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TEXANS OTAs

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I think there is strong evidence of the opposite. Most of your handpicked were draft choices. Pretty sure the way the draft was run was the biggest issue between OB and RS and they were big issues. RS ran the draft and made the choices on the ever changing draft board. Even Kubiak in his humble manner said more than once that he coaches the players but he stayed out of the draft day process. After RS left there was a seismic shift in the Texans draft strategy and draft quotes before the draft with both OB and BG speaking the same language. And not surprisingly but still a work in progress these last two drafts appear to be not only much better but more focused.
Your memory is way faulty. Kubiak had total authority in 2006. After that the description has been entirely the same throughout - coaches heavily involved in draft evaluations & ranking and then within reason on draft day telling RS to fetch which RS did unless he thought the value was off.

This is best illusteared in Duane Brown who was wanted by Gibbs but RS traded back to take him. And JJ Watt where Philips wanted Patrick Peterson. RS thought they would have to trade up and arranged one but PP was picked 1 pick earlier. RS asked the coaches if they wanted Aldon Smith with the trade and they said no...and then took JJ.

Collaborative effort, not a dictatorship.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Great. In 5 years obrien has had the offense look good for a stretch. And that was when he basically let Watson do what he wanted, before he re-established his EP system
& despite them not quite being able to get untracked in BoB's tenure here, the offense last year still posted 25 ppg...Our best since 2012 under Kubiak at...........................................26 ppg. So either BoB's offense isn't nearly as bad as some of you have portrayed it..........or Kubiak's offense has/was hella overrated.

Look, If you want to have an honest, genuine discussion about why the offense hasn't been able to really show any level of sustained production then lets have it....but lets use a little critical thinking instead of throwing **** against the wall & seeing what sticks......... which is what you typically do.

& just a primer, I would start with the drafting & depth for the offense......which at best, had been poor prior to BoB's arrival & continued to be poor until 2016 when Smith finally started commiting high end draft resources to it.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
Your memory is way faulty. Kubiak had total authority in 2006. After that the description has been entirely the same throughout - coaches heavily involved in draft evaluations & ranking and then within reason on draft day telling RS to fetch which RS did unless he thought the value was off.

This is best illusteared in Duane Brown who was wanted by Gibbs but RS traded back to take him. And JJ Watt where Philips wanted Patrick Peterson. RS thought they would have to trade up and arranged one but PP was picked 1 pick earlier. RS asked the coaches if they wanted Aldon Smith with the trade and they said no...and then took JJ.

Collaborative effort, not a dictatorship.
My memory...and a quick check, wasn’t faulty enough to know RS wasn’t even hired until June 2006 so yeah Kubiak probably ran the draft, lol, and it is good enough to remember exactly what Kubiak said more than once on draft day.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
& despite them not quite being able to get untracked in BoB's tenure here, the offense last year still posted 25 ppg...Our best since 2012 under Kubiak at...........................................26 ppg. So either BoB's offense isn't nearly as bad as some of you have portrayed it..........or Kubiak's offense has/was hella overrated.

Look, If you want to have an honest, genuine discussion about why the offense hasn't been able to really show any level of sustained production then lets have it....but lets use a little critical thinking instead of throwing **** against the wall & seeing what sticks......... which is what you typically do.

& just a primer, I would start with the drafting & depth for the offense......which at best, had been poor prior to BoB's arrival & continued to be poor until 2016 when Smith finally started commiting high end draft resources to it.

Thank you for having a dynamic QB in Watson. That's why we scored 25 points a game. Watson goes down again and so does the offensive scoring.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
& despite them not quite being able to get untracked in BoB's tenure here, the offense last year still posted 25 ppg...Our best since 2012 under Kubiak at...........................................26 ppg. So either BoB's offense isn't nearly as bad as some of you have portrayed it..........or Kubiak's offense has/was hella overrated.

Look, If you want to have an honest, genuine discussion about why the offense hasn't been able to really show any level of sustained production then lets have it....but lets use a little critical thinking instead of throwing **** against the wall & seeing what sticks......... which is what you typically do.

& just a primer, I would start with the drafting & depth for the offense......which at best, had been poor prior to BoB's arrival & continued to be poor until 2016 when Smith finally started commiting high end draft resources to it.
So now you're arguing that the offense was actually good?


The offense was 15th in offensive points per game and 20th in tds. One of the worse in redzone. Kubiaks offense was better almost every single year.

So for someone who wants to use ******* critical thinking you sure don't on this subject.

And what were high end draft resources spent on then? Did they not spend on xsf, and fiedo? Didn't they go with who obrien wanted at QB in Fitz, hoyer and mallet? Wasn't it obrien who wanted to get rid of Brooks because he thought he had a bad attitude?

And so they started spending only in 2016 allegedly. Well the offense still sucked 2016-18.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
A good coach/OC would have a contingency plan for when key player/s go down. Obrien has failed miserably. Watson went down ( a freaking rookie) and the dude you said was your starter because he knew the offense through and through, couldn't at least make the offense look relevant. How in the heck you go from scoring 30+ to barely scoring 13 points a game.

That is what I believe KDog is talking about. When Fuller and rookie Keke went down we should've had receivers ready to go.
That becomes very difficult when most of your most reliable receiverS not named Hopkins go down, your #2 RB goes down, your oline is peppered with some that go down and others struggling to play through their injuries, and your TEs for the most part then need to fortify the oline on too many plays.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So now you're arguing that the offense was actually good?


The offense was 15th in offensive points per game and 20th in tds. One of the worse in redzone. Kubiaks offense was better almost every single year.

So for someone who wants to use ******* critical thinking you sure don't on this subject.

And what were high end draft resources spent on then? Did they not spend on xsf, and fiedo? Didn't they go with who obrien wanted at QB in Fitz, hoyer and mallet? Wasn't it obrien who wanted to get rid of Brooks because he thought he had a bad attitude?

And so they started spending only in 2016 allegedly. Well the offense still sucked 2016-18.

Yeah soooo much better that they scored a whole 1 pt more a game than BoB and the offense did this past year....:kubepalm:. so yeah like I said, kubiak’s offense was either hella overrated, or you’re just looking/ want to find something to ***** about...I vote for both.

Miss me with that offensive TD crap u continue to trot out...as if offenses and teams actually give a damn how pts get up on the board.

As for your other largely unfounded and just straight WRONG drivel, those high end draft resources didn’t start filing in until 2016 with will fuller. Before that, XSF was the only offensive player Smith had taken in 1 of the 1st 2 rounds of the draft since BoB arrived. Every other damn offensive player Smith drafted BEFORE 2016 under BoB’s tenure was a 3rd rounder or below. Lamar Miller is literally the only viable FA Acquistion Smith made during that same time frame that was worth a damn & someone that could be considered a piece for the future.

just about the entire core of our offense for the future literally just gotten here within the last 2 damn drafts.

Rankin
DW4
Howard
Scarping

Coutee
Akins/Thomas

And most of those came under Gaine, who has shown a commitment and dedication to the offense by using at least 2 of our top draft picks for the offense unlike Smith who was largely the opposite until his final draft in 2017.

The PPG being as high as it was this past year since 2012 is illustrative of why the “Smith effect” was just more than what folks like you like to gloss over.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Getting ticky tacky to make that statement. Marcus Coleman was same height and only 3 lbs lighter. Also many draft reports had Johnson as not as physical as his size would indicate.
Coleman's best football for the Texans was at safety
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Yeah soooo much better that they scored a whole 1 pt more a game than BoB and the offense did this past year....:kubepalm:. so yeah like I said, kubiak’s offense was either hella overrated, or you’re just looking/ want to find something to ***** about...I vote for both.

Miss me with that offensive TD crap u continue to trot out...as if offenses and teams actually give a damn how pts get up on the board.

As for your other largely unfounded and just straight WRONG drivel, those high end draft resources didn’t start filing in until 2016 with will fuller. Before that, XSF was the only offensive player Smith had taken in 1 of the 1st 2 rounds of the draft since BoB arrived. Every other damn offensive player Smith drafted BEFORE 2016 under BoB’s tenure was a 3rd rounder or below. Lamar Miller is literally the only viable FA Acquistion Smith made during that same time frame that was worth a damn & someone that could be considered a piece for the future.

just about the entire core of our offense for the future literally just gotten here within the last 2 damn drafts.

Rankin
DW4
Howard
Scarping

Coutee
Akins/Thomas

And most of those came under Gaine, who has shown a commitment and dedication to the offense by using at least 2 of our top draft picks for the offense unlike Smith who was largely the opposite until his final draft in 2017.

The PPG being as high as it was this past year since 2012 is illustrative of why the “Smith effect” was just more than what folks like you like to gloss over.
Kubiaks offense were around top 10 in scoring most years. Obriens offenses are usually below 20.

So you want to count defensive points to evaluate the offense? Lol
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
That becomes very difficult when most of your most reliable receiverS not named Hopkins go down, your #2 RB goes down, your oline is peppered with some that go down and others struggling to play through their injuries, and your TEs for the most part then need to fortify the oline on too many plays.
So then we're back to blaming injuries even though he still had Watson, Hopkins, his TEs, his #1 RB and 4 of his starting linemen.

The main issue was with obrien starting olinemen in the wrong spots. Moving Davenport to RT and Rankin at LT when Seantrel went down. Very bad evaluation on his part to think that would work.

All teams deal with injuries. If O'Brien can't succeed until 100% health then it's never gonna happen
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
So then we're back to blaming injuries even though he still had Watson, Hopkins, his TEs, his #1 RB and 4 of his starting linemen.

The main issue was with obrien starting olinemen in the wrong spots. Moving Davenport to RT and Rankin at LT when Seantrel went down. Very bad evaluation on his part to think that would work.

All teams deal with injuries. If O'Brien can't succeed until 100% health then it's never gonna happen
That was probably Devlin decision, moving Julie’n to RT and Rankin to LT.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Exactly, the high output offense coincides with Watson so OB doesn't "have to have sone something right."
Never said that.
My point is that he finally has a decent QB to work with.

Frankly, one thing has stood out with OB, when the QB doesn't know the system we win more often. TJ Yates, Keenum, rookie Watson...
Sophomore Watson (and his coach) had 11 wins and his fair share of flies in his ointment.
 
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DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Exactly, the high output offense coincides with Watson so OB doesn't "have to have done something right."

Frankly, one thing has stood out with OB, when the QB doesn't know the system we win more often. TJ Yates, Keenum, rookie Watson...
FIFY. The hallmark of OB's "offense(ive)" is that it has been executed better when he's had to "dumb it down" for QBs not experienced with it. I'm almost embarrassed for the members here that support OB's "offense(ive)" system. He might be a whiz kid on the white board (they're remarkable...just sayin...) but he has absolutely zero feel for a game. I'm currently about 2 plays ahead of him with what the offense will run on a particular drive. Down and distance dictate just about everything for him and creativity is virtually nil, unless you include DW4's innate ability.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
OB's "offense(ive)" is that it has been executed better when he's had to "dumb it down"
I'm currently about 2 plays ahead of him with what the offense will run on a particular drive.
creativity is virtually nil,
This....
This guys offense is stale, boring and whatever other adjective that has to do with "blah". When other OC's see something isn't working, game plans change and adjustments get made. OB seems to want to continually jam the round peg in the square hole. Or square peg, whatever, you get my point. It's frustrating as all hell.
 
FIFY. The hallmark of OB's "offense(ive)" is that it has been executed better when he's had to "dumb it down" for QBs not experienced with it. I'm almost embarrassed for the members here that support OB's "offense(ive)" system. He might be a whiz kid on the white board (they're remarkable...just sayin...) but he has absolutely zero feel for a game. I'm currently about 2 plays ahead of him with what the offense will run on a particular drive. Down and distance dictate just about everything for him and creativity is virtually nil, unless you include DW4's innate ability.
Well let’s clarify something first because I think there is something that gets mixed up. I think a lot of the people that say our offense is good, myself included, are referring to the talent we have on the field and not necessarily the play calling. I firmly believe that when the offense is healthy they can be one of the most dangerous units in the NFL. Whether BoB can utilize that unit properly is an entirely different discussion.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Exactly, the high output offense coincides with Watson so OB doesn't "have to have sone something right."

Frankly, one thing has stood out with OB, when the QB doesn't know the system we win more often. TJ Yates, Keenum, rookie Watson...
Yeah no...
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
So then we're back to blaming injuries even though he still had Watson, Hopkins, his TEs, his #1 RB and 4 of his starting linemen.

The main issue was with obrien starting olinemen in the wrong spots. Moving Davenport to RT and Rankin at LT when Seantrel went down. Very bad evaluation on his part to think that would work.

All teams deal with injuries. If O'Brien can't succeed until 100% health then it's never gonna happen
What Oline? Henderson was counted on and he went down with a broken ankle the first game of the season, never to be seen again. After rehabbing his foot, Rankin was dealing with an ankle injury through most of the season. Early Oct, Martin started having problems with his ankle again, lasting the rest of the season. Fulton, the beginning of Oct, suffered a significant ankle injury, then in Nov added shoulder and hand injuries that continued to the end of the season. Kelemete injured his ankle mid Nov then added elbow and wrist injuries in Dec, all injuries affecting him through the rest of the season. Mantz re-injured his knee in early Nov which dogged him the remainder of the season. Besides that, the Oline was fortunate to still have the likes of Davenport and Lamm.

And our TEs? Griffin sustained a hip injury and a turf toe early in the season that continued to affect him through the rest of the season. And Thomas, although not publicized injured his hip early in the season and was slowed with it during most of the season.
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien, maybe?
This....
This guys offense is stale, boring and whatever other adjective that has to do with "blah". When other OC's see something isn't working, game plans change and adjustments get made. OB seems to want to continually jam the round peg in the square hole. Or square peg, whatever, you get my point. It's frustrating as all hell.
What mystifies me is when he changes something that was working to something that wasn’t. It’s dual personality BoB outcoaching themselves.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Kubiaks offense were around top 10 in scoring most years. Obriens offenses are usually below 20.

So you want to count defensive points to evaluate the offense? Lol

Bro, 2018 we scored what 4 total defensive TDs?....I looked it up, the 2012 team scored 3. Without actually doing the numbers, I'm willing to bet that over the course of a full season, such low production from that area isn't factoring in that much into the offense's total PPG average which is why the crap you keep spewing about total offensive TD's is irrelevant. 2018 offense is around 11-12 with or without the defensive TDs. The rankings **** is inconsequential considering its a year to year thing. The 2012 offense that you're pumping up is barely & i mean BARELY a top 10 offense in the 2018 league year.

And AGAIN at its best the 2012 offense was only scoring 1 pt better a game than what BoB’s offense with a healthy DW4 did this year was scoring.............. despite all its obvious handicaps with injuries and bad o-line play. To make the connection for u that u don’t seem to be grasping: Insert BoB's offensive performance this year, back in 2012 and it is a top 10 ranked offense by just about any offensive metric you want to look at.

Also, when you factor in how the 2012 offense finished the season...getting wrecked in 3 out of its final 4, followed by 2 lackluster offensive performance in both of its playoffs games, you have to question whether it was really all that good to begin with.
 
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ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
& despite them not quite being able to get untracked in BoB's tenure here, the offense last year still posted 25 ppg...Our best since 2012 under Kubiak at...........................................26 ppg. So either BoB's offense isn't nearly as bad as some of you have portrayed it..........or Kubiak's offense has/was hella overrated.

Look, If you want to have an honest, genuine discussion about why the offense hasn't been able to really show any level of sustained production then lets have it....but lets use a little critical thinking instead of throwing **** against the wall & seeing what sticks......... which is what you typically do.

& just a primer, I would start with the drafting & depth for the offense......which at best, had been poor prior to BoB's arrival & continued to be poor until 2016 when Smith finally started commiting high end draft resources to it.
What if OB had Schaub and Kubiak had DW4? Just sayin
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
What if Kubiak had Brock Osweiler? What if Chris Paul was available for game 7...Rockets fans had to find out the hard way about what ifs.
actually he did have Osweiler.
He actually had the 'nads to bench Peyton Manning to let Osweiler start. And when Osweiler started to be Osweiler he benched him too and reinstalled Manning as the starter.
Did I mention they beat Pittsburgh AND NE in the playoffs on the way to winning the SB that year?
Has O'Brien ever beaten Belichick... I can't remember
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Apparently SB win.
Yeah he knew what Oz was...which is why he yanked him as soon as Manning could walk without a limp lol. But remember, this is the same guy who had the best WR in the game in his prime for a number of years yet his offense still couldn't manage to get him a single double digit TD season. Let some on here tell it, Kubiak flat out refused to target AJ in the red zone with jump ball fades when we got in the red zone....throws that AJ's counterpart Larry Fitzgerald was rountinely recieving and converting on..hence the huge disparity in TD catches for each guy. Kubiak might be the sole reason AJ has issues getting into the hall of fame.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
actually he did have Osweiler.
He actually had the 'nads to bench Peyton Manning to let Osweiler start. And when Osweiler started to be Osweiler he benched him too and reinstalled Manning as the starter.
Did I mention they beat Pittsburgh AND NE in the playoffs on the way to winning the SB that year?
Has O'Brien ever beaten Belichick... I can't remember
Lol, NADS? We're talking about a guy who couldn't even watch game ending FG attempts. It wasn't NADS so much as it was Manning just couldn't perform b/c he was hurt & thus took himself out until he got reasonably healthy. Kubiak hadn't beaten Belichick up until then either in anything that mattered except a meaningless end of season game in like his 2nd year. By the way, that vaunted, explosive broncos offense Kubiak commanded that year in 2015, only scored 20 pts & didn't even have 300 total yds of offense in that AFC championship game that they won...they were carried by a top level defense that managed to hold Brady & co. to just 18 which is damn near unheard of.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Bro, 2018 we scored what 4 total defensive TDs?....I looked it up, the 2012 team scored 3. Without actually doing the numbers, I'm willing to bet that over the course of a full season, such low production from that area isn't factoring in that much into the offense's total PPG average which is why the crap you keep spewing about total offensive TD's is irrelevant. 2018 offense is around 11-12 with or without the defensive TDs. The rankings **** is inconsequential considering its a year to year thing. The 2012 offense that you're pumping up is barely & i mean BARELY a top 10 offense in the 2018 league year.

And AGAIN at its best the 2012 offense was only scoring 1 pt better a game than what BoB’s offense with a healthy DW4 did this year was scoring.............. despite all its obvious handicaps with injuries and bad o-line play. To make the connection for u that u don’t seem to be grasping: Insert BoB's offensive performance this year, back in 2012 and it is a top 10 ranked offense by just about any offensive metric you want to look at.

Also, when you factor in how the 2012 offense finished the season...getting wrecked in 3 out of its final 4, followed by 2 lackluster offensive performance in both of its playoffs games, you have to question whether it was really all that good to begin with.
There's no reason to recalculate it. Offensive points per game was 15th. Tds per game was 20th.

At best the OBrien was average and that's his best ever

Kubiaks was top 10 almost every year.

There's no reason to recalculate it.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
There's no reason to recalculate it. Offensive points per game was 15th. Tds per game was 20th.

At best the OBrien was average and that's his best ever

Kubiaks was top 10 almost every year.

There's no reason to recalculate it.
Our offense is only this effective because we're "multiple."
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Lol, NADS? We're talking about a guy who couldn't even watch game ending FG attempts. It wasn't NADS so much as it was Manning just couldn't perform b/c he was hurt & thus took himself out until he got reasonably healthy. Kubiak hadn't beaten Belichick up until then either in anything that mattered except a meaningless end of season game in like his 2nd year. By the way, that vaunted, explosive broncos offense Kubiak commanded that year in 2015, only scored 20 pts & didn't even have 300 total yds of offense in that AFC championship game that they won...they were carried by a top level defense that managed to hold Brady & co. to just 18 which is damn near unheard of.
I never cared that GK hated to watch game ending FG attempts; to me that was always a "so what".
Manning took himself out??
I'll need a link please otherwise its just Revisionist history.

And the Broncos beat them that very same season to get to 9-2. So this-->
Kubiak hadn't beaten Belichick up until then either in anything that mattered except a meaningless end of season game in like his 2nd year. ...is just flat wrong.

My question was when has O'Brien EVER beaten Belichick/Brady?
 

Dejaview

Rookie
actually he did have Osweiler.
He actually had the 'nads to bench Peyton Manning to let Osweiler start. And when Osweiler started to be Osweiler he benched him too and reinstalled Manning as the starter.
Did I mention they beat Pittsburgh AND NE in the playoffs on the way to winning the SB that year?
Has O'Brien ever beaten Belichick... I can't remember
Just a little reminder. 2012. The Texans were in that window. It was their year. So against all possible odds The Texans and Kubiak blew the #1seed losing out in the late season...the exact time SB teams are putting it in gear (wasn’t one of those losses to the Pats in the letter jacket bowl?) Of course they went on to get blown out by the Pats in the playoffs. And while still in that “window” they went what, 2-12 the next year give or take a game or two, I can’t remember. Those were soft finesse teams in those years. Never could play with the big guys. He wins in Denver...Elway>>>RS. Reality sucks. Nads...maybe like those on a Greek sculpture.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
There's no reason to recalculate it. Offensive points per game was 15th. Tds per game was 20th.

At best the OBrien was average and that's his best ever

Kubiaks was top 10 almost every year.

There's no reason to recalculate it.

Lol....no matter how u try to look at it, that 2012 offense just wasn’t that much better bro. They were a fringe top 10 offense back then with everything in place and wouldn’t even be top 10 today being only 1 pt better than BoB’s supposedly much more inferior offense that doesn’t even have a functional o-line.

Kubiak’s offense’s were never all that great & He never won **** here with his supposedly great offenses you and your types swear we had. He only won in Denver b/c his Defense had an all time great run not allowing any of its opponents more than 18 pts the entire playoff run...while the offense was literally having a fg fest having only scored 4 touchdowns the entire playoff run with only 2 in the passing game..sounds eerily familiar to how our offense was running circa 2005-2013...

But you go ahead with your incorrect narrative. It’s what u do best around here.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Lol....no matter how u try to look at it, that 2012 offense just wasn’t that much better bro. They were a fringe top 10 offense back then with everything in place and wouldn’t even be top 10 today being only 1 pt better than BoB’s supposedly much more inferior offense that doesn’t even have a functional o-line.

Kubiak’s offense’s were never all that great & He never won **** here with his supposedly great offenses you and your types swear we had. He only won in Denver b/c his Defense had an all time great run not allowing any of its opponents more than 18 pts the entire playoff run...while the offense was literally having a fg fest having only scored 4 touchdowns the entire playoff run with only 2 in the passing game..sounds eerily familiar to how our offense was running circa 2005-2013...

But you go ahead with your incorrect narrative. It’s what u do best around here.
So you think kubiaks offense sucked but Obriens is good? Are you watching the games?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Just a little reminder. 2012. The Texans were in that window. It was their year. So against all possible odds The Texans and Kubiak blew the #1seed losing out in the late season...the exact time SB teams are putting it in gear (wasn’t one of those losses to the Pats in the letter jacket bowl?) Of course they went on to get blown out by the Pats in the playoffs. And while still in that “window” they went what, 2-12 the next year give or take a game or two, I can’t remember. Those were soft finesse teams in those years. Never could play with the big guys. He wins in Denver...Elway>>>RS. Reality sucks. Nads...maybe like those on a Greek sculpture.
Denver’s had homefield throughout the playoffs that year. Their defense allowed no more than 18 pts to every opponent. The offense scored a high water mark of 24 pts, only scored 4 TDs the entire run....Manning was done & had as many TO as passing TDs. The offense was simply not good.

Like Manning, Kubiak was largely their for the ride.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
So you think kubiaks offense sucked but Obriens is good? Are you watching the games?
Are u? Pay attention. The numbers suggest that both offense’s are much closer to about the same than 1 being so much greater than the other like you and a few others are claiming.

But how can u make this claim when they’re only separated by 1 stinking point per game? Doesn’t matter if u want to count defensive TD’s or not, it’s still just 1 pt.

Their either both very good, mediocre or trash. & just based on how the 2012 team performed down the stretch, it’s more likely that neither were/are that good.

Context fam. Just b/c Kubiak wound up a top 10 offense that year, doesn’t magically mean it was good. As has been pointed out, that offense wouldn’t be a top 10 in today’s league. So would that somehow mean it would sucks in your eyes?

Probably not b/c that wouldn’t fit your narrative. You’d undoubtedly come up with some other garbage qualifier to prop up your confirmation bias.
 
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Dejaview

Rookie
So you think kubiaks offense sucked but Obriens is good? Are you watching the games?
You mean the ones that made Kubiak a sub .500 Texans coach and OB an above .500 one? All I read everyday is how much DW, DH and others love that guy. Now he’s got a real GM. I look at the things that appear to be on the upside and this is getting fun again.
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Are u? Pay attention. The numbers suggest that both offense’s are much closer to about the same than 1 being so much greater than the other like you and a few others are claiming.

But how can u make this claim when they’re only separated by 1 stinking point per game? Doesn’t matter if u want to count defensive TD’s or not, it’s still just 1 pt.

Their either both very good, mediocre or trash. & just based on how the 2012 team performed down the stretch, it’s more likely that neither were/are that good.

Context fam. Just b/c Kubiak wound up a top 10 offense that year, doesn’t magically mean it was good. As has been pointed out, that offense wouldn’t be a top 10 in today’s league. So would that somehow mean it would sucks in your eyes?

Probably not b/c that wouldn’t fit your narrative. You’d undoubtedly come up with some other garbage qualifier to prop up your confirmation bias.
By your logic, OBs offense is as good as, if not better, than the 80's 49ers. So, talk about context, you're in some bizarro universe thinking that Kubiak's offense isn't any better than OBs. A shame too because you seemed to be having so much fun bashing those who aren't in that lala land.

Not only is the game much different now than it was in the 80's, it's different too from just 6 years ago.

You don't like Kubiak, that's fine, but don't make shit up. I enjoy stats but I know stats are FAR from telling the whole story. Especially when you just cherry pick them. The point differential between '12 and '18 may have only been a handful of points (in favor of Kubiak BTW), and only a 3 offensive TD difference, but Kubiak's offense was 9th in the league in off. TD then, where OB was 18th last season. That's a huge difference in efficiency. Also, 7.1 teams per season were scoring over 400 points a season 6 years prior to 2012, where 9.5 teams per year hit 400+ in 6 seasons after.

And never mind the eyeball test. If you can't see the difference there, then the question of are you watching is a valid one.
 


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