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State of the O-line

badboy

Hall of Fame
There’s no such thing as a better deal when it comes to career backs that aren’t that good.
? Read post several times and remain confused. Why would there not be a better deal than a not good career back.
Anywho, if Kele could be part of a trade package for Chris Jones or Jamal Adams that would be better than trading for Freeman. The deadline is 14th for CJ and Yannick as tagged.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Can I get a DB instead of a RB in that swap ?
You probably aren't getting a starter. Maybe if you're lucky a guy like Conley who was drafted by another GM and the new GM wants his guys. I could actually see a team like the Cowboys trading a guy like Jordan Lewis for Kelemte.

Does Tampa have any extra DB's that can play. I would love to get Evans to pair with Reid at Safety.
 
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badboy

Hall of Fame
You probably aren't getting a starter. Maybe if you're lucky a guy like Conley who was drafted by another GM and the new GM wants his guys. I could actually see a team like the Cowboys trading a guy like Jordan Lewis for Kelemte.

Does Tampa have any extra DB's that can play. I would love to get Evans to pair with Reid at Safety.
Make that Reggie Robinson out of Tulsa and I would tell Dallas done deal.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club

badboy

Hall of Fame
If the Saints would give a 4th or Margus Hunt I would be happy with this trade.

I'm hoping the Cowboys need an OL and the Texans can trade Kelemete for Jourdan Lewis.
you don't see Stills as worth more than a 4th round pick? I see O'Brien and Watson as all in on this season.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
This article is what I've been saying about Tunsil. He's already a very good player, who's young and should only get better with health and familiarity.
The full price tag, including the new contract still gives me a bit of heartburn. I would be ecstatic if it had been either the steep trade price or the ginormous new contract. Hopefully he will be the Texans a bookend with Howard for the next 10+++ years. Success is a very good remedy for heartburn. lol
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
He was good with the Saints, and I recall reading articles from New Orleans about how they'll miss him. One of the reasons why I believe our OL coaching is subpar.
He was indeed good with the Saints. You and others, of course, are entitled to your opinions of the Texans OL coaching staff. But, Kelemete's issues with the Texans can hardly be attributed to the failure of the coaching staff. In 2018, beginning in week 5, he suffered an MCL knee injury which later in Oct led to a significant compensatory ankle ligament tear..........both of these injuries dogged him the remainder of the season. This along with an elbow hyperextension and rib injuries............as well as a significant re-injury to his knee late in the season all contributed to Kelemete's compromised performance with the Texans. This culminated with a 2019 week 1 severe wrist injury which required immediate surgery and IR for the year. One could reasonably question Kelemete's durability...........but not the coaching staff's contribution to his "blemished" performance while with the Texans.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The full price tag, including the new contract still gives me a bit of heartburn. I would be ecstatic if it had been either the steep trade price or the ginormous new contract. Hopefully he will be the Texans a bookend with Howard for the next 10+++ years. Success is a very good remedy for heartburn. lol
Take comfort in Tunsil is young and should only get better. Thing that is troublesome is with Devlin being the OL coach it's possible Tunsil doesn't improve.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
State of the OL ...

Just ask yourself one question -

If this team is at a critical point in a game and needs one yard on 3rd or 4th down - can they run the rock and go get it ?

Secondary question if Yes -

Who do they run behind ?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
State of the OL ...

Just ask yourself one question -

If this team is at a critical point in a game and needs one yard on 3rd or 4th down - can they run the rock and go get it ?

Secondary question if Yes -

Who do they run behind ?
Yes behind Fulton/Howard who are both better run blockers than pass blockers. Tunsil/Scharping are much better pass blocker. This isn't unusual with most NFL OL's. Example, when Brown was LT and Winston was RT it seemed as though the Texans ran behind Winston on 3rd and short.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
State of the OL ...

Just ask yourself one question -

If this team is at a critical point in a game and needs one yard on 3rd or 4th down - can they run the rock and go get it ?

Secondary question if Yes -

Who do they run behind ?
If its 3rd down, I'm lined up in a unbalanced wishbone option running 24 dive. If I didn't get it, I'm lining up the same and running a fake 24 dive X out...Madden Championship :trophy:

TBH, I think they could get the one yard and I'd run the right side.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
After 5 starters and barring trades, if 9 backups 1. Mancz cheap vet gone next year...please 2. Kelemete see 1. I've been cutting him for two years but O'Brien likes veterans 3. Iwuagwu high hopes for him 4.Roderick Johnson/Charlie Heck. I thought RJ would step up 2019 with revolving door but with Howard back and Fulton evidently not being traded I expect RJ gets final spot with Heck sent to PS. I would not be shocked to see Johnson cut.

If Warford signed color me ecstatic.
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badboy

Hall of Fame
Take comfort in Tunsil is young and should only get better. Thing that is troublesome is with Devlin being the OL coach it's possible Tunsil doesn't improve.
Just my opinion but I see Laremy Tunsil as the type of athlete who can learn as he goes so a question mark as his old line coach should not keep him from advancement. If he does his job and rest of line is healthy, Watson could be all pro.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just my opinion but I see Laremy Tunsil as the type of athlete who can learn as he goes so a question mark as his old line coach should not keep him from advancement. If he does his job and rest of line is healthy, Watson could be all pro.
Could be is the sentence that is important in this post.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
The latter is exactly why I still have a bit of heartburn over the total bill. Devlin could be to Tunsil as O'Brien is to Watson and we see regression.
Tunsil could be the best post snap LT in the league, but if the false starts continue then that significantly lowers his value.

My worry is that false starts are a tendency exacerbated by coming in with no camp, he may reduce them with more time on the team, but he’s still going to have more than your average OL unless he can change something fundamental. He had a lot of false starts with Miami, it got worse with Houston.
 

Earl34

Veteran
Tunsil could be the best post snap LT in the league, but if the false starts continue then that significantly lowers his value.

My worry is that false starts are a tendency exacerbated by coming in with no camp, he may reduce them with more time on the team, but he’s still going to have more than your average OL unless he can change something fundamental. He had a lot of false starts with Miami, it got worse with Houston.
Former Texans OL, Wade Smith made a comment during the season that the false starts were a timing issue between Watson, Martin and Tunsil. That on the snap count, Tunsil is getting off the ball faster than Martin is snapping the ball. That quickness off the ball is what makes Tunsil a good LT. So, the coaches are going to have to work with all three to get them in sync.

Hopefully, continuity and playing together will resolve the problem.
 
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IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Former Texans OL, Wade Smith made a comment during the season that the false starts were a timing issue between Watson, Martin and Tunsil. That on the snap count, Tunsil is getting off the ball faster than Martin is snapping the ball. That quickness off the ball is what makes Tunsil a good LT. So, the coaches are going to have to work with all three to get them in sync.

Hopefully, continuity and playing together will resolve the problem.
As in track & field, no matter how fast the sprinters start is it's still a false start if he starts out of his blocs before the gun is fired so
in other words Tunsil can't move before Martin does.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Former Texans OL, Wade Smith made a comment during the season that the false starts were a timing issue between Watson, Martin and Tunsil. That on the snap count, Tunsil is getting off the ball faster than Martin is snapping the ball. That quickness off the ball is what makes Tunsil a good LT. So, the coaches are going to have to work with all three to get them in sync.

Hopefully, continuity and playing together will resolve the problem.
In 2018, Tunsil only had 4 false starts during the entire season [2 during away games]. From what I have been told from the inside, Watson's irregular cadence also significantly contributed to the timing and false starts.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Why did he get worse here?

I think it's a little of both?

Coaching and cadence, look at how many times Martin was late snapping the ball.
The coaching staff accepting Martin’s level of play has been a big part of this OL’s trouble’s also. Even the fact that Mancz is still around as the backup instead of churning the position to see if someone can come in and improve the position.
I hate the idea that Martin is the source of the issue because they have sat on their hands for years at Center I with no effort to improve.
Think of the number of respected Guards who’ve come through only to fail when flanked by Martin on one side and some horrible Tackle the other.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It Watson cadence was the reason why weren’t the other linemen jumping offsides?
Good LTs are the first to respond/explode. RTs tend to be slower. The OTs are not next to the C to watch/feel the snap. They respond more to the cadence. The OGs don't take their cues from the QB cadence as much as they do from the C's visual cues/snap movements.
 

Earl34

Veteran
As in track & field, no matter how fast the sprinters start is it's still a false start if he starts out of his blocs before the gun is fired so
in other words Tunsil can't move before Martin does.
Using the track and field analogy. Take off is everything in the 100. The gun is fired (Watson's cadence), but Tunsil is coming out of the blocks faster than Martin.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Good LTs are the first to respond/explode. RTs tend to be slower. The OTs are not next to the C to watch/feel the snap. They respond more to the cadence. The OGs don't take their cues from the QB cadence as much as they do from the C's visual cues/snap movements.
These Cadence are worked on throughout practices and right before the games. Thanks for the refresher but I’m very familiar to how it goes. My thing is this is not on Watson. The majority of those false starts were completely on Tunsil because of the pass rusher he was up against. Tunsil himself blamed the officiating because he thinks,he’s being targeted. He also said he anticipates the snap count. So again how is that on Watson?
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The coaching staff accepting Martin’s level of play has been a big part of this OL’s trouble’s also. Even the fact that Mancz is still around as the backup instead of churning the position to see if someone can come in and improve the position.
I hate the idea that Martin is the source of the issue because they have sat on their hands for years at Center I with no effort to improve.
Think of the number of respected Guards who’ve come through only to fail when flanked by Martin on one side and some horrible Tackle the other.
Martin is an avg C who's overpaid.

I dont think he's totally to blame for what we're talking about but shares in the blame. If you want to talk about him being over powered then we're on the same page. We used to have this same discussion about an all pro having these same issues. (Myers)

Fact is when you have a 350 lbs monster over your nose and your 1st responsibility is snapping the ball, chances are you're going to need some help from your OG's.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
These Cadence are worked on throughout practices and right before the games. Thanks for the refresher but I’m very familiar to how it goes. My thing is this is not on Watson. The majority of those false starts were completely on Tunsil because of the pass rusher he was up against. Tunsil himself blamed the officiating because he thinks,he’s being targeted. He also said he anticipates the snap count. So again how is that on Watson?
For whatever reason DW4/Martin/Tunsil aren't on the same page. I think this is more of a Devlin issue than anything else.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Using the track and field analogy. Take off is everything in the 100. The gun is fired (Watson's cadence), but Tunsil is coming out of the blocks faster than Martin.
I'm sorry Earl, but don't think you've quite got the analogy down. The starters gun would be analogous to the instant the center snaps the ball, not when the QB initiates his cadence, i.e. Tunsils problem is movement before Martin hikes the ball to Watson.
 

Earl34

Veteran
I'm sorry Earl, but don't think you've quite got the analogy down. The starters gun would be analogous to the instant the center snaps the ball, not when the QB initiates his cadence, i.e. Tunsils problem is movement before Martin hikes the ball to Watson.
Since the center snapping the ball doesn't provide any sound, how can it be analogous to the starter's gun? The LT is watching the pass rusher in front of him, not staring to the right at the center. So, Watson has to be the starter's gun.

To my knowledge, the only time the other OL would be looking at the center would be when they are using a silent count, otherwise, the QB is the starter's gun.
 


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