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O'Brien has also been shut out twice in the playoffs. I don't count that meaningless td at the end.

The problems with his offense are just magnified in the postseason when gameplanning against a specific team becomes more important.
 
Speedy said:
...
And never mind the eyeball test. If you can't see the difference there, then the question of are you watching is a valid one.
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Not a sexy factor but a big one is Kubiak's offenses could grind out D & clock breaking 11 & 12 min drives. Couple of those will have a D gasping, make comebacks harder and...naturally result in lower scoring games. It's not that they couldn't score faster, they didn't want to. But that's a contrast too, when the pace needed to pixk up it could and still to a desired result. A 4 min drive meant score after 3:45 were gone, not score at any point within the next 4 min and hand over 3:45. The score on TD stats looks the same but they're miles apart on the field.
 
infantrycak said:
Not a sexy factor but a big one is Kubiak's offenses could grind out D & clock breaking 11 & 12 min drives. Couple of those will have a D gasping, make comebacks harder and...naturally result in lower scoring games. It's not that they couldn't score faster, they didn't want to. But that's a contrast too, when the pace needed to pixk up it could and still to a desired result. A 4 min drive meant score after 3:45 were gone, not score at any point within the next 4 min and hand over 3:45. The score on TD stats looks the same but they're miles apart on the field.
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Yes they are,

One is being aggressive, the other is sitting on a lead. Under Kubiak how many times did they have a drive stall out while they were trying to milk the clock and give the other team a chance to get back into the game. I know how you love to romanticize about the failed Kubiak yrs but they weren't that good.
 
TheKDog said:
O'Brien has also been shut out twice in the playoffs. I don't count that meaningless td at the end.

The problems with his offense are just magnified in the postseason when gameplanning against a specific team becomes more important.
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This is what happens when you have Hoyer at QB

Plus have a crappy OL this last yr, along with no WR2 and a banged up Miller. Add that to your QB having a bad game in his 1st playoff game and you get what we saw out there at NRG last yr.
 
infantrycak said:
Aggresion is not a universal positive.

Tons of aggressive military commanders have walked their units into an ambush.

It's smart aggression that's an attribute. Scoring too fast in that scenario is flat out dumb.
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How did I know that you would be the take no chances and lets play the odds kind of guy. You can win games but not championships with this philosophy, unless you have an all time great defense with an all time great DC.

You score when you can. While you're trying to sit on a lead bad things happen that kill drives, such as turnovers/penalties etc.. BTW, Football isn't war, people dont lose their lives in football games
 
steelbtexan said:
Yes they are,

One is being aggressive, the other is sitting on a lead. Under Kubiak how many times did they have a drive stall out while they were trying to milk the clock and give the other team a chance to get back into the game. I know how you love to romanticize about the failed Kubiak yrs but they weren't that good.
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Lol, I must be getting soft but I agree totally with this post. I don’t know how many times I heard Kubiak say that he wants to have the ball in his hands for the last possession. Really? Why not just beat the crap out of them and forget that last possession? I also remember, sickly, how he would sit on any lead. Two things always happened, they lost momentum and screwed up the rhythm of the offense which was vital to Schaub’s game. That momentum thing just drove me nuts. That’s why he was a subpar HC at Houston and anyone wanting that cut block finesse thing should only see it proved to be a huge failure. And just ask Cushing if the opposing OL’s never took payback shots. He stuck his D out on a limb. Eight year setback plus two with RS with that often embarrassing mess.
 
Dejaview said:
Why not just beat the crap out of them and forget that last possession? I also remember, sickly, how he would sit on any lead. Two things always happened, they lost momentum and screwed up the rhythm of the offense which was vital to Schaub’s game.
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On the one hand we have "BO'b can do no wrong fans" saying he did the best he could with what he had

On the other hand "BO'b can do no wrong fans" are saying Kubiak had a worse team but should have done more.
 
Dejaview said:
Why not just beat the crap out of them and forget that last possession? I also remember, sickly, how he would sit on any lead. Two things always happened, they lost momentum and screwed up the rhythm of the offense which was vital to Schaub’s game. That momentum thing just drove me nuts.
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How'd that "beat the crap out of them," keep the rhythm going aggression work out for the Oilers? That's right, two of the largest leads lost to lose in NFL history.
 
In the pros, you play to the strength of your team. So we grind and spit and go for big plays and come back late as needed opening it up, playing to the defense. I am the BOB is middle of the road, could be worse, could be better. Our D won't hold teams this year, so the offense better be a bit more aggressive or I join the whip em all train. It is a team game, so this comparison of stats across eras and such makes me giggle. The eye test, Kubes had a better offense, leadership, BOB has it, Gary let things go too much. Both middle of the road coaches. WOuld prefer a dinner with Kubes though
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Our D won't hold teams this year, so the offense better be a bit more aggressive or I join the whip em all train.
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I don't like shoot outs. & it looks like we have the makings of a big play offense, which will be a welcome change. So hopefully I'll change my ways.
 
infantrycak said:
How'd that "beat the crap out of them," keep the rhythm going aggression work out for the Oilers? That's right, two of the largest leads lost to lose in NFL history.
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Bad example: That was terrible coaching in Buffalo.


If I'm going down I'm going down swinging like Belichick does or for that matter Lil Shanny.
 
Dejaview said:
BTW, thanks for arguing my point. They allowed the momentum to shift. Shoulda kept going. Pats do. Are they successful?
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The Pats barely play the same between or even within a series. They're always trying to have successful drives but how they do so flips a lot. They're the anti-rhythm offense.

But I do think coaches should always try for successful drives. And Kubiak was IMO. We had one of the best rushing games. A 12 min scoring drive in the 4th is a dagger thru the heart.

Funny especially for OB defender steelb, folks say OB wants a rushing team. I'm not sure that's true. I think he's rushed a lot because he's a very conservative play caller with no confidence his QBs know "the system." But assuming he wants a rushing team, why has he done so little to have a good one?
 
infantrycak said:
Funny especially for OB defender steelb, folks say OB wants a rushing team. I'm not sure that's true. I think he's rushed a lot because he's a very conservative play caller with no confidence his QBs know "the system." But assuming he wants a rushing team, why has he done so little to have a good one?
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I don't think very much of the man (just in case you didn't know) but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. This will be Watson's 2nd offseason as BO'bs starting QB. A first for BO'b (self inflicted, but still).

Hopefully he'll show some confidence in his QB this year.
 
Mr teX said:
such as?
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Such as the entire way he changed the offense to cater to Watson’s skill set in 2018 to what we saw in 2019.

That’s a broad example, maybe somewhat defensible due to Watson coming off injury. I don’t have the ability to locate more specific examples but they’re there. It’s something that bothered me last season. and I have defended BoB a lot on this and the other (defunct) Texans fan message boards. That and these damned slow starts.
 
infantrycak said:
The Pats barely play the same between or even within a series. They're always trying to have successful drives but how they do so flips a lot. They're the anti-rhythm offense.

But I do think coaches should always try for successful drives. And Kubiak was IMO. We had one of the best rushing games. A 12 min scoring drive in the 4th is a dagger thru the heart.

Funny especially for OB defender steelb, folks say OB wants a rushing team. I'm not sure that's true. I think he's rushed a lot because he's a very conservative play caller with no confidence his QBs know "the system." But assuming he wants a rushing team, why has he done so little to have a good one?
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I've never defended BOB's offense. Kubiak/BOB are 2 peas in a pod. Very avg and certainly very conservative. Potatoe/Potato.
 
Dejaview said:
Lol, I must be getting soft but I agree totally with this post. I don’t know how many times I heard Kubiak say that he wants to have the ball in his hands for the last possession. Really? Why not just beat the crap out of them and forget that last possession? I also remember, sickly, how he would sit on any lead. Two things always happened, they lost momentum and screwed up the rhythm of the offense which was vital to Schaub’s game. That momentum thing just drove me nuts. That’s why he was a subpar HC at Houston and anyone wanting that cut block finesse thing should only see it proved to be a huge failure. And just ask Cushing if the opposing OL’s never took payback shots. He stuck his D out on a limb. Eight year setback plus two with RS with that often embarrassing mess.
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I might have to take you off of ignore.

LOL
 
infantrycak said:
Then your double standard for calling people out is huge.
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I've called out BOB.

Remember when he turtled up against Denver, I called him out.

Same in the 1st game at Foxboro in Watson's rookie yr. Seattle, yep.

I just think both BOB/Kubiak are/were. too conservative. How you can defend one and not the other baffles me.
 
steelbtexan said:
I've called out BOB.

Remember when he turtled up against Denver, I called him out.

Same in the 1st game at Foxboro in Watson's rookie yr. Seattle, yep.

I just think both BOB/Kubiak are/were. too conservative. How you can defend one and not the other baffles me.
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And I disliked with things Kubiak did at times. But because I disliked him less than you I was a "defender." Forever to be called defender whenever the name is mentioned. Yet by your standard, you are an OB defender. If you're going to use it, own it. Or maybe just leave it out entirely.
 
infantrycak said:
And I disliked with things Kubiak did at times. But because I disliked him less than you I was a "defender." Forever to be called defender whenever the name is mentioned. Yet by your standard, you are an OB defender. If you're going to use it, own it. Or maybe just leave it out entirely.
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BS
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Another highjacked Kubiak vs O'Brien thread. Like I suggested in another similarly highjacked thread..................take these old, tired, repetitive, non-productive arguments to the "Fire O'Brien" or other more appropriate threads and fell free to knock your brains out!
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This happens on every sports forum across the globe. So complaining about it won't change it all Doc. Just go with the flow
 
Texansballer74 said:
This happens on every sports forum across the globe. So complaining about it won't change it all Doc. Just go with the flow
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I'm sorry, no it's not when it gets this ridiculous and members and/or mods take the time to call it out for what it is........and the rest of the members have enough respect to understand and adhere to the expected structure of the Board. We've lost good members for just this reason...........thinking they were tuning into rerun episodes of "Members Gone Wild."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm sorry, no it's not when it gets this ridiculous and members and/or mods take the time to call it out for what it is........and the rest of the members have enough respect to understand and adhere to the expected structure of the Board. We've lost good members for just this reason...........thinking they were tuning into rerun episodes of "Members Gone Wild."
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Understandable indeed. Personally I don't get worked up about this because it's the norm. I've been on a lot of forums since 2006. Started off with the Houston Chronicle and lol every blog would get derailed at some point. Members would argue about everything. The Chronicle would put people in timeouts as well as ban members. But that didn't stop anything because jokers would create a different account.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm sorry, no it's not when it gets this ridiculous and members and/or mods take the time to call it out for what it is........and the rest of the members have enough respect to understand and adhere to the expected structure of the Board. We've lost good members for just this reason...........thinking they were tuning into rerun episodes of "Members Gone Wild."
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It might be different if there was some new thoughts being exchanged instead of the same old back and forth repeated ad nauseum
 
Whatever. Just like with presidents, there is a natural topic flow to comparison with the immediate predecessor anytime coaching comes up. It's easy to scroll by.

And if CnD is so concerned maybe he can get on the phone with Johnny Appleseed who brings up the same sh!t and the past administration in every thread.
 
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Maybe I’m wrong but I view these threads as conversations with the topic being the starting discussion point. Any free flowing conversation is naturally going to veer away from the starting point and as long as it doesn’t get to crazy, like all of a suddenly talking politics or something, and doesn’t get personal then whatever on my mind.

We could strictly hold to “you must stay completely on topic at all times” but it would have to be so heavily enforced that it wouldn’t be fun for the mods or the members.

Hell by that line of thinking even posting about how a thread has gotten off topic could be considered going off topic.
 
maverick512000 said:
We could strictly hold to “you must stay completely on topic at all times” but it would have to be so heavily enforced that it wouldn’t be fun for the mods or the members.
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Exactly. And lets remember this is a voluntary mod staff. Plus for every one anal member offended by the chaos run off by slight thread branching there would be three run off by cuffing everyone around like errant sheep. We try to have a happy medium.
 
Texansballer74 said:
And we stay off track because we have to take our shots at others. Bwhahaha

Steel hopefully he is used properly. Heck he could've been good last season.
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Rookie TE's are rarely big contributors. This is why I only expect 20-25 catches from Warring this yr. Yr 2 is the yr most TE's really make a jump and I expect this from Thomas.

It will help if the TE's dont have to spend so much time helping out in pass pro.
 
steelbtexan said:
Rookie TE's are rarely big contributors. This is why I only expect 20-25 catches from Warring this yr. Yr 2 is the yr most TE's really make a jump and I expect this from Thomas.

It will help if the TE's dont have to spend so much time helping out in pass pro.
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To an extent I get it last year especially in the later half when the weak Oline got weaker with injuries. Still if a few times at least the TEs had stopped blocking and it had been a short pass to them I think other defenses wouldn’t have been able to just write them off as a receiver threat.

Could be that was on Watson wanting to make the big plays but even in that case BoB wouldn’t be blameless as it’s a coach’s job to reign in the hotshot rookie QB till they learn when to go for 25+ and when to be happy with 5.

I’m liking what I’m seeing from Warring, even without needing another TE taken at 3rd he could be the kind of player you just want on your team even if you didn’t have a need when you drafted him.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm sorry, no it's not when it gets this ridiculous and members and/or mods take the time to call it out for what it is........and the rest of the members have enough respect to understand and adhere to the expected structure of the Board. We've lost good members for just this reason...........thinking they were tuning into rerun episodes of "Members Gone Wild."
Click to expand...
This is the main reason I hardly ever discuss things on here anymore and just lurk. Turns into “I’m smarter than you and this is why”. Or the high jacking of conversation for something irrelevant or can be located in 20 + other threads specifically designated for that specific topic.
 
maverick512000 said:
To an extent I get it last year especially in the later half when the weak Oline got weaker with injuries. Still if a few times at least the TEs had stopped blocking and it had been a short pass to them I think other defenses wouldn’t have been able to just write them off as a receiver threat.

Could be that was on Watson wanting to make the big plays but even in that case BoB wouldn’t be blameless as it’s a coach’s job to reign in the hotshot rookie QB till they learn when to go for 25+ and when to be happy with 5.

I’m liking what I’m seeing from Warring, even without needing another TE taken at 3rd he could be the kind of player you just want on your team even if you didn’t have a need when you drafted him.
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They did use Griffin as an outlet.

Warring has a chance to be special in a couple of yrs. I expect him to spend alot of time blocking next yr, with Thomas doing most of the receiving. The TE position is going to be really good in a couple of yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Jordan Thomas is going to be really good next yr.

Gaine drafted a steal.
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But after drafting Thomas and a second TE last year I would have thought this years 3rd round pick could have been used on one of several other more needy positions
including WR, RB, LB, & Dline ?
 
IDEXAN said:
But after drafting Thomas and a second TE last year I would have thought this years 3rd round pick could have been used on one of several other more needy positions
including WR, RB, LB, & Dline ?
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I don’t disagree but something about Warring is making me think he might have been one of the biggest steals in a long time. I can’t explain what nor can I honestly say I have a great track record, or any track record really, on predicting draftees but I’m getting almost Gronk vibes from him. I don’t know, maybe just wishful thinking.
 
steelbtexan said:
It will help if the TE's dont have to spend so much time helping out in pass pro.
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Remember Dallas Clark & Brandon Stokely? How the Colts would flex them out when their third & fourth receivers were out? Then they would use a 6th OL to block.

I've mentioned this again & again, never do BO'b nuthuggers supporters suggest BO'b stuck with his TEs so they would be ready for 2019. I would buy that. I want to believe BO'b is thinking longterm. Planning, preparing for the future.
 
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