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Should Cj Stroud be in the MVP conversation?

thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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I don't think so.

First, let me say the MVP conversation should be about the best player in the league this year. That guy is usually on a contender. The rest of the NFL doesn't think the Texans are a contender. Based on that alone I can understand why people bring up this question. No doubt no one is playing better than Bryce Cj Stroud right now. He should be in the conversation for that. But he's a rookie, he's on a bad team, so he shouldn't be in the conversation.

I personally think the Texans are contenders. Yes. I said it. So I think he will win the MVP whether he's in the conversation or not.

This next one is really good


https://youtu.be/2_L2ZPBzcnA?si=ElInH3wUuxbAbeca


What do you think?
 
Came across this chart of rookie QB's of the past.

www.statmuse.com

Most Passing Yards By A Rookie Quarterback In NFL History | StatMuse

Andrew Luck has the most passing yards by a rookie quarterback, with 4,374 yards in 2012.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com

CJ is fitting right in with all these guys. He is on pace to shatter the most passing yards for a rookie (4,960 yards projected). Andrew Luck currently has the most with 4,374 yards.

------------------------------------------------------

Justin Herbert had one of the best rookie QB seasons. CJ may or may not surpass Herbert's 289.1 yds/game or his 31 TDs but he should finish in the neighborhood.

------------------------------------------------------

Dak Prescott had an impressive rookie year in 2016 with 23 TDs, 4 INTs (best) and a 104.9 rating (best).

------------------------------------------------------

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs as a rookie.
 
If I remember correctly CJ has had a QBR of the same or higher than what most consider "MVP candidates at QB". Now on the other side of the ball I honestly haven't been paying attention. Mr Garrett was playing like a man possessed...but no idea if he is still
 
You guys are definitely considered contenders here in Jax. CJ is already OROY at the very least, even if he doesn't play another snap. It's going to be another beat down in 2 weeks if we don't regroup after getting smashed by the 9ers today. And BTW, thanks for the blueprint on how to beat the Bengals; we'll see if we can take advantage of it in a few weeks.
 
I don’t know if there is anything more valuable in the NFL than an elite QB on a rookie contract.

Halfway through the season and it’s trending up, time will tell but to go from 2nd in the draft order to beating the Bengals is about as could as could be right now.
 
KA4Texan said:
MVP or not.... CJ is a uniter.

Look at this forum... even pessimistic mockers are finding hope and sipping on some koolaid..... complaining about the temperature of course... but the flavor is still sweet.

IF not MVP now, its sure only a case of "yet".
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I resemble that remark ;)

You are right though. If what we are seeing is what he is going to be routinely doing then he is the kind of player we have not seen before with the Texans. A potential MVP candidate going into any given season.
 
Arky said:
Came across this chart of rookie QB's of the past.

www.statmuse.com

Most Passing Yards By A Rookie Quarterback In NFL History | StatMuse

Andrew Luck has the most passing yards by a rookie quarterback, with 4,374 yards in 2012.
www.statmuse.com www.statmuse.com

CJ is fitting right in with all these guys. He is on pace to shatter the most passing yards for a rookie (4,960 yards projected). Andrew Luck currently has the most with 4,374 yards.

------------------------------------------------------

Justin Herbert had one of the best rookie QB seasons. CJ may or may not surpass Herbert's 289.1 yds/game or his 31 TDs but he should finish in the neighborhood.

------------------------------------------------------

Dak Prescott had an impressive rookie year in 2016 with 23 TDs, 4 INTs (best) and a 104.9 rating (best).

------------------------------------------------------

Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs as a rookie.
Click to expand...
Only thing I don't like about this is Luck, Herbert, & Prescott ain't won nothing.
 
thunderkyss said:
Only thing I don't like about this is Luck, Herbert, & Prescott ain't won nothing.
Click to expand...

It's just an individual stat comparison. It's been kinda fun so far watching CJ break records....

They really should have included Patrick Mahomes 2nd year in this list. He played one game in 2017 so that seems to count as his rookie year. In 2018, he played the full season and exploded for 5,097 yards, 50 TDs, 12 Ints with a 113.8 rating.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think so.

First, let me say the MVP conversation should be about the best player in the league this year. That guy is usually on a contender. The rest of the NFL doesn't think the Texans are a contender. Based on that alone I can understand why people bring up this question. No doubt no one is playing better than Bryce Cj Stroud right now. He should be in the conversation for that. But he's a rookie, he's on a bad team, so he shouldn't be in the conversation.

I personally think the Texans are contenders. Yes. I said it. So I think he will win the MVP whether he's in the conversation or not.

This next one is really good


https://youtu.be/2_L2ZPBzcnA?si=ElInH3wUuxbAbeca


What do you think?
Click to expand...
He’s a rookie on a bad team?? What f****** games are you watching? I’ll admit I’m slower than others in taking the koolaid out of the fridge, but the Texans aren’t sitting in the 3rd WC spot after 10 weeks (Bills game pending) if CJ Stroud isn’t playing like he is.

No question he should be in the conversation. Is he the favorite? No. But he’s in the conversation.
 
Speedy said:
He’s a rookie on a bad team??
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Are you saying he's not a rookie & the Texans aren't historically dysfunctional? Because that's what I mean when I say he's a rookie on a bad team. My bad, I tried to convey that in the context of my post.

Sooner or later we're going to be talking about this team regressing to it's means. That's who "we" "think" the Texans are. Is this "for real" is this the "new normal" ?

Those kinds of questions. Probably during the off season.
 
TejasTom said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1723800431212552670
Click to expand...

Let's put it this way. He is no question in the conversation. However, I don't think he will win it unless we keep winning and make the playoffs even as the 8th seed. Then and only then if he is still playing like he has been could he win. Until then, a vet like Mr Garrett just for a name of someone playing lights out will get the nod I'm fairly sure. But, I have learned fast not to bet against CJ. This kid is special
 
I guess I am biased.

The Texans had 3 wins last year. They were considered by many to be the worst situation in football.

They have beat the Saints, Steelers, Buccaneers, Bengals, Jaguars and have surpassed last seasons total with 8 games remaining.

Who should be over him? Have yet to see a decent argument other than best player on a winning team.
 
thunderkyss said:
Are you saying he's not a rookie & the Texans aren't historically dysfunctional? Because that's what I mean when I say he's a rookie on a bad team. My bad, I tried to convey that in the context of my post.

Sooner or later we're going to be talking about this team regressing to it's means. That's who "we" "think" the Texans are. Is this "for real" is this the "new normal" ?

Those kinds of questions. Probably during the off season.
Click to expand...

What does his service time have to do with anything if he’s playing lights out? In fact, the fact that he is a rookie playing the way he is should put him in the MVP conversation even more.

And the Texans history has nothing to do with 2023. Are you saying Stroud can’t be considered for an MVP because of the Texans past the last 2 decades? If so, that’s stupid, and if not, why even bring it up? If anything, Stroud is well on the way to changing all of that.

And just to keep it real, I understand it’s only been 9 games. I get it. Not giving him a gold jacket just yet. But to say he’s not in the MVP conversation with the way everybody has played through 10 weeks so far is also stupid.

And if the Texans regress or Stroud hits a wall then so be it. That’s usually the norm. But through 10 weeks we are where we are. And even MVPs and MVP candidates have bad weeks. Just look at his counterpart Sunday with 2 picks.
 
(as of November 11)

Top 10 ranked defenses the Texans have played this year:
2) Ravens
6) Falcons
7) Saints
8) Panthers

I'm very excited about how Stroud has played thus far. That said, he (and the rest of the offense) struggled at times against those four teams.

The final games on the schedule and their total 2023 NFL Defense Rankings: Team Pass and Rush Stats | FOX Sports defensive ranking:
Cardinals 24
Jags 23
Broncos 32
Jets 9
Titans 20
Browns 1
Titans 20
Colts 26

Note: the Bengals defense was ranked 27th going into Sunday.

For me, Stroud has to show improvement against top defenses over what he's done so far to be the MVP frontrunner. He's got two more shots at it.

Of course, the Texans will probably need to end the season above .500 for Stroud to be considered. I don't care how good a player has performed, if you're a quarterback and your team finishes the season on a whimper (like so many Texans teams have done in the past, even the good ones), I don't feel you're a top candidate. Patrick Mahomes, Burrow, Jackson, all the same to me.
 
Speedy said:
And the Texans history has nothing to do with 2023. Are you saying Stroud can’t be considered for an MVP because of the Texans past the last 2 decades? If so, that’s stupid, and if not, why even bring it up? If anything, Stroud is well on the way to changing all of that.
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Speedy said:
But to say he’s not in the MVP conversation with the way everybody has played through 10 weeks so far is also stupid.
Click to expand...

Last year about this time Tua Togovialoa was in the MVP conversation. At the end of the season he was not. At that time people could look back & say... "The Dolphins were who we thought they were & Tua shouldn't have even been in the conversation."
 
TK’s original post was such a mess and unclear that I still have no idea what he is trying to say. Just generally on the subject..CJ is now in the conversation, but he will have to have at least several more games similar to the last two to get into front runner status. To win it, he has to be the clear #1 guy. They don’t want to give it to a rookie unless he is head and shoulders above the field.
 
thunderkyss said:
Last year about this time Tua Togovialoa was in the MVP conversation. At the end of the season he was not. At that time people could look back & say... "The Dolphins were who we thought they were & Tua shouldn't have even been in the conversation."
Click to expand...

I don't know why you keep trying to bring stuff up from the past when CJ wasn't even in the league yet. None of that has anything to do with 2023.

Look, there's a lot of football left. Like I said, if CJ hits a wall and the Texans regress, then so be it. That's only expected because it's the norm. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen and 10 weeks into the season, CJ absolutely can be in that conversation. Dude is ballin'. Can he be in that conversation 8 weeks from now? Who knows? But after 10 weeks, he's in the convo.

It seems like Mills the last 2 years was getting more support from some of you guys than you're giving CJ. I can't recall if you were one of those or not, but it's funny how people circle the wagons for mediocre players and over criticize the players that have actual talent.
 
Speedy said:
I don't know why you keep trying to bring stuff up from the past when CJ wasn't even in the league yet. None of that has anything to do with 2023.
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I'm talking about the MVP race & how it played out last year. I think it's relevant.
Speedy said:
Look, there's a lot of football left. Like I said, if CJ hits a wall and the Texans regress, then so be it. That's only expected because it's the norm.
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Exactly. That's the argument being used against a rookie on a "bad" franchise. That's who the Texans are. We're hoping Cj turns it around. But this is who the Texans are.

Speedy said:
It seems like Mills the last 2 years was getting more support from some of you guys than you're giving CJ. I can't recall if you were one of those or not, but it's funny how people circle the wagons for mediocre players and over criticize the players that have actual talent.
Click to expand...
Interesting that you take this as criticism of Cj Stroud. I haven't said one critical statement about Stroud. I'm definitely on the bandwagon & I'm hoping he becomes the MVP. The question isn't do I think Cj Stroud is playing at an MVP level. I think he is. The question is does he belong in the conversation. I argue no. Because he's a rookie, because he's on a historically bad franchise that has a habit of stepping on their own johnson from time to time.

Cj Stroud shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Cj Stroud shouldn't be playing at the level he is. But he is in the conversation. He is playing as well as he is. Cool.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm talking about the MVP race & how it played out last year. I think it's relevant.

Exactly. That's the argument being used against a rookie on a "bad" franchise. That's who the Texans are. We're hoping Cj turns it around. But this is who the Texans are.


Interesting that you take this as criticism of Cj Stroud. I haven't said one critical statement about Stroud. I'm definitely on the bandwagon & I'm hoping he becomes the MVP. The question isn't do I think Cj Stroud is playing at an MVP level. I think he is. The question is does he belong in the conversation. I argue no. Because he's a rookie, because he's on a historically bad franchise that has a habit of stepping on their own johnson from time to time.

Cj Stroud shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Cj Stroud shouldn't be playing at the level he is. But he is in the conversation. He is playing as well as he is. Cool.
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Again, the past has NOTHING to do with weeks 1-10 of the 2023 season. Should the Lions just shut it down now because they haven’t done anything in 70 years? That’s just a stupid argument.

So, YOU think he’s playing at an MVP level but don’t think he should be in the MVP conversation? That makes no f****** sense. And especially because of your reasons. YOU are giving him the baggage of the Texans past and his service time as reasons to keep him out of MVP talk despite the level of play he’s playing at that YOU said is MVP level? That makes no f****** sense.

Just make sense dude.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm talking about the MVP race & how it played out last year. I think it's relevant.

Exactly. That's the argument being used against a rookie on a "bad" franchise. That's who the Texans are. We're hoping Cj turns it around. But this is who the Texans are.


Interesting that you take this as criticism of Cj Stroud. I haven't said one critical statement about Stroud. I'm definitely on the bandwagon & I'm hoping he becomes the MVP. The question isn't do I think Cj Stroud is playing at an MVP level. I think he is. The question is does he belong in the conversation. I argue no. Because he's a rookie, because he's on a historically bad franchise that has a habit of stepping on their own johnson from time to time.

Cj Stroud shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Cj Stroud shouldn't be playing at the level he is. But he is in the conversation. He is playing as well as he is. Cool.
Click to expand...
The Colts just came off a 2-14 season.
Talks of Luck as an MVP started a little earlier than today in 2012, when the Colts were 5-3

bleacherreport.com

Has Andrew Luck Put Himself in the MVP Race with Surging Colts?

Andrew Luck deserves to be in the 2012 NFL MVP race despite being a rookie, period. As the immediate signal-caller for the Indianapolis Colts upon being the No. 1 draft selection in April, Luck has gone above and beyond expectations so far...
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com

In the conversation here is more of a way to say that the guy is playing very well.
 
Speedy said:
Again, the past has NOTHING to do with weeks 1-10 of the 2023 season. Should the Lions just shut it down now because they haven’t done anything in 70 years? That’s just a stupid argument.
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We're talking about people talking. The talking heads specifically. Yeah if the talking heads are talking about the Lions winning the Super Bowl, they should stop.

Speedy said:
YOU are giving him the baggage of the Texans past and his service time as reasons to keep him out of MVP talk despite the level of play he’s playing at that YOU said is MVP level? That makes no f****** sense.
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I agree. Doesn't make sense. That's just the way it is. Texans are more than likely to lose out than they are to win out. Cj's going to take the hit for that.
 
Last week Parsons and Gilmore talked Stroud. Posted that one in the Welcome to Houston Stroud thread. Another week - another video from Parsons. This is what contemporaries think of Stroud.

Micah on CJ Stroud | Highlights and Live Video from Bleacher Report

Fan easier, fan faster and fan better with Bleacher Report. Keep up with the latest storylines, expert analysis, highlights and scores for all your favorite sports.
bleacherreport.com bleacherreport.com
 
I'm not sure. I just don't want the team to get too high because there's a lot of work to be done.

I think CJs "valuable" is quantified in other ways than statistically but he's also putting up nice stats too, and mostly clean sheets despite a horrible OL and a banged up defense that isn't helping matters.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm talking about the MVP race & how it played out last year. I think it's relevant.

Exactly. That's the argument being used against a rookie on a "bad" franchise. That's who the Texans are. We're hoping Cj turns it around. But this is who the Texans are.


Interesting that you take this as criticism of Cj Stroud. I haven't said one critical statement about Stroud. I'm definitely on the bandwagon & I'm hoping he becomes the MVP. The question isn't do I think Cj Stroud is playing at an MVP level. I think he is. The question is does he belong in the conversation. I argue no. Because he's a rookie, because he's on a historically bad franchise that has a habit of stepping on their own johnson from time to time.

Cj Stroud shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Cj Stroud shouldn't be playing at the level he is. But he is in the conversation. He is playing as well as he is. Cool.
Click to expand...

You talk in more circles than a certain orange man. Your points are getting lost. I picture a dog chasing its own tail. Nick has nothing on you. You should teach a word salad class to Nick. He is playing checkers. You're word salad game is 3D chess.
 
Porky said:
TK’s original post was such a mess and unclear that I still have no idea what he is trying to say. Just generally on the subject..CJ is now in the conversation, but he will have to have at least several more games similar to the last two to get into front runner status. To win it, he has to be the clear #1 guy. They don’t want to give it to a rookie unless he is head and shoulders above the field.
Click to expand...
I think what TK meant to say was, "yes, no, if this, if that, maybe Stroud" should be in the discussion for MVP.

I think right now, yes, Stroud s/b in the conversation. That said, had Boyd held on in the endzone, we're not having this conversation today. Last minute heroics aside, Stroud had two fumbles and a terrible interception yesterday as well as a low (59%) completion percentage. You're not going to get that lucky often in the NFL. If he's to stay in the conversation for MVP, he needs to raise his completion percentage. Highest completion % is owned by Allen at 71.3. For comparison sake, Bryce Young is 25th in the NFL completing just 62.8. Stroud has completed just 61.1% of his passes on the season, just .3 percentage points above benched Kenny Pickett.
 
banned1976 said:
I think what TK meant to say was, "yes, no, if this, if that, maybe Stroud" should be in the discussion for MVP.

I think right now, yes, Stroud s/b in the conversation. That said, had Boyd held on in the endzone, we're not having this conversation today. Last minute heroics aside, Stroud had two fumbles and a terrible interception yesterday as well as a low (59%) completion percentage. You're not going to get that lucky often in the NFL. If he's to stay in the conversation for MVP, he needs to raise his completion percentage. Highest completion % is owned by Allen at 71.3. For comparison sake, Bryce Young is 25th in the NFL completing just 62.8. Stroud has completed just 61.1% of his passes on the season, just .3 percentage points above benched Kenny Pickett.
Click to expand...

Or if Boyd had held on in the endzone we could be having a conversation about a game winning TD drive similar to last week versus Tampa..
 
Thorn said:
More national media talk about Stroud and less about Taylor Swift works for me.
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taylor-swift-sexy.gif
 
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