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Schaub injured (update)
- Thread starter TexansFanatic
- Start date
We were able to get a lead in that game. They were predictable, our defense went to work.
It's possible, that we won't be able to make a first down on, their defense cause a turnover, get an easy score..... & we're playing from behind.
Arian Foster gained 3.4 ypc..... MJD gained 3.5.... their running game didn't fall off the face of the Earth, their passing game was too weak to provide the necessary compliment.
If Lienart resorts to the guy he was in Arizona, we've effectively become the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Third, (and maybe this should have been first) our defense, which has forced turnovers from the likes of Roethlisberger, Flacco, and Brees is facing a rookie QB. Last time we faced him we picked him off twice. We've gotten at least one turnover in EVERY GAME; most games we get two. I look for our D to force him into more mistakes this time too.
This
must stop people.
Jaxonville has a defense too..
Wolf
100% Texan
will be interesting with this also
TheRedzoneorg The Redzone
Jaguars lose CB Rashean Mathis to torn ACL http://tinyurl.com/7rtabhr #NFL #Jaguars
TheRedzoneorg The Redzone
Jaguars lose CB Rashean Mathis to torn ACL http://tinyurl.com/7rtabhr #NFL #Jaguars
He has to push off with his foot, cross over during his back peddle, etc. A severe grade of Lisfranc could be very, very career threatening. The best news I've heard is that Schaub will be in a walking boot til next week when he's getting another opinion. The fact that he's being allowed to walk is cause for optimism. My biggest concern is for next year. A contract year and this injury? If Leinart plays merely OK it could lead to a controversy. We don't need this in my version of a Texans Super Bowl legacy that included a 3-peat.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
On the possible good side, since he is not an RB or WR or or TE or DB or LB or lineman, his running ability or push off against resistance is not a hallmark of his game, even if it turns out to be a Lisfranc, his long term prognosis for a return and continued adequate performance eventually can still be possible.
All good points, but the point was not that the Titans will win out & we will. The point is that they are not so far behind that we need to go on some "incredible" losing streak.
I've got faith in the Texans, but I've always said 10 games won't necessarily win the AFC South.
In all this, I've failed to recognize which foot has the injury. If it's his right foot, it could very well be a problem for the rest of Schaub's life. The part of the foot that involves Lisfranc injuries doesn't get injured often, but when it does, it's extremely painful and very susceptible to arthritis. What are your thoughts and opinions on this, CND?
Goatcheese
Texan
I vote we cut Schaub's foot off and give him a prosthetic.
Let's do this, you'll be fine.
Let's do this, you'll be fine.
You're such a douche bag!!!! LOLI vote we cut Schaub's foot off and give him a prosthetic.
Let's do this, you'll be fine.
Nawzer
Alienz
You're right about him having to move around, but I was assuming that he would rehab well and that he won't have a mobility issue. But this is a type of injury that can be tricky, but I have confidence in the Texans medical staff and the top notch doctor(s) that are going to take care of him.
redwhiteANDblue
Veteran
after the QB sneak, he looked over at the Bucs Bench
Respawning new leg in 3..2...1
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Is this true or are you only joking?
Lurvinator11
Veteran
No he legit said that. I was listening as well and even made a comment on it in another thread
The best news I've heard from Fortress Kubiak is that Schaub is in a boot and allowed to walk. That's the best prognosis I can think of at this stage. Baby steps, my friend.
Nawzer
Alienz
Could be an inflammatory response just like how your gums may swell in response to a bacterial infection. I hope he doesn't wait too long to get it taken care of.
TexansFanatic
Extremist
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That would be more consistent with a Lisfranc rather than an isolated fracture. And it doesn't surprise me that his foot would be blown up like that since he has been allowed to walk around in a boot with his foot in dependent (down) position instead of maintaining his foot elevated above his heart. I just don't get the latter at all. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that as a consequence a blood vessel popped giving additional cause for such extensive swelling.
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Oh you just crapped on my heart. Is this Kubes NOT "being smart" with an injury? Could this have been made worse by Schaub playing an extra quarter? I'm already fairly convinced that the injury could've been lessened by Leinart coming in after the 1st drive of the 2nd half. The game was well in hand by then and the Texans could've gotten agme-time experience in for both back up QB's by then.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
DocBar,
His injury was to the RIGHT foot. You are absolutely correct.... patients suffering Lisfranc injury virtually always are accompanied by chronic pain and the development of arthritic changes.......the extent is variable, but in some cases can be debilitating. With it being his plant foot, this could be of greater concern.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In my opening statement, I meant to say "MORE consistent."
GP
Go Texans!
This is my biggest gripe, too.
Leinart comes in and does nothing but hand off to the RB. There was not a single pass play, for obvious reasons--We had the lead, we were burning clock.
But still...it bothers me that Leinart's first pass play in a real game in 2011 comes after a bye week. And on the road. And against a decent defense.
I know we can't alter time and space. We can't undo what's been did. But it would have been nice to see Leinart get some passes out of his left hand vs. the Bucs when the game was far out of reach for Tampa Bay.
Damn. Schaub has never been mobile, but this could be career ending. Even greater than that, this could be quality of life affecting. Having been a "professional" athlete, I feel for him. This is one of those injuries that can affect any and every movement he makes for the rest of his life. That's tough as hell to deal with and Schaub could very well call it a career after this season. Millions in the bank can't buy happiness or health. Just ask Al Davis if you have a Ouija board.
MEGA SWATT
All Pro
Doubtful it will affect his quality of life as you commented. He will heal and be fine for everything short of running marathons imo.
As for football? That's a tough call - I'm not sure here.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
IF it is a Lisfranc, healing is complicated in patients who sustain this type of injury. The most common complication of the Lisfranc injury is post-traumatic arthritis of the joint. In the medical literature, it is quoted as high as 50% of those having sustained this injury. This post-traumatic arthritis mimics degenerative arthritis, but its course is accelerated because of severe injury to a joint. This can lead to chronic pain in the injured joint, and may necessitate fusion of the joint in order to prevent chronic debilitating pain.
It also ought to be pointed out that even in the cases of isolated midfoot metatarsal fractures, the development of the arthritis and chronic pain can still be a significant long term problem.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
michaelm
vox nihili
It's all good, Nitro. No one can blame you for being a bit edgy considering the shocking Schaub news.
Also, we all know you're an ahole,
so I'm sure nobody was surprised by your response!
michaelm
vox nihili
I know exactly squat about medicine, but this Lis Franc person is a freakin dick! Dontya think?
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
No kiddin. Dude needs his ass whooped
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Wonderful.
I assume this means total and permanent loss of joint mobility.
Keep in mind that fusion would be a worse case scenario. (so let's not put the cart before the horse) Prior to its implementation, orthotics are usually tested. If a fusion is deemed "necessary" in the future of these patients, it tends to itself also affect their mobility and their gait...........and, furthermore, fusion is no guarantee that the pain will be resolved.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
It's all good, Nitro. No one can blame you for being a bit edgy considering the shocking Schaub news.
Also, we all know you're an ahole,
Speaking of you... Can you fix my sig if you still have whatever you need to do it with? It's a little outdated. Cushing, Joseph and... somebody else. I like 'em all.
Sorry in advance for not keeping up with your posts, Cloak. (And thanks for the rep in the other thread. Deja Vu all over again, ay?)
One of the last things I got back from my lisfranc was foot balance. And that won't come until he gets every single bit of his leg strength back. And he isn't even going to get frustrated until after he get's his cast off. The whole time he has that cast on, he's gonna be sittin on his ass with the foot higher than his heart.
Wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
They had a diagram in the Chroc ragsheet this past week, Tuesday I think.
Question for Jean! Would a dislocation rather than a fracture take the same amount of time healing? Would he still need surgery, or would time take care of the problem? It seems that after all the edema goes down, and he heals from the bruising, if it was a dislocation and not a fracture, he might be good to go in about 5-6 wks. How would this effect the ligament in that part of his foot? I know it is the strongest ligament in the body, but, I don't know if the injury caused damage to that ligament. Just wondering! THANKS!
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sandy,
The Lisfranc joint actually includes ALL 5 of the metatarsal-tarsal bone joints....not just the 1st and 2nd.
The reason that the involvement of the 2nd is classic is because the 2nd metatarsal bone is the longest and therefore easiest jammed. This second metatarsal also (unlike the others) extends down INTO the row of small bones and acts as a STABILIZING FORCE (see TB's illustration above). The bones are held in place by connective tissues (ligaments) that stretch both across and down the foot as noted in the illustration below.
However, there is no connective tissue holding the first metatarsal to the second metatarsal (in other words, no "across" [horizontal] ligament, just the diagonal ligament that spans from one of the tarsal bones to the base of the 2nd metatarsal giving it much less support than the other joints) A twisting fall can break or shift (dislocate) these bones out of place.
If there is a dislocation, the remaining supporting ligament would have been torn and the joint and foot be rendered unstable. In most cases, it is the JOINT DISRUPTION that is the most devastating part of this injury NOT and fracture. Even with conservative non-operative approach in the case of a minimally disruptive joint, a non-weight-bearing immobilizing appliance would have to be placed for at least 6-8 weeks, leaving you with the need to rehab just for range of motion initially and then for strength, not to mention the last stage of football-readying/conditioning. And we can't forget that the Texans have admitted to a "fracture," so IF it is a Lisfranc, this would complicate things even more. If the Texans choose to, for whatever reason, try to treat a Lisfranc that would best be more appropriately be treated with surgery with conservative means, the stability may never in the end be gained, and the surgery be necessitated anyway. In such a case, the retrauma to the joint of this injury along with the delay of definitive surgical treatment could worsen the ultimate prognosis.
I hope this answers at least some of your questions.
BTW, the Lisfranc ligament is the strongest ligament of these tarsal-metatarsal joints (you may have meant to say that), but the iliofemoral ligament of the hip is the strongest ligament in the body.
[EDIT: Also see my complementary post #540 on the next page.]
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
awwww what a *****, dont he know we're trying to win a superbowl here
Haynesworth forgot to tell him.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the pics..........It helped to illustrate my above response. Must spread the rep.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Doc, I knew if I threw out some elementary visuals that you would follow up with better depictions and with extrordinary explanations! Thanks, as usual!!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.
The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.
The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.
Here could be the most likely type of injury (which includes a Lisfranc with "fracture") that has the Texans in a quandry whether they should take the chance of going conservative.
The x-ray demonstrates some abnormal separation between the bases of the 1st and 2nd metatarsal bones along with the "fleck sign." The fleck sign reflects a small bone fragment avulsed by and still attached to the Lisfranc ligament (look at he 5 o'clock position of the circle............this is where the diagonal Lisfranc ligament attaches to the rectangular tarsal bone (the other end attaches to the base of the 2nd metatarsal bone, around the 9 o'clock position). If you look carefully at the 5 o'clock position again you will see an irregular space of the tarsal bone surface which reflects a piece of the bone being fractured off of the tarsal bone proper.
So the surgery would be to go in and remove the bone chip...??
...if there is one...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
"Conservative" would mean NO surgery.........just relying on positioning the joint anatomically and immobilizing it in that position. Remember, this type of approach would be very IFFY.
I don't get that. Seems like the conservative thing - which in my mind equates to best possible recovery state in the long term - would be to surgically repair the foot; even if it means sitting out the rest of the year.
By "conservative" did you mean "least invasive"??
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Sorry, in situations like this, in medical terms, "conservative" means non-operative (or least invasive).
Thanks Dr. J.
Although I'm still a little unclear as to the relative recovery times...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Thanks Dr. J.
Although I'm still a little unclear as to the relative recovery times...
Basically, if he goes to surgery, screws will be left in place 3-6 months during which time, he cannot weight bear at all (and probably 3-6 more months to rehab)...................out for the season definitely.
If in the very unlikely case that conservative approach (non-operative) even works, 6-8 weeks immobilized in boot.....and rehab another 2-3 weeks........plus getting into true football "condition"???........... (with good chance of the foot losing alignment when stressed)
Personally, I don't give him much of a chance to come back this season anywhere functionally intact either way..............of course, I could always be wrong......
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
How long would he be out if Mr. Miagi(karate kid) got a hold of him?
Wipe on........Wipe off........still Wiped out.........
