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State of the O-line

i mean, this was the QB at Clemson whom i said can get the ball out so quickly I had hoped that he takes a little more time to go through the progression.

I’ve been trying to teall people that he wasn’t being developed right.
I saw no rhyme nor reason how Watson has been “developed” under O’Brien.
 
Texansballer74 said:
What! Are you serious. Please go back and look at Coach Reids track record Tex. Dating all the way back to Philly.

I can't believe you of all people would go there. You have a great eye for breaking down what's going on out there. Or is that only for Bill O'Brien's offense. It's like you're really trying to defend him at all cost.
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Reid has always had very good offensive schemes …. But Tex is right , Mahomes has taken that scheme to a new level. He is that good.

That kid may shatter most if not all passing records by the time he's done - assuming he stays healthy.

Just to put this into perspective - Only 3 QB's in the history of the league have thrown 50 TD passes in a season. Manning - 55 , Brady - 50 and Mahomes - 50. The difference is that Mahomes did that in his first year as a starter.

Only 7 QB's have thrown for over 5000 yards in a season …. Marino , Brees , Brady , Stafford , Manning , Roethlisberger and Mahomes. Again Mahomes did it in his first year as a starter.

Reid's schemes are great and all …. but No QB he's had has come close to those numbers.

McNabb's best TD total 31 , passing yards 3916
Alex Smith's best TD total 26 , passing yards 4042.
Mahomes TD total 50 passing yards 5097.

Both of those previous QB's were pretty good …. not like we're comparing him to Bucky Richardson.
 
Corrosion said:
Reid has always had very good offensive schemes …. But Tex is right , Mahomes has taken that scheme to a new level. He is that good.

That kid may shatter most if not all passing records by the time he's done - assuming he stays healthy.

Just to put this into perspective - Only 3 QB's in the history of the league have thrown 50 TD passes in a season. Manning - 55 , Brady - 50 and Mahomes - 50. The difference is that Mahomes did that in his first year as a starter.

Only 7 QB's have thrown for over 5000 yards in a season …. Marino , Brees , Brady , Stafford , Manning , Roethlisberger and Mahomes. Again Mahomes did it in his first year as a starter.

Reid's schemes are great and all …. but No QB he's had has come close to those numbers.

McNabb's best TD total 31 , passing yards 3916
Alex Smith's best TD total 26 , passing yards 4042.
Mahomes TD total 50 passing yards 5097.

Both of those previous QB's were pretty good …. not like we're comparing him to Bucky Richardson.
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Can’t compare the old days with the new.
Can’t compare Alex Smith, bless his heart and talent with the elite QBs.
 
Corrosion said:
Reid's schemes are great and all …. but No QB he's had has come close to those numbers.

McNabb's best TD total 31 , passing yards 3916
Alex Smith's best TD total 26 , passing yards 4042.
Mahomes TD total 50 passing yards 5097.

Both of those previous QB's were pretty good …. not like we're comparing him to Bucky Richardson.
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I agree with your post., but I will also add that Reid was open minded enough to help his young QB by studying Mahomes’ college offense and integrating many of the Texas Tech concepts and plays in his NFL offense.

By the way, does Reid have Mahomes making the offensive line calls?
 
Corrosion said:
Reid has always had very good offensive schemes …. But Tex is right , Mahomes has taken that scheme to a new level. He is that good.

That kid may shatter most if not all passing records by the time he's done - assuming he stays healthy.

Just to put this into perspective - Only 3 QB's in the history of the league have thrown 50 TD passes in a season. Manning - 55 , Brady - 50 and Mahomes - 50. The difference is that Mahomes did that in his first year as a starter.

Only 7 QB's have thrown for over 5000 yards in a season …. Marino , Brees , Brady , Stafford , Manning , Roethlisberger and Mahomes. Again Mahomes did it in his first year as a starter.

Reid's schemes are great and all …. but No QB he's had has come close to those numbers.

McNabb's best TD total 31 , passing yards 3916
Alex Smith's best TD total 26 , passing yards 4042.
Mahomes TD total 50 passing yards 5097.

Both of those previous QB's were pretty good …. not like we're comparing him to Bucky Richardson.
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Mahomes by far has more weapons than both McNabb and Smith had. Hunt (no longer there)and Hill are crazy talented. Now they have Sammy Watkins looking like the stud receiver he suppose to be. The offensive line is top 5. So of course Andy system with the plethora of weapons all across the board will dress up those stats.

I can guarantee you if Watson was in that system playing for Reid. He would be lightening it up too.

What a perfect situation for Mahomes to be in. Unfortunately Watson has Obrien.
 
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Earl34 said:
I agree with your post., but I will also add that Reid was open minded enough to help his young QB by studying Mahomes’ college offense and integrating many of the Texas Tech concepts and plays in his NFL offense.

By the way, does Reid have Mahomes making the offensive line calls?
Click to expand...


Exactly
 
76Texan said:
Can’t compare the old days with the new.
Can’t compare Alex Smith, bless his heart and talent with the elite QBs.
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I'm comparing the two best QB's Reid had in that system with the current guy in that same system.

And you don't want to compare "Old guys" to the current ? Then what's the standard ? And they aren't "that old" , 2013 isn't ancient history.

Those weren't just any "old guys" they are The best passing season records in the history of the league. Five of the 7 who have thrown for 5k are still in the league.
Two of the 3 to throw 50TD's are still in the league.

All but one of those 5000 yard seasons has happened since 2008 …. after the rule changes favoring the offensive player.


We're comparing contemporaries , not ancient history.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Mahomes by far has more weapons than both McNabb and Smith had. Hunt (no longer there)and Hill are crazy talented. Now they have Watson looking like the stud receiver he suppose to be. The offensive line is top 5. So of course Andy system with the plethora of weapons all across the board will dress up those stats.

I can guarantee you if Watson was in that system playing for Reid. He would be lightening it up too.

What a perfect situation for Mahomes to be in. Unfortunately Watson has Obrien.
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I'm not buying it.

You could argue that Watson has more talented WR's than Mahomes.

I'm a Texans fan , not a Chiefs fan …. but you just cant diminish what Mahomes has done. He's in the statistical conversation with the best QB's in the history of the league in year one as a starter. That's crazy.

Watson …. isn't close to those statistical accomplishments.

I'm not making or accepting excuses - Right Now , Mahomes is far and away the better QB and it isn't even close.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm not buying it.

You could argue that Watson has more talented WR's than Mahomes.

I'm a Texans fan , not a Chiefs fan …. but you just cant diminish what Mahomes has done. He's in the statistical conversation with the best QB's in the history of the league in year one as a starter. That's crazy.

Watson …. isn't close to those statistical accomplishments.

I'm not making or accepting excuses - Right Now , Mahomes is far and away the better QB and it isn't even close.
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Watson was well on his way up until the injury and then Obrien trying to shove down his throat his offense. Like I said Ried adapts to his players strengths while Obrien being hell bent on running only his type of offensive philosophy. Watson first 7 games he was setting the NFL on fire.

I'm not diminishing anything Mahomes has done thus far. Dude has been put in a very good situation. It happens like that sometimes, unfortunately for Watson, not so much.


And you don't have to have the best wide receiver core. Scheming them open is the key. Something both the Patriots and Cheifs are really good at.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Watson was well in his way up until the injury and then Obrien trying to shove down his throat his offense. Like I said Ried adapts to his players strengths while Obrien being hell bent on running only his type of offensive philosophy. Watson first 7 games he was setting the NFL on fire.

I'm not diminishing anything Mahomes has done thus far. Dude has been put in a very good situation. It happens like that sometimes, unfortunately for Watson, not so much.


And you don't have to have the best wide receiver core. Scheming them open is the key. Something both the Patriots and Cheifs are really good at.
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Not taking anything away from Watson but rookie QBs, if they have any kind of talent at all, usually do set the NFL on fire until teams get film on them. Dak looked like the second coming of Aikman till the next season when teams got film on him. Same with Goff last year until Fangio studied the film and found the weaknesses. Even Osweiler and Savage looked pretty good their first few games when defenses had planned for Manning and......whoever the hell we had at the time, was it Osweiler at that point?

Its why I'm looking for to the Ravens vs Chiefs game almost more than the Texans game, lets see what KC and Baltimore really have at center.
 
Corrosion said:
I'm not buying it.

You could argue that Watson has more talented WR's than Mahomes.

I'm a Texans fan , not a Chiefs fan …. but you just cant diminish what Mahomes has done. He's in the statistical conversation with the best QB's in the history of the league in year one as a starter. That's crazy.

Watson …. isn't close to those statistical accomplishments.

I'm not making or accepting excuses - Right Now , Mahomes is far and away the better QB and it isn't even close.
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Mahomes is better. He’s also with a better coach, line, and skill players. No excuses though. No excuses.
 
I would give the edge to mahomes but it's closer than the stats indicate. Watson is the second best of the young QBs, but he's stuck with the worst OC in the game who couldn't even build a good college offense
 
Adjusted Sack Rate (ASR)/Sack Rate: Sack Rate represents sacks divided by pass plays, which include passes, sacks, and aborted snaps. It is a better measure of pass blocking than total sacks because it takes into account how often an offense passes the ball. Adjusted Sack Rate adds adjustments for opponent quality, as well as down and distance (sacks are more common on third down, especially third-and-long).


The Texans rank dead last in adjusted sack rate at 14.2%.

Note that the linemen could be playing well, but if the scheme does nothing to counter a blitz the sack rate will be high. A QB holding the ball too long also contributes.
 
steelbtexan said:
ADD

Typical TT thread.

Getting back on topic, how do you think the new OL with Tunsil and the 2 rooks looked last week. They looked promising against a very good Jags defense. IMHO
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I thought they looked much better than the Titans OL without Lewan did... Campbell was eating the interior of the line of the Tits alive
 
JB said:
I thought they looked much better than the Titans OL without Lewan did... Campbell was eating the interior of the line of the Tits alive
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Yep, and to think some around here think that Jones is a really good center. He's very avg.
 
JB said:
methinks 1 on the OL
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The two sacks where Watson got blasted were on cover zero blitzes. That’s more men than lineman on one side. That’s on the RB to block or the QB to slide protection.

Either way, it’s huge improvement compared to when Kendall Lamm and Davenport held out the red carpet for free sacks.

Deshaun just needs to pick his spots when to be Superman. Hopefully just third downs.
 
corry said:
The two sacks where Watson got blasted were on cover zero blitzes. That’s more men than lineman on one side. That’s on the RB to block or the QB to slide protection.

Either way, it’s huge improvement compared to when Kendall Lamm and Davenport held out the red carpet for free sacks.

Deshaun just needs to pick his spots when to be Superman. Hopefully just third downs.
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I'm pretty sure someone on the OL snapped the ball early.
 
After watching how the Titans OL fared against that JAX front seven, I feel better about our line and I HOPE that they can cleanup the issues and at least become a middle of the pack OL.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Texans appear to have a young talented OL. (Finally)

I expect to see great improvement from them over the next month. The future looks very bright. IMHO
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I don't keep up with improvements made over the off season. What I do know is that NO had the 14th ranking in total defense last season. Jacksonville had the 5th best ranking.

So last week our OL went up against a very good defense and had significant improvement over week one, after making changes.

The Chargers had the 9th best defensive ranking last season, so we will again be going up against another very tough challenge.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
No matter what skill set Watson might possess, it shouldn't take "reading" an article to conclude from the wealth of available film, that Watson does not throw his receivers open.
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Great to see you back, Doc! Was considering asking whatever message board you went to if we could make a trade to get you back.

I dont have the film, but just last game Watson lead WFV to the sideline on a deep shot where the CB had outside leverage. He definitely needs to do more, but he does have the skill throw receivers open with some regularity.
 
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Watson came out being able to go through his progressions and make quick decisions. As a rookie he was doing this very well. He even utilized the middle of the field more. Since then he has regressed more and more. Not sure if the beating he is taking is taking it’s toll on him or if he’s trying too hard or if OB is making it worse. Either way Watson seems to have regressed as a thrower. It makes me sad. I was the one advocating to sell the farm for him.
 
amazing80 said:
Watson came out being able to go through his progressions and make quick decisions. As a rookie he was doing this very well. He even utilized the middle of the field more. Since then he has regressed more and more. Not sure if the beating he is taking is taking it’s toll on him or if he’s trying too hard or if OB is making it worse. Either way Watson seems to have regressed as a thrower. It makes me sad. I was the one advocating to sell the farm for him.
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What had happened was, we were running Clemson's offense during his short rookie season. Then the following year Obrien decided to go back to his offensive playbook. I remember him saying they lol were going to run something totally different. (Paraphrasing of course).
 
Texansballer74 said:
What had happened was, we were running Clemson's offense during his short rookie season. Then the following year Obrien decided to go back to his offensive playbook. I remember him saying they lol were going to run something totally different. (Paraphrasing of course).
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Before last season:

"
O’Brien said this morning on PFT Live that now that he has Watson as his franchise quarterback, he is making significant changes to his offense to make sure it takes advantage of Watson’s unique skills, as well as the skills of star receiver DeAndre Hopkins and other talented players on Houston’s roster.

“It’s a very big project but it’s a lot of fun. It’s fun to get in there with the offensive staff and figure out how we can do things differently than we’ve done in the past. I think you have to be willing to change in this league relative to the talent you have,” O’Brien said. “Deshaun has a unique skill set at the position and we’re looking at his skill set as well as Hopkins, Will Fuller, Lamar Miller, D'Onta Foreman, Ryan Griffin some of the other guys we have on offense and really trying to put it all together.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...xans-offense-is-a-big-project-this-offseason/
 
TheKDog said:
Before last season:

"
O’Brien said this morning on PFT Live that now that he has Watson as his franchise quarterback, he is making significant changes to his offense to make sure it takes advantage of Watson’s unique skills, as well as the skills of star receiver DeAndre Hopkins and other talented players on Houston’s roster.

“It’s a very big project but it’s a lot of fun. It’s fun to get in there with the offensive staff and figure out how we can do things differently than we’ve done in the past. I think you have to be willing to change in this league relative to the talent you have,” O’Brien said. “Deshaun has a unique skill set at the position and we’re looking at his skill set as well as Hopkins, Will Fuller, Lamar Miller, D'Onta Foreman, Ryan Griffin some of the other guys we have on offense and really trying to put it all together.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...xans-offense-is-a-big-project-this-offseason/
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Umm, is he aware Griffin was cut?
 
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