They both had better olines as well before OB started dismantling it.
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- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
Maybe because Hoyer targeted Hopkins 192 times? Maybe the year Fitz was here, they totally ignored the TEs in the passing game and targeted Andre Johnson 146 time and Hopkins 127 times.
Maybe Watson should have been targeting Hopkins even more? Would you have been okay with Watson targeting Hopkins 192 times to make the offense run better?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
OK, this is the last one. I'm tired of playing your fact checker, because you should really fact check your own stuff before posting something.
------- yards/drive -- points/drive -- plays/drive -- TOP/drive
2014 - 29.76 -------- 1.78 ---------- 5.86 ---------- 2:39
2015 - 28.53 -------- 1.65 ---------- 5.83 ---------- 2:29
2018 - 32.70 -------- 2.09 ---------- 6.00 ---------- 2:44
2019 - 34.63 -------- 2.23 ---------- 6.32 ---------- 2:55
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/overall-drive-statsoff/2019
The OL was getting old by the time BOB took over. Myers/ W. Smith retired soon after Kubiak left. Briesel walked in FA and RS let Winson walk. All of this happened within 2 yrs of BOB becoming HC. With this said, God how I miss Alex Gibbs.
If the offense looked like it did then and not like it did the last 7 games then certainly yes.
Just to get this OL fix. I would hire Mike Munchak as HC.
I could get totally on board with this.
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I don't hate you. I just see that there is room for improvement in regards to DW4. How much is debatable. I see a lot of what you are talking about when it comes to DW4 but I think with time and patience a lot of his weaknesses can be overcome. Perhaps he will never overcome some of his worst weaknesses but I think if his strengths are utilized his weaknesses won't be quite as big a deal.
DW4 is young so there is still plenty of time for him to improve. However if he does not get better coaching and talent around him he will for sure fall far short of the player many experts feel he can be.
To sum this up, I feel DW4 is at this time an avg QB but his case has not yet been made. I withhold my judgement at this time. I would like to see better coaching from BO'b or any other head coach or actual proven O-coordinator and QB coach before I am ready to write him off as nothing more than a run of the mill QB.
I know for you DW4 will never be anything but avg and I can understand where you are coming from. There is plenty of evidence at this time to back your assertion. I myself feel that due to certain circumstances he has not lived up to his great potential.
TxnsJuggernaut1
Veteran
I could as well.
Just like O'Brien throwing things out there to see what stucks.
I have no idea who taught Shanahan. He coached on a wide variety of teams. I just know that when he was with the 49ers Siefert was the HC & Walsh was the HC of Stanford.
Shanahan's coaching history.
Oklahoma
Offensive assistant (1975)
Northern Arizona
Running backs (1976–1977)
Eastern Illinois
Offensive coordinator (1978)
Minnesota
Offensive coordinator (1979)
Florida
Offensive coordinator (1980–1983)
Denver Broncos
Wide receivers coach (1984)
Offensive coordinator (1985–1987)
Los Angeles Raiders
Head coach (1988–1989)
Denver Broncos
Quarterbacks (1989–1990)
Offensive coordinator (1991)
San Francisco 49ers
Offensive coordinator/Quarterbacks (1992–1993)
Offensive coordinator (1994)
Denver Broncos
Head coach (1995–2008)
Hell as far as I know Walsh could have spent hours talking QB play with Billy O just as well as Shanahan.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Spot on.
Ryan Fitzpatrick 2014
Duane Brown 29
Ben Jones 25
Chris Myers 33
Brandon Brooks 25
Derek Newton 27 - at this stage, Newton was better than any guy O'Brien had put at RT (how sad)
Arian Foster 28
7th ranked scoring defense
Brian Hoyer 2015
Duane Brown 30
Ben Jones
Brandon Brooks
Newton
Aboushi was better than XSF, even Jeff Adams was (how sad)
7th ranked scoring defense,
3rd ranked defense in yardage
Duane Brown 29
Ben Jones 25
Chris Myers 33
Brandon Brooks 25
Derek Newton 27 - at this stage, Newton was better than any guy O'Brien had put at RT (how sad)
Arian Foster 28
7th ranked scoring defense
Brian Hoyer 2015
Duane Brown 30
Ben Jones
Brandon Brooks
Newton
Aboushi was better than XSF, even Jeff Adams was (how sad)
7th ranked scoring defense,
3rd ranked defense in yardage
"The offense implemented by Shanahan and others in the tree grew out of the West Coast Offense of Bill Walsh in the 1980s and 1990s. The passing offense and its concepts are still very much influenced by Walsh. From Walsh playbooks in the 1980s to Shanahan playbooks in the late 2010s, the passing game is still very much in line with its historical roots.
But schemes never stay the same, and the best coaches learn and adapt and implement new wrinkles all the time... "
https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/9/12/21409930/breaking-down-the-shanahan-coaching-tree-and-offense
Good post. If anything, besides the obvious difference between the defense during the Fitz/Hoyer years and Watson would be the experience factor. It appears OB inherited a veteran laden team that didn't require development or needing to be "coached up". Again, if someone cannot understand the difference, it's on them.
Not really.
2014 - 14th in points scored, 17th in yards gained, Average drive: 28.2 yards
2015 - 21st in points scored, 19th in yards gained, Average drive: 27.3 yards
2018 - 11th in point scored, 15th in yards gained, average drive: 31.1 yards
2019 - 14th in point scored, 13th in yards gained, average drive: 34.3 yards
This year, 2 games against top teams cannot be a good sample size (though they are averaging 34.9 yards per drive).
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
OB's biggest problem, his fear of hiring competent veteran coordinators and position coaches to his staff. OB built his staff in a manner that screams, he's too insecure in his position to have coaches on his staff that could easily be chosen to replace him. Crennel was a fluke b/c OB never hired him....the organization did. Crennel carried a big stick within the organization until RS exited. OB quickly made his presence felt as the leader and the guy who would be making the calls even with Gaine as the temporary GM.
OB had/has no desire to hire veteran coaches who may challenge his way of doing things.....especially when things are coming off the tracks. So OB did what any insecure person does when they find themselves sitting at the top, they hire "Yes Men" to constantly pat him on the back or find excuses for him when things are not going as expected. Now that he is the most powerful person in the Texans organization outside of the McNair's....who would truly approach him with any "real" and/or well deserved critiques?
This team has far too much talent to show this poorly against 2 of the best teams in the NFL. If this team remained exactly as is and OB was dropped and Bill Parcels was handed the reins....he'd have the team turned around by game nine.
Bottom line....OB needs to be sent packing and the team must get a mentor for the McNair's. My pick has always been Bill Polian for this job. His NFL track record should command the McNair's respect as someone who could guide them to a long term understanding as to how much owners should be involved with the actual building of a successful organization.
OB had/has no desire to hire veteran coaches who may challenge his way of doing things.....especially when things are coming off the tracks. So OB did what any insecure person does when they find themselves sitting at the top, they hire "Yes Men" to constantly pat him on the back or find excuses for him when things are not going as expected. Now that he is the most powerful person in the Texans organization outside of the McNair's....who would truly approach him with any "real" and/or well deserved critiques?
This team has far too much talent to show this poorly against 2 of the best teams in the NFL. If this team remained exactly as is and OB was dropped and Bill Parcels was handed the reins....he'd have the team turned around by game nine.
Bottom line....OB needs to be sent packing and the team must get a mentor for the McNair's. My pick has always been Bill Polian for this job. His NFL track record should command the McNair's respect as someone who could guide them to a long term understanding as to how much owners should be involved with the actual building of a successful organization.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
What exactly has OB fixed or modified over those 3-4 years?
Yep. And for his no. 3 in charge he's got a glorified youth counselor that is ill-equipped to takeover the leadership of an NFL franchise. Yet another example of hiring someone that will never be a threat to his jobs.
Firing O'Brien would leave them with absolutely nobody qualified to even begin the hiring process for a new GM and then HC (or vice versa with the way the Texans have historically operated).
Cal would have to do something that he's never done before, so nothing short of monumental collapse will be sure to keep O'Brien around for a while.
Mangler
Toro de España
You mean, besides nothing?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Not a darn thing. What he did iwss make things even worse. He’s completely destroyed the defense. He’s slowly destroying Watson’s young career. He’s killing the organization financially.
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He brought in the male cheerleader.
Mangler
Toro de España
The Joel Osteen of the NFL.He brought in the male cheerleader.
#crook
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Dammmmmm.....that suit makes him look like Dr Youz Feelgood of the Saints!!!!
austins23
Hall of Fame
Oh never mind…..Momma always said, "if you can't say something nice about someone...…"
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Honestly I don’t know why you guys keep trying to have legit conversations with idiocy like that.
Oh man, how bad is it when you wouldn’t mind having a Derek Newton in there?
They gave him a 5 yr $26.5M contract to begin 2015, didn't they?
Some things are unfixable
Mangler
Toro de España
The GM and coaching staff, for example.
Easy to fix, let the HC play QB to run his system, and let the GM be the waterboy/personal trainer to said QB to whip him into shape.
True and the QB.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Again.....OB's history shows very clearly he burns through QB's and isn't very successful with his offense. Watson has only had one HC, so it's very clear he hasn't burned through HC's but has managed to save a very poor HC/OC's job with his play while overcoming a very poor offensive plan. This is based solely on Watson's W-L record when he has started.
That W/L record will be changing soon
7 bad games and counting.
Are you part of the everything that's wrong with the offense is because of BOB crowd? DW4's the only avg QB BOB's had and he's gotten as much out of the crap QB's RS provided him as he has out of DW4, who RS also provided him.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
You do realize that the only constant will be what Watson has done for OB. What OB has accomplished as the GM hasn't fix anything.....actually took some big steps backwards and that's for 2020. It's going to get desperately worse come 2021. The McNair's may be watching a drowning man begin to rob Peter to pay Paul in an effort to try to save his job.....will they throw him a rope or an anchor when he begins to trade off his 2022 draft capital? 6 years 2 games and counting.
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Steelb needs somebody to divert some of the blames/pressures from/off of the HC/GM.
This is only BOB's 1st yr as GM, it's going to be kinda hard to fix all of those yrs of mismanagement in 1 yr. I liked most of the trades BOB's made. I dont like his Mercilus/N. Martin/Cunningham/DW4 re-signings. They're avg/slightly above avg players that are being grossly overpaid.
7 bad games and counting.
Burning through all the cap space that have been saved for years in one swift spell and you want to see a second year? LOL. There won't be much left to spend anyway, certainly not enough to improve the roster.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
He isn't gonna fix anything come 2021 either. He's dug himself a big ugly hole and will have zero maneuverability when the cap shrinks, he's well over it and has to start dumping contracts while having limited draft resources to plug holes. Let's all sit back and see if OB "The Brain" can overcome his own obstacles. 6 years 2 games and the "Titexans" is taking on water fast.
Like I've been saying the DW4 contract is an albatross and it's going to eventaully hang BOB which should make this MB happy.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
There are far too many bad/under-performing high-priced contracts on this roster to think Watson's is the albatross.
Texansballer74
The Marine
NVM, I refuse to go there lol.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
If you're the GM & HC, it's actually quite easy to fix an "unfixable" QB. Release him and definitely do not extend him. If the QB was a problem, BOB could have fixed that a long time ago. They identified quickly that Os was "unfixable", so they got rid of him the next season.
With the contract the McNair's just signed DW4 too there's no way this will ever happen. However this sealed BOB's fate, so that should make you happy.