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Texans after Garcia? (Bucs sign Garcia)

Lucky said:
Precedent? Have you been following the Texans very long? Take a little time and read this interview with McNair. I think you can get a feel for who he is.
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this tattoo stuff is beyond ridiculous and self-evidently NOT what's governing (or even figuring heavily into) our choice of players. it's just the misguided ramblings of a guy (mcNair) who ought not be talking to the press about such things.

As to Garcia's wife/girlfriend--what, is she an ex-Playbody model or something? Unless she's out and out in the pornography business (as opposed to the "glamour" business) I doubt the Texans or McNair care one way or the other.
 
hollywood_texan said:
This McNair quote is what really concerns me about the Texans.

From Lucky's post:

McNair: No. Not at all. We believe strongly that character counts, and it counts in your performance, and it counts when the going gets close, because to have character you have to be disciplined, and if you are disciplined, then under pressure you still perform, and you won't make that mental error. Those who are undisciplined are the ones who tend to break down. I think it shows on the playing field, just as it does off the field.


Being a Bible thumper or a Dirt Bag has nothing to do if you can do certain things in life, for example, run a business, dunk a basketball, pass a test, and so on. If McNair thinks someone is going to make less mistakes because they are a better person, he is really mistaken. The two have nothing to do with one another.

This is getting off topic from the thread, but I think the biggest problem the Texans have is McNair and these stupid rules or logic ideas he has. Which in turns translates into the Carr situation. Applying the quote above to Carr, you can totally understand why Carr will be the Texans QB for his entire career, or has lasted as long as he has.

To get back on topic, how is Garcia a better person than Carr? He isn't. Therefore, Carr is a better a player than Garcia. Which is the logic according to McNair and why the Texans won't land Garcia, for other reasons as well. Unless, Kubiak is getting McNair to stop putting his influence in personnel using logic that doesn't work.

Honestly, though I don't know if Garica is really such a good idea, but it should be judged what happens on the field.

Gezzzz.....
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Second the motion.

To believe that Carr can be good because he's "nice" is way beyond dumb.

I am terrified to think that thought of this kind gets anywhere near the team's decision making. If it does it explains a good deal about the Texans' miserable showing the last 5 years.
 
Lucky said:
Precedent? Have you been following the Texans very long? Take a little time and read this interview with McNair. I think you can get a feel for who he is.
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Yeah. Of course there are sorta exceptions...

Babin has a few tattoos that draw attention to himself.

Or you know, if you have no defensive tackles and have to fill in....

link

April 21, 2006

OLATHE, Kan. (AP) -A misdemeanor charge of domestic battery against Kansas City Chiefs defensive lineman Lional Dalton was dismissed.

Dalton was scheduled to go on trial Friday, but the case was dismissed because the alleged victim, Dalton's wife, Kimberly, failed to appear for the trial. It was the second time she had not shown up, said Assistant District Attorney Jacqie Spradling.

Dalton was accused of grabbing his wife's hair and pulling her down early on Nov. 25 when she visited him for Thanksgiving. He had pleaded not guilty.
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Nighthawk said:
I am terrified to think that thought of this kind gets anywhere near the team's decision making. If it does it explains a good deal about the Texans' miserable showing the last 5 years.
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There's a balance that has to be struck.

Between being too interested in niiiice and character as judged by an oldish rich white guy or being a bunch of thugs that get derailed or undisciplined guys who can't function well as a team.

It's a continuum--maybe you don't want a bunch of boy scouts in a game of controlled violence, but you can't go completely the other way either. Hard line to draw.
 
if and i do mean IF we are able to get garcia this poses a very good arrangement for us and jeff...he'll be the starter on a franchise while not having the greatest of talent isn't as bad as i think some would lead everyone to believe...garcia's attitude and temper might be what the o-line needs to get a fire under their butts...and his expectations of catching every ball might be good for some of the younger receivers on this squad who have been very lucky with carr not be critized for dropping balls from time to time
 
Garcia is our best option on the market. There is no way Carr can play here next season. It would remind me of the movie the replacements, when that starter comes back that nobody likes.
 
i agree there is no way carr can come back to this team but that's only because of the comments made by d-rob...if the players feel the same way he does then there is no reason to bring him back
 
Texans_Chick said:
There's a balance that has to be struck.

Between being too interested in niiiice and character as judged by an oldish rich white guy or being a bunch of thugs that get derailed or undisciplined guys who can't function well as a team.

It's a continuum--maybe you don't want a bunch of boy scouts in a game of controlled violence, but you can't go completely the other way either. Hard line to draw.
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Thank you TC. I was baffled in the other thread about Dunta's Cold Pizza comments by the people who read entire pages of interesting things into what Robinson said. Now I'm baffled here by people reading entire pages of exaggerated standards into a Bob McNair quote. Folks, the comments he made aren't extreme at all and they're the kind of nice, blah-blah comments most owners would make when asked a question like that. (Even if they don't mean it.) For proof, visit this ESPN show transcript and ask yourself whether Bill Walsh was also a moron for saying character matters. (His comment: "All it takes is one or two players who fail to conform to society on a ball club, and it affects everybody. So we can't tolerate that much.")

Looking at TC's examples: Is McNair such a hardliner that he passed on Dalton, or the oh-so-inky Babin? (I believe Travis J. has some considerable ink too, but I could be wrong on that. Just a vague recollection.)

I think someone made a joke about Jeff Garcia's wife's website and somehow it spun into a series of bizarre inferences about "character" (however you define it) as being why Bob McNair would prefer a morally-superior scrub over a more talented player--a TOTALLY unsupported allegation. Don't mistake bad football management for management by morality.

"Character" didn't stop this team from keeping Marcus Coleman, the walking breathalyzer, long after his problems emerged. "Character" didn't keep Victor Riley from his ignominious appearance in Houston. And for the love of all that's holy, "character" doggone sure didn't keep this team from throwing stupid money/picks for Philip Buchanon, despite mountains of questionable "character" issues in his then-brief NFL career.

So enough on that. Please.

Regarding Garcia, yup he's old, and I still think his upside is far greater than Plummer's. This guy was a backup who took his wounded team into the playoffs only a couple of months ago. Plummer, on the contrary, is a guy who BECAME a backup to a rookie because he just wasn't good enough to keep it going.

I think he'd rather return to California, but if the Texans can pry him down here, it'd be a good move.
 
Hervoyel said:
This may come as a shock to you but replacing 80% of our roster with better players wouldn't "put us over the top". We're a long way from even seeing the top (it's up there if you look real hard and if the clouds don't cover it). What we need is a "caretaker" QB who can hold the job down for a year or two, play at a reasonably high level (higher than anything David's come close to in 5 years at least), and keep the seat warm while a young QB develops behind him.

It should be a blinding flash of the obvious that Jeff Garcia is literally a perfect answer to that need.

He is old but he's also in amazing shape and he still clearly loves the game and the competition (even after stints in Cleveland and Detroit if you can believe that). Find me a 37 year old player at any position who still plays like Garcia did last year and I'll show you a guy I want on my team.
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Excellent post. Not only that but maybe this team needs someone that is passionate and a vet that can lead.
 
keyfro said:
if and i do mean IF we are able to get garcia this poses a very good arrangement for us and jeff...he'll be the starter on a franchise while not having the greatest of talent isn't as bad as i think some would lead everyone to believe...garcia's attitude and temper might be what the o-line needs to get a fire under their butts...and his expectations of catching every ball might be good for some of the younger receivers on this squad who have been very lucky with carr not be critized for dropping balls from time to time
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Agree with that. Garcia looks like a guy who almost always performs well above his physical gifts and he's unlikely to put up with any BS from linemen or receivers or anybody else. AND he wants to win every time.

So he's the opposite of Carr, a driven, over-achieving, outspoken QB who in the short term could be an answer for the Texans.

Likely he'll go elsewhere.
 
TexanExile said:
Thank you TC. I was baffled in the other thread about Dunta's Cold Pizza comments by the people who read entire pages of interesting things into what Robinson said. Now I'm baffled here by people reading entire pages of exaggerated standards into a Bob McNair quote. Folks, the comments he made aren't extreme at all and they're the kind of nice, blah-blah comments most owners would make when asked a question like that. (Even if they don't mean it.) For proof, visit this ESPN show transcript and ask yourself whether Bill Walsh was also a moron for saying character matters. (His comment: "All it takes is one or two players who fail to conform to society on a ball club, and it affects everybody. So we can't tolerate that much.")

Looking at TC's examples: Is McNair such a hardliner that he passed on Dalton, or the oh-so-inky Babin? (I believe Travis J. has some considerable ink too, but I could be wrong on that. Just a vague recollection.)

I think someone made a joke about Jeff Garcia's wife's website and somehow it spun into a series of bizarre inferences about "character" (however you define it) as being why Bob McNair would prefer a morally-superior scrub over a more talented player--a TOTALLY unsupported allegation. Don't mistake bad football management for management by morality.

"Character" didn't stop this team from keeping Marcus Coleman, the walking breathalyzer, long after his problems emerged. "Character" didn't keep Victor Riley from his ignominious appearance in Houston. And for the love of all that's holy, "character" doggone sure didn't keep this team from throwing stupid money/picks for Philip Buchanon, despite mountains of questionable "character" issues in his then-brief NFL career.

So enough on that. Please.

Regarding Garcia, yup he's old, and I still think his upside is far greater than Plummer's. This guy was a backup who took his wounded team into the playoffs only a couple of months ago. Plummer, on the contrary, is a guy who BECAME a backup to a rookie because he just wasn't good enough to keep it going.

I think he'd rather return to California, but if the Texans can pry him down here, it'd be a good move.
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Well said! Rep coming your way.

Another poster talked about how McNair was basically just after "Christian", moral players but I really don't believe that to totally be the case. The fact is McNair wants to win, but McNair also doesn't want the "me" kind of player to detract from the team mentality. If that means that kind of person is a Christian, then so be it. But I have found many team players that are not Christians. I have found many good, moral people that are not Christians. So to label McNair as simply wanting good Christian guys on his roster is asinine. I truly believe we help ourselves out right now by getting character guys as often as we can, just in case we end up with a guy with all the talent in the world but isn't a "character" guy. Think of the Super Bowl Cowboys. Other than Michael Irvin, and I could be totally wrong so don't flame me, but I can't think of another "bad" guy on their team. They were full of character guys and could balance out a "bad boy" like Michael Irvin.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Think of the Super Bowl Cowboys. Other than Michael Irvin, ... I can't think of another "bad" guy on their team. They were full of character guys and could balance out a "bad boy" like Michael Irvin.
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Signed,

Leon Lett
Erik Williams
and Nate Newton
 
Reddevil63 said:
I see your topless Garcia and raise you his wifey


230px-Carmella_DeCesare.jpg
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holy ............:bowdown: :love:
 
hollywood_texan said:
This McNair quote is what really concerns me about the Texans.

From Lucky's post:

McNair: No. Not at all. We believe strongly that character counts, and it counts in your performance, and it counts when the going gets close, because to have character you have to be disciplined, and if you are disciplined, then under pressure you still perform, and you won't make that mental error. Those who are undisciplined are the ones who tend to break down. I think it shows on the playing field, just as it does off the field.


Being a Bible thumper or a Dirt Bag has nothing to do if you can do certain things in life, for example, run a business, dunk a basketball, pass a test, and so on. If McNair thinks someone is going to make less mistakes because they are a better person, he is really mistaken. The two have nothing to do with one another.

This is getting off topic from the thread, but I think the biggest problem the Texans have is McNair and these stupid rules or logic ideas he has. Which in turns translates into the Carr situation. Applying the quote above to Carr, you can totally understand why Carr will be the Texans QB for his entire career, or has lasted as long as he has.

To get back on topic, how is Garcia a better person than Carr? He isn't. Therefore, Carr is a better a player than Garcia. Which is the logic according to McNair and why the Texans won't land Garcia, for other reasons as well. Unless, Kubiak is getting McNair to stop putting his influence in personnel using logic that doesn't work.

Honestly, though I don't know if Garica is really such a good idea, but it should be judged what happens on the field.

Gezzzz.....
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:wow:

If Mcnair said that then.....be afraid Texan fans be very afraid.....Mcnair let your boys figure who has talent and who doesn't that is what they are paid to do.
 
aj. said:
Signed,

Leon Lett
Erik Williams
and Nate Newton
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Cool, I'm kind of young so don't really remember what I speak of. How about the Super Bowl Patriots? Top to bottom, a quality, character squad.
 
SamuraiSword said:
:wow:

If Mcnair said that then.....be afraid Texan fans be very afraid.....Mcnair let your boys figure who has talent and who doesn't that is what they are paid to do.
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Is this sarcasm? I personally do not understand what's wrong with this quote? Let's get guys who aren't all about themselves and work hard. Demeco Ryans anyone?
 
personally i think everyone needs to chill on the whole character issue...we are talking about players not their wives and not their tattoos...what the person looks like and his wife should have no basis on whether or not a guy is a good fit for this franchise...some of ya'll just need to take a chill pill and worry more about whose playing LT for us
 
I don't know about you, but I'd rather look at Carmella than Jeff G.

I'm beginning to really hate free agency because all it means is that you are going to overpay someone. Getting into a bidding war for a 37 year old QB doesn't seem all that cool to me ... despite Carmella <In Butters' Voice> Sweet Jesus....
 
aj. said:
despite Carmella <In Butters' Voice> Sweet Jesus....
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No need to drag Leopold Scotch into this. :)

The dollars out there are always crazy in FA. FA is only one part of talent and acquisition, the other two are the draft and development of current personnel. Whether it is this year or twenty down the road if there are two places I want my team to shine it is with their college scouting and in player development. To me FA is much like St. Patty's day, amateur night.
 
Bring on Jeff Garcia to lead this team for the next year - year and a half and let the rookie QB who we will draft learn under his wing. Garcia is a proven leader, and is just what we need. In my mind, he is so much better of a choice than Jake Plummer.
 
Garcia didn't he play in Cleveland where I believe he was less than bad, behind a bad o-line. And in Philly pretty good behind a pretty good o-line. JFMPOV
 
TexasAggie said:
Garcia didn't he play in Cleveland where I believe he was less than bad, behind a bad o-line. And in Philly pretty good behind a pretty good o-line. JFMPOV
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Depends on your definition of less than bad and what the alternatives are. Garcia in Cleveland still had more TD's than INT's and had a good number of long balls--without an OL or much of a receiving corps.
 
aj. said:
Signed,

Leon Lett
Erik Williams
and Nate Newton
Click to expand...

There were a few but there were also a ton of "leader" type guys with Aikman, Emmitt, Norton, Jr and a host of others. Its the NFL and I used to have this argument with people all the time. There was a Browns team during this time that had like 11 guys busted for drugs, etc but they sucked so noone cared. When a team gets to the mountain top the cream..on both sides..always rise to the top..lol.
 
Garcia was a bust in Detroit and Cleveland. Better to spend the free agent money on an offensive lineman. Steinbach is already off the market.
 
Spled said:
Garcia was a bust in Detroit and Cleveland. Better to spend the free agent money on an offensive lineman. Steinbach is already off the market.
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Gandy's still out there. He'd be a tremendous improvement and with Buffalo's signings yesterday, doesn't look like he'll be back there.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Check out his stats when he was in Cleveland and think about how much he was paid. Compared to what we have had the last five years, Garcia would have been considered an uber value. JFMPOVGHJDSKWIWK

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/146325
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just from my point of view (jfmpov). Until last year DC's contract was set in 2002. I am not in your futile debate of keep Carr dump Carr. It is not my job. I want a winning team. So it is the FO and Coaches job to deliver that for us.

Sure we can speculate on what we think should happen and who should be cut, traded and who we should get in to make this team great. But that is all we can do is speculate.

It is frustrating for those of us that just want to get an update on what really is going on instead of seeing all this crap on the message boards. SYCKTRRCOMA
 
TexasAggie said:
It is frustrating for those of us that just want to get an update on what really is going on instead of seeing all this crap on the message boards. SYCKTRRCOMA
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Not just this message board, but in the words of Dunta, Moulds and the FO. It is painfully obvious to some what is going on, for others it is a brand new day.
 
Bucs close to signing Garcia, per the Tampa Tribune.

Less than 24 hours after they learned that Plummer would rather retire than come play quarterback for them, the Bucs appeared to be on the verge late Friday of signing Eagles free agent signal caller Jeff Garcia.

A source with knowledge of the situation said a deal that would bring Garcia to Tampa would probably happen quickly, perhaps as soon as today.

Garcia spent most of Friday visiting with the Oakland Raiders but after word leaked that the Bucs trade for Plummer had been nullified, Garcia cut short his visit with the Raiders and turned his attention to Tampa Bay.

Garcia’s agent, Steve Baker, would only say late Friday that Garcia “is very interested in the Bucs, but others were speaking in more affirmative tones.

One NFL source with knowledge of the situation said the feeling inside the Raiders camp after Garcia left was that Garcia was headed to Tampa to play for Jon Gruden.
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From ProFootballTalk

GARCIA VISITING BUCS ON SATURDAY

Our friends at PewterReport.com, who continue to put the Tampa-area newspapers to shame, report that quarterback Jeff Garcia will visit the Buccaneers on Saturday.

Garcia has thrice before spurned opportunities to play in Tampa, and per PewterReport.com the snag has always been the cap room, or lack thereof, in Tampa.

Armed with $24 million in shopping money, salary isn't an issue this time around.

Stay tuned.
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I just heard a quick sound bite on ESPN. It sounds like a deal is close to getting done with Tampa. I am not too upset about missing out on a 37 year old QB.
 
BUCS EXPECTED TO ANNOUNCE SIGNING OF GARCIA

Our friends and PewterReport.com and WDAE 620 tell us that the Buccaneers are holding a press conference at 1:00 p.m.

It's widely believed that the purpose of the presser is to announce the signing of quarterback Jeff Garcia. The team has characterized the event as "big", per PewterReport.com.

Stay tuned.
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They had more money anyways...
 
yep, profootballtalk.com is quoting Adam Schefter with NFL.com that it should be anounced already.

I guess we go back to looking at Plummer?
 
raytex said:
Plummer can't say F U to any team. He's not that good.
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Apparently by saying he wasnt going to play in Tampa, he basically told them "F U"...Everybody is riding the Garcia bandwagon a little bit too much...he was on a really good team in Philly....Just look what he did when he was on a bad team(Cleveland, Detroit)....Hopefully it turns out well for him and the Bucs, definately an upgrade over Gradkowski(sp) and the other guy they started at the end of the year
 
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