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Texans don’t plan to hire a G.M. in 2020

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I did not enjoy Joe knocking the Oilers out of the playoffs.
ugh. I was still shell-shocked from the year before, tbh.

I was at the game before vs. the Jets (iirc) where Buddy Ryan punched Kevin Gilbride. We didn't see it at the game, but heard all about it on the way home.

I was certain one of those Oilers teams were SB bound. Had all the talent in the world and just couldn't finish games.
 

Earl34

Rookie
Everything you just described are factors that depend on QB play.

So yes, if you think DW4 can bring a championship to this city you would be correct in this post. Where we disagree is whether we think DW4 can do this. Minds may not be changed but history will tell the tale.
We agree. Your mind will not be changed, so history will have to tell the tale. You act like Watson should have been playing DB on the last drive against the Saints or he should have been playing defense in the first quarter against the Broncos. Because in your mind, winning or losing is simply based on Watson. Not a combination of O'Brien, the OL, the WRs or the defense. It's all on Watson.

You have a laser focus on Watson and QB play while ignoring all the other factors that goes into winning a championship. Do you think it was QB play that won that last championship for Manning? What about Trent Dilfer? Was it his sterling QB play that won the Ravens their first championship?

Regardless of the stats or examples I provide, it will never change your mind. So, we can agree to disagree. Since you responded to my post, out of courtesy, I respond to yours. But going forward, I have no interest in this debate with you. Time will tell.
 

Earl34

Rookie
Yet another game for Houston where the defense and the QB shat the bed. Montana was great in that game in the second half
There was one play where Montana rolled out and started approaching the LOS. An Oilers' DB left a WR to run up to Montana. As soon as the DB approached, Montana coolly toss a pass over the DB's head to the wide open WR. To make it worst. I think it was a 3rd down.

To this day, I don't understand how any DB in man coverage would leave a WR 15 yards downfield to prevent a 5 yard QB run. That pass was in slow motion like the North Carolina State dunk against UH. Such bad memories being a Houston sports fan.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
There was one play where Montana rolled out and started approaching the LOS. An Oilers' DB left a WR to run up to Montana. As soon as the DB approached, Montana coolly toss a pass over the DB's head to the wide open WR. To make it worst. I think it was a 3rd down.

To this day, I don't understand how any DB in man coverage would leave a WR 15 yards downfield to prevent a 5 yard QB run. That pass was in slow motion like the North Carolina State dunk against UH. Such bad memories being a Houston sports fan.
That Cotton Bowl game was scarring. Most painful game ever until 41-38
 
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Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The WCO was the offense that always gave Buddy Ryan's 46 defense fits, so not surprising (in hindsight) when Montana carved up that same defense in Houston.

That was a fun season. 1-4 to 12-4. Just sucked the way it ended.

IMO, it's those three years of playoff chokes that ultimately created the apathetic atmosphere among Oilers fans that led to intolerance of Bud's greedy demands (and after decades of his shenanigans) . He had horrible timing, which he admitted later in life was one of his biggest regrets. He realized that he had been played by Drayton McLane.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
The WCO was the offense that always gave Buddy Ryan's 46 defense fits, so not surprising (in hindsight) when Montana carved up that same defense in Houston.

That was a fun season. 1-4 to 12-4. Just sucked the way it ended.

IMO, it's those three years of playoff chokes that ultimately created the apathetic atmosphere among Oilers fans that led to intolerance of Bud's greedy demands (and after decades of his shenanigans) . He had horrible timing, which he admitted later in life was one of his biggest regrets. He realized that he had been played by Drayton McLane.
'90's were a sad time to be a Houston fan
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
We agree. Your mind will not be changed, so history will have to tell the tale. You act like Watson should have been playing DB on the last drive against the Saints or he should have been playing defense in the first quarter against the Broncos. Because in your mind, winning or losing is simply based on Watson. Not a combination of O'Brien, the OL, the WRs or the defense. It's all on Watson.

You have a laser focus on Watson and QB play while ignoring all the other factors that goes into winning a championship. Do you think it was QB play that won that last championship for Manning? What about Trent Dilfer? Was it his sterling QB play that won the Ravens their first championship?

Regardless of the stats or examples I provide, it will never change your mind. So, we can agree to disagree. Since you responded to my post, out of courtesy, I respond to yours. But going forward, I have no interest in this debate with you. Time will tell.
Thanks great post.

I believe I said that the entire team including the coaches didn't show up last game and that was to be expected since the Pats game was their Waterloo
 
We agree. Your mind will not be changed, so history will have to tell the tale. You act like Watson should have been playing DB on the last drive against the Saints or he should have been playing defense in the first quarter against the Broncos. Because in your mind, winning or losing is simply based on Watson. Not a combination of O'Brien, the OL, the WRs or the defense. It's all on Watson.

You have a laser focus on Watson and QB play while ignoring all the other factors that goes into winning a championship. Do you think it was QB play that won that last championship for Manning? What about Trent Dilfer? Was it his sterling QB play that won the Ravens their first championship?

Regardless of the stats or examples I provide, it will never change your mind. So, we can agree to disagree. Since you responded to my post, out of courtesy, I respond to yours. But going forward, I have no interest in this debate with you. Time will tell.
To be fair in many others minds winning and losing is simply based on OB as well and any loss is on hm regardless of any thing else.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
There was one play where Montana rolled out and started approaching the LOS. An Oilers' DB left a WR to run up to Montana. As soon as the DB approached, Montana coolly toss a pass over the DB's head to the wide open WR. To make it worst. I think it was a 3rd down.

To this day, I don't understand how any DB in man coverage would leave a WR 15 yards downfield to prevent a 5 yard QB run. That pass was in slow motion like the North Carolina State dunk against UH. Such bad memories being a Houston sports fan.
I will admit I'm scarred by the past as a Houston sports fan.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
ugh. I was still shell-shocked from the year before, tbh.

I was at the game before vs. the Jets (iirc) where Buddy Ryan punched Kevin Gilbride. We didn't see it at the game, but heard all about it on the way home.

I was certain one of those Oilers teams were SB bound. Had all the talent in the world and just couldn't finish games.

Not sure if you remember, but I went to school with his son. He was one of my best friends. The asshole kids at school jacked with him all year about his dad getting punched. They acted like Buddy dropped him and stomped him out for 30 seconds or something like his dad got annihilated. It was so messed up. Kevin had no idea that Buddy was about to throw that lame ass punch, but he did connect. Lol!
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To be fair in many others minds winning and losing is simply based on OB as well and any loss is on hm regardless of any thing else.
I mean... he's the HC. I can understand if Hopkins is dropping passes, or if Scharping has three false starts, or if Reader has two roughing the passer penalties in the 4th qtr... but those things don't happen.

If you got a guy who can't go a game without a false start... can't get through the first drive, well the HC has to be the one to figure it out & fix it, or find someone who can.

QT being in the doghouse then fumbling on his 1st catch... I'll put that on the player. Keeping him in the game with no more incidents, I'll give BO'b credit for that. Keke had a good game.

38-3

Too many things went wrong for too long. Both sides of the ball. Everybody messed up, which by definition means the HC messed up.
 
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I mean... he's the HC. I can understand if Hopkins is dropping passes, or if Scharping has three false starts, or if Reader has two roughing the passer penalties in the 4th qtr... but those things don't happen.

If you got a guy who can't go a game without a false start... can't get through the first drive, well the HC has to be the one to figure it out & fix it, or find someone who can.

QT being in the doghouse then fumbling on his 1st catch... I'll put that on the player. Keeping him in the game with no more incidents, I'll give BO'b credit for that. Keke had a good game.

38-3

Too many things went wrong for too long. Both sides of the ball. Everybody messed up, which by definition means the HC messed up.
No doubt and no question, you in fact reinforced my point. My point was as much as people here say Steel blames Watson for everything without regards to the situation there are others who blame OB for everything without regards to the situation.

The fact is there is no one on this team that isn’t Jekyll and Hyde. Now you can say that is on OB as the HC and you are correct, ultimately the buck stops with him. However, at the same time could another HC do better? Maybe they could and I’m not opposed to finding out, if for no other reason than just because it would be something new, but this idea some have that a new HC is going to magically fix all this team’s problem is ludicrous.

Many of these same problems were here before BoB and many will be here after he is gone. What actually gives me more hope is that Cal McNair is calling the shots instead of BoB McNair. HCs and QBs get changed every season, very rare an owner does.
 

mws

Waterboy
Maybe they could and I’m not opposed to finding out, if for no other reason than just because it would be something new, but this idea some have that a new HC is going to magically fix all this team’s problem is ludicrous.
If people didn't believe it O'Brien would not even be here. We might still have Capers as HC.

The reality is teams cycle through coaches who bring their own staff & scheme until something clicks & they start winning.

At first it is about getting to the post season. After awhile just being in the playoffs is not good enough. Fans expect to start winning there too.

In 2012 we went 12-4 & won the wildcard game. Here it is 2019 and that is still the best season this franchise has ever had.

As fans we know that we can't change the owner (see Bud Adams) & it's unrealistic to fire the players. So the only real path to change is the HC.

If we don't make it to the AFCCG I'm ready to roll the dice with a new HC even if he ultimately turns out to be worse.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I mean... he's the HC. I can understand if Hopkins is dropping passes, or if Scharping has three false starts, or if Reader has two roughing the passer penalties in the 4th qtr... but those things don't happen.

If you got a guy who can't go a game without a false start... can't get through the first drive, well the HC has to be the one to figure it out & fix it, or find someone who can.

QT being in the doghouse then fumbling on his 1st catch... I'll put that on the player. Keeping him in the game with no more incidents, I'll give BO'b credit for that. Keke had a good game.

38-3

Too many things went wrong for too long. Both sides of the ball. Everybody messed up, which by definition means the HC messed up.
......OB doesn't hold his players accountable. At least that's the way it appears. Pull that players off the field, given him an ear full, sit him on the bench for a series or two and then ask him if he's ready to go back in. When they return to the field.....next play is going their way or at them to check their mindset.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I want as coach who'll let the players know before each and every game that his foot will remain on the throttle for the entire game. If we can beat the opposing team by 10 or 50......it's game on and I'd expect no less from each and every player who steps on the field.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
No doubt and no question, you in fact reinforced my point. My point was as much as people here say Steel blames Watson for everything without regards to the situation there are others who blame OB for everything without regards to the situation.

The fact is there is no one on this team that isn’t Jekyll and Hyde. Now you can say that is on OB as the HC and you are correct, ultimately the buck stops with him. However, at the same time could another HC do better? Maybe they could and I’m not opposed to finding out, if for no other reason than just because it would be something new, but this idea some have that a new HC is going to magically fix all this team’s problem is ludicrous.

Many of these same problems were here before BoB and many will be here after he is gone. What actually gives me more hope is that Cal McNair is calling the shots instead of BoB McNair. HCs and QBs get changed every season, very rare an owner does.
I think alot of people are simply seeing the "same ol' Texans". Good enough to win the division, but not good enough to win a playoff game.

Last season, alot of people were blaming the lack of talent on OL and CB. This offseason (and regular season), we injected alot of talent in those areas... but still same result. I don't blame people searching for answers, in what area needs to be improved. Some believe we need to improve at QB, others believe we need better coaches. I don't see anything wrong with those opinions. Sure, we can replace those people and there's a high likelihood we'll get someone worse to replace them. But I do understand people's frustration that if we simply continue down this course, why should they believe things will get better?

With that being said, alot of people in TT could improve on the delivery of their opinion.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I think alot of people are simply seeing the "same ol' Texans". Good enough to win the division, but not good enough to win a playoff game.

Last season, alot of people were blaming the lack of talent on OL and CB. This offseason (and regular season), we injected alot of talent in those areas... but still same result. I don't blame people searching for answers, in what area needs to be improved. Some believe we need to improve at QB, others believe we need better coaches. I don't see anything wrong with those opinions. Sure, we can replace those people and there's a high likelihood we'll get someone worse to replace them. But I do understand people's frustration that if we simply continue down this course, why should they believe things will get better?

With that being said, alot of people in TT could improve on the delivery of their opinion.

I really don’t understand why some of these great minds don’t see what we see. It’s been coaching. We’re basically seeing the same crap we’ve seen since day one ( Bill O’Brien’s tenure). Shoots he’s still making the same coaching mistakes he made in his first year here.

Like you eluded to, they’re content with only winning the division. And as of right night now that’s not a guarantee. The Titans are looking pretty darn good on all levels. Right now they have established an identity. We look like we’re still trying to figure things out or just to stubborn to realize certain things doesn’t fit.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I really don’t understand why some of these great minds don’t see what we see. It’s been coaching. We’re basically seeing the same crap we’ve seen since day one ( Bill O’Brien’s tenure). Shoots he’s still making the same coaching mistakes he made in his first year here.

Like you eluded to, they’re content with only winning the division. And as of right night now that’s not a guarantee. The Titans are looking pretty darn good on all levels. Right now they have established an identity. We look like we’re still trying to figure things out or just to stubborn to realize certain things doesn’t fit.
DW4 did all he could to give yesterday's game away.
 

mws

Waterboy
DW4 did all he could to give yesterday's game away.
Even with all his terrible play Watson had the Texans up by 10 points with 3:26 left in the game.

If we are going to point fingers how about the defense letting the Titans march down the field in 1:22 to make the score 24-21 with 2:04 left in the game.

Or how about Conley's missed tackle on Davis on the 23 during that drive. Because of Conley's inconsistent play instead of the ball being on the 23 with the clock running at 2:19 Davis goes out of bounds on the 11 & stops the clock at 2:14. Allowing the Titans to score with 2:04 left.

I'm certainly not going to defend Watson's 2 interceptions. You are right that he will have to clean that up if we are to stand a chance in the playoffs.

But we also need to get more pressure on the QB. Our secondary has to start making tackles in crucial situations. We need to get our penalties down.

There is a lot more than just Watson's play that has to change for this team to be a real contender.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Even with all his terrible play Watson had the Texans up by 10 points with 3:26 left in the game.

If we are going to point fingers how about the defense letting the Titans march down the field in 1:22 to make the score 24-21 with 2:04 left in the game.

Or how about Conley's missed tackle on Davis on the 23 during that drive. Because of Conley's inconsistent play instead of the ball being on the 23 with the clock running at 2:19 Davis goes out of bounds on the 11 & stops the clock at 2:14. Allowing the Titans to score with 2:04 left.

I'm certainly not going to defend Watson's 2 interceptions. You are right that he will have to clean that up if we are to stand a chance in the playoffs.

But we also need to get more pressure on the QB. Our secondary has to start making tackles in crucial situations. We need to get our penalties down.

There is a lot more than just Watson's play that has to change for this team to be a real contender.
Turnovers are the biggest determining factor in playoff games.
 

mws

Waterboy
Turnovers are the biggest determining factor in playoff games.
While I agree that turnovers are a huge factor in any game I can show you at least 3 games from just last years playoffs where the team that lost the turnover battle still won the game. It is possible to overcome turning the ball over just like the Texans did on Sunday.

2018 Playoffs

Seahawks 22 - Cowboys 24
Cowboys gave up 1 turnover(interception) & the Seahawks did not turn the ball over. Cowboys won.

Eagles 16 - Bears 15
Eagles gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Bears did not turn the ball over. Eagles won.

Patriots 37 - Chiefs 31
Patriots gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Chiefs did not turn the ball over. Patriots won.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
the defense letting the Titans march down the field in 1:22 to make the score 24-21 with 2:04 left in the game.
^^^^THIS^^^^
The neighbors probably thought "there goes this crazy guy again". I was screaming at the TV and the defense. 82 seconds to score that TD. 82 seconds, that's 1 minute 22 seconds. They had NO timeouts left. Let them burn the time off the clock. Tackle them in bounds, make the tackle with the first guy, clock bleeds out, game over. 11 of us from this MB could have scored a TD against that prevent crud yesterday. Probably not in a minute 22, but we'd have scored!
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Turnovers are the biggest determining factor in playoff games.

There’s more than just turnovers Steel in which could determine the fate of these games. Penalties are a big determining factor as well. Third down conversions and preventing those third down conversions can factor into that equation. Missed tackles, not getting constant pressure on the opposing QB. COACHING plays a big time factor. Preparations is the key to it all.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
^^^^THIS^^^^
The neighbors probably thought "there goes this crazy guy again". I was screaming at the TV and the defense. 82 seconds to score that TD. 82 seconds, that's 1 minute 22 seconds. They had NO timeouts left. Let them burn the time off the clock. Tackle them in bounds, make the tackle with the first guy, clock bleeds out, game over. 11 of us from this MB could have scored a TD against that prevent crud yesterday. Probably not in a minute 22, but we'd have scored!

I was at Bombshells with my boys screaming at the TV too. Lol
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Or how about Conley's missed tackle on Davis on the 23 during that drive.
Fundamentals. Conley should have attacked Davis' outside shoulder, and forced him inside. Watson throwing the ball out of the endzone, rather than sliding, was another brainfart.

There may be teams that can execute the prevent defense. The Texans are not one of these teams.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
^^^^THIS^^^^
The neighbors probably thought "there goes this crazy guy again". I was screaming at the TV and the defense. 82 seconds to score that TD. 82 seconds, that's 1 minute 22 seconds. They had NO timeouts left. Let them burn the time off the clock. Tackle them in bounds, make the tackle with the first guy, clock bleeds out, game over. 11 of us from this MB could have scored a TD against that prevent crud yesterday. Probably not in a minute 22, but we'd have scored!
Completely agree with your premise, however... Which 11? Pick your team, I would pay very good money to see 11 members of this forum try and score against the Texans.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
Completely agree with your premise, however... Which 11? Pick your team, I would pay very good money to see 11 members of this forum try and score against the Texans.
Ok, my idea so I'm gonna be coach. @steelbtexan will be QB and I will remind him to get out of bounds to stop the clock. It's my job to be aware of in game situations. @Thorn will be our trainer. No doubt we will have several of the 11 injured during this drive and Thorn will probably have the perfect remedy.
You guys can pick your position...
 

Earl34

Rookie
While I agree that turnovers are a huge factor in any game I can show you at least 3 games from just last years playoffs where the team that lost the turnover battle still won the game. It is possible to overcome turning the ball over just like the Texans did on Sunday.

2018 Playoffs

Seahawks 22 - Cowboys 24
Cowboys gave up 1 turnover(interception) & the Seahawks did not turn the ball over. Cowboys won.

Eagles 16 - Bears 15
Eagles gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Bears did not turn the ball over. Eagles won.

Patriots 37 - Chiefs 31
Patriots gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Chiefs did not turn the ball over. Patriots won.
Here is a little known stat. In the Patriots last three Super Bowl wins, Brady has thrown as many or more INTs than the losing QB.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
Ok, my idea so I'm gonna be coach. @steelbtexan will be QB and I will remind him to get out of bounds to stop the clock. It's my job to be aware of in game situations. @Thorn will be our trainer. No doubt we will have several of the 11 injured during this drive and Thorn will probably have the perfect remedy.
You guys can pick your position...
You are never going to pass the drug test...
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
There’s more than just turnovers Steel in which could determine the fate of these games. Penalties are a big determining factor as well. Third down conversions and preventing those third down conversions can factor into that equation. Missed tackles, not getting constant pressure on the opposing QB. COACHING plays a big time factor. Preparations is the key to it all.
Go look at +/- in turnovers in playoff games and get back with me about the win percentages of the teams that have a positive +/-.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
While I agree that turnovers are a huge factor in any game I can show you at least 3 games from just last years playoffs where the team that lost the turnover battle still won the game. It is possible to overcome turning the ball over just like the Texans did on Sunday.

2018 Playoffs

Seahawks 22 - Cowboys 24
Cowboys gave up 1 turnover(interception) & the Seahawks did not turn the ball over. Cowboys won.

Eagles 16 - Bears 15
Eagles gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Bears did not turn the ball over. Eagles won.

Patriots 37 - Chiefs 31
Patriots gave up 2 turnovers (2 interceptions) & the Chiefs did not turn the ball over. Patriots won.
Do you know the definition of the word aberation.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Go look at +/- in turnovers in playoff games and get back with me about the win percentages of the teams that have a positive +/-.

How about posting a link backing your stance up. If not please don’t tell me to go look at this and that.

Again it’s more than just turnovers in which determines the outcome of these games.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
One of my pet-peeves in regards to OB.......it seems like every time his offense finds itself in a 2nd and 15+ yards, he just assumes the position and gives up on the series with a quick 3 and out b/c everyone n the NFL seems to know that he's more than likely going to hit his interior OL with a running play into their backs and settle for putting the defense back on the field.

Dammmmit OB!!!!! You have Watson and all those weapons and you're afraid to use them to get those long 1st downs.

This week, you will have your full compliment of healthy receivers (Hopkins, Fuller, Stills and Coutee), your full compliment of healthy TE's (Fells, Aikens and Thomas) and a complete stable of RB's (Hyde and Johnson) to work out of any long and first situations. Pedal to the metal OB.......pedal to the metal for a full 60 minutes. Let's see what happens.
 

zshawn10

All Pro
The Texans want Nick Caserio, the might have to lock up with whatever teams might want to hire Josh McDaniels. Reports have Caserio’s contract expiring after the draft.
— patrick (@PatDStat) December 30, 2019

Whenever this season ends for the #Patriots, expect a lot of change. From Caserio to McDaniels to the QB to guys like McCourty and Van Noy…a lot on the table.
— Michael Giardi (@MikeGiardi) December 30, 2019
 


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