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Slaton's Fumbling

Scooter said:
i've already caught negative rep in this thread and will repeat my stance. sit his ass down. brown and moats are better RUNNING BACKS this season. in slaton's only run today he had a lane you could land a plane on and somehow only managed 1 yard. slaton is mirroring reggie bush's second year failures and until he figures it out and gets out of his slump, should be used as such. bring him in on 3rd downs as a receiver, screen, draw, or blocking back and allow him to earn his job back. until then, give the job to the guys who are earning it.
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Other than the Brown part, I agree with you. Right now, it should be Moats getting the majority of the plays and Slaton as the backup until Slaton proves that he deserves to be the starter again. At least Slaton has scored some TDs and has some speed; Brown on the other hand has shown nothing.

GP said:
I've said that Slaton's problem is not knowing when to go down; when to cover up and just end the play.

Same thing on today's fumble: He breaks a tackle, and loses his mind in the middle of making a move. Result: Loosens grip on ball, and it gets stripped.

This team is going to need all three RBs to contribute if we continue our winning streak. If, at any point, it's one or the other, or the other, then I'm good with whoever it is.
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Agreed. I really believe Slaton is thinking way too much. Instead of instinctively hitting the holes, he is thinking about which holes to hit. Instead of diving for the extra yardage, he is standing up hoping his line will push him for some extra yards. And instead of instinctively running with the ball like he did last year, he is thinking about what to do with the ball and in turn is losing his mojo.

eriadoc said:
I don't have to start my Fire Slaton thread now, because Kubiak did what good coaches do. He held his player accountable. We won this game without Slaton's "playmaking" ability (which could be a play for either team at any given time), and on the road to boot.

Moats isn't as good as today showed, but he isn't bad either. He and Chris Brown can do a good enough job if they just get positive yardage and hold onto the ball. Fumble issues aside, I honestly think those two are better options at RB right now anyway. The running game just looks better when they are in there. Slaton gets too many negative plays. Moats and Brown just hit the hole hard and take everything they can get. They won't bust off the long TD, most likely, but I'll take a string of positive plays over drive killers any day.

Cheers Kubiak!

:fans:
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I really believe Kubiak did it at the right time too. Any game before today would have been too soon but today was the last straw. If Moats had not performed well, then Slaton could have come back out and probably start next week. But Moats played phenomenally and because of that, Moats deserves to start next week.
 
Now let's see if Kubiak does the right thing by starting Moats next week, and having Slaton come in on some plays to at least communicate that he's not 100% out of the loop yet.

Until Moats hits a wall, no reason to get away from him carrying the snaps.
 
GP said:
Now let's see if Kubiak does the right thing by starting Moats next week, and having Slaton come in on some plays to at least communicate that he's not 100% out of the loop yet.

Until Moats hits a wall, no reason to get away from him carrying the snaps.
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Yep. Moats should start, and Slaton's first touch should be a screen or pitch to the outside, and on the opponent's side of the field. Slaton should be operating with the understanding that his chances continue until he fumbles again.

So many fans on here want to blast the coaching staff (Kubiak especially) for things he really doesn't control. Accountability is the one thing he really does control, and it's time he stuck it to Slaton and showed everyone that turnovers will not be tolerated.
 
After as many fumbles, especially fumbles lost, Slaton needs to be sat by Kubiak for more than just part of one game. Keeping him in, with excuse that he is invaluable as a screen pass receiver, etc., shows failure to understand that these circumstances all require the handling of the ball. He needs to SIT long enough to give lots of thought to where his head has gone.
 
Moats has earned the starting spot. Unfortunately I dont think Brown can Ron Dayne the Colts and we're going to need Slaton and every other playmaker next week so Slaton still gets the opportunity to earn his starting job back.

But the job is now Moats' to lose.
 
what is sad but funny is that when Slaton fumbled, the first thing that came to mind was "well he got that out of the way already"
 
Scooter said:
i've already caught negative rep in this thread and will repeat my stance. sit his ass down. brown and moats are better RUNNING BACKS this season. in slaton's only run today he had a lane you could land a plane on and somehow only managed 1 yard. slaton is mirroring reggie bush's second year failures and until he figures it out and gets out of his slump, should be used as such. bring him in on 3rd downs as a receiver, screen, draw, or blocking back and allow him to earn his job back. until then, give the job to the guys who are earning it.
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Both Brown and Moats have been more productive running the ball , its his ability to bring big plays in the passing game that is missing with the other two.
I'll take holding onto the ball over the remote possibility of a big play.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
After as many fumbles, especially fumbles lost, Slaton needs to be sat by Kubiak for more than just part of one game. Keeping him in, with excuse that he is invaluable as a screen pass receiver, etc., shows failure to understand that these circumstances all require the handling of the ball. He needs to SIT long enough to give lots of thought to where his head has gone.
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did anyone notice the look on slaton's face on the sidelines he was not happy, would have been better if he put his helmet on the bench and tried to help Brown/Moats anyway he could.
 
I also saw Slaton pound the dirt after the fumble. Kubes gave Slaton a break
during the 49ers game, but he DID NOT make the same mistake during
THIS game. Kubes HAD to sit Steve, because the defense was playing
lights out from the first quarter. Slaton putting the ball on the ground
would have compromised the dominance of the defense.
 
How does this type of thing happen? Three fumbles last year, but he's lost five so far this year (at the halfway point). He was fine running it last year (knew when to go down/cover up/end play, etc.), but is having so many damn problems this year.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
How does this type of thing happen? Three fumbles last year, but he's lost five so far this year (at the halfway point). He was fine running it last year (knew when to go down/cover up/end play, etc.), but is having so many damn problems this year.
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his big knock on him in college was the fumbles, he had a good year last year which was a change from the norm for him.
 
What short memories here, both in terms of the Texans and the history of the NFL in general. There are so many great runners from the past who had fumbling issues, from Ahman Green to Adrian Peterson himself. Slaton did not have a fumbling issue last season, and put up one of the best years for a rookie RB in recent memory. He averaged about 5 ypc, so he clearly knows how to be a very productive every down RB.

What's unique about Slaton's fumbles has been the violent, negative reaction of his head coach. Each time he's fumbled, he has been immediately pulled from the game, and left on the sidelines for various lengths of time. This time, Kubiak simply left him there all game, as Moats cut through one of the weakest run defenses in the league. But to typical homer fans, this means that Moats is "better" than Slaton and should now be the starter. If you really think Moats is a better NFL RB than Slaton, and should now start after one good game, then I truly question anything else you say here.

Kubiak has never had anything good to say about Steve Slaton. He has apparently read some amateur psychology books, and thinks his absurdly extreme "tough love" approach will somehow motivate Slaton. Obviously that isn't working, but don't expect this clown to change. Right now, Slaton's confidence must be at an all time low- his coach has never shown him the least bit of support, and has made it crystal clear that zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. So guess what Slaton will be thinking every time that ball touches his hands? Hint- it won't be trying to gain yardage or create big plays.

I can guarantee you that Jeff Fisher would never treat Chris Johnson like this, if he started fumbling the ball. Going into this season, Fisher's public statements regarding his plans for his impressive rookie RB were logical- he said he wanted to get him more touches. Duh. Meanwhile, Kubiak's comments about his own just as impressive rookie RB (actually Slaton outgained Johnson last year, though you'd never know if from fans or the media) were just as illogical- "we need someone else to carry the ball," which was a direct jab at Slaton. This culminated earlier this season in his inexcusable public lament that his team didn't sign Cedric Benson. What coach has ever slapped his current starting RB in the face like that? It's no surprise that Johnson is looking great, because he's running with confidence and has no fear that his coach will bench him after a few fumbles. Slaton, on the other hand, was already pressing too hard, and will now almost certainly be a basket case each time he's given a touch (assuming rocket scientist Kubiak doesn't bench him for the rest of the season).

I've been watching football for over 40 years, and have never seen any good, let alone great (which Slaton should have been considered after his stellar rookie season) player treated with such disrespect by his coach, or the fans. At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.
 
unreals said:
What short memories here, both in terms of the Texans and the history of the NFL in general. There are so many great runners from the past who had fumbling issues, from Ahman Green to Adrian Peterson himself. Slaton did not have a fumbling issue last season, and put up one of the best years for a rookie RB in recent memory. He averaged about 5 ypc, so he clearly knows how to be a very productive every down RB.

What's unique about Slaton's fumbles has been the violent, negative reaction of his head coach. Each time he's fumbled, he has been immediately pulled from the game, and left on the sidelines for various lengths of time. This time, Kubiak simply left him there all game, as Moats cut through one of the weakest run defenses in the league. But to typical homer fans, this means that Moats is "better" than Slaton and should now be the starter. If you really think Moats is a better NFL RB than Slaton, and should now start after one good game, then I truly question anything else you say here.

Kubiak has never had anything good to say about Steve Slaton. He has apparently read some amateur psychology books, and thinks his absurdly extreme "tough love" approach will somehow motivate Slaton. Obviously that isn't working, but don't expect this clown to change. Right now, Slaton's confidence must be at an all time low- his coach has never shown him the least bit of support, and has made it crystal clear that zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. So guess what Slaton will be thinking every time that ball touches his hands? Hint- it won't be trying to gain yardage or create big plays.

I can guarantee you that Jeff Fisher would never treat Chris Johnson like this, if he started fumbling the ball. Going into this season, Fisher's public statements regarding his plans for his impressive rookie RB were logical- he said he wanted to get him more touches. Duh. Meanwhile, Kubiak's comments about his own just as impressive rookie RB (actually Slaton outgained Johnson last year, though you'd never know if from fans or the media) were just as illogical- "we need someone else to carry the ball," which was a direct jab at Slaton. This culminated earlier this season in his inexcusable public lament that his team didn't sign Cedric Benson. What coach has ever slapped his current starting RB in the face like that? It's no surprise that Johnson is looking great, because he's running with confidence and has no fear that his coach will bench him after a few fumbles. Slaton, on the other hand, was already pressing too hard, and will now almost certainly be a basket case each time he's given a touch (assuming rocket scientist Kubiak doesn't bench him for the rest of the season).

I've been watching football for over 40 years, and have never seen any good, let alone great (which Slaton should have been considered after his stellar rookie season) player treated with such disrespect by his coach, or the fans. At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.
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How did Fisher treat his Pro Bowl rookie Vince Young his sophomore year? Did he hold his hand and support him through his troubles? Or did he bench him after week 1 for a player that was performing better?

You act as if Slaton was puttering along in 2009 looking exactly the same as he did last year. Today was not his first fumble. And if he really can't hang on to the ball because the coach is giving him dirty looks, I shudder to think what he will do with it when someone actually hits him. Oh wait, we saw what he'd do.

Just like any NFL coach would, Kubiak or Fisher will start whoever he feels gives him the best chance to win. Turning the ball over once a game hurts those chances.
 
Wow. Unreals is using Slaton's accountability moment as an opportunity to bash Kubiak. His take on Kubiak's opinion of Slaton is factless and without merit, and I say that as someone who has defended Slaton from the critics here.
 
The Vince Young comparison is not a good one- Fisher stood by him all throughout his miserable sophomore season. He started the third season, was injured and then had his unfortunate meltdown. Until then, Fisher was always a huge public supporter of his.

Please give me an example where any head coach has been this impatient- and I mean from the first fumble this season, with a player who had the kind of rookie season Slaton had. I maintain that this ridiculously "tough" approach by Kubiak, from the first game, has resulted in Slaton being more tenative and nervous when touching the ball. Despite this, he has still managed to make some big plays, but as yesterday shows, zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. Of course, this zero tolerance policy doesn't extend to Chris Brown, whose fumble at the goal line directly cost the Texans a victory, but didn't earn him a single negative word from Kubiak, or change in the least the way the coach utilized him.

Also please provide a single instance of a head coach publicly bemoaning the fact that his team didn't sign another player as a free agent. Kubiak did this several weeks back in regards to Cedric Benson. Who do you think might have been just the least offended by this statement?

At this point, Kubiak has probably succeeded in shattering Slaton's self- confidence to such an extent that he may not be able to recover. Have fun watching future hall of famer Ryan Moats lead the way to victory.
 
Do you even follow the Texans closely, or are you just a fantasy football owner who's mad about Slaton getting benched? You are spouting nothing but horsesh*t w/r/t the Benson situation, probably as a result of that steaming load rotoworld put out recently.
 
I have a signed Slaton Jersey hanging over my computer & it rules. since aquireing said jersey the Texans are 3-0.. not like I'm a Johnny come lately either since I also have a signed Slaton football pre-draft. that being said, I'm a huge Slaton fan. this could work in his & Texans favor. the blocking up front was best this season, I'm sure Slaton could have executed the plays just as well but given the circumstances, a message had to be sent.
 
Right. Clearly benching Slaton in the 1st drive of a 31-10 rout where we ended up having our most effective rushing game all year (yeah yeah -- Buffalo has the worst rushing D in the league. They still made Slaton look like crap) was a grievous error on Gary's part. Lord knows why he's an NFL coach.

You could have picked a better game to claim Kubiak is out of his league bro. He's coached this team to the best record they've ever had at this point.

My god you are seriously claiming that Slaton can't hang onto the ball because his coach said Cedric Benson was a good back. Kubiak better never say Adrian Peterson is a good running back. If Steve's ego is as eggshell fragile as you claim then Slaton may just go into a VY pout for two years. If he fumbles every time someone says things about him, what the hell is he doing in the NFL?

It's not like Kubiak benched him after one play of game 1. He gave the guy half a season. He leads the league in fumbles. Slaton needed to be benched.

I'm not saying we need to trade Steve for a seventh round pick. I'm saying that when you have fumbled the ball 7 times in 7 games and proceed to fumble again on your second carry, you get to say hello to the bench for the rest of the game.

As far as starting next week, I'm fine with Slaton missing the first series. If that causes him to pout and give up his pro football career, he shouldn't be in the NFL in the first place.
 
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unreals said:
At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.

At this point, Kubiak has probably succeeded in shattering Slaton's self- confidence to such an extent that he may not be able to recover. Have fun watching future hall of famer Ryan Moats lead the way to victory.
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Very well-written posts. Too bad they're so incorrect.

from HT.com...
(on growing concern with RB Steve Slaton's fumbling situation) "Yeah, it's very concerning. I think what happens in this league too is when you get a little bit of a reputation, you put a few balls on the ground for a couple of weeks, and it's almost like these guys just start getting more, a lot tougher, as far as holding you up. You know that's where he is at right now. I mean people smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground. So they're really getting after him. I told him when I walked in with him after the game, and I just said, ‘You know we're going to go as far as you take us. And you got to figure out a way to protect the football. We're gonna work with you throughout the week, but you just got to have the ability somehow to hang onto that football.' But Steve's our guy and I have a lot of confidence in him, and it's our job to help him find a way to hold onto the ball."
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Those sure don't sound like the words of a coach that is trying to "shatter his player's self-confidence."

soooo... unless you're telling us that Slaton is a prima donna punk who has to be babied and be sweet-talked by his coach in order to perform, he will step up and overcome this issue.

Unless, of course, you think Slaton is ABOVE accountability to his teammates, coaches, and fans...?
 
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Quote:
(on growing concern with RB Steve Slaton's fumbling situation) "Yeah, it's very concerning. I think what happens in this league too is when you get a little bit of a reputation, you put a few balls on the ground for a couple of weeks, and it's almost like these guys just start getting more, a lot tougher, as far as holding you up. You know that's where he is at right now. I mean people smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground. So they're really getting after him. I told him when I walked in with him after the game, and I just said, ‘You know we're going to go as far as you take us. And you got to figure out a way to protect the football. We're gonna work with you throughout the week, but you just got to have the ability somehow to hang onto that football.' But Steve's our guy and I have a lot of confidence in him, and it's our job to help him find a way to hold onto the ball."

And Kubiak pulled him from the game after he fumbled on his second touch, then never put him back in. I guess they went "as far as" they did without using him at all. It's ironic that Kubiak accurately sees how other teams react to a back that's been fumbling, but fails to understand how his hard ass, unforgiving attitude- which started after the first fumble, has contributed to Slaton's problems.

Kubiak has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't trust Slaton, and I don't understand how Slaton could now trust him.

After the first few weeks of this season, I read many posts where Texans fans had already given up on Slaton, who had come off an astonishing rookie season that saw him average 5 ypc and lead the AFC in total yards. Now, Ryan Moats- who has never done a thing in several years in this league- is suddenly considered a superstar by many of these same fans. Really, how do you expect anyone who knows the least thing about football to respect your opinion when you reveal a lack of perspective like that? Steve Slaton is a great RB- let's hope he hasn't lost all his confidence.
 
For the life of me I cannot wrap my head around this warped logic. Steve's fumbles are because Kubiak chews him out when he fumbles? Or because when someone asked Kubes about Benson he said we looked at him and determined that he didn't fit our offense? So why did Steve fumble in both the games prior to that statement? Do you think Steve is so fragile that he is going to fumble once a game unless he's the only RB on the roster?

This was not Slaton's first fumble man. It was his seventh. In 8 games. You don't see a problem there? Kubiak trusted him after his first fumble. And the second. And the third. The fourth. The fifth. And the sixth. Then he said, "enough." Apparently you believe that NFL coaches never bench players. I for one would be a helluva lot more pissed at Gary if he blithely let Steve fumble the ball every 13 carries indefinitely and just said "nice try that time Steve. You almost kept the football the entire play. Here's a lollipop. You are good enough. Smart enough. And doggone it, people like you," after he gave the game away. I don't want my grandmother leading the team, or anyone else to pat players' heads and tell them they are perfect no matter what they do. I want a coach.

Steve Slaton plays professional football. He is not a 6 year old playing PeeWee soccer where everyone gets an equal shot. In the NFL, those that produce start, and those that fail, sit. Steve's best game all year produced half the yards Moats did. But apparently Kubiak should just shut his eyes and say "Well, at least he did something last year." Maybe we should trade for Matt Cassell while we're at it. Hey, he was good in 2008, right?

Great RB's don't lose their confidence after a coach glares at them. Bad Rb's do. I'm certainly hoping Slaton falls in the first category.
 
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unreals said:
Who cares about trust, it's about doing his job and running the ball without putting it on the ground, he's being careless with protecting the ball, not shifting it away from the defense, holding it with one arm out wide when he is in traffic. It's all mental mistakes for 75% of his fumbles. These aren't where he's getting hit helmet on the ball like the first one against the Jets.

I'm not saying Moats is a superstar, but he doesn't fumble and had a good game. That's all we need, we aren't a running team, we aren't the giants.
]
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Check out the picture on the houstontexans home page...

http://www.houstontexans.com/index2.html

(you have to click on the #4 tab and it's the "triple threat" headline).


THAT IS WHY HE'S PUTTING THE BALL ON THE GROUND.

Look at his carry technique compared to Moats and Brown.. Both Moats and Brown keep the ball high and tight and stretch their thumb out across the ball (almost a 90 degree angle in reference to the tip of the ball). Moats has the best technique on the team, Brown's is okay, and Slaton just flat out carries the ball like a loaf of bread. :rolleyes: Slaton is having a sophmore slump from hell and I don't think he's going to get it fixed this season.
 
that's a good picture of steve's problem. even bringing a second hand in preparing for a hit, look at how much of the ball is showing compared to the other two with just one arm. he's carrying the ball with his palms up, elbow at a 90 degree angle, and the ball's around his midsection. both brown and moats have their hand on the outside the football, elbow bent at a sharper angle to squeeze and shield the ball, and the ball held much higher towards the chest.
 
unreals said:
Kubiak has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't trust Slaton, and I don't understand how Slaton could now trust him.
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I don't see any reason why Kubiak should trust him. Slaton has demonstrated repeatedly that he cannot be trusted to secure the ball. What is worse is that the fumble vs. the Bills was not even forced. If you go back and watch the re[play in slo-mo, you see that Slaton just dropped it!

Slaton needs to be given opportunities to earn back trust, but at this point, he has to earn it. No one should trust him to secure the ball. He will get those opportunities because he is a way better back than Moats. What he does with those chances is all on him.
 
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813f856a/WK-9-Playbook-Texans-vs-Colts


Skip over to where they talk about Texans RBs and you'll see the differences between their running styles. Unreals, your describing Slaton as some Hall of Fame RB, but he's not. He has the potential to be, but he's not. First he has to learn how to hold the ball correctly, and then use his blockers. He needs to atleast make some cuts and get it into his head that his blockers won't do everything for him. Moats has a better field vision so why not bench Slaton and put in a RB that single-handedly motivated the team to blow the bills out!

P.S- I love Slaton and it's hard for me to bash him like this, but it's the truth guys

:hothboy: << LOL
 
Heh, that video does say a lot. I like Baldinger's jab at the Texans at the beginning, because I have often thought the same thing.
 
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.
 
unreals said:
Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.
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Do we really need a superstar running back or just several the understand how the ZBS works and how they have to run. Moats hit the LOS so much faster than Slaton, and he was making use of some very small holes, Denver ran many 1000+ unknown rushers that were very good at using the ZBS.
 
unreals said:
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.
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Brian Westbrook was constantly injured when the Eagles tried to get him 30 or more touches per game. Since then, he had 20 or more touches in 4 games last year, and has yet to do so this year (that is rushes + receptions). By the way, Kubiak has gotten Slaton involved to that extent in 4 games this year so far and it is only half over -- pretty odd that you say he needs to be used more, like Westbrook, when he is used more than Westbrook is already. Westbrook's highest number of carries this year is 13, and he hasn't had double digit carries since week 2. Granted, that is because he is injured yet again. Because he isn't big enough to be an every down back.
 
unreals said:
If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, yada yada yada...yak yak yak...
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WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???


First things first....

unreals said:
If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.
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Umm, Kubiak would love nothing more than have the ability to build his offense around a running back and a strong running game (infact it possibly cost him two victories in the first 3 games), but Slaton keeps putting the damn ball on the ground everytime he tries to go to Slaton and on top of that, he's lost some of his quickness/explosiveness because Slaton decided to add weght during the offseason (and people please spare me the "he's still quick and fast as ever" crap......I still have all the game tape of him last year.....he's not the same player). I even mentioned as much this past offseason....I WATCHED this guy throughout his college career, I saw this coming (but even I couldn't predict that he would fall this far)

I mean you're really going to question Kubiak and Gibbs....the two guys who never had a problem with finding a creative way to use a RB in their careers, but don't question Slaton?

unreals said:
Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?
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LMFAO!!! Ahman Green...you do know that the guy who Kubiak allowed to "hold Slaton down last year" only carried the ball 74 TIMES all of last season......that's only 4.6 carries a game. :rolleyes: Whew! you are funny, what a joke. You do realize EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE NFL has a #2 back? Even Adrian Peterson has Chester Taylor :rolleyes:

As far as Chris Brown, he was never signed to take Slaton's carries. He was signed to help on short goal line carries.....where Slaton struggled last season. (where Houston struggled horribly last season.) That was NOT anything against Slaton, it was just the same thing that EVERY NFL TEAM DOES. (especially teams that have smallish RBs who struggle at the goal line).

As far as the "totally unprofessional move". Kubiak was just being honest...yeah, if they knew then, what they know now...they would like to have the "NFL's LEADING RUSHER" when their back is getting tackled in the backfield and laying the ball on the ground every single game. (LMAO, who wouldn't want the NFL's leading rusher?)

unreals said:
I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles
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Again, WTF are you talking about? Shanahan lost ALOT of those runners because they either wanted high priced contracts (way more than they were worth to keep) or other teams offered a kings' ransom for them (alot more than they were worth).......please point to where that has happened here.. Please point to where either

A. Slaton entered the end of his contract and another team offered him a expensive FA contract

or

B. A team offered a trade that you just couldn't turn down for Steve Slaton...

Unless either of those things have happened you simply have no clue of what you're talking about.

Also LMAO at the "Forget Slaton's fumbles".....yeah, let's all just "forget the most important thing that EVERY HEAD COACH ASKS A YOUNG PLAYER TO DO." Which is to HOLD ON TO THE DAMN BALL! Truth is on any other team that was trying to make a push for the playoffs, Slaton would've been benched a LONG time ago. Even Slaton knows this.



unreals said:
Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).
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And this couldn't be further from the truth, Kubiak said Slaton was "drafted to be a third down back".....guess what? Every team in the league had that grade on him...it's the reason why he went in the middle of the 3rd round. Kubiak then praised Slaton for how much he exceeded their expectations....which is nothing like the spin you're trying to put out. My god, this is the same coach who dispite benching Slaton for fumbling the ball, told Slaton that the team still needs him and they still believe in him (but you forgot that.)

There is nothing Kubiak would love more than for Slaton to get his **** together and be the runner that he was last year and the fact that he hasn't been the back that he was last year isn't anybody's fault except his own.

IT'S SLATON'S FAULT.... Kubiak has done nothing but put him in situations where he could succeed, which is why when it became apparent Slaton couldn't run the ball like he did last year, Kubiak started getting involved on screens just so he could find ways to get the ball in his hands. Hell Kubiak has practically been wiping the guy's ass this year. :rolleyes: God forbid if he had a coach like Belichick. I don't know many coaches who would put up with a 3.1 ypc runner that put the ball on the ground 7 damn times in only 8 games :rolleyes:
 
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unreals said:
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.
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where was all this concern about Slaton's fragile feelings during draft day?
remember when there was a great cry - from some - that we should draft a RB to take the load off Slaton because some were worried that we'd run him into the ground?

I don't recall this concern about his psyche then. Even those of us who weren't absolutely p.o.'d that we didn't draft a RB were hoping that one of the UDFA would take some of the load off of Slaton's shoulders. So now Moats has stepped up and has shown the potential to be able to do just that - to keep Slaton from being worn down, now there's a problem with it??? What changed?

I don't get it. This isn't a problem. It's a blessing. Make use of them both and go with whoever's hot.
 
Slaton will bounce back he is a playmaker supreme and has just been going through a rough patch, all good running backs have them it all depends on how they deal with it. I believe in Steve Slaton he is our best running back hands down and no one said this last season when he lead the AFC in total yards from scrimmage.
 
Pharoh- I appreciate your lone voice of reason.

Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do, you are violently arguing the "majority" view- Slaton is a fumbler, they should sit his ass down, etc. At least you didn't shout "he sucks!" That was kind of you. You fail to understand the big picture, or to put this into a larger perspective, which is par for the course from typical fans.

Nothing happens in a vacuum- your fan like "hunch" that Slaton wasn't running well, backed up I'm certain by a series of loud "I told yous," may play well with other bandwagon type mentalities, but they don't impress anyone who has the least bit of insight. Slaton's fumbling has unquestionably been exacerbated by Kubiak's initial response to his first fumble. That's not even debatable. Now, perhaps he still would have a fumbling problem if Kubiak had been more patient with him, not blasted him publicly about it and not yanked him angrily from the game each time he put the ball on the ground. We'll never know, because he never reacted any other way than in knee jerk anger. Because the fumbling problem only got worse, obviously Kubiak's reaction to it didn't help. Again- not even debatable.

So many of the posts on this forum provide concrete proof about the lack of respect Slaton has received from everyone in Houston. Do you guys even understand how his rookie season stacked up against other outstanding running backs in NFL history? Of course, that's not important to you, because he's down now and you're following the lead of "your" head coach by kicking him instead of helping him up. When Slaton gets a chance to shine again (here or elsewhere), you will forget your hard ass words and cheer him as loudly as the next bandwagon fan (at least if he's still a Texan). You will also forget who Ryan Moats is just as quickly. Your comparison of Slaton to Wali Lundy really reveals your lack of knowledge- Lundy was a very, very brief flash in the plan (probably much like Moats will be), while Slaton had a super productive rookie year. Apples and Oranges.

Again, give me an example of any team making RB a high priority after their rookie RB has put up the kind of numbers Slaton did. You won't even bother, because it's an unparalleled situation. Also, give me another example of a head coach commenting publicly on his team's failure to sign a free agent, in terms that most of us would consider to be regretful. You won't find any examples of this, either, because coaches typically don't comment on things like that. Your mob mentality is showing. Reading some of these comments reminds one of why public hangings used to be so popular.
 
unreals said:
Pharoh- I appreciate your lone voice of reason.

Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do, you are violently arguing the "majority" view- Slaton is a fumbler, they should sit his ass down, etc. At least you didn't shout "he sucks!" That was kind of you. You fail to understand the big picture, or to put this into a larger perspective, which is par for the course from typical fans.

Nothing happens in a vacuum- your fan like "hunch" that Slaton wasn't running well, backed up I'm certain by a series of loud "I told yous," may play well with other bandwagon type mentalities, but they don't impress anyone who has the least bit of insight. Slaton's fumbling has unquestionably been exacerbated by Kubiak's initial response to his first fumble. That's not even debatable. Now, perhaps he still would have a fumbling problem if Kubiak had been more patient with him, not blasted him publicly about it and not yanked him angrily from the game each time he put the ball on the ground. We'll never know, because he never reacted any other way than in knee jerk anger. Because the fumbling problem only got worse, obviously Kubiak's reaction to it didn't help. Again- not even debatable.

So many of the posts on this forum provide concrete proof about the lack of respect Slaton has received from everyone in Houston. Do you guys even understand how his rookie season stacked up against other outstanding running backs in NFL history? Of course, that's not important to you, because he's down now and you're following the lead of "your" head coach by kicking him instead of helping him up. When Slaton gets a chance to shine again (here or elsewhere), you will forget your hard ass words and cheer him as loudly as the next bandwagon fan (at least if he's still a Texan). You will also forget who Ryan Moats is just as quickly. Your comparison of Slaton to Wali Lundy really reveals your lack of knowledge- Lundy was a very, very brief flash in the plan (probably much like Moats will be), while Slaton had a super productive rookie year. Apples and Oranges.

Again, give me an example of any team making RB a high priority after their rookie RB has put up the kind of numbers Slaton did. You won't even bother, because it's an unparalleled situation. Also, give me another example of a head coach commenting publicly on his team's failure to sign a free agent, in terms that most of us would consider to be regretful. You won't find any examples of this, either, because coaches typically don't comment on things like that. Your mob mentality is showing. Reading some of these comments reminds one of why public hangings used to be so popular.
Click to expand...

Great post for the franchise running back and that's how you show love baby boy and I hope Steve Slaton go off on the colts this weekend.
 
unreals, I think you're being totally insincere in your latest posts. They go way beyond just having different a opinion. You're ignoring any responses to your totally baseless assertions.

In my opinion, you need to be banned for being a troll.
 
Right. There's no evidence whatsoever that Slaton has played like crap this year -- only hunches. You said they aren't getting him the ball enough and need to use him like Brian Westbrook. I pointed out that I'd be happy if they did since Westbrook touches the ball less than Slaton does, which also makes a mockery of your assertion that Kubiak hates poor Stevie and needs to learn from Reid. If Kubiak did, he'd use Slaton even less and you'd probably pop a blood vessel.

You have an odd tendency of saying hotly debated topics that you have completely ignored responses to are "not even debatable." I guess it's not a debate when you ignore everything you don't like. It's just you spouting the same tired disproven crap.
 
It's more a case of "what have you done for me lately" the attention span of the average sport fan is atrocious, how easily they forget! But I seriously doubt these coaches or teammates forget which will be on display Sunday in Indianaplois. A team that stays together, plays together, it's that us against the world mentality that make Texans such a good road team 3-1 while 2-2 @ home.

The key to beating the Colts is simple. Run the ball effectively so you control the clock, thus keeping the defense fresh & do not turn the ball over. Everybody needs to play a clean game & just execute. :texflag:
 
redwhiteANDblue said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813f856a/WK-9-Playbook-Texans-vs-Colts


Skip over to where they talk about Texans RBs and you'll see the differences between their running styles. Unreals, your describing Slaton as some Hall of Fame RB, but he's not. He has the potential to be, but he's not. First he has to learn how to hold the ball correctly, and then use his blockers. He needs to atleast make some cuts and get it into his head that his blockers won't do everything for him. Moats has a better field vision so why not bench Slaton and put in a RB that single-handedly motivated the team to blow the bills out!

P.S- I love Slaton and it's hard for me to bash him like this, but it's the truth guys

:hothboy: << LOL
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I watched McFadden do the exact same thing early this season in a game against the Chargers. He was carrying the ball low, and I told everyone in the room he was about to fumble. Sure enough, it happen two plays later.

The good thing is that the problem is correctable. It just takes discipline. Some players need to be benched to cease the reinforcement of bad habits. I'm a huge Slaton fan, and I'm confident he'll bounce back.
 
Unreals is not a Texans fan.......he's a Steve Slaton fan. Just check out his post history, Slaton is the only thing he talks about. Anybody who's actually a fan of this team can realize how Slaton has hurt us and wouldn't be looking for other people to pass blame onto.
 
unreals said:
Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do ...
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Dude, you are the worst poster we've had since JohnsonFan. First of all, try responding with reason to the responses that people have granted you. Second, you evidently don't know JACK about "bandwagon" fans, since we've all been here since the beginning. We've been discussing the team and supporting the team (most of us monetarily) since the beginning. We sat in the stands through 2-14. I'd continue my line of thought, but I'm going to honor the board rules and take it easy on you.

Marcus said:
unreals, I think you're being totally insincere in your latest posts. They go way beyond just having different a opinion. You're ignoring any responses to your totally baseless assertions.

In my opinion, you need to be banned for being a troll.
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I agree.

Carr Bombed said:
Unreals is not a Texans fan.......he's a Steve Slaton fan. Just check out his post history, Slaton is the only thing he talks about. Anybody who's actually a fan of this team can realize how Slaton has hurt us and wouldn't be looking for other people to pass blame onto.
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That's about as bandwagon as it gets. Didn't we have a few fans of another specific player that disappeared when said player did? Hmmmm ....

Unreals, either engage or STFU. You asserted XYZ, people rebutted. All you've done since is repeat yourself with no basis in fact.
 
I'm really afraid to see what the reprecussions are going to be, not just in terms of Slaton's playing time but also to his pysche, if he puts the ball on the turf again against the Colts. You could see how frustrated he was after his last fumble and how thin Kubiak's patience is getting by the benching
 
The Cush said:
I'm really afraid to see what the reprecussions are going to be, not just in terms of Slaton's playing time but also to his pysche, if he puts the ball on the turf again against the Colts. You could see how frustrated he was after his last fumble and how thin Kubiak's patience is getting by the benching
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Whatever they are, they will have been earned. You can't continually screw up that drastically at your job without consequences.
 
eriadoc said:
Whatever they are, they will have been earned. You can't continually screw up that drastically at your job without consequences.
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Yep, they will definately be earned...but my main worry is though, are these fumbles going to start affecting Slaton's play/living up to his potential? He's an extremely promising young player with tons of upside, will his next fumble be a breaking point that permanently affects head where he's afraid to do the things that have made him successful in the past because he's so worried about fumbling, thus impeding his growth as a player? One of my favorite attributes of Slaton is his will to fight for every yard after initital contact, constantly churning his feet to move the pile. Will he feel the need to abandon this to be more conservative with the ball?
 
Slaton is not only fumbling, but he's no longer doing the one-cut style
that made him so effective last year. Everytime the offensive line
slides to the outside, Slaton ALWAYS tries to bounce the ball outside.
He's not seeing that cutback lane which Moats exploited all game long!
It's a short window to get in there, but you've got to GET IN THERE.

If Steve were to do so, he'd get his 5 yards a carry, plus the one on one
with a linebacker or DB. If he would get back to doing the one-cut, which
Moats and Brown (although not as effective) are, he'd be the feature back
we know he could be!
 
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