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State of the O-line

dream_team said:
We can continue to discuss this on and on, but the bolded is the truth. We have no clue what the coaches are teaching Deshaun. They could be coaching Deshaun to be more patient in the pocket and trust the protection for all we know. I think we all agree Deshaun needs to get the ball out quicker. Are the coaches doing a poor job at prepping DW for that? Or is DW simply not taking what the defense is giving? We'll never know.
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Agreed...if I were to guess though, I think it’s more DW4 getting inpatient with taking what the defense gives him consistently. This is a very common thing for young qbs coming into the league with the fanfare he had coming in. Those types of guys are used to coming up with big plays all the time. He also showed this tendency last year early when he threw a number of inexplicable deep passes that resulted ints.
 
OBrien says the offensive line has played well.


Tweet from @PatDStat: “We’re seeing a lot of pressure and we’ve got to do a better job against the pressure. We’ve got to understand it involves more than the line.” Bill O’Brien on the #Texans offensive line through two weeks. https://t.co/OSNygyvZQE
 
But I do think the majority of the “credit” for the success of the blitzes against the Texans has to go to O’Brien. The best offensive innovators in the NFL are able to scheme open receivers against teams like Jacksonville regularly. Kansas City just spent four quarters doing it in Week 1. Instead of reacting to blitzes by creating open receivers with ease, O’Brien wants to impose his will on the defense. He wants to punish defenses for daring to blitz his quarterback.

As long as he cares to do that instead of dial up some plays that naturally target vacated blitz areas, Watson will be the one that suffers for it.

https://www.riversmccown.com/2019/09/18/a-unified-theory-of-blitzing-and-deshaun-watson/
 
TheKDog said:
OBrien says the offensive line has played well.


Tweet from @PatDStat: “We’re seeing a lot of pressure and we’ve got to do a better job against the pressure. We’ve got to understand it involves more than the line.” Bill O’Brien on the #Texans offensive line through two weeks. https://t.co/OSNygyvZQE
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I don't understand how you read that so differently than I do
 
JB said:
Yeah I watched the video after I posted... did hear the OL did play well last week overall tho, or at least Wade Smith thinks so. All the hits on the QB not on the OL
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I think a lot of it might be scheme.
 
Mr teX said:
Agreed...if I were to guess though, I think it’s more DW4 getting inpatient with taking what the defense gives him consistently. This is a very common thing for young qbs coming into the league with the fanfare he had coming in. Those types of guys are used to coming up with big plays all the time. He also showed this tendency last year early when he threw a number of inexplicable deep passes that resulted ints.
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Carl Smith was supposed to help Watson with this.
 
Mr teX said:
Well my original post was in response to someone saying that the plays being called only have guys running long developing routes, which, as demonstrated in your clip and the other below it shows that to be not true. There is always someone he has the option to throw it short or check it down to on pretty much every pass play...so it’s not really play design.

.
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In that clip it shows all the pass catchers with their backs to the QB. NO ONE is looking for the ball.

That to me says the routes are taking too long to develop - in relation to how much time Watson has in the pocket.
A shorter route as a safety outlet is a wise addition …. a staple of the NFL playbook.

It most definitely IS a problem with play design.
 
Corrosion said:
In that clip it shows all the pass catchers with their backs to the QB. NO ONE is looking for the ball.

That to me says the routes are taking too long to develop - in relation to how much time Watson has in the pocket.
A shorter route as a safety outlet is a wise addition …. a staple of the NFL playbook.

It most definitely IS a problem with play design.
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C’mon corrosion. The route Coutee ran was a quick slant. how much damn shorter can the route be besides a hitch? the drag across the formation is also an option there but he has to wait for the d-line to clear before he can execute that route. The fact Coutee isn’t looking back for the ball there doesn’t speak to the design of the play but rather him understanding that he’s not being clear and ready to receive the ball. IOW, he didn’t win his match up nearly as quickly as he should’ve been able to.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the play design there...only the execution by Coutee..which shouldn’t be surprising considering this was his 1st game back from injury.
 
Mr teX said:
C’mon corrosion. The route Coutee ran was a quick slant. how much damn shorter can the route be besides a hitch? the drag across the formation is also an option there but he has to wait for the d-line to clear before he can execute that route. The fact Coutee isn’t looking back for the ball there doesn’t speak to the design of the play but rather him understanding that he’s not being clear and ready to receive the ball. IOW, he didn’t win his match up nearly as quickly as he should’ve been able to.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with the play design there...only the execution by Coutee..which shouldn’t be surprising considering this was his 1st game back from injury.
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If Coutee isn't looking for the ball within his first 3-4 strides on a 'quick slant' then it's coaching.
 
It just seems crazy with as many talented, speed receivers that the Texans have that they can't use that speed to their advantage on some quick routes to help the offensive line out.

I'd be mixing up crossing routes, slants and then the occasional deep ball with Stills, Fuller, Coutee and Hopkins all day long. Bill should just steal plays from KC, New England, LA and New Orleans because those teams seem like they always have guys open. The Texans never do and so every member of the offensive line and QB has to be perfect to complete a pass. No wonder the offense struggles.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
It just seems crazy with as many talented, speed receivers that the Texans have that they can't use that speed to their advantage on some quick routes to help the offensive line out.

I'd be mixing up crossing routes, slants and then the occasional deep ball with Stills, Fuller, Coutee and Hopkins all day long. Bill should just steal plays from KC, New England, LA and New Orleans because those teams seem like they always have guys open. The Texans never do and so every member of the offensive line and QB has to be perfect to complete a pass. No wonder the offense struggles.
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Two words:
Butt Chin.
 
There seem to be quite a few "player execution" issues on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe coach should change how he structures practice
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
It just seems crazy with as many talented, speed receivers that the Texans have that they can't use that speed to their advantage on some quick routes to help the offensive line out.

I'd be mixing up crossing routes, slants and then the occasional deep ball with Stills, Fuller, Coutee and Hopkins all day long. Bill should just steal plays from KC, New England, LA and New Orleans because those teams seem like they always have guys open. The Texans never do and so every member of the offensive line and QB has to be perfect to complete a pass. No wonder the offense struggles.
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It's like he's afraid to use rub routes to free his skill guys up.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
It just seems crazy with as many talented, speed receivers that the Texans have that they can't use that speed to their advantage on some quick routes to help the offensive line out.

I'd be mixing up crossing routes, slants and then the occasional deep ball with Stills, Fuller, Coutee and Hopkins all day long. Bill should just steal plays from KC, New England, LA and New Orleans because those teams seem like they always have guys open. The Texans never do and so every member of the offensive line and QB has to be perfect to complete a pass. No wonder the offense struggles.
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The difference between what’s going on with Andy Reid and BoB right now is that Reid has a guy under center that’s not missing his opportunities...except when he attempts no look passes.

I love DW4...but in the Saints game he missed on 2 TD strikes to Nuk and Fuller when both plays schemed those guys wide open. In the Jax game he missed on another TD strike to Duke who was once again running wide open on a play that was perfectly schemed up.
 
Mr teX said:
The difference between what’s going on with Andy Reid and BoB right now is that Reid has a guy under center that’s not missing his opportunities...except when he attempts no look passes.

I love DW4...but in the Saints game he missed on 2 TD strikes to Nuk and Fuller when both plays schemed those guys wide open. In the Jax game he missed on another TD strike to Duke who was once again running wide open on a play that was perfectly schemed up.
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Duke cut his route off. If he continues running to the endzone. That's TD.

Mahomes is missing opportunities as well. The difference is he doesn't have to throw into tight coverages 85-90% of the times like Watson. Another reason, Mahomes isn't getting pulverized like Watson. He actually has a lot of time to go through his progression. Even Dak is enjoying those beautiful luxuries. I'm like dang why aren't our receivers wide open like that.
 
Doesn't part of that go back to the scheming guys open with quick passes? Mahomes and his offensive line are able to get in a rhythmn with short, quick passes and then they start opening up the playbook.

Watson usually gets hit a time or three before getting the one chance at making a play. Then he won't have a great opportunity until he's gotten rocked a few more times. Mahomes or Brady never get hit so they're always in a good rhythmn and can step into the throw with confidence. Watson never knows where he's going to get hit next.

I'm probably making excuses for Watson because of my dislike of his coach. It just seems like every other competent offense puts their QB in the best position to succeed while our offense is how can we handicap Watson enough and still try to win.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
Doesn't part of that go back to the scheming guys open with quick passes? Mahomes and his offensive line are able to get in a rhythmn with short, quick passes and then they start opening up the playbook.

Watson usually gets hit a time or three before getting the one chance at making a play. Then he won't have a great opportunity until he's gotten rocked a few more times. Mahomes or Brady never get hit so they're always in a good rhythmn and can step into the throw with confidence. Watson never knows where he's going to get hit next.

I'm probably making excuses for Watson because of my dislike of his coach. It just seems like every other competent offense puts their QB in the best position to succeed while our offense is how can we handicap Watson enough and still try to win.
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People sometimes fail to realize getting hit like that on a consistent basis will have an adverse effect on these quarterbacks. The internal clock moves faster than normal. It's up to the coach to realize that and go all out in helping his franchise QB out before it's too late. Watson looks totally different from his rookie season.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Duke cut his route off. If he continues running to the endzone. That's TD.

Mahomes is missing opportunities as well. The difference is he doesn't have to throw into tight coverages 85-90% of the times like Watson. Another reason, Mahomes isn't getting pulverized like Watson. He actually has a lot of time to go through his progression. Even Dak is enjoying those beautiful luxuries. I'm like dang why aren't our receivers wide open like that.
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Ya’ll are delusional if ya’ll believe KC’s explosive offense is elite b/c of Reid’s “scheming”. Where was all this great scheming when he had Alex Smith as his starter? Mahomes is an elite level passer. He’s super accurate, he has a cannon for an arm and he can make throws that DW4 or really most other qbs simply can’t make, period....not consistently anyway. He has come in and taken Reid’s scheme to a level its never seen before. Dude threw 6 damn TD passes against one of best defenses in the rams last year and got pulverized in the process so it ain’t that. Mahomes is hitting guys in stride most times. That’s why Sammy Watkins can take a 6 yd slant route 70 yards while being surrounded by 3 Jax defenders. Mahomes is getting up off the ball when he’s supposed to as well and he’s doing it accurately. That’s why teams aren’t blitzing him as much. B/c they know he will make them pay. That is what elite level passers do.

Right now DW4 is just a good passer. & there’s nothing wrong with that.
 
cameronkrazie86 said:
Doesn't part of that go back to the scheming guys open with quick passes? Mahomes and his offensive line are able to get in a rhythmn with short, quick passes and then they start opening up the playbook.

Watson usually gets hit a time or three before getting the one chance at making a play. Then he won't have a great opportunity until he's gotten rocked a few more times. Mahomes or Brady never get hit so they're always in a good rhythmn and can step into the throw with confidence. Watson never knows where he's going to get hit next.

I'm probably making excuses for Watson because of my dislike of his coach. It just seems like every other competent offense puts their QB in the best position to succeed while our offense is how can we handicap Watson enough and still try to win.
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You most definitely are.

BoB and the rest of the NFL want BALANCE in their offenses. Ya’ll want wide open air raid ****.
 
What! Are you serious. Please go back and look at Coach Reids track record Tex. Dating all the way back to Philly.

I can't believe you of all people would go there. You have a great eye for breaking down what's going on out there. Or is that only for Bill O'Brien's offense. It's like you're really trying to defend him at all cost.
 
Texansballer74 said:
People sometimes fail to realize getting hit like that on a consistent basis will have an adverse effect on these quarterbacks. The internal clock moves faster than normal. It's up to the coach to realize that and go all out in helping his franchise QB out before it's too late. Watson looks totally different from his rookie season.
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He looks different b/c teams have a book on him now. Of course getting hit like that takes its toll...that’s why he needs to learn not to hold the ball so damn long looking for the homerun. As for the coach..look we’ve seen BoB keeping TE’s in to block and chip..we’ve seen him use max protect at times...we’ve seen him stay committed to the run game in an effort to limit his drop backs..and this offseason we’ve seen him give up tons of draft capital for a franchise LT, and spend draft capital on fortifying the line. If that’s not showing a commitment to helping your qb as u say, I don’t know what is.
 
Mr teX said:
He looks different b/c teams have a book on him now. Of course getting hit like that takes its toll...that’s why he needs to learn not to hold the ball so damn long looking for the homerun. As for the coach..look we’ve seen BoB keeping TE’s in to block and chip..we’ve seen him use max protect at times...we’ve seen him stay committed to the run game in an effort to limit his drop backs..and this offseason we’ve seen him give up tons of draft capital for a franchise LT, and spend draft capital on fortifying the line. If that’s not showing a commitment to helping your qb as u say, I don’t know what is.
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And don't these teams have a book on Mahomes? The MVP hasn't missed a beat and his coach is making it so much easier for him.

Hyde is 5th in rushing so why not run him more. How about a few more RB screens mixed in there. How about utilizing a lot more rub routes to free up these speedsters. And I'm talking about consistently, not every blue in the moon.

How establishing a true identity. Nobody on here can truly state what we're running out there.
 
Texansballer74 said:
What! Are you serious. Please go back and look at Coach Reids track record Tex. Dating all the way back to Philly.

I can't believe you of all people who go there. You have a great eye for breaking down what's going on out there. Or is that only for Bill O'Brien's offense. It's like you're really trying to defend him at all cost.
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Bro...I was a huge McNabb fan back in Reid’s philly days. His best season under Reid he threw 31 TD passes, and Reid repeatedly kept getting his **** pushed in the playoffs when his teams were CLEARLY the favorites. The hallmarks of those teams were his offenses REPEATEDLY bogging down at the most inopportune times, b/c he used to get too cute...

Fast forward to his time in KC, you were seeing the same **** with Alex Smith’s whose best season under him was what DW4 put up last year and his offenses were either all the way on, or they were terrible. Team collapsed against Andrew Luck in the playoffs and fell apart at the end offensively. Believe he Had 1 year where his WR’s didn’t record a single TD all season.

Enter Mahomes. The KC offense literally becomes one of the most explosive offenses the league has EVER seen overnight and don’t look to be falling off anytime soon.
 
Texansballer74 said:
And don't these teams have a book on Mahomes? The MVP hasn't missed a beat and his coach is making it so much easier for him.

Hyde is 5th in rushing so why not run him more. How about a few more RB screens mixed in there. How about utilizing a lot more rub routes to free up these speedsters. And I'm talking about consistently, not every blue in the moon.

How establishing a true identity. Nobody on here can truly state what we're running out there.
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I thought running too much was one of the biggest complaints against OB. You want him to run more?
 
Texansballer74 said:
And don't these teams have a book on Mahomes? The MVP hasn't missed a beat and his coach is making it so much easier for him.

Hyde is 5th in rushing so why not run him more. How about a few more RB screens mixed in there. How about utilizing a lot more rub routes to free up these speedsters. And I'm talking about consistently, not every blue in the moon.

How establishing a true identity. Nobody on here can truly state what we're running out there.
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Yes they have a book on Mahomes...but Mahomes is an elite level passer, with an elite arm to go with it and he can make throws consistently that a lot of other guys in the league simply can’t make. That’s what separates him, not Reid’s “scheming”.

If he were just any other ordinary guy putting up numbers I would agree with you. But that’s not the case. Mahomes has defense out there literally scared as ****. & not just b/c of the type of throws he makes, but how he makes them. Dude is out here making no look passes, left handed passes, passes out of every damn type of arm slot you can possibly make them...it really ridiculous honestly.
 
You're missing the point Tex. Even back then his receivers were wide open is the point. His offense in the regular season works pretty darn good. It has a true identity unlike ours. He also caters to the strength of his players Bro. Dude utilizes all of his weapons. He knows how to coach up his team to run his philosophy. Look at Watson (reciever) in that offense. He is looking like the receiver all the critics thought he would be. Same with ole buddy in Dallas.

I'm just saying Obrien has the weapons he need to have one of the best offenses in the NFL. Imo his philosophy doesn't fit this team.
 
JB said:
I thought running too much was one of the biggest complaints against OB. You want him to run more?
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His line is doing a much better job in that department. And he finally has a back who knows how to run between in the trenches. Plus Carlos doesn't fall down on first contact like Miller did a lot.

So use that weapon to open up the passing game.
 
I will say I think Reid is more creative that not just BoB but most OCs but honestly I think it has hurt him in the past because it was so creative you had to have a particular type of wild, gun slinging QB to make it work. It’s why he had crap success with Smith even though Smith is a well above average QB.

Reid: “Ok you’re going to run 3 steps right, 4 steps left, back flip over the rusher, throw into the air, ricochet it off a passing bird, into the WRs hands, touchdown.”

Mahomes: “No problem coach.”

The Mahomes/Reid combo maybe the BB/Brady combo of the future. It also helps that first thing KC did was start to protect Mahomes. I honestly believe we are still seeing the affects of Watson going down that first season to say nothing for last season.
 
Mr teX said:
I love DW4...but in the Saints game he missed on 2 TD strikes to Nuk and Fuller when both plays schemed those guys wide open.
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He also missed a wide open Coutee in the end zone before the half against the Jags during the no timeout fiasco. On top of all the other problems, Watson is just not playing well.
 
Mr teX said:
Bro...I was a huge McNabb fan back in Reid’s philly days. His best season under Reid he threw 31 TD passes, and Reid repeatedly kept getting his **** pushed in the playoffs when his teams were CLEARLY the favorites. The hallmarks of those teams were his offenses REPEATEDLY bogging down at the most inopportune times, b/c he used to get too cute...

Fast forward to his time in KC, you were seeing the same **** with Alex Smith’s whose best season under him was what DW4 put up last year and his offenses were either all the way on, or they were terrible. Team collapsed against Andrew Luck in the playoffs and fell apart at the end offensively. Believe he Had 1 year where his WR’s didn’t record a single TD all season.

Enter Mahomes. The KC offense literally becomes one of the most explosive offenses the league has EVER seen overnight and don’t look to be falling off anytime soon.
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I think it's both Mahomes' talent in Reid's system. Alex Smith, known by some as Mr. Checkdown, still managed 4000+ yds, 26 TDs vs. 5 (that's FIVE) INTs in his last year under Andy Reid. Now you put a young gunslinger like Mahomes in that system and you get 5000 yds and 50 TDs. Somehow I don't think he's that prolific this season. But that's just me.

My point is it's both Reid's system and Mahomes talent. Don't overlook the fact that Reid sat Mahomes an entire year to let him learn - after spending significant draft capital to move up to snag him - to make sure he (Mahomes) had all the concepts down cold before handing him the starter's job.

I do find it interesting that the Chiefs 4 losses were against the Rams, Patriots, Seahawks, and Chargers. All top tier QBs.
 
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