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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

I'm ready to see what Yates can do. I can't believe what a turnover machine Savage is.
 
Porky said:
I favored keeping Weeden as the #3. Frankly, I thought he should be #2. I've never been impressed with Savage. Good guy, I like him personally. And he tries his hardest. Not worried at all about effort.

And granted - he is improving in terms of his "good" play. IE, he is starting to make some nice down field throws and seems to have his mental clock getting going in terms of finding his read and getting the ball out. I see less of the "deer in the headlights" Savage. And he clearly has arm talent. He can zing it, no doubt about that. He has an NFL starting arm.

But he just goes bad Savage way to often and is simply not good enough to make up for it. I'll grant you that Lamm is a joke at LT and Savage had about a second - still, the way he is just so careless with the ball when he knows what he has on his blindside... I dunno, but there is a reason why he's good for a strip sack a game. And it's not getting better. Then he has two INT's that were both bad reads and/or bad throws.

And he isn't a dynamic playmaker that can go out and make up for a couple of mistakes per game. He also seems to cave when the pressure is on. In short, he clearly does not have "it".

Savage's path to winning is to play a completely clean game, throw to the open guy, and keep everyone on schedule. He's got game manager written all over him - but with limited upside. Think a lead-footed (but stronger armed) Schaub at very best. And that's pushing it. I think he can play in the NFL, but as a long term starter? I simply don't see it. He's a #2 and a spot starter at best.

The question is do the Texans attempt to keep him? He's done enough where you can throw him out there to mop up or give him a spot start, but he isn't a #2 that's going to step in for Watson and win consistently. And he's made enough mistakes that I don't see any market for him as a starter. I mean who would sign him to starter money? So...point being he might be content to stay here and backup Watson. There are worse gigs out there.

Who out there would be a serious upgrade to Savage that's available. And you're not rocking a rookie at #2 next year imo. So like it or not, I favor trying to bring him back for #2 duties. Draft a kid late that is more in the mold of Watson that can be developed for a #2, but for now, I'd bring back Savage.
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Why not play Yates and see if he's an upgrade over Savage? He's already in the house and could be extended.
 
I mean haven't we seen TJ before? I don't think he's as good as "good" Savage, and he isn't as bad as "bad" Savage. Savage has better arm talent. Yates is....blah.

At this point, I'd rather play Savage and see if he can get some of these kinks worked out, like ball security. He's only played about a half dozen games, there's still some upside that can be drawn out of him. TJ is what he is. Dude was on a couch a couple of weeks ago eating popcorn and beer and watching games in his recliner for a reason.
 
Savage has the same affliction that hits the majority of this teams QB's....Hopkins Lock-On Syndrome (H-LOS). When he's covered by 2 to 3 DB's and the QB is waiting for him to spring open, even by the slimmest of margins, the balls going to him unless they've run out of time and then there's the blind pass to anywhere else on the field. This syndrome is either initiated by O'Brien or the QB, it would be interesting to see how spreading the ball around might help.
 
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TexansBull said:
Dak Prescott=Tom Savage.

They both need a perfect Oline. Both need a stout running game. Both need a strong defense.

Since they have been hit with injuries and the suspension not much is different.

One thing is for sure:

DW>DP
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...and what have we learned with this analogy? Get those trenches (OL, DL, LB, TE) fortified since they represent the engine that powers the car. Oh...and leather seats are nice, but they're just leather seats if the car can't move.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
...and what have we learned with this analogy? Get those trenches (OL, DL, LB, TE) fortified since they represent the engine that powers the car. Oh...and leather seats are nice, but they're just leather seats if the car can't move.
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To have DW play with the players on IR and an average oline would make us a playoff team immediately.

DW can make a car on bricks move.

I do agree with you - the whole trenches thing.

We need to focus on the Oline, secondary, and offensive coordinator this off-season.

My comment was more directed that Dak isn’t elite. He is average that needs everything to go right to be good. Like Savage.

However, the Brady and Rogers of the NFL don’t. Or DW for that matter.

And no I am not saying DW is as good as the the aforementioned, just that he can make things work with less like they can.
 
DPvKR9KX4AEtBMV.jpg:small


https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/935564344452177921
 
12 turnovers in 4 games and Bill O'Brien is sticking with Savage. I guess we don't think too highly of trying to salvage this season. At 4-7 it's pretty much over but why not play Yates, at the very least, in these final five games?
 
Double Barrel said:
Between this stat, and Schaub's pick 6 record, and David Carr's sack record, the Houston Texans own some rather dubious QB records. :headhurts:
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I sometimes wonder if it's me. I make fun of a lot of celestial beings (so to speak) other than the football gods, whom I hate with a passion. They may have talked about this in their last quarterly meeting. On their time I think that's like once a century or something, so it could be really bad for a while. The Rockets and Astros are fine though, cause I don't talk about them a lot.
 
Thorn said:
The Rockets and Astros are fine though, cause I don't talk about them a lot.
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There's a good chance the Astros will win back-to-back World Series titles in 2018 and the Rockets may win the 2018 NBA Finals. The city of Houston will become championship city and maybe we can all forget about how bad the Texans have been for the better part of 16 years and counting (2002 to 2018).

I certainly have forgotten how bad the Texans have been. Well, not really, I still remember every Texans game ever played starting with that 2002 Hall of Fame game (our first preseason game) against Jeremy Shockey and the New York Giants. Shockey just embarrassed our sloppy tackling attempts in that game. Right then and there I knew it would be a long and bumpy ride. The win over the Dallas Cowboys during Week 1 of 2002 gave me some false hope. David Carr to Billy Miller, Touchdown Texans!
 
Not only is it the Team’s fault for propping savage up as some viable option, but it’s also their fault for not correcting his issues.

Even though the results looked ok in pre season he displayed poor habits in the pocket. He does not have to be Watson athletic, but he didn’t/doesn’t slide in the pocket well...he doesn’t feel pressure well....he has a tendency to fade backward instead of step up to let the tackles push the DE’s around.

When he can drop back and go to his first read (as he was able to do 90% of the time in pre season) those issues don’t come into play much. But in the regular season teams mix up coverages a lot and bring pressure in different ways and when he can’t just let the ball fly when he hits his back foot he struggles tremendously.

I blame the coaching because it appears they are oblivious.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Not only is it the Team’s fault for propping savage up as some viable option, but it’s also their fault for not correcting his issues.

Even though the results looked ok in pre season he displayed poor habits in the pocket. He does not have to be Watson athletic, but he didn’t/doesn’t slide in the pocket well...he doesn’t feel pressure well....he has a tendency to fade backward instead of step up to let the tackles push the DE’s around.

When he can drop back and go to his first read (as he was able to do 90% of the time in pre season) those issues don’t come into play much. But in the regular season teams mix up coverages a lot and bring pressure in different ways and when he can’t just let the ball fly when he hits his back foot he struggles tremendously.

I blame the coaching because it appears they are oblivious.
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I can't blame the coaches for Savage being bad at football. He wasn't even a good college QB. He completed 56.8% of his passes in college. He didn't feel the pressure then, he doesn't feel it now. You can't coach that, nor can you coach a QB to be more athletic than a stop sign. In 2 years starting for Rutgers he played in 18 games and was sacked 49 times. In his 1 year at Pitt (13 games) he was sacked 43 times.

Bottom line, Savage was overrated and over-drafted by the Texans coming out of college. He was not worthy of a pick, much less a 4th round pick.
 
Porky said:
I mean haven't we seen TJ before? I don't think he's as good as "good" Savage, and he isn't as bad as "bad" Savage. Savage has better arm talent. Yates is....blah.

At this point, I'd rather play Savage and see if he can get some of these kinks worked out, like ball security. He's only played about a half dozen games, there's still some upside that can be drawn out of him. TJ is what he is. Dude was on a couch a couple of weeks ago eating popcorn and beer and watching games in his recliner for a reason.
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Savage is what he is as well. And that's a turnover waiting to happen. A four year vet that does not understand the basic concept of looking the safety off.

They should've kept Yates in the first place.
 
banned1976 said:
I can't blame the coaches for Savage being bad at football.
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I didntvlike savage as a prospect and I don’t think he did anything in college that showed he was capabl of being an nfl qb.

The point of my post was that in 4 years he doesn’t even look like he has addressed his weaknesses.

That’s not just a savage thing...in general players on the offensive side don’t see big leaps in development under this regime.

It’s part of the reason that I would be ok with firing OB even though Watson looked very promising under him. I’m not sure OB is the guy to make him even better.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
12 turnovers in 4 games and Bill O'Brien is sticking with Savage. I guess we don't think too highly of trying to salvage this season. At 4-7 it's pretty much over but why not play Yates, at the very least, in these final five games?
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Yeah, the choice to keep plugging away with Savage means I'm done watching the Texans this year. There's really no point now. We've watched O'Brien pull QB's for three years and now, in 2017 he balks at pulling the single worst QB of his entire time here. It makes no sense. He won games with Yates. He let Weeden walk and he won games with Weeden. He won games with Keenum, and Fitzpatrick, and Mallet. At one point he pulled or cut all of them and none of them were even close to as bad as Savage at protecting the ball. All of them could lead scoring drives.

O'Brien won't or can't get out of his own way here. Hell, McLovin would have been a better option than Savage.
 
Hervoyel said:
Yeah, the choice to keep plugging away with Savage means I'm done watching the Texans this year. There's really no point now. We've watched O'Brien pull QB's for three years and now, in 2017 he balks at pulling the single worst QB of his entire time here. It makes no sense. He won games with Yates. He let Weeden walk and he won games with Weeden. He won games with Keenum, and Fitzpatrick, and Mallet. At one point he pulled or cut all of them and none of them were even close to as bad as Savage at protecting the ball. All of them could lead scoring drives.

O'Brien won't or can't get out of his own way here. Hell, McLovin would have been a better option than Savage.
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It only makes sense as this is the quarterback that O'Brien has been grooming. Free agents and afterthought draft picks keep getting moved on, but one QB has stuck it out. Savage is his Brady, the culmination of O'Brien's teaching and experience, quietly going to take over and lead us to a Superbowl. Oz was unexpected thus OB reluctantly had to use him. With a rookie however, O'Brien was able to put the kid on the backburner (for his own good) and showcase his own superstar - Tom MF'n Savage! Oops.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I didntvlike savage as a prospect and I don’t think he did anything in college that showed he was capabl of being an nfl qb.

The point of my post was that in 4 years he doesn’t even look like he has addressed his weaknesses.

That’s not just a savage thing...in general players on the offensive side don’t see big leaps in development under this regime.

It’s part of the reason that I would be ok with firing OB even though Watson looked very promising under him. I’m not sure OB is the guy to make him even better.
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Savage has been injured much of his career. Not much you can do with a guy when he's on IR.

I'm straddling the fence when it comes to O'Brien. Not so with Savage. He's had his chances and either not improved or been injured. O'Brien hasn't improved much either but I think he's done well with the QBs. Savage is a lost cause and Osweiler has been terrible this year with Denver, after being cut by the Browns. He is probably done as an NFL starting QB as well.
 
TejasTom said:
T(urn) O(ver) M(achine) Savage
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Thanks for the sign idea!

If he's still our starting quarterback by then, I'll take it to the Texans vs. Steelers game on Christmas afternoon. My friend scored me a free ticket and it's the only Texans game I'll be attending this season.

I'm going to take my J.J. Watt autographed football and try to get T.J. Watt to sign it on the other side. That would be really cool to have the Watt brothers signed football displayed on a mantle inside my living room. That would be my pride and joy.
 
Hate re-hashing a conspiracy theory....but, has anyone been able to come up with any answers as to how Savage has managed to survive direct hit after direct hit in his few starts this season and last year he was put in concussion protocol on a glancing blow to his shoulder on a QB sneak from a LB who was roughly 6 yards from the point of impact? Curious mind would like to know.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Hate re-hashing a conspiracy theory....but, has anyone been able to come up with any answers as to how Savage has managed to survive direct hit after direct hit in his few starts this season and last year he was put in concussion protocol on a glancing blow to his shoulder on a QB sneak from a LB who was roughly 6 yards from the point of impact? Curious mind would like to know.
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Sneaks rely on timing and a bit of luck. Savage had poor timing, Schaub had poor luck. Both had the misfortune of bad playcalling because neither situation should have exposed the QB to the mess of a QB sneak.

In the pocket Savage is able to defend himself to some degree (defending the football is something else apparently). A sneak allows for no defensive maneuvers.
 
Scooter said:
Sneaks rely on timing and a bit of luck. Savage had poor timing, Schaub had poor luck. Both had the misfortune of bad playcalling because neither situation should have exposed the QB to the mess of a QB sneak.

In the pocket Savage is able to defend himself to some degree (defending the football is something else apparently). A sneak allows for no defensive maneuvers.
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Also QBs usually lead with their heads on a sneak; have yet to see a QB stand on his head in the pocket.
 
Scooter said:
Sneaks rely on timing and a bit of luck. Savage had poor timing, Schaub had poor luck. Both had the misfortune of bad playcalling because neither situation should have exposed the QB to the mess of a QB sneak.

In the pocket Savage is able to defend himself to some degree (defending the football is something else apparently). A sneak allows for no defensive maneuvers.
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I saw Wentz QB sneak several times on 3rd and short. Brady had done it for yrs. It was just bad luck, if Savage really had a concussion at all, which I really doubt since he came back into the game. That was all about Os regaining the starting position.
 
steelbtexan said:
I saw Wentz QB sneak several times on 3rd and short. Brady had done it for yrs. It was just bad luck, if Savage really had a concussion at all, which I really doubt since he came back into the game. That was all about Os regaining the starting position.
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So the independent Dr. assigned to evaluate for concussion is really just a Brock Osweiler fan hellbent on seeing him lead the Texans to the Superb Owl?

:tinfoil:
 
Porky said:
So the independent Dr. assigned to evaluate for concussion is really just a Brock Osweiler fan hellbent on seeing him lead the Texans to the Superb Owl?

:tinfoil:
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The Dr. cleared Savage, he played one more play, went in for halftime, then never played a down for the rest of the season. Despite BOB saying earlier that Savage gave the team its best chance to win.

Smells fishy to me.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Dr. cleared Savage, he played one more play, went in for halftime, then never played a down for the rest of the season. Despite BOB saying earlier that Savage gave the team its best chance to win.

Smells fishy to me.
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The Doc did not do the full concussion test until halftime. He did a 'what day off the week is it?" tests.
 
infantrycak said:
The Doc did not do the full concussion test until halftime. He did a 'what day off the week is it?" tests.
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So the Doc let a guy with a concussion that was bad enough that he had to take a week off back into the game. Not buying.

Link?
 
steelbtexan said:
How many minutes?

Savage was out from the 1st series until just before halftime. I've never seen what happened that day in all of my yrs of watching football.
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Completely agree. I was watching the game and he never took a hit to his helmet. The hit was almost to the left shoulder area and more glancing to the left side base of the helmet. Savage may taken a moment to get up but once he was up....he became far too animated on the sideline when he was told to go with the doc for concussion protocol. Just didn't look right. Worse yet, the same doctor clearing him to re-enter the game.
 
I don’t understand what the conspiracy theory is here? Who the hell wanted Brock to keep playing and why? Was the independent doctor Brock’s uncle or something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
infantrycak said:
He "went into the game" to take a knee on 1st & 10 with 23 s.
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...and why would the team put his health at risk if he was so woozy that he couldn't pass a second concussion protocol test 5-7 minutes later? Couldn't Osweiler just as easily been the one sent out to take a knee? He was the one under center for the last 15+ minutes. He was cleared and rejoined the team on the sideline....so what alerted the team doctor to do another protocol? Someone slap his helmet too hard as they were coming off the field and it initiated the second phase of his concussion? Or, was Savage stumbling around the locker room trying to find his locker while proclaiming he really was Nicholas Cage? Maybe he accidentally proclaimed that he was happy that the team was done with practice today? I mean, what triggered the need for a second eval after he'd already spent more than 15 minutes being evaluated and cleared by the same doctor? Wait a second....maybe Savage asked for a second opinion!!!!
 
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Yeah cuz taking a knee is "at risk."

Any number of perfectly ordinary things could have triggered an half time check. Maybe the Doc was borderline before and went to check on him. Maybe he just went to check in a less pressured situation. Maybe Savage stumbled either physically or mentally/in speech. None of that would be odd or require tin foil.

Hell, Savage being loopy and running on to the field without ever having been cleared is more likely than y'all's grand directive and cover-up scenario.
 
Savage came out of the tunnel before the half with the look of someone ready to pickup where he left off. He wasn't wobbly as he ran toward the sideline...hell, I'm fairly certain had he been doing zig-zag movements towards the sideline everyone on the field would've known that O'Brien had 33 other players at his disposal to go in and take a knee. Why didn't Osweiler just take the final snap of the half?
 
From that game on, Savage should have been in a weekly concussion protocol. I think he has been in a concussed state this entire season.

That's the conspiracy theory. After throwing those stupid INTs and fumbling every time a defender hits him, why isn't he in the concussion protocol? Shouldn't the doctor be checking him after every turnover?

:thinking:
 
Alright guys, Ive had enough. I'm thowing my hat into the ring for QB this season.

During our Thanksgiving pickup football game last week I spun out of my cousin's tackle and put in on a fuckin rope to my uncle in the back of the endzone(marked by grandma's stupid lawn gnome that I hate) so I'm pretty sure I'm up to the task. You guys wish me luck. im gonna try to set up a workout with BOB.

Also, I can step in at ILB if needed as I have a few highlights in that position as well
 
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adama51 said:
Alright guys, Ive had enough. I'm thowing my hat into the ring for QB this season.

During our Thanksgiving pickup football game last week I spun out of my cousin's tackle and put in on a fuckin rope to my uncle in the back of the endzone(marked by grandma's stupid lawn gnome that I hate) so I'm pretty sure I'm up to the task. You guys wish me luck. im gonna try to set up a workout with BOB.

Also, I can step in at ILB if needed as I have a few highlights in that position as well
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I will be your agent. Let's get her done son. Lol
 
adama51 said:
Alright guys, Ive had enough. I'm thowing my hat into the ring for QB this season.

During our Thanksgiving pickup football game last week I spun out of my cousin's tackle and put in on a fuckin rope to my uncle in the back of the endzone(marked by grandma's stupid lawn gnome that I hate) so I'm pretty sure I'm up to the task. You guys wish me luck. im gonna try to set up a workout with BOB.

Also, I can step in at ILB if needed as I have a few highlights in that position as well
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Can I be part of your entourage in the event you need a fall guy for illegal activities and urine samples in the event you get “pregnant” like Cushing?
 
infantrycak said:
The Doc did not do the full concussion test until halftime. He did a 'what day off the week is it?" tests.
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I have posted this before... but since the conspiracy theory is out and about again... and like infantrycak states in his post you keep getting evaluated because symptoms don't always present immediately...

From what I have read of the concussion protocol the "best practice" is to perform serial evaluations every 20 minutes for an hour, then every hour for 3 hours.

"because concussive injury can evolve and may not be apparent for several minutes or hours. Even if a player passes an initial concussion assessment and is returned to practice or play he must be checked periodically during practice or play and again before leaving the venue."

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/lyris/pdfs/NFL_Diagnosis_Mgmt_Concussion.pdf
 
adama51 said:
Alright guys, Ive had enough. I'm thowing my hat into the ring for QB this season.

During our Thanksgiving pickup football game last week I spun out of my cousin's tackle and put in on a fuckin rope to my uncle in the back of the endzone(marked by grandma's stupid lawn gnome that I hate) so I'm pretty sure I'm up to the task. You guys wish me luck. im gonna try to set up a workout with BOB.

Also, I can step in at ILB if needed as I have a few highlights in that position as well
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You can become our "Invincible"! And Mark Wahlberg can play you in the movie! :throwball:
 
FuzzyLogic said:
I have posted this before... but since the conspiracy theory is out and about again... and like infantrycak states in his post you keep getting evaluated because symptoms don't always present immediately...

From what I have read of the concussion protocol the "best practice" is to perform serial evaluations every 20 minutes for an hour, then every hour for 3 hours.

"because concussive injury can evolve and may not be apparent for several minutes or hours. Even if a player passes an initial concussion assessment and is returned to practice or play he must be checked periodically during practice or play and again before leaving the venue."

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/lyris/pdfs/NFL_Diagnosis_Mgmt_Concussion.pdf
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If that was the case anybody who had concussive symptoms would never be allowed back in a game. We know this isn't true. See: Giselle/Tommy
 
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