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Texans don’t plan to hire a G.M. in 2020

I'll always view the signing of Osweiler as a McNair move. RS got on board b/c he was given his marching orders and doing as instructed. I think Osweiler's sole value in the eyes of McNair......he beat the Patriots while putting up some decent numbers during his short stint as starting QB. The Patriots game elevated his stock.

When OB stated he only coaches the players he's given.....when asked about Osweiler, pretty much summed it up for me that he was not n the talks when it was decided to sign him. Anyone in here remember when the two of them got along great? In my mind, OB pushed the team to trade Osweiler b/c he felt like he wasn't going to win with him as starting QB.

Watson's in the same boat. He's not a OB hand selected pick.....he's a RS pick. The difference, Watson's proven to have talent and is capable of winning games. I think if OB had a way to put Watson in the dog house he probably would. OB is set in his ways and I just don't see Watson as the QB OB wants running his prized offense. Did anyone else see any photos of OB and other members of the Texans War Room jumping up and slapping high fives or patting RS on the back after the Watson trade-up and pick?

Texans are n another quandary, keep these two together and win just enough to no longer have relevant drafts, fire OB and bring in HC and staff that can build an offense around Watson's strengths, or trade Watson, keep OB and give him the picks needed to rebuild the team in his vision with the QB he's envisioned to run his offense. There really isn't any gray area in what must be done.
I agree with you except the bolded. Oh I fully agree that Watson wasn't the QB that OB wanted and the war room photo keeps getting dragged up but we have to remember that was 3 years ago. Lot of things have changed since then and I think OB is sincere when he talks about liking Watson and how you can win a SB with that kid. Here is a counter to the war room photo, after the Pats win it was Watson that made the speech and gave the game ball to OB and they hugged and generally seemed to like each other. Now that could just be the emotion of a big win but that sort of thing is hard to fake.

I do agree that Watson isn't the type of QB that OB wants, not Watson himself but mobile, duel threat QBs. OB has always favored big arm pocket passers, we saw it with Mallot, Hoyer, Savage, though neither of them had a great arm, and even Osweiler was very much a pocket passer he was just a pocket passer that couldn't pass. What Watson had going for him that has caused OB to try and make it work is that Watson is a true student of the game and wants to win as much as any player to ever play the game. Add to that I think he is very easy to get along with and wants to be coached and there you go.

I mentioned this before but when talking about Jason Garrett and why he keeps going back to the passing game when they are built to run. One person on ESPN says coaches default to what they know in high pressure situations. I think a pocket passer system is what OB's default is and it just doesn't work with this QB and this team. What we see in games like the Jags and the Pats is OB overcoming his default and seeing and using the team as it is built, what we see in the Denver and Ravens game is OB defaulting back to how he wishes the team was built. Sadly I don't know that he will ever be able to overcome his default enough to win it all at least not as a Texan.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I'll always view the signing of Osweiler as a McNair move. RS got on board b/c he was given his marching orders and doing as instructed. I think Osweiler's sole value in the eyes of McNair......he beat the Patriots while putting up some decent numbers during his short stint as starting QB. The Patriots game elevated his stock.

When OB stated he only coaches the players he's given.....when asked about Osweiler, pretty much summed it up for me that he was not n the talks when it was decided to sign him. Anyone in here remember when the two of them got along great? In my mind, OB pushed the team to trade Osweiler b/c he felt like he wasn't going to win with him as starting QB.

Watson's in the same boat. He's not a OB hand selected pick.....he's a RS pick. The difference, Watson's proven to have talent and is capable of winning games. I think if OB had a way to put Watson in the dog house he probably would. OB is set in his ways and I just don't see Watson as the QB OB wants running his prized offense. Did anyone else see any photos of OB and other members of the Texans War Room jumping up and slapping high fives or patting RS on the back after the Watson trade-up and pick?

Texans are n another quandary, keep these two together and win just enough to no longer have relevant drafts, fire OB and bring in HC and staff that can build an offense around Watson's strengths, or trade Watson, keep OB and give him the picks needed to rebuild the team in his vision with the QB he's envisioned to run his offense. There really isn't any gray area in what must be done.
If you truly believe this, then firing BOB is the only logical option. If you have a HC that needs a very specific type of QB to be successful, then that's a bad head coach.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
The Watson hater is the one who said *Watson is guaranteed to get injured
There have been multiple people that have continually used this strange argument that Watson's career would end this season if the Tunsil trade wasn't made to justify it.

Little known fact is that we didn't have Tunsil last season and a busted Oline and Watson survived and played a really good season for the Texans.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
If you truly believe this, then firing BOB is the only logical option. If you have a HC that needs a very specific type of QB to be successful, then that's a bad head coach.
All coaches need a specific type QB.

But I agree with you, DW4 is going to get BOB fired. Some will be very happy when this day comes. What I wonder is when DW4 gets the next HC fired who will the apologists blame then?

This franchise will be set back for another 5 yrs. SMH
 
If you truly believe this, then firing BOB is the only logical option. If you have a HC that needs a very specific type of QB to be successful, then that's a bad head coach.
Its not just OB, Reid hasn't been successful in KC till he got a QB like Mahomes. All coaches have things they prefer in players and are more successful when they get those things. You are right though in that the truly great coaches learn to go to war with the army they have and not the army they want to have. Its why I say there are maybe 3 what I would call great HCs in the NFL, 4-5 good ones and the rest are average to below average. BoB isn't even close to a bad HC, an average one yes but not a bad one. We just think he is because we aren't happy with the results here but if you step back and compare him to many other HCs in the league from a neutral view point right now he isn't near as bad as some of them

That's not to say I'm happy with an average HC and in fact I will grant you he might be slightly below average because even an average HC can win a SB if they have a good team. Look at Kubiak in Denver, he was another average HC but he had a team custom built to win a SB in 15 and then do nothing else after for years. Difference is Kubiak had the experience to realize he could ride that wave to a SB win as long as he gets out of his own way. OB hasn't yet learn how to get out of his own way and is his own worst enemy.
 

mws

Waterboy
Best Season Record
With Watson: 11-5 .688
Without: 9-7 .562

Overall Record
With Watson: 22-13 .629
Without: 28-30 .483

Record Against Above 500 Teams
With Watson: 6-9 .400
Without: 7-20 .259

Games where Opponent Scores 22 Points or More
With Watson: 7-11 .389
Without: 1-25 .038


I'm sorry but the numbers disagree. If anything they say Watson is probably the thing that will keep O'Brien's job.
The one thing the Texans have not done with or without Watson is win in the playoffs. The difference is this is only Watson's 2nd full season & O'Brien's 6th.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Its not just OB, Reid hasn't been successful in KC till he got a QB like Mahomes. All coaches have things they prefer in players and are more successful when they get those things. You are right though in that the truly great coaches learn to go to war with the army they have and not the army they want to have. Its why I say there are maybe 3 what I would call great HCs in the NFL, 4-5 good ones and the rest are average to below average. BoB isn't even close to a bad HC, an average one yes but not a bad one. We just think he is because we aren't happy with the results here but if you step back and compare him to many other HCs in the league from a neutral view point right now he isn't near as bad as some of them

That's not to say I'm happy with an average HC and in fact I will grant you he might be slightly below average because even an average HC can win a SB if they have a good team. Look at Kubiak in Denver, he was another average HC but he had a team custom built to win a SB in 15 and then do nothing else after for years. Difference is Kubiak had the experience to realize he could ride that wave to a SB win as long as he gets out of his own way. OB hasn't yet learn how to get out of his own way and is his own worst enemy.
What do you mean by "successful"? He's brought KC to the playoffs w/o Mahomes. I do agree, though, that KC is better w/ Mahomes, because of the simple fact that Mahomes is ALOT better than Alex Smith.

The point of my post is if BOB needs a specific QB with a specific skillset, in order to be successful, then that's signs of not a very good HC to me. That means we're still in year 6 of this "QB Search" and we need to give him more time to keep looking. Sure, a head coach will have their preferences, but they should understand the QB they end up with is not going to be their perfect vision of a QB. You have to be willing to adapt to the talent you are given. (now if you're given a bad QB, that's a whole other issue. Watson is not a bad QB.)

Now, this post wasn't meant as a knock on BOB, nor am I saying he isn't adapting. Look at the original post I was responding to. He presented two options, one being should we trade Watson, keep BOB, and look for the QB he "needs". I'm merely saying that shouldn't be an option.
 

mws

Waterboy
We just think he is because we aren't happy with the results here but if you step back and compare him to many other HCs in the league from a neutral view point right now he isn't near as bad as some of them
I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure of this but I could only think of one current HC that has had 5 or more seasons with their current team who has 1 or less playoff wins & that was Jay Gruden with 0 playoff wins and he has already been fired.

Even Jason Garrett has 2 playoff wins.

Hell they just fired Ron Rivera and he was in the super bowl in 2016.

So I would really be interested in who you consider worse than O'Brien who has been given as much time as he has.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure of this but I could only think of one current HC that has had 5 or more seasons with their current team who has 1 or less playoff wins & that was Jay Gruden with 0 playoff wins and he has already been fired.

Even Jason Garrett has 2 playoff wins.

Hell they just fired Ron Rivera and he was in the super bowl in 2016.

So I would really be interested in who you consider worse than O'Brien who has been given as much time as he has.
2 yrs without RS isn't much time at all.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
What do you mean by "successful"? He's brought KC to the playoffs w/o Mahomes. I do agree, though, that KC is better w/ Mahomes, because of the simple fact that Mahomes is ALOT better than Alex Smith.

The point of my post is if BOB needs a specific QB with a specific skillset, in order to be successful, then that's signs of not a very good HC to me. That means we're still in year 6 of this "QB Search" and we need to give him more time to keep looking. Sure, a head coach will have their preferences, but they should understand the QB they end up with is not going to be their perfect vision of a QB. You have to be willing to adapt to the talent you are given. (now if you're given a bad QB, that's a whole other issue. Watson is not a bad QB.)

Now, this post wasn't meant as a knock on BOB, nor am I saying he isn't adapting. Look at the original post I was responding to. He presented two options, one being should we trade Watson, keep BOB, and look for the QB he "needs". I'm merely saying that shouldn't be an option.
I'm for the starting over option
 
What do you mean by "successful"? He's brought KC to the playoffs w/o Mahomes. I do agree, though, that KC is better w/ Mahomes, because of the simple fact that Mahomes is ALOT better than Alex Smith.

The point of my post is if BOB needs a specific QB with a specific skillset, in order to be successful, then that's signs of not a very good HC to me. That means we're still in year 6 of this "QB Search" and we need to give him more time to keep looking. Sure, a head coach will have their preferences, but they should understand the QB they end up with is not going to be their perfect vision of a QB. You have to be willing to adapt to the talent you are given. (now if you're given a bad QB, that's a whole other issue. Watson is not a bad QB.)

Now, this post wasn't meant as a knock on BOB, nor am I saying he isn't adapting. Look at the original post I was responding to. He presented two options, one being should we trade Watson, keep BOB, and look for the QB he "needs". I'm merely saying that shouldn't be an option.
I have posted and pointed this out before but prior to Mahomes Reid's record in KC was the same as BoB's. One playoff win and that was against us and he has been there an equal amount of time. He may have had one more playoff appearance but the big knock against Bob is he has had one playoff win his whole time here. Well Reid had one playoff win before he got Mahomes and while Mahomes maybe better than Smith, Smith was far better than Hoyer, Mallet, Savage and Osweiler. Even the AFCC run they had last year was in Mahomes rookie year, Watson was having just as good if not better rookie year in 17 and had he not gotten injured I honestly believe we would have had a deep run that year like KC did in 18. Since then teams have gotten film on both guys and while both are still very good its not the superman stuff as before.

I'm not saying BoB is a better HC than Reid, frankly I think they are about equal and that both need a particular type of QB to really show what they can do. Reid had a pocket passer in Smith and he needed a gunslinger, BoB got a duel threat QB and he needs a pocket passer. Don't get me wrong if you ask me to choose between keeping Watson or keeping BoB I'd chose Watson but lets not act like BoB is so different from other HC. I know you didn't mean it as a knock and I'm not defending him, I just want people to judge all HCs by the same standard but the grass being greener and all that.

I'm not saying that I'm 100% sure of this but I could only think of one current HC that has had 5 or more seasons with their current team who has 1 or less playoff wins & that was Jay Gruden with 0 playoff wins and he has already been fired.

Even Jason Garrett has 2 playoff wins.

Hell they just fired Ron Rivera and he was in the super bowl in 2016.

So I would really be interested in who you consider worse than O'Brien who has been given as much time as he has.
People keep bringing up this time with the team thing but let me ask you, before Watson which QB did we have while BoB has been here that was going to take us anywhere? Now let me be clear I am not excusing BoB as I believe he wanted Hoyer as a bridge, Mallet as franchise and Savage as the project for the future which shows that in those cases at least he can't judge QBs. Jason Garret does have two playoff wins but he also has one of the most, on paper, talent heavy teams in the league and he has had 10 years. I still don't judge that as a good standard but it still is worse.

See we on TT are tired of regular season wins and division championships and say those don't matter and that is completely understandable. What we forget though that to the rest of the world at large and the rest of the NFL in particular those things do matter. BoB has had one losing season since he was hired and made the playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and odds are will this year to. If Texans fired him tomorrow I really do think he would be coaching a new team by next season.

Now I really do understand your point about how long he has been here but there is a case to be made that he hasn't been given a team. We could debate all day who is to blame for that and never really hit on the answer. Some will say its on OB, some its on RS, some that its on McNair. I think its a combination of all the above and we have had to suffer through grown men acting like children and being petty about not getting their way. They should have cleaned house after Kubiak left but RS was a personal friend of the family, they should have cleaned house after RS left but Bob McNair was in bad health and everyone thought OB and Gaine were on the same page. If we don't see real results after this season then to me they should clean house again but more than likely they will bring Caserio in, yes I've seen the reports and I don't believe them, and it will be business as usual.
 

mws

Waterboy
Did some more research. This is a list of the best the HC did in post season.

Head Coaches with 5 or more seasons with current team.

Bill Belichick - Super Bowl
Mike Tomlin - Super Bowl
Sean Payton - Super Bowl
Andy Reid - AFC Championship
Mike Zimmer - NFC Championship
Pete Carroll - Super Bowl
John Harbaugh - Super Bowl
Jason Garrett - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 1 Playoff Win

In his 5th season
Dan Quinn - Super Bowl

In his 4th season
Doug Pederson - Super Bowl

Everybody else is in their 3rd season or less with their current team.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
Did some more research. This is a list of the best the HC did in post season.

Head Coaches with 5 or more seasons with current team.

Bill Belichick - Super Bowl
Mike Tomlin - Super Bowl
Sean Payton - Super Bowl
Andy Reid - AFC Championship
Mike Zimmer - NFC Championship
Pete Carroll - Super Bowl
John Harbaugh - Super Bowl
Jason Garrett - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 1 Playoff Win

In his 5th season
Dan Quinn - Super Bowl

In his 4th season
Doug Pederson - Super Bowl

Everybody else is in their 3rd season or less with their current team.
Well, at least OB is better than Marvin Lewis (0-7 in the playoffs). Yay!

Give him another extension.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
John Harbaugh disagrees with you. As a matter of fact, his 2019 season clearly proves this mentality to be weak, at best.

Adapting a scheme to your talent is the flexibility that breeds success.
Harbaugh didn't do so well with Flacco. Hmmm, his brother liked Kapernick over Smith... common tie?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
John Harbaugh disagrees with you. As a matter of fact, his 2019 season clearly proves this mentality to be weak, at best.

Adapting a scheme to your talent is the flexibility that breeds success.
While I agree with you, this is an extreme case.

It's much better to have a GM that knows what kind of QB your HC wants and goes out and gets that guy.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Did some more research. This is a list of the best the HC did in post season.

Head Coaches with 5 or more seasons with current team.

Bill Belichick - Super Bowl
Mike Tomlin - Super Bowl
Sean Payton - Super Bowl
Andy Reid - AFC Championship
Mike Zimmer - NFC Championship
Pete Carroll - Super Bowl
John Harbaugh - Super Bowl
Jason Garrett - 2 Playoff Wins
Bill O'Brien - 1 Playoff Win

In his 5th season
Dan Quinn - Super Bowl

In his 4th season
Doug Pederson - Super Bowl

Everybody else is in their 3rd season or less with their current team.
Minus RS

2 years
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
All coaches need a specific type QB.

But I agree with you, DW4 is going to get BOB fired. Some will be very happy when this day comes. What I wonder is when DW4 gets the next HC fired who will the apologists blame then?

This franchise will be set back for another 5 yrs. SMH

What!!!!!!

Are you serious right now. We're talking 6 years of the same crap. And you honestly believe Watson will be the reason Bill Obrien gets fired. Wow
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Harbaugh didn't do so well with Flacco. Hmmm, his brother liked Kapernick over Smith... common tie?
Overall, perhaps. But I'll take that Super Bowl Championship that Harbaugh and Flacco won together.

They also made it to two more AFC Championship games together, as well as playoff appearances in 7 seasons out of 11.

While I agree with you, this is an extreme case.

It's much better to have a GM that knows what kind of QB your HC wants and goes out and gets that guy.
Other coaches are adapting. Reid has incorporated concepts from Texas Tech to accommodate Mahomes' skills. Doug Pederson adopted RPO concepts for Carson Wentz. Sean McVay incorporates the college spread concepts for Jared Goff.

My main point is coaches need to be flexible and adapt to their talent instead of trying to constantly fit a square peg into a round hole.

btw, I completely agree with you about GM and HC working together, but we have one man that is responsible for both jobs right now. And before that we have ownership that seems to reject the traditional model of owner>GM>HC in favor of a consensus-building corporate boardroom format for their front office. (Maybe that way they get a seat at the boardroom, too? I can only speculate as to why they went with this model.)

It was a mistake to get a HC that was not aligned with Rick Smith, and then get a GM that was apparently not aligned with the HC. The McNairs are trying to do things their way, but in the end it's all a dysfunctional mess. You've now got an OC/HC/GM that is throwing shade at his DC for a total team meltdown last Sunday. That's not a good look.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
2 without RS and DW4 was RS last incompetent move

This is why I want a fresh start all the way around..

You’re coming up with nothing but excuses.

And you know darn well if we blow this up, all of us will be complaining about the new regime as well.

So get rid of this entire coaching staff and players like Watson, Hopkins, and a host of other core players. Is that what you’re suggesting?
 
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Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I'll always view the signing of Osweiler as a McNair move. RS got on board b/c he was given his marching orders and doing as instructed. I think Osweiler's sole value in the eyes of McNair......he beat the Patriots while putting up some decent numbers during his short stint as starting QB. The Patriots game elevated his stock.

When OB stated he only coaches the players he's given.....when asked about Osweiler, pretty much summed it up for me that he was not n the talks when it was decided to sign him. Anyone in here remember when the two of them got along great? In my mind, OB pushed the team to trade Osweiler b/c he felt like he wasn't going to win with him as starting QB.

Watson's in the same boat. He's not a OB hand selected pick.....he's a RS pick. The difference, Watson's proven to have talent and is capable of winning games. I think if OB had a way to put Watson in the dog house he probably would. OB is set in his ways and I just don't see Watson as the QB OB wants running his prized offense. Did anyone else see any photos of OB and other members of the Texans War Room jumping up and slapping high fives or patting RS on the back after the Watson trade-up and pick?

Texans are n another quandary, keep these two together and win just enough to no longer have relevant drafts, fire OB and bring in HC and staff that can build an offense around Watson's strengths, or trade Watson, keep OB and give him the picks needed to rebuild the team in his vision with the QB he's envisioned to run his offense. There really isn't any gray area in what must be done.
If all that's true, what is an OB pick? Fitz, Hoyer, Savage? And now he's the guy making the picks?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Overall, perhaps. But I'll take that Super Bowl Championship that Harbaugh and Flacco won together.

They also made it to two more AFC Championship games together, as well as playoff appearances in 7 seasons out of 11.
This was mostly due to an amazing defense... Flacco did have an amazing playoff run though in 2012
 

Earl34

Rookie
You’re coming up with nothing but excuses.

And you know darn well if we blow this up, all of us will be complaining about the new regime as well.

So get rid of this entire coaching staff and players like Watson, Hopkins, and a host of other core players. Is that what you’re suggesting?
This narrative is so ridiculous. If I'm reading these posts correctly. O'Brien needs a certain type of QB to run his scheme. He has to have full control of personnel. He needs years of rebuilding to overcome Rick Smith. Yet, Rick Smith left him with a core of Hopkins, Watt, Clowney, Jackson, Watson, Martin, McKinney, Cunningham and even Joseph?

How many first time HCs with such little experience and results have gotten so much control over an NFL team? What next? Cal has to give him a percentage of the team to get to the AFCCG? We are even talking about trading a potential franchise QB to allow O'Brien to find his QB to run his scheme? O'Brien still can't even develop, identify or even integrate a slot WR into the game plan on a consistent basis and he's suppose to get the keys to NRG?
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
This narrative is so ridiculous. If I'm reading these posts correctly. O'Brien needs a certain type of QB to run his scheme. He has to have full control of personnel. He needs years of rebuilding to overcome Rick Smith. Yet, Rick Smith left him with a core of Hopkins, Watt, Clowney, Jackson, Watson, Martin, McKinney, Cunningham and even Joseph?

How many first time HCs with such little experience and results have gotten so much control over an NFL team? What next? Cal has to give him a percentage of the team to get to the AFCCG? We are even talking about trading a potential franchise QB to allow O'Brien to find his QB to run his scheme? O'Brien still can't even develop, identify or even integrate a slot WR into the game plan on a consistent basis and he's suppose to get the keys to NRG?

That will be none. Like I said many moons ago Bill O’Briens conversation is top notch. He can smooth talk a joker right out of his socks. That’s exactly what he did to Cal McNair. You had your coach right here but let him slip away to the 49ers. This team would’ve been rolling by now and would have had a positive identity.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This narrative is so ridiculous. If I'm reading these posts correctly. O'Brien needs a certain type of QB to run his scheme. He has to have full control of personnel. He needs years of rebuilding to overcome Rick Smith. Yet, Rick Smith left him with a core of Hopkins, Watt, Clowney, Jackson, Watson, Martin, McKinney, Cunningham and even Joseph?

How many first time HCs with such little experience and results have gotten so much control over an NFL team? What next? Cal has to give him a percentage of the team to get to the AFCCG? We are even talking about trading a potential franchise QB to allow O'Brien to find his QB to run his scheme? O'Brien still can't even develop, identify or even integrate a slot WR into the game plan on a consistent basis and he's suppose to get the keys to NRG?
Everything you just described are factors that depend on QB play.

So yes, if you think DW4 can bring a championship to this city you would be correct in this post. Where we disagree is whether we think DW4 can do this. Minds may not be changed but history will tell the tale.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Or maybe RS wasn't good at his job and this was his way of cleaning up the mess he made.
Ricky gave Kubiak what he needed to make a top 10 offense. He gave Wade what he needed to make a top 10 defense. He gave RAC what he needed to make a top 10 defense & last year BO'b had enough to score the 2nd most points in team history.

The problem hasn't been the GM since Casserly. What we've needed & obviously still need is a HC that can parlay a top 10 defense & top 10 offense into a conference championship game.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Ricky gave Kubiak what he needed to make a top 10 offense. He gave Wade what he needed to make a top 10 defense. He gave RAC what he needed to make a top 10 defense & last year BO'b had enough to score the 2nd most points in team history.

The problem hasn't been the GM since Casserly. What we've needed & obviously still need is a HC that can parlay a top 10 defense & top 10 offense into a conference championship game.

Exactly Thunder. This post is spot the bleep on.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Other coaches are adapting. Reid has incorporated concepts from Texas Tech to accommodate Mahomes' skills. Doug Pederson adopted RPO concepts for Carson Wentz. Sean McVay incorporates the college spread concepts for Jared Goff.
I do believe a coach should help his QB adjust to the NFL. At the same time when Watson decides to give the ball to the RB even though the end crashes down, what can O'Brien do?

I like Watson. Not only does he have the physical gifts to be truly special, he's got the drive & intelligence.

But he has to embrace the QB he is & not the QB he wants to be.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Ricky gave Kubiak what he needed to make a top 10 offense. He gave Wade what he needed to make a top 10 defense. He gave RAC what he needed to make a top 10 defense & last year BO'b had enough to score the 2nd most points in team history.

The problem hasn't been the GM since Casserly. What we've needed & obviously still need is a HC that can parlay a top 10 defense & top 10 offense into a conference championship game.
Hey dont be talking bad about Kubiak like that.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If all that's true, what is an OB pick? Fitz, Hoyer, Savage? And now he's the guy making the picks?
You would be correct at this juncture in his time with the Texans......that's what OB has to show for his ability to select a QB to run his system. The results have been zero good. I do believe a Big Ben type of QB would be a dream come true for OB......only he's been horrible at identifying and selecting that QB to be. Do the Texans now hand him the reins to their 2020 NFL Draft and hope he gets it right?

OB has been a 6 year disappointment as HC, even worse as an OC.....yet Cal now feels, his HC/OC, with zero experience as a GM will suddenly have his wow moment with the organization.

Shite......in all reality, if the Texans fire OB which NFL organizations are clamoring for his services as HC, OC and/or GM? Can anyone come up with a reasonable landing spot?
 
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This was mostly due to an amazing defense... Flacco did have an amazing playoff run though in 2012
Disagree, the defense did their part but the "Mile High Miracle" was all Flacco and he was solid for his time with the Ravens. I was still screaming for his head at times but overall in hindsight he was solid.
 
You would be correct at this juncture in his time with the Texans......that's what OB has to show for his ability to select a QB to run his system. The results have been zero good. I do believe a Big Ben type of QB would be a dream come true for OB......only he's been horrible at identifying and selecting that QB to be. Do the Texans now hand him the reins to their 2020 NFL Draft and hope he gets it right?

OB has been a 6 year disappointment as HC, even worse as an OC.....yet Cal now feels, his HC/OC, with zero experience as a GM will suddenly have his wow moment with the organization.

Shite......in all reality, if the Texans fire OB which NFL organizations are clamoring for his services as HC, OC and/or GM? Can anyone come up with a reasonable landing spot?
Browns: Kitchens is a dumpster fire and that locker room is like a dysfunctional family reunion. OB has shown he can bring a locker room together and his infamous yelling at Brady might make ownership think he can handle Mayfield's personality.

Jets: Bell is exactly the type of RB that fits in OBs system and while Darnold may not be exactly what OB wants in a QB there is a chance they may be in the market for a QB. Plus as well as he knows the Pats systems and the Jets from playing them so much there is some history there.

Lions: They are about to go in rebuild mode, again, and a HC that has posted back to back winning seasons and division championships could be very appealing. The NFC north isn't that much better than the AFC south has been last couple of years.

Falcons: Quinn's vaulted defense has not fit this team and, while the win against NO was a balm, his seat is hot. Not to mention you know the Falcons had to notice that whopping the Texans put on them. We credit Watson for that but BoB had a big part in it to. Its just like Miller in Miami making the Texans D look like turtles, you tend to notice a player or coach even more when it's your butt they are kicking.

Jags: Long shot but same with the Falcons after that London game you know they had to have taken notice. Plus being in the Texans division they may think it would give them an advantage to bring in a HC that knows all the other teams and players.

I would add Dallas to this list but frankly I don't see Jones and OB's ego allowing them to be in the same room for more than 5 minutes. Here is what we forget, to us back to back winning seasons and division championships are no big deal because we have gotten spoiled to them just like to Pats fans playoff runs are no big deal. However, there are a lot of teams out there that would love at least a winning season never mind a division championship.

OB came in and since he has been here posted only one losing season and it was the season both his shiny new star QB and his franchise DE went down. 6 years, 5 winning seasons, what 4 maybe division championships and a playoff win. All this with in fighting with the GM and an owner that ran his team like a board room. Yeah if you don't think other teams would have interest then you are letting your bias cloud your judgement.

Listen I'm not making predictions or saying for sure one of these teams would be even in the market for a new HC. Hell at this point it doesn't even sound like Garrett may get fired. You asked for reasonable landing spots and logically all those teams make sense.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I agree with you except the bolded. Oh I fully agree that Watson wasn't the QB that OB wanted and the war room photo keeps getting dragged up but we have to remember that was 3 years ago. Lot of things have changed since then and I think OB is sincere when he talks about liking Watson and how you can win a SB with that kid. Here is a counter to the war room photo, after the Pats win it was Watson that made the speech and gave the game ball to OB and they hugged and generally seemed to like each other. Now that could just be the emotion of a big win but that sort of thing is hard to fake.

I do agree that Watson isn't the type of QB that OB wants, not Watson himself but mobile, duel threat QBs. OB has always favored big arm pocket passers, we saw it with Mallot, Hoyer, Savage, though neither of them had a great arm, and even Osweiler was very much a pocket passer he was just a pocket passer that couldn't pass. What Watson had going for him that has caused OB to try and make it work is that Watson is a true student of the game and wants to win as much as any player to ever play the game. Add to that I think he is very easy to get along with and wants to be coached and there you go.

I mentioned this before but when talking about Jason Garrett and why he keeps going back to the passing game when they are built to run. One person on ESPN says coaches default to what they know in high pressure situations. I think a pocket passer system is what OB's default is and it just doesn't work with this QB and this team. What we see in games like the Jags and the Pats is OB overcoming his default and seeing and using the team as it is built, what we see in the Denver and Ravens game is OB defaulting back to how he wishes the team was built. Sadly I don't know that he will ever be able to overcome his default enough to win it all at least not as a Texan.
I agree with alot of this.

Except the last sentence. Good defenses cause teams to play the way they want them to by taking away the RPO's and keeping DW4 in the pocket. That's the book on how to defend DW4.

The last sentence basically says if the Texans dont win a championship it's all on BOB. You could make that case since BOB runs the org. But that has nothing to do with the default situation you described. DW4 has to get better when teams are keeping him in the pocket. When teams keep him in the pocket he looks confused and seems to lock on to Hopkins far too often.
 
The post he quoted got removed.
I've had that happen and when it does your post gets removed as well. It doesn't change the quoted post to something else entirely. I mean maybe the mods have the ability to do that, I couldn't say, but seems a lot of work for no real reason.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
I've had that happen and when it does your post gets removed as well. It doesn't change the quoted post to something else entirely. I mean maybe the mods have the ability to do that, I couldn't say, but seems a lot of work for no real reason.
I don't understand it either, but somehow his posts are still there. lol

I think he was responding to amazing80.
 
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powda

No Sally, we are not an effective team.
I've had that happen and when it does your post gets removed as well. It doesn't change the quoted post to something else entirely. I mean maybe the mods have the ability to do that, I couldn't say, but seems a lot of work for no real reason.
In a perfect world those threads would be moved to the basement instead of deleted. That said, I didnt get a chance to read it or know how offensive it was...
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This was mostly due to an amazing defense... Flacco did have an amazing playoff run though in 2012
What amazed me the most was he tied a Joe Montana playoff record that year, something like 11 TDs and zero INTs.

And of course, he was playing for a contract, got it, and was never much of anything after that. There's a lesson in there somewhere?. . . :thinking:
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I do believe a coach should help his QB adjust to the NFL. At the same time when Watson decides to give the ball to the RB even though the end crashes down, what can O'Brien do?

I like Watson. Not only does he have the physical gifts to be truly special, he's got the drive & intelligence.

But he has to embrace the QB he is & not the QB he wants to be.
Yep. But, the QB doesn't get to pick the scheme, talent around him, weekly game plan, or play calling (with the exception of limited audibles). That's all on the coaches.

That said, Watson certainly needs to make better decisions out there. Especially his tendency to hold on to the ball too long. Too often we find ourselves screaming at the tv (or is that just me?) when he's dancing around and giving the defense more time to get to him.

And while I certainly understand that making something from nothing is part of his talent, he needs the maturity and experience to understand that sometimes the best option is to throw the ball away and live another day.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
What amazed me the most was he tied a Joe Montana playoff record that year, something like 11 TDs and zero INTs.

And of course, he was playing for a contract, got it, and was never much of anything after that. There's a lesson in there somewhere?. . . :thinking:
Joe just knew how to find the open man. Growing up I never saw a QB that I thought could measure up to Joe. I didn't think a lot of people truly understood the QB's job back then when they'd argue that he wasn't as good as guys like Bradshaw, Elway, or Marino when I was a kid. As time went on, the larger consensus agreed that Joe was the best of all of them later on. Joe didn't care where the ball went. He found his man, and put the ball there to advance the field position. It was all about running the offense from a mental perspective and letting the physical attributes take over through muscle memory once the ball was snapped. Its why I instantly became a fan of Brady. His skill set and the way he approached the game reminded me exactly of Joe Montana.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Joe just knew how to find the open man. Growing up I never saw a QB that I thought could measure up to Joe. I didn't think a lot of people truly understood the QB's job back then when they'd argue that he wasn't as good as guys like Bradshaw, Elway, or Marino when I was a kid. As time went on, the larger consensus agreed that Joe was the best of all of them later on. Joe didn't care where the ball went. He found his man, and put the ball there to advance the field position. It was all about running the offense from a mental perspective and letting the physical attributes take over through muscle memory once the ball was snapped. Its why I instantly became a fan of Brady. His skill set and the way he approached the game reminded me exactly of Joe Montana.
Yep. Joe and Tom were lucky for their raw talents to be paired with two of the greatest head coaches in NFL history. They are easily GOAT 1A & 1B in my book.

I tend to believe that each QB and HC would have won at least one SB without thier counterparts, but partnered with the right person were able to build dynasties.

Funny thing is Tom was at the game where Joe threw "The Catch" in the NFC Championship game. He was 3 yo, iirc. Interesting coincidence, but not surpirsed that Montana was Brady's hero growing up.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Yep. Joe and Tom were lucky for their raw talents to be paired with two of the greatest head coaches in NFL history. They are easily GOAT 1A & 1B in my book.

I tend to believe that each QB and HC would have won at least one SB without thier counterparts, but partnered with the right person were able to build dynasties.

Funny thing is Tom was at the game where Joe threw "The Catch" in the NFC Championship game. He was 3 yo, iirc. Interesting coincidence, but not surpirsed that Montana was Brady's hero growing up.
I enjoyed watching Montana even on the Chiefs. I thought he helped to revitalize a strong team and to make their goals stronger. That was a fun run that season when they also had the Nigerian Nightmare and Derrick Thomas.
 


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