If Peek had also gone at half speed and tried to learn something else he may have improved too. Maybe he should have tried to learn how to get under a lineman's pads and develop a bull rush; anything to give him more weapons. As it was, I was told Peek would have been easy to block during drills had the lineman cared to - they didn't have to read and react to him (which is a d-lineman's major advantage). They could have just blocked the speed rush every time. Pretty simple.

Trying to point out that Peek wasn't as good as he was showing and the o-line wasn't as bad as they looked didn't get much support either, because people "know what they saw". Sometimes there is a lot more to knowing than seeing.

 

[Runner]

I see two things...how stubborn Gibbs is and how Kubiak doesn't make great decisions at times. These are ongoing themes.

I think it is part of the corporate culture. The coaches want to show what tough guys they are, they think it makes the players tough guys, and to hell with the rule.

Given the Texans record over the years, maybe it is time to lose the one-on-one no pads contact drills and use that time to teach techniques and team play. You know - use that time to "gel" rather than lose a few games during the start of the season as the players learn to play together.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'd almost be willing to bet money it's a little from column A, a little from column B. You can take it how you want it but Fred Weary laid it out pretty well that guys start escalating their efforts when they get into the practices.

Maybe you should look somewhere besides these boards? ESPN projected the Texans pretty negatively in the report. My defense of the Texans isn't blind loyalty though, it's more just not siding with Stevenson.

It is what it is, surely the Texans are at fault for breaking the rules but I find Stevenson's role in this troubling. He's in it for money, his 15 minutes and hoping his face on ESPN gives him a shot elsewhere...which he probably won't get. It seems like he knew he was nothing in the NFL, so he's getting his while he can no matter the sacrifice. People like that are hard to support, for me anyway.

Spot On

Stevenson knew he wasn't going to make the Texans roster or any other NFL teams roster. The reason the Texans put him on IR was because they couldn't come to an injury settlement with him. Stevenson is looking to make the most money he can being a marginal player. ESPN paid for this story & he thinks he can make more money with a lawsuit tha an injury settlement.

Every ex-NFL player I've heard talk about this says the Texans practices in OTA's are in line with the other 31 NFL teams. I think it's interesting that the NFLPA decided not to represent Stevenson in this case.

Being a Texan fan I would gladly give up a 4th rd. draft choice every year if we see as much improvement in the OL every year as we've seen this year.

 

[Dan B.]

I'm betting even if he fully recovers Stevenson is going to have a very tough time getting another job. No team is going to take someone on who sued their former team and ran to ESPN to humiliate them publicly, especially if this practice is as common as alleged. It's not like he's an all star after all.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

If its any consolation the latest piece at the chronicle states that the investigation may take months.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6251101.html

If we are going to lose a 4 my guess would be it wouldn't come from this years draft. It will still suck but I feel like this is such a pivotal off-season for the team that we need everything we can get to get over that hump. If we wind up winning 10 games this year I think the blow of losing a 4 in the following draft would be softened just a bit. Still going to suck but at least its not a 1 like NE had to part with. If we wind up posting another 8-8 or worse and lose that pick I will be more disappointed because it would mean that our needs are still not being adequately filled.

 

[Wolf]

At least Texans coach Gary Kubiak had the good sense to call off the illegal drills after a third player suffered a season-ending injury.

You never know what these coaches are thinking. Kubiak might have let eight or nine guys get carted off before it occurred to him that maybe this wasn't his best idea.

Just think how bad the Texans would have been last season if they hadn't cheated. There's your silver lining.

Every once in a while, something happens that peels back the shroud of secrecy on the dark side of the NFL.

That's the side that deals with injury grievances and teams forcing players back onto the field just so they can cut them.

That's what ESPN has done with an Outside The Lines report on the Texans. It's a story that might not have seen the light of day if a player named Dan Stevenson hadn't taken a video device into a meeting room and recorded the illegal practices.

The Texans originally denied his filing, saying, in part, no such drills took place. Then he produced the video.

The video shows players doing full-speed blocking drills without pads. First, the drills are illegal. Second, they're dumb.

There's a reason the NFL's labor agreement allows contact drills only at certain times of the season.

Otherwise, coaches would have players banging on each other 10 months a year. Maybe Kubiak and Alex Gibbs thought they'd toughen up the boys in preparation for camp.

There's also a reason players wear something called "pads." They provide protection.

"Wearing pads puts it out in the open that you're running illegal practices," one player said. "If you're not wearing pads, you can say, ?Well, it got out of hand.'?"

Offseason minicamps and practices are supposed to be more mental work than physical. Six weeks of training camp is plenty of time for blocking and tackling, so why do it in May?

"Because coaches think the Patriots are doing it, and if the Patriots are doing it, then the Giants probably are doing it," the player said. "If the Giants are doing it, then you know the Colts and Titans are doing it. Word gets around, players are afraid to speak up, and coaches start thinking they have to do it."

Had the Texans done it before 2008?

Did they force Fred Weary back on the field before he was healthy so they could cut him and save his salary?

I know it can happen when a team is making a push for the playoffs and the guy at 80% is better than the 2nd teamer at 100% , but my initial reaction, was this is about the dumbest thing you could put as speculation.why the hell would a team purposely put a player in that is injured only to be injured again so you can save his salary?
I almost want to quote him on his blog and blast away. really? Fred Weary? on a zone blocking scheme where movement is critical to an OL?


I should consider the source on that.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...weighs-any-reward-?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5

 

[GP]

If its any consolation the latest piece at the chronicle states that the investigation may take months.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6251101.html

If we are going to lose a 4 my guess would be it wouldn't come from this years draft. It will still suck but I feel like this is such a pivotal off-season for the team that we need everything we can get to get over that hump. If we wind up winning 10 games this year I think the blow of losing a 4 in the following draft would be softened just a bit. Still going to suck but at least its not a 1 like NE had to part with. If we wind up posting another 8-8 or worse and lose that pick I will be more disappointed because it would mean that our needs are still not being adequately filled.

To me, losing ANY draft picks is unacceptable. We're not NE...we can't afford to lose any draft picks at all.

Coming off of two straight years with no Round 2 pick is like eating real food again after going two years on army rations. Losing a 4th, at this point, would be horrible.

For the powers-that-be to have decided to go against clear-cut league rules, having CONTACT when there should be none..well, that was THE definition of stupidity. There's really no other description for it.

 

[GP]

It's on Outside The Lines right now...I am going to transcribe what I can:

Stevenson says Rick Smith yelled at him, told him he had no integrity: "I felt like he really attacked my character."

(I'll post in spurts, then piece it all together in one single post when it's finished.)

 

[GP]

Stevenson: "There's a reason, you know, that drills like these are prohibited in the off-season. Football is dangerous enough as it is, there's high risk of injury. And when you're not wearing the proper pads, you're not protected."

Narrator: During a minicamp practice that the public never saw, offensive lineman Dan Stevenson, trying to make his third team in three years, suffered a shoulder injury that he says might have ended his NFL career. Stevenson filed a grievance against the Texans, saying he was hurt during "Prohibited full contact drills during an offseason minicamp with reckless disregard for the players' health." The NFL management counsel rejected his grievance, citing, among other factors, that the "Texans deny players were required to participate in drills which are explicitly prohibited."

Narrator to Stevenson, as they watch the video clips of the drills: Why did you think to tape this?

Stevenson: I just wanted to see it. I kinda' wanted to see for myself.

Narrator: Why did you tape it?

Stevenson: I think that they can obviously no longer deny that this drill ever happened.

Narrator as the clip turns from showing the drills, to then showing Stevenson's video footage of a Texans computer in Texans offices: What does this tell us?

Stevenson: This is how they break down film.

Narrator: Stevenson took a video camera into the Texans meeting room, and recorded the team's video of the practice off a computer terminal.

 

[GP]

Narrator to Stevenson: It seems like you had more in mind than just to shoot the drill, that you knew you had to establish when it was, as much information as you could get.

Stevenson: Without a doubt.

Narrator, as TV shows the Texans' computer monitor playing the archived drill: This is May 9th, 2008...The Texans were prohibited from holding contact drills.

Narrator to Stevenson: What are we seeing here?

Stevenson: Right here you see that it's obviously a one-on-one pass rush drill at the minicamp.

Narrator to TV audience (as the NFL document is shown on screen): Article 36, section 4 of the CBA reads "There will be no contact work (e.g. "live" blocking,...)" According to Stevenson, and several other eye witnesses, Kris Brown, the team's union representative, and Mark Breuner, a member of the union's executive committee, confronted head coach Gary Kubiak and told him that the drill was prohibited. Both Breuner and Brown declined to speak to Outside The Lines. (holy crap balls!)

 

[GP]

Stevenson to Narrator: So, uh, the players weren't happy. The player reps went to the coaches and said, you know, one-on-one, it's strictly prohibited. We can show you in the CBA where it says, you know, any type of live blocking drill, i.e. one-on-one pass rush is strictly prohibited. When they came back to us, the coaching staff pretty much said they were going to do what they wanted to do and run practices as they see fit.

Narrator to Stevenson: What kind of pads are you guys wearing?

Stevenson: Just helmets.

Narrator to Stevenson: During that first day, how intense did it get?

Stevenson: Ummm...it got very intense. Players were, like I said, trying to make the team, you know, and people were getting put on their backs. People were getting knocked over. Guys are getting pancaked. It's all out.

Jordan Black to the camera: Oh, it's full speed. I mean, you're there doing the drills, trying to make an impression on the coach.

Narrator to TV audience (as clip is shown): Lineman Jordan Black actually ripped a teammate's helmet off (vs. #96, Cochran I think).

Black: Pride is a big thing. Nobody wants to, uh, get beat by another player. You just always want to win out there.

Stevenson: It's what you need to do to survive. There's no gettin' around it. If the coach asks you to do something, umm, what are you going to do but go and try to show that you're good enough to make the 53-man roster?

 

[infantrycak]

Bruener is retired now. The fact that he wouldn't speak to them tells you his position even if this was technically against the rules. My bet is Brown and Bruener went to Kubiak even though they didn't want to because Stevenson or someone else complained. Here is where facts get lost in translation. Those two are gamers and may very well have gone to Kubiak with a "hey coach we got this complaint so we are doing our job and passing it along but keep it up, we like where the team is going."

I can't believe the people I see railing against the Texans in this thread. This goes on at every NFL team. The Texans were unlucky enough to have some fringe player narc on them to help his own civil lawsuit.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Narrator: During a minicamp practice that the public never saw, offensive lineman Dan Stevenson, trying to make his third team in three years, suffered a shoulder injury that he says might have ended his NFL career. Stevenson filed a grievance against the Texans, saying he was hurt during "Prohibited full contact drills during an offseason minicamp with reckless disregard for the players' health." The NFL management counsel rejected his grievance, citing, among other factors, that the "Texans deny players were required to participate in drills which are explicitly prohibited."

I thought these were all open practices, am I missing something?

Just got done watching the piece, I think the part of this whole thing that bugs me is how we come across as cheap and sneaky in regard to compensating the players that were injured. The drills are not as big a deal. I do wish they could have found someone to give the Texan's side of the story but I can see how it must have been impossible to get anyone from the organization to speak about this matter. Ross Tucker, a former NFL O-linemen, came on and played that role ineffectively. No mention of Fred Weary being upset at how his affidavit was being used in this story or how he mentions he thought the drills were in mini camp and not OTAs.

 

[GP]

Narrator to TV audience: The next day at practice, coaches ran the same drill at the same speed. Stevenson's first drill was his last. (clip is shown of Stevenson blocking #67)

Stevenson to narrator, as they watch the clip: I'm blocking him, blocking him, and bam! my arm goes.

Narrator to Stevenson: It's why you pulled back like that? (He says "Yes") Did you know right away? (He answers "Instantly")

Narrator to TV audience: Jordan Black was one of two other players who suffered season-ending injuries that day.

Black: I was going to punch the defensive end, he was trying to get around the outside of me, and he went to slap my arm off--so he could get that corner--as soon as he slapped my arm it just rotated, twisted, and my arm came out of its socket.

Narrator to TV audience (showing Jordan Black's "Notice of Termination" papers sent to him on June 9, 2008): A month after the incident, the Texans terminated Black. He says the team argued that he had NOT suffered an injury during the workout, and he was forced to pay for his own surgery. In September (showing the actual letter from Texans to Black) the Texans agreed to reimburse his medical bills. But even as they did, they noted that the payment "...does not constitute evidence nor any admission of the club's liability..."

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Bruener is retired now. The fact that he wouldn't speak to them tells you his position even if this was technically against the rules. My bet is Brown and Bruener went to Kubiak even though they didn't want to because Stevenson or someone else complained. Here is where facts get lost in translation. Those two are gamers and may very well have gone to Kubiak with a "hey coach we got this complaint so we are doing our job and passing it along but keep it up, we like where the team is going."

I can't believe the people I see railing against the Texans in this thread. This goes on at every NFL team. The Texans were unlucky enough to have some fringe player narc on them to help his own civil lawsuit.

The funny thing is both guys were from Notre Dame . I wonder how well they knew each other .... hmmmm .

 

[GP]

Bruener is retired now. The fact that he wouldn't speak to them tells you his position even if this was technically against the rules. My bet is Brown and Bruener went to Kubiak even though they didn't want to because Stevenson or someone else complained. Here is where facts get lost in translation. Those two are gamers and may very well have gone to Kubiak with a "hey coach we got this complaint so we are doing our job and passing it along but keep it up, we like where the team is going."

I can't believe the people I see railing against the Texans in this thread. This goes on at every NFL team. The Texans were unlucky enough to have some fringe player narc on them to help his own civil lawsuit.

Well, I guess that's YOUR opinion. I find it curious that you are essentially speculating when you theorize how it was that Kris Brown and Breuner went to Kubiak. You always rail on those who speculate, and here you are doing that very thing.

It's obvious you think those guys are extorting the Texans, pissed off about not making the team, looking for a payday, etc.

I think they did an admirable thing. They said "Here's the rules, you're not supposed to be doing that." If anything, this is going to stop this nonsense and it's going to save future players' chances of making a team.

Anybody who goes this far to support "the team" at the expense of individuals who make up "the team" is puzzling. If it was a number 1 draft pick who had this happened to him, a pro-bowl guy, we'd all be sending letters and emails to the Texans in disgust of what happened.

The Texans come across exactly how they should: They broke the rules, guys got hurt during drills that should not have happened. The responsibility is upon the coaching and management staff. Period. This is not how a man with integrity should lead those whom he in-turn asks to live a life of integrity. This is inexcusable. Our team SHOULD be punished. Any teams doing this should be punished. Period.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Well, I guess that's YOUR opinion. I find it curious that you are essentially speculating when you theorize how it was that Kris Brown and Breuner went to Kubiak. You always rail on those who speculate, and here you are doing that very thing.

It's obvious you think those guys are extorting the Texans, pissed off about not making the team, looking for a payday, etc.

I think they did an admirable thing. They said "Here's the rules, you're not supposed to be doing that." If anything, this is going to stop this nonsense and it's going to save future players' chances of making a team.

Anybody who goes this far to support "the team" at the expense of individuals who make up "the team" is puzzling. If it was a number 1 draft pick who had this happened to him, a pro-bowl guy, we'd all be sending letters and emails to the Texans in disgust of what happened.

The Texans come across exactly how they should: They broke the rules, guys got hurt during drills that should not have happened. The responsibility is upon the coaching and management staff. Period. This is not how a man with integrity should lead those whom he in-turn asks to live a life of integrity. This is inexcusable. Our team SHOULD be punished. Any teams doing this should be punished. Period.

This is the same thing as colleges cheating in recruiting . It's a mindset that if you aren't cheating you ain't trying or nice guys finish last . You guys who are so appalled I guess never paracticed in the gymm in July in highschool .

The point is the NFL or NCAA will not come down on any off it because it weakens the product . Like Cak said ... the Texans had a couple of guys who told ... even taped it . It's fuuny that nobody else has come forward and Weary says Stephenson duped him .