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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

infantrycak said:
Disagree. He was above average the year he was healthy. Unfortunately that is rare and it happened to be a contract year.
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It's not rare at all for a guy to have his best year in a contract year. In fact it's quite common. It's up to management to figure out if a guy is part of the future or is he in it for the $$$$. Just another of many failures that have put the Texans organization where they are today.
 
dream_team said:
If I was Jax, I’d overpay for Tyrod.
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I think Cousins ends up in Jacksonville next year. That D is stacked and the O has some weapons. Bortles is the one holding them back, IMO.

To Savage, I don't think he will be around next year. This offense has seen what it can do with Watson under center. Savage can't do that. Too bad, I was pulling for Savage but I don't think his future is in Houston.
 
infantrycak said:
Which gets back to my OL coach point. MN is in the 2nd year with theirs having retooled to players who presumably fit our system. Has any Texan OL player improved under Devlin?
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And 9-2 with a QB the Texans discarded a couple of times. Some coaches know how to make lemonade and some don't.
 
austins23 said:
I think Cousins ends up in Jacksonville next year. That D is stacked and the O has some weapons. Bortles is the one holding them back, IMO.

To Savage, I don't think he will be around next year. This offense has seen what it can do with Watson under center. Savage can't do that. Too bad, I was pulling for Savage but I don't think his future is in Houston.
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Had Savage started the season doing what he did last week .... I don't think anyone would have complained (he was just average , not bad , not good). Hell , If Watson had come in and simply been average , we'd have all been happy , talking about growth potential and all that shiznit.

Watson going off with historic numbers changed everything .... Still , if your backup can give you what Savage did this past week on average (minus the weekly strip sack) - you have a solid backup.

Don't know if Savage is here or gone and not really arguing the point .... Just trying to put everything into perspective.
 
Corrosion said:
Still , if your backup can give you what Savage did this past week on average (minus the weekly strip sack) - you have a solid backup.
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I'd take last week's Savage as a backup, no problem, minus the strip sack of course. I just don't think he will be here next year is all. Hell, TJ couldn't stick in the NFL and he's won a playoff game. Like I said, I'm pulling for Savage.
 
infantrycak said:
Disagree. He was above average the year he was healthy. Unfortunately that is rare and it happened to be a contract year.
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Was that stats wise? Eye test wise, he was pretty much the same failure he had always been. I like stats as much as the next guy in line but the eye test is far more accurate than the numbers generated in a column. There are no columns for when critical mistakes and blunders happen....ball on the 30, it's 2nd and 1, then holding....now it's 3rd and 11 at the 40 and the team is out of FG range. On a stat sheet, it's just a holding penalty, the eye test says the blunder cost the team an opportunity of 6 points at best and worst case scenario an opportunity at 3.

Sorry for this statement and I know it's veering off topic but we all know, facing 3rd and 11...O'Brien is going to slam Miller off center for a loss or no gain and settle for Lechler pinning opposing offenses inside the 10. Rinse and repeat this scenario for 3 seasons and 10 games. Coming back on topic, this is why Newton and most of the OL have under performed year in and year out, regardless of the what the stats show, their mistakes and blunders are heart wrenching.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope,

He's a failure because the OL still sucks despite this post. He can't evaluate talent worth a crap. Do you expect Rocky to have an epiphany and all of the sudden make this franchise a SB contender after seeing his 12 year track record?
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This again is a false claim by you because he didn't draft or go after players that were on your expertise radar.

It's false because you are not looking at the entire body of work. You don't have a clue to what goes on in their war room. You continue to think Rick acts alone when it comes to drafting and free agency. Bleep what Bill O'Brien has stated several times in the past 2 years. That dude has to be lying out his ash.

Another thing you fail to acknowledge is COACHING. It's the coaches job to develop these players not Rick. I've seen quite of few players leave this organization and immediately become successful at their position.

They have drafted very well in the past few years. They stuck to their plan to get faster on offense. They built up a top level defense. They did bringing in prospects through the draft for the offensive line and went after FA players who they thought would help solidify their line. Unfortunately, either injuries took over or player A & B didn't pan out. We also had our top linemen hold out unexpectedly. Those known facts you continues to ignore. Why? Simple: you hate/strongly dislike Rick Smith.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Was that stats wise? Eye test wise, he was pretty much the same failure he had always been. I like stats as much as the next guy in line but the eye test is far more accurate than the numbers generated in a column. There are no columns for when critical mistakes and blunders happen....ball on the 30, it's 2nd and 1, then holding....now it's 3rd and 11 at the 40 and the team is out of FG range. On a stat sheet, it's just a holding penalty, the eye test says the blunder cost the team an opportunity of 6 points at best and worst case scenario an opportunity at 3.
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During Newton's 'good' year he was still getting beat by the best of the speed rushers, but was much better against power guys and the run game he excelled (for him).
 
Texansballer74 said:
This again is a false claim by you because he didn't draft or go after players that were on your expertise radar.

It's false because you are not looking at the entire body of work. You don't have a clue to what goes on in their war room. You continue to think Rick acts alone when it comes to drafting and free agency. Bleep what Bill O'Brien has stated several times in the past 2 years. That dude has to be lying out his ash.

Another thing you fail to acknowledge is COACHING. It's the coaches job to develop these players not Rick. I've seen quite of few players leave this organization and immediately become successful at their position.

They have drafted very well in the past few years. They stuck to their plan to get faster on offense. They built up a top level defense. They did bringing in prospects through the draft for the offensive line and went after FA players who they thought would help solidify their line. Unfortunately, either injuries took over or player A & B didn't pan out. We also had our top linemen hold out unexpectedly. Those known facts you continues to ignore. Why? Simple: you hate/strongly dislike Rick Smith.
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Other than Brooks, which OL or any offensive player gone on to great things elsewhere?
 
infantrycak said:
Disagree. He was above average the year he was healthy. Unfortunately that is rare and it happened to be a contract year.
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Newton was crap, the weakest link during his tenure doesn't get wiped away (heh) by being slightly less wet crap for a season. Where folks get confused is that O'Brien dropped the rest of the line, so all of a sudden Newton is arguably the least worst player on the line - worst to first by default.
 
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dream_team said:
I think Tyrod will get an offer from someone to be a gap stop QB. Every offseason, those are always in demand. If I was Jax, I’d overpay for Tyrod.

In other words, I’d be highly surprised if he takes an offer to be a backup.
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Me too. I think options will be limited to drafting a guy in later rounds or picking through the scrap heap.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Was that stats wise? Eye test wise, he was pretty much the same failure he had always been. I like stats as much as the next guy in line but the eye test is far more accurate than the numbers generated in a column.
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Both. Lol at the last both for its rhetorical flair (implied slam and self-backscratch) and over-generalization. Everyone has eyes. They can't all be more accurate.

JB said:
Other than Brooks, which OL or any offensive player gone on to great things elsewhere?
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You described "good" Newton well - dominant run blocker, good against power rushers, always subject to speed.

Don't know about star but Ben Jones has been a starter since leaving. My comment there is it's fine to replace 2 starters to upgrade. Replacing 2 starters to put money elsewhere and hope to get by is a bad plan.
 
Texansballer74 said:
This again is a false claim by you because he didn't draft or go after players that were on your expertise radar.

It's false because you are not looking at the entire body of work. You don't have a clue to what goes on in their war room. You continue to think Rick acts alone when it comes to drafting and free agency. Bleep what Bill O'Brien has stated several times in the past 2 years. That dude has to be lying out his ash.

Another thing you fail to acknowledge is COACHING. It's the coaches job to develop these players not Rick. I've seen quite of few players leave this organization and immediately become successful at their position.

They have drafted very well in the past few years. They stuck to their plan to get faster on offense. They built up a top level defense. They did bringing in prospects through the draft for the offensive line and went after FA players who they thought would help solidify their line. Unfortunately, either injuries took over or player A & B didn't pan out. We also had our top linemen hold out unexpectedly. Those known facts you continues to ignore. Why? Simple: you hate/strongly dislike Rick Smith.
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TB: We have also seen players who have demonstrated ability be allowed to leave. Quin, Brooks, Bouye, Simon and others that you can probably name yourself. I don't recall that any of them would have broken the bank to re-sign.

I don't know that much about coaching. I do know that the Texans could sign me off the street and they would have a difficult time making a football player out of me. Gotta have the innate ability.

Which players stand out to you that left and were transformed into successful players? I draw a blank, but that is a common occurance.

:coffee:
 
JB said:
Other than Brooks, which OL or any offensive player gone on to great things elsewhere?
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Abushi ( however you spell his name)
Jacoby was very solid for the Raven. Was one of the key reasons why the won the SB.
Keenum is playing excellent for the Vikings as we speak.

Ben Jones has been solid as well.
 
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Scooter said:
Newton was crap, the weakest link during his tenure doesn't get wiped away (heh) by being slightly less wet crap for a season. Where folks get confused is that O'Brien dropped the rest of the line, so all of a sudden Newton is arguably the least worst player on the line - worst to first by default.
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That's not what O'Brien thought about him. He always raved about how he's inproved tremendously. Thus the reason why we kept him over Brooks presumably. Newton was very solid in the run game.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Abushi ( however you spell his name)
Jacoby was very solid for the Raven. Was one of the key reasons why the won the SB.
Keenum is playing excellent for the Vikings as we speak.
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Aboushi has done what?
Jacoby did have a nice SB for them
Keenum is playing well finally, but not an OL or someone that succeeded here to the point of being a viable choice... how anyone thought that Os or Hoyer or Mallett was a viable choice is beyond me
 
JB said:
Aboushi has done what?
Jacoby did have a nice SB for them
Keenum is playing well finally, but not an OL or someone that succeeded here to the point of being a viable choice... how anyone thought that Os or Hoyer or Mallett was a viable choice is beyond me
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Aboushi has played very solid as a starter for the Seahawks. Not all pro but he's doing great over there.
We didn't have the patience to develop Keenum and or put him in a system that was suitable to his strengths.

Hoyer and Mallett were big mistakes. I guess they say some type of potential. And both players played in this type of system before.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That's not what O'Brien thought about him. He always raved about how he's improved tremendously. Thus the reason why we kept him over Brooks presumably. Newton was very solid in the run game.
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Are you using O'Brien's opinion about offensive linemen as part of your argument, followed by supporting keeping Newton over Brooks? To say yes to either of those, I'm not sure we can have an actual conversation about this topic. And no, Newton wasn't solid in the run game.
 
Texansballer74 said:
This again is a false claim by you because he didn't draft or go after players that were on your expertise radar.

It's false because you are not looking at the entire body of work. You don't have a clue to what goes on in their war room. You continue to think Rick acts alone when it comes to drafting and free agency. Bleep what Bill O'Brien has stated several times in the past 2 years. That dude has to be lying out his ash.

Another thing you fail to acknowledge is COACHING. It's the coaches job to develop these players not Rick. I've seen quite of few players leave this organization and immediately become successful at their position.

They have drafted very well in the past few years. They stuck to their plan to get faster on offense. They built up a top level defense. They did bringing in prospects through the draft for the offensive line and went after FA players who they thought would help solidify their line. Unfortunately, either injuries took over or player A & B didn't pan out. We also had our top linemen hold out unexpectedly. Those known facts you continues to ignore. Why? Simple: you hate/strongly dislike Rick Smith.
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Great Post except the OL sucks and has sucked for yrs. It's a talent issue. (I will admit the coaching could be better.) Ricky is in charge of acquiring, he's over the scouting staff that has failed. In any business if something fails it ultimately falls on the man at the top. (Except for the Texans org.)

One again the Texans OL sucks and it's a talent issue. (I think we can agree on this.) You cant do anything but blame the man acquiring the talent/hiring scouts etc.... Or the man who is in charge that should've known about Brown's possible holdout, since the holdout wasn't really about $$$$.

BTW, this isn't about who I would pick or not pick, this is about who Ricky picks. The fact that the only way you can defend Ricky's track record in drafting OL is to call BOB a liar speaks volumes. BOB may or may not be lying, but he damn sure isn't the only one lying (Maybe to themselves) in the Texans org.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Abushi ( however you spell his name)
Jacoby was very solid for the Raven. Was one of the key reasons why the won the SB.
Keenum is playing excellent for the Vikings as we speak.

Ben Jones has been solid as well.
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Aboushi, have you seen his play for the Seahawks this yr. (Obviously Not) LOL

Jones is avg, just like he was for the Texans. Jones was an alcoholic that couldn't even show up for the team plane on time. (Good riddance.) He never really developed as a WR under our beloved Kubiak.

Keenum, i will give you, but lets not pretend that most on this MB didn't want to run Keenum out of town. The only guys on here that really believed in Keenum were 76 Texan/CnD. The rest of us were where we are with Tom Savage right now. Some are Meh/Others want him run out of town.
 
steelbtexan said:
The only guys on here that really believed in Keenum were 76 Texan/CnD.
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Missed one.

I preached as loud as I could that Keenum was close, but not ready. His touch and accuracy could make him a solid #1 (or at least 1b), but he needed to finish 2012 getting backup reps before taking the reigns in 2013. McNair disagreed because he's smarter than the coach with 3 (at the time) rings.
 
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infantrycak said:
Disagree. He was above average the year he was healthy. Unfortunately that is rare and it happened to be a contract year.
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Even outside his contract year, he earned his pay. Keep in mind we weren't paying him a lot. But show me a RT who doesn't give up a sack, or a pressure & I'll show you a guy on the Practice Squad.

He didn't play well enough to make Osweiler look like Peyton Manning, but we've had some pretty good offensive production with him doing his job.
 
Scooter said:
Missed one.

I preached as loud as I could that Keenum was close, but not ready. His touch and accuracy could make him a solid #1 (or at least 1b), but he needed to finish 2012 getting backup reps before taking the reigns in 2013. McNair disagreed because he's smarter than the coach with 3 (at the time) rings.
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I wouldn't call myself a Keenumite, but I've said we'd have probably won six of his eight starts if Arian Foster was healthy. Arian was probably 50% of our offense back then... maybe 60% of our scoring.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wouldn't call myself a Keenumite, but I've said we'd have probably won six of his eight starts if Arian Foster was healthy. Arian was probably 50% of our offense back then... maybe 60% of our scoring.
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This. In a world where Hopkins was just getting his feet wet at this level and AJ was our only real receiving threat (Daniels being banged up so much) Foster's ability not only added those TD's but they in part helped make the receiving TD's we did manage to get possible.

Foster made so much of what we did work. Since he's been gone we've a whole lot less on offense (with the exception of DW4's big offensive outburst before he was hurt). Of all our former players Arian Foster would be the one I'd like back in his prime. Having a RB that talented changes everything.
 
ESPN just aired the savage post game confernce...

Steps to the Mic says "we good?" Looks dejected and hurries away.
 
powda said:
I gave you a whole lotta crap for your weeden obsession ,but I have to say I wouldn't mind seeing him now - I'd be more excited about him right now then savage or Yates. Damn we suck.
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So next week, do we get Savage or Yates? Between the Can't Do twins it'll be good for a yawn and a nap.
 
Thorn said:
So next week, do we get Savage or Yates? Between the Can't Do twins it'll be good for a yawn and a nap.
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I'll go for a rerun on some other channel. Gilligan and Ginger are more likely to score then the Texans.
 
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This cars been going downhill for a while...chunking a brick under the tire isn't going to slow it down and the ledge is coming fast.
 
Corrosion said:
The season was done the moment Watson went out ....


Water is wet.
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Yeah, the Texans have backed themselves into a corner with Watson. It's now a very simple formula for the Texans; Watson healthy = good Texans team, Watson NOT healthy = same old ****.
 
PapaL said:
Can't that be said for every team that loses their franchise QB?
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That's true most of the time. Every now and then somebody makes a little noise with a backup (Like when Cassel won all those games for New England that time Brady went down) but usually playing the majority of a season with your backup QB gets you a pretty good draft pick next year and some frustrating losses as you watch your team fall to teams that you know you could have beaten if you had your starter playing.

What I find interesting is how we can lose so many guys on defense (and guys like Watt and Mercilus) but it was when the rookie QB went down that the season really became pointless. We have some bonafide monsters on defense in Clowney, Watt, and Mercilus. Those are genuine difference makers and we can lose two of the three and still play competitive defense. Not world beating defense but at least keep you in it if you can just score some points (which we can't) defense.

I think if our entire starting defense was healthy we'd be just as screwed without Watson. 16-17 points a game just isn't going to work anymore in this game.
 
I favored keeping Weeden as the #3. Frankly, I thought he should be #2. I've never been impressed with Savage. Good guy, I like him personally. And he tries his hardest. Not worried at all about effort.

And granted - he is improving in terms of his "good" play. IE, he is starting to make some nice down field throws and seems to have his mental clock getting going in terms of finding his read and getting the ball out. I see less of the "deer in the headlights" Savage. And he clearly has arm talent. He can zing it, no doubt about that. He has an NFL starting arm.

But he just goes bad Savage way to often and is simply not good enough to make up for it. I'll grant you that Lamm is a joke at LT and Savage had about a second - still, the way he is just so careless with the ball when he knows what he has on his blindside... I dunno, but there is a reason why he's good for a strip sack a game. And it's not getting better. Then he has two INT's that were both bad reads and/or bad throws.

And he isn't a dynamic playmaker that can go out and make up for a couple of mistakes per game. He also seems to cave when the pressure is on. In short, he clearly does not have "it".

Savage's path to winning is to play a completely clean game, throw to the open guy, and keep everyone on schedule. He's got game manager written all over him - but with limited upside. Think a lead-footed (but stronger armed) Schaub at very best. And that's pushing it. I think he can play in the NFL, but as a long term starter? I simply don't see it. He's a #2 and a spot starter at best.

The question is do the Texans attempt to keep him? He's done enough where you can throw him out there to mop up or give him a spot start, but he isn't a #2 that's going to step in for Watson and win consistently. And he's made enough mistakes that I don't see any market for him as a starter. I mean who would sign him to starter money? So...point being he might be content to stay here and backup Watson. There are worse gigs out there.

Who out there would be a serious upgrade to Savage that's available. And you're not rocking a rookie at #2 next year imo. So like it or not, I favor trying to bring him back for #2 duties. Draft a kid late that is more in the mold of Watson that can be developed for a #2, but for now, I'd bring back Savage.
 
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