Well atleast you're thinking.
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Save us Savage!!!!!!!
- Thread starter PockyAF
- Start date
Well atleast you're thinking.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
It's first game of preseason. Let the kinks work out.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maybe you should think back to how much better a largely same OL looked with Schaub instead of Carr. 80 is right, the QB play greatly affects how the OL looks.
If RS is dictating who starts at the QB position, O'b is not the coach you think he is.
If whoever starts DeShaun Watson week 1 & he struggles for 5 straight games, whoever screwed up. They screwed up thinking Watson was ready, they screwed up getting him ready.
I've tried to be clear. I think they drafted Watson with the idea that he will start sooner rather than later. I believe they are working towards getting him ready to start week 1. I thought they believed he was on track to do so.
After watching him tonight... I think they've got a lot of work to do to get him "ready."
On the one hand, I like what we saw out of Alfred Blue, D'Onta Foreman, & Kareem Hunt. Add Lamar Miller & I can see a run heavy game plan that would allow them to start a less than ready DeShaun Watson, but I don't think they would/should.
If Tom Savage struggles moving the ball against New England's first team defense for two or three series... maybe they will.
I think there was a stark difference in the OL play between Fitzpatrick & Mallett. With Fitz, looked like a lot of confusion, like Fitz was calling out something totally contrary to what they were seeing.
Mallett got in there & it looked like they were all on the same page.
That said, I don't think that's the problem with Savage.
cland
Rookie
Savage won't be trade bait, as this year is the last on his contract.
Yeah... that's the reason.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Schaub had a better OL and Foster which is nothing compared to what Carr was straddled with in his first few seasons. By the time Schaub was on the scene those areas of failure were being corrected. So in all reality it goes the other way as well...the OL play greatly affects how effective the QB and RB's can be.
I will always side with the opinion of; a great OL has a better chance of making a below average QB look great versus a great QB making a below average OL look great. There is just for more historical NFL evidence to this statement than the other way around.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Rather clearly wasn't talking about Carr's first few years. Was talking about Carr's last (2006 - 43 sacks) and Schaub's 1st (2007 - 22 sacks). The lines were substantially the same. Foster came in 2009. Ron Dayne was the leading rusher both years. And that's with Carr being a far more mobile QB than Schaub.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
By 2006 Carr was a shell-shocked QB who was lucky to just be on a football field. It was absolutely atrocious what this organization did to this young QB out of the gate. That OL should have sent SOS flares by the 8th game to the organization that their new priority would be an OL to protect their young franchise QB going into year 2...but, for whatever reason, they ran him back out there with the same Swiss cheese OL and expecting different results. Boy, that reminds of another quip; "putting the cart before the horse" or in this case the "horses".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's bunk. Carr was his own demise from day 1. Spent only the minimum required time at the facilities. No extra film study. No bonding with his teammates. Wouldn't learn the simplest of things like not running out of bounds with the ball, which counts as a sack. Throw the ball away dumbass. Having his family at practices and constantly telling him he was just fine. These are things his brother has worked on with resulting NFL success.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
You guys are going to mess up the legend that puts every bit of Carr's lack of development on the Texans and little to none of it on his own shoulders if you keep this up.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I am going to break down Savage's first drive.
The first play he had CJ open right away but appeared to be locked on to Hopkins, Lamm's block was pathetic, he got blown up, but Savage still had almost 3 full seconds before he was being wrapped up. He should have fired right to CJ (who was on the same side as Hopkins, so it was an easy read). That was just a poor play on Savage IMO. He reacted slowly and missed an easy read. Lamm isn't made to be the RT
The next play was a run
The last play of the drive, again he has about 3 seconds to do something. He just stood there doing nothing before the pocket collapsed. The all 22 video doesn't have the coaches film yet, so I can't see downfield the WRs. The OL definitely isn't in sync yet, but Savage had time to unload the ball but didn't. He looks exactly like he did last year. Nothing's changed with his play IMO.
The first play he had CJ open right away but appeared to be locked on to Hopkins, Lamm's block was pathetic, he got blown up, but Savage still had almost 3 full seconds before he was being wrapped up. He should have fired right to CJ (who was on the same side as Hopkins, so it was an easy read). That was just a poor play on Savage IMO. He reacted slowly and missed an easy read. Lamm isn't made to be the RT
The next play was a run
The last play of the drive, again he has about 3 seconds to do something. He just stood there doing nothing before the pocket collapsed. The all 22 video doesn't have the coaches film yet, so I can't see downfield the WRs. The OL definitely isn't in sync yet, but Savage had time to unload the ball but didn't. He looks exactly like he did last year. Nothing's changed with his play IMO.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Preseason Week 1 games often turn into a ****-show with this franchise. Not every year (sometimes it's the other teams turn to screw the pooch) but you guys with raging boners for Watson right now sure seem to think you learned a lot last night about the guy you want to get the hell out of the way.
I'd like to see more of both of them. Rust is knocked off now so next week I expect them both to start faster and play better.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
First off, I want whoever is the best to start. Savage is middle of the road, JAG. If you can honestly sit here and say that you noticed no difference between the two QBs then I guess we have nothing to discuss. Watson was quicker in his decisions, more smooth with his throws and just flat out much more athletic. Savage looks the exact same as he always has.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I think it's preseason and we have a small sample size to grade the qbs. We need to watch the next three games to draw any informed conclusions.
We have a lot to be excited about with Watson, but be cautiously optimistic. The coaches have a plan to bring him along and promote him to starter at the appropriate time.
I don't think OB will be quick to yank Savage like the Hoyer/Mallet year. But won't wait as long as he did with Savage like he did with Brock.
When we start losing games because of Savage starting the second game of the season we could see Watson.
I don't see the pint of rushing things along. Especially if this oline is bad. Let Savage take the beating and work out the kinks for Watson.
We have a lot to be excited about with Watson, but be cautiously optimistic. The coaches have a plan to bring him along and promote him to starter at the appropriate time.
I don't think OB will be quick to yank Savage like the Hoyer/Mallet year. But won't wait as long as he did with Savage like he did with Brock.
When we start losing games because of Savage starting the second game of the season we could see Watson.
I don't see the pint of rushing things along. Especially if this oline is bad. Let Savage take the beating and work out the kinks for Watson.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
First off I want whoever is the best to start too so lets get that out of the way to begin with.
Second, your estimation of Savage is I think in some way colored by your excitement over Watson (who was indeed exciting to watch last night and I think he's going to be a good one). The entire offense came out in two series and pretty much crapped the bed. Then they put a drive together and scored a TD. Savage was not playing like a middle of the road JAG during that drive. Not at all. That's you picking your starting QB based on the first preseason game of the year.
You see what you want in Savage and Watson and then filter out what you doesn't fit your opinions about them. It's too soon for that so slow your roll a bit man. Lets see another week of them both. It's not like we don't have that luxury right? We're going to get three more preseason games out of these guys. OK, really two more as Weeden will probably play the lion's share of that last game. I hate that last preseason game by the way and never want to see valuable players spend much time in it. You got a bunch of guys who are going to get cut the next day out there trying to make an impression and it's just not a good place to put your valuable assets. I hope both Savage and Watson spend almost no time in that game.
But two more weeks to see them both play is good stuff and lets see how that goes before we crown Watson. I want him to play. I really do. I just don't want him to go out there without a complete understanding of the playbook and making **** up all over the place. Vince Young could do that. Where is he now? I want him to be ready when he takes the reigns and maybe even a little bit pissed off that it took so long to get around Savage. Highly educated/motivated Watson with a chip on his shoulder seems like the way to go to me.
I just think you guys got way too excited too fast last night watching him. Everything that went wrong with Savage was his fault and everything that went wrong for Watson was somebody else's fault is what that thread sounds like to me when I read it. I get it. Football has been gone a long time and everyone wants to see the new first round QB we gave up so much for be a stud. He will be. Just don't get in such a big hurry to throw him in the deep end yet is all I'm saying. We got a few weeks for this to play out.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Maybe somewhere along the line you misunderstood me.
We know what Savage is, for good or bad it's true.
As for Watson we have no idea, even though we can hope we know. In order for us to really know his ability, we have to give him some opportunity. I think you have to start Watson this week and bring Savage off the bench like you did last night, but in reverse. If Watson looks good and is showing signs of being an upgrade and has a grasp of his responsibility, then you start him week 3 to see if he can handle some miniature game planning. If he craps the bed in either week, you can always roll with Savage in the opener. You can play it off as getting Watson more reps with the 1s so he is ready if his number is called. Savage will still be able to go out and execute to his ability.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I would add that opinion will be colored by the fact that Savage and Watson have two different styles of quarterbacking. Savage is your classic pocket QB and Watson is your classic mobile QB. Watson will be more exciting to watch. But the prettiest drive last night was that third series.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Thank you Cak. If I had a dollar every time I heard that crap, I'd be rich. And it's really irritating hearing those excuses from Texans fans who know better. Carr was definitely fucked with a terrible Oline especially after the investment in Boselli went to a total waste and stripped the cap of the resources to pay someone else at that position. A lot of unfortunate luck from the start there and Carr was dealt a bad situation. However, he didn't give what he needed to give in order to become the leader and the technition he needed to become to play that position. He wasn't there early enough studying film and schemes, and how to adjust and what to look for. He was a family guy and enjoyed his personal time to much to thrive at the position. Luckily it seems like Derek has learned from those mistakes. I generally think that David just didn't know better though honestly. New team and franchise and it was ran really poorly at first all around. David never adjusted at any point to become obsessed with being great like other QB's do. At some point he should have.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
We don't "know what Savage is". I don't agree with that at all. We've seen him play two games at the end of the year coming in off the bench in one other game. He wasn't bad but he also didn't take over the games. I didn't care much for the offense last year but on the one drive I saw last night where he overcame repeated penalties he looked great to me. Again I think there's still improvement coming in his game. Upside I think probably goes to Watson who has more of it than Savage. That's undeniable. Teach him the offense and get him ready but you need to win games from week one on so you don't steal reps with the 1's to do it when you have a guy who knows the offense and has a quality arm you are planning to start. This isn't a race. Watson will be just as exciting a player if he comes in for Savage in Week 3, Week 6, or Week 10. What he can do well isn't going anywhere. What he still needs to learn needs to be in place before you run him out there.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
The problem with that is in what royalty said in the gameday thread, both of these guys need the time with the first team in preparation for the season. You want whoever you have playing the majority of the third game to be your starter week 1. Both these guys are inexperienced.
I think you play your first team offense for a full half, maybe more in this second game. The offense needs work, especially the OL, WRs, and the QBs. In that time, you let Savage and Watson get an almost equal amount of drives and time in so that you have a good idea of how you are going to approach the third preseason game.
I also don't think we know what we have in Savage outside of that he's prone to be on IR, whether through injury or stashing, and his internal clock is a bit slow right now. That's not a lot.
Both these guys deserve equal time with the 1's and I hope that they get it so the staff can make a more informed decision on who is starting week 3.
With that said, BOB may decide to split time again in week 3 and not even play Weeden in that game, who knows.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If we had an experienced solid vet, a healthy Schaub level QB, I could see sitting Watson. But we don't. It'd be a miracle for Savage to take us to the SB. So take your lumps this year and have Watson ready and experienced as possible for next year.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
You know what was impossible to ignore about both of these players games last night? When the running game was working both of them looked like guys we could win behind. That's the offense and how it's designed to work. We run the damned football and when we can't everything on that side of the ball just sort of deflates like a slow, wet fart. Same sound and everything.
Miller is getting paid like a franchise back and I just don't see it. He can make plays but he's not a franchise back and he's not ever going to be one. In fact it looked like last season he was just slowly being ground down by that role and while I love his heart and desire to be that guy he made 14 games last year and then was done. All that work for a little over a thousand yards and I'm pretty sure if you force-fed Hunt those carries he could have topped that number or at least matched it.
I think Foreman and maybe Hunt and Blue (assuming he's really ready to rumble this year to keep his job) are going to be better options and Miller is best suited to going back to the third down role. It will help both QB's in the long run to play with a better back than Lamar Miller as well as to have Miller in the backfield on third downs.
Miller is getting paid like a franchise back and I just don't see it. He can make plays but he's not a franchise back and he's not ever going to be one. In fact it looked like last season he was just slowly being ground down by that role and while I love his heart and desire to be that guy he made 14 games last year and then was done. All that work for a little over a thousand yards and I'm pretty sure if you force-fed Hunt those carries he could have topped that number or at least matched it.
I think Foreman and maybe Hunt and Blue (assuming he's really ready to rumble this year to keep his job) are going to be better options and Miller is best suited to going back to the third down role. It will help both QB's in the long run to play with a better back than Lamar Miller as well as to have Miller in the backfield on third downs.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Can we please stop thinking certain fans are against Savage or vice versa. Amazing80 was fair in his assessment on Savage.
I loved how Coach Bill O’Brien made adjustments to get him and that oline going.
Well done coach
I loved how Coach Bill O’Brien made adjustments to get him and that oline going.
Well done coach
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I see your point but I disagree. I think a little more of Savage than you do I guess. I think the guy needs to be prepped through preseason the way Brock was last year and then I think we'll find that we do have a Schaub level QB in Savage.
But if he's not in the Texans plans long term (and with Watson on the roster how could he be?) then sure. Why go through the whole BS dog and pony show in the first place? Out of some misplaced desire to see Watson "earn" the job by beating out Tom Savage? Seriously? That's just dumb and I guess it wouldn't be the first time I've thought of the Texans brain trust as dumb so yeah, you're probably right. Just start Watson and start getting him ready for the season opener.
The Texans never do that though. Ever since Schaub fell apart they've been alternating between handing the job to limited veterans and running young guys out there with a minimum of preparation and expecting results. Throw Keenum out there mid season with no running game and expect results, hand the job to Fitzpatrick and expect results, Bring in Mallett and give him a shot then bring in Hoyer too and go back and forth never getting either one truly ready to be your starter. How did they think that was going to end?
At least Brock got a preseason as the #1 and all the first team reps he could wish for. His failure was indisputably on himself IMO but then send out Savage to clean up and before you even give him a proper training camp and preseason like Brock got they're drafting Watson and now they'll be sending him out there at some point without the preparation he should get.
The Texans just never change.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Savage is definitely not in their long term plans, but there is something to be said for letting a guy get his bearings & that is Savage's value to this team & Watson himself right now...& the Texans & NFL overall are usually VERY consistent about that.
I know as a fan its easy to want to advance the timeline and just hand Watson the keys, but from what I saw last night, he's not ready...but then again, I'm always in favor of letting these young guys sit for at least 11 weeks while they learn how to study tape, prepare for games on this level & learn how to become a pro in general. We as fans to a very large extent underestimate the adjustment these players have to make when they go from playing football part time in college, to now playing football full time as your job; I think many of the players do too honestly.
That whole starting rookies right out of the gate is something reserved for generational talents which Watson is not. There's no favorable data to suggest that sitting these guys for an allotted time is going to increase the odds of them realizing their potential, I just think the bad far outweighs the good when you talk about throwing them out there before they're truly ready. Confidence is a funny thing.
That maybe, the point was that the QB can make a world of difference how good/bad an OL looks.
Tom Savage holding the ball (Watson too) doesn't help the OL
Eventually, that's what this team became. One last paycheck to a lot of players.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
QB Tom Savage proves he up to the task as Texans' starter
Chron.com
CHARLOTTE, N.C. - You could almost hear the disgruntled sighs escaping Texans fans in Houston all the way to Bank of America Stadium.
It wasn't a great start.
Tom Savage was a mess on the first two drives of the Texans preseason opener against Carolina.
He was holding the ball for what felt like forever and was getting little help from the offensive line. He threw a couple incomplete pass, took a couple hits.
For the first few minutes of the game, you had to wonder if the quarterback situation in Houston was once again going to be a big problem.
But by the third drive, everyone could relax.
Savage looked like a starting quarterback - a pretty good one - in the NFL.
He completed his next nine passes, went 9-of-11 for 69 yards and managed the offense with confidence and poise for the rest of the first quarter.
He found a rhythm, and the rest of the offense followed suit.
Reliable option
Bill O'Brien has made it clear that Savage is the Texans starting quarterback.
In his first game action this year, he looked at ease in that position.
Savage hasn't said much about being the starter since O'Brien announced it on the night the Texans drafted Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson.
The chatter isn't going to stop. Watson looked great in his debut on Wednesday night, completing 15 of 25 passes for 179 yards and rushing for a 15-yard touchdown. Many think the rookie should get a shot at starting.
It's understandable. Watson is the shiny, new toy. He is exciting, intriguing and could be the franchise quarterback the Texans have yearned for for years.
How the quarterbacks fared
Starter Tom Savage played the first three series before giving way to rookie Deshaun Watson, who played into the fourth quarter.
QB Comp./Att. Pct. Yds. Long Sacks/Yds. TD Int. Rating
Tom Savage 9/11 81.8 69 18 1/5 0 0 92.8
Deshaun Watson 15/25 60.0 179 34 3/15 0 0 81.9
But for now, Watson is learning, growing and improving. The Texans are invested in building him up.
That leaves Savage.
His teammates and coaches have commented on how hard he's working. O'Brien has been complimentary of his presence in meetings. He's worked well with the other quarterbacks - Watson and Brandon Weeden.
He joked at practice in West Virginia the other day that he hasn't given many of the rookies on the team advice about playing in games because he's only played in four regular season ones in his three years in the league.
On Wednesday night in a stadium that was splattered with Clemson fans waiting to see Watson, Savage stepped up.
He didn't look amazing. There will be no Tom Brady comparisons any time soon.
But he did like a guy the Texans can rely on to keep getting better and to lead them when the season starts in a month.
Watson excites
Heading into Wednesday night's game, there were so many questions surrounding the quarterbacks.
All three have had good showings in camp, but seeing them on the field in Charlotte in a game setting answered some of those concerns.
Savage only played a quarter. That's all O'Brien needed to see. There was no need to risk anything by keeping him out longer. He will continue to be the guy in camp and will get more reps in the upcoming preseason games - the next in Houston on Aug. 19 against the Patriots.
The fans cloaked in Clemson orange at the game Wednesday got to see plenty of Watson.
Watson has been a reason for excitement since the moment he was drafted No. 12 overall by the Texans in April.
In his first appearance with the Texans, he did not disappoint.
It didn't take him long to calm down. And once he did, the athleticism, explosiveness and intelligence he displayed at Clemson was on display on the bigger stage.
Watson is the future of the Texans. And it's bright.
As well as he played on Wednesday night, though, nothing has changed.
Savage is the starter.
He may not be all season, but he's it for now. And that's not a decision to scoff at.
Ready now
Watson is going to be fun to watch. He's only going to get better. His potential is through the roof already.
Savage is a good option now. He, too, will improve. But he's ready to start now and gives the team time to work with their rookie.
Savage had a slow start Wednesday night. And for a few minutes, the quarterback woes that seem to hang over the Texans looked like they could be back.
But he quickly shook it off and found his way.
Right now, he's the starter.
And on Wednesday night, it looked like that could work out for the Texans.
Chron.com
CHARLOTTE, N.C. - You could almost hear the disgruntled sighs escaping Texans fans in Houston all the way to Bank of America Stadium.
It wasn't a great start.
Tom Savage was a mess on the first two drives of the Texans preseason opener against Carolina.
He was holding the ball for what felt like forever and was getting little help from the offensive line. He threw a couple incomplete pass, took a couple hits.
For the first few minutes of the game, you had to wonder if the quarterback situation in Houston was once again going to be a big problem.
But by the third drive, everyone could relax.
Savage looked like a starting quarterback - a pretty good one - in the NFL.
He completed his next nine passes, went 9-of-11 for 69 yards and managed the offense with confidence and poise for the rest of the first quarter.
He found a rhythm, and the rest of the offense followed suit.
Reliable option
Bill O'Brien has made it clear that Savage is the Texans starting quarterback.
In his first game action this year, he looked at ease in that position.
Savage hasn't said much about being the starter since O'Brien announced it on the night the Texans drafted Clemson quarterback Deshaun Watson.
The chatter isn't going to stop. Watson looked great in his debut on Wednesday night, completing 15 of 25 passes for 179 yards and rushing for a 15-yard touchdown. Many think the rookie should get a shot at starting.
It's understandable. Watson is the shiny, new toy. He is exciting, intriguing and could be the franchise quarterback the Texans have yearned for for years.
How the quarterbacks fared
Starter Tom Savage played the first three series before giving way to rookie Deshaun Watson, who played into the fourth quarter.
QB Comp./Att. Pct. Yds. Long Sacks/Yds. TD Int. Rating
Tom Savage 9/11 81.8 69 18 1/5 0 0 92.8
Deshaun Watson 15/25 60.0 179 34 3/15 0 0 81.9
But for now, Watson is learning, growing and improving. The Texans are invested in building him up.
That leaves Savage.
His teammates and coaches have commented on how hard he's working. O'Brien has been complimentary of his presence in meetings. He's worked well with the other quarterbacks - Watson and Brandon Weeden.
He joked at practice in West Virginia the other day that he hasn't given many of the rookies on the team advice about playing in games because he's only played in four regular season ones in his three years in the league.
On Wednesday night in a stadium that was splattered with Clemson fans waiting to see Watson, Savage stepped up.
He didn't look amazing. There will be no Tom Brady comparisons any time soon.
But he did like a guy the Texans can rely on to keep getting better and to lead them when the season starts in a month.
Watson excites
Heading into Wednesday night's game, there were so many questions surrounding the quarterbacks.
All three have had good showings in camp, but seeing them on the field in Charlotte in a game setting answered some of those concerns.
Savage only played a quarter. That's all O'Brien needed to see. There was no need to risk anything by keeping him out longer. He will continue to be the guy in camp and will get more reps in the upcoming preseason games - the next in Houston on Aug. 19 against the Patriots.
The fans cloaked in Clemson orange at the game Wednesday got to see plenty of Watson.
Watson has been a reason for excitement since the moment he was drafted No. 12 overall by the Texans in April.
In his first appearance with the Texans, he did not disappoint.
It didn't take him long to calm down. And once he did, the athleticism, explosiveness and intelligence he displayed at Clemson was on display on the bigger stage.
Watson is the future of the Texans. And it's bright.
As well as he played on Wednesday night, though, nothing has changed.
Savage is the starter.
He may not be all season, but he's it for now. And that's not a decision to scoff at.
Ready now
Watson is going to be fun to watch. He's only going to get better. His potential is through the roof already.
Savage is a good option now. He, too, will improve. But he's ready to start now and gives the team time to work with their rookie.
Savage had a slow start Wednesday night. And for a few minutes, the quarterback woes that seem to hang over the Texans looked like they could be back.
But he quickly shook it off and found his way.
Right now, he's the starter.
And on Wednesday night, it looked like that could work out for the Texans.
I'm ready to move on if Watson ain't the one. Whether it takes two Years to determine, three years, four... the sooner we start, the sooner we find out.
Again, I think it's pretty clear the Texans don't believe Tom Savage is the guy. Their actions the last three seasons say as much.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Texansballer74
The Marine
What !! How isn't he ready again? Now I really hope he starts day one so he could prove and shut you naysayers up.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Thunderkyss exactly. I keep telling people to stop believing all the Savage hype coming out of our camp. Their actions says otherwise
To surmise, you don't believe our QB guru knows what preparation a QB "needs" to prepare him for the regular season.
No argument from me. I think O'Brien is a much better HC than offensive coordinator... But what're you going to do.
So... what do you think is the "proper preparation"?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I kind of agree with you even if I don't necessarily agree with the Texans. Looking at it objectively if they really believed he was going to be the one they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Brock (much less drafted Watson). Then they say he's the starter but they've put themselves in a position where no matter what he does this season they aren't going to re-sign him. He's a FA after this year and it's really doubtful that anything short of a deep playoff run with very clear signs that he was the difference maker would even prompt them to consider trying to bring him back. They basically are giving a guy a shot who they clearly have no intention of bringing back.
Looking around at the state of QB play in the NFL I feel like if Savage just doesn't **** the bed and protects the ball he's going to get a deal from some QB hungry team next year and I'm sure he'll be ready to go. He has to be able to read the writing on the wall too.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Brock got a fair shot IMO. Signed to be the starter, given the reps and encouraged to walk the walk from the day he was signed. Fitz was the last guy to get that before Brock.
The Mallett/Hoyer game was just dumb in my mind and wasted the time of everyone involved. Find a guy and get behind him. As someone else said in here not long ago (because I just read it but can't remember where) "confidence is a funny thing". There are situations where you want to see a guy earn the starting spot but I don't think that's always necessary. There are also situations where you just need to make a decision and get behind it. I don't think O'Brien necessarily always knows which one he's in. Lets face it, since he arrived the QB chase has been a grabasstic mess here.
I don't think he's ready either.
I mentioned before the game what I'd like to see before I deem Watson ready. I want to see the ball come out on time. Ball out on third step of a three step drop, that kind of stuff.
To me, that says he knows the offense & his presnap reads are dead on. I don't expect it to always come out on time. Even Tom Brady gets it wrong every now & then. But he needs to get it right more often than he did last night. I understand he played with the twos & threes, I factor that in & leads me to the next point.
If by chance the defense is on its game & sniffed the play out to a tee, I want to see how Watson works & feels the pocket. I thought he did pretty good. Kid's got poise.
Next is what does he do when it all goes to crap... well, actually how.. or maybe when. Does he wait to long to bail, cut & run, or throw it away? Or does he not wait long enough, not giving those other 10 guys opportunity to make something happen? Just going by what I saw last night, I think he's more apt to wait too long.
My biggest issue with what I saw last night was that Tom Savage graded out the same or worse than Watson in those same three things. Tom holds the ball too long, looking for something to manifest. Maybe it's the receiver' s problem, maybe it's the lines... But I find it hard to believe everybody but Tom Savage understands our OL is suspect.
I didn't see anything to suggest Tom Savage reads defenses well enough to set protections, adjust the run, know how his receivers will adjust their routes, or where to start his progression. If we're not in a hurry up offense, atch how the ball doesnt move. That says something. The same thing it said about Brock, except Tom's been in this offense going on three years now.
I think Savage's poise is equally as good as Watson's. I don't think Savage ever panics, but if he doesn't start getting the ball out on time, how long is that going be the case? If the other team plays their ones for a whole game... are we going to cross mid field?
I think Savage's fight or flight instincts are broken. He consistently waits too long to realize it's time to bail.
In no way am I saying Watson is better. But three years vs start... it's a lot closer than it should be.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Spoken like a true fan...we want the instant gratification of seeing him scrambling around making plays with his feet b/c it gives us something tangible to link to the possibility of what he can be. The reality is that he's doing that b/c that's all he knows how to do to try to move the chains........... b/c he's not ready to beat teams as a passer from the pocket.
We need to temper that urge and give the kid time to develop mentally so that he's as mentally prepared as can be.
the bottom line is the upside on this kid is through the roof and you don't wanna do anything....ANYTHING that will make it harder for him to reach that or impede his development as a passer.
I've seen it too many times from guys with his skill set. Start them early right out of the gate, they wow people their 1st year by running around and making plays with their feet b/c that's all they can really do. then DC's adjust, make them into pocket passers, and they cant consistently beat teams that way b/c they never fully finished developing as passers in the 1st place.
Texas Jake
Rookie
Many on this mb believe the Texan's have basically written Savage off as a serious option, and there is certainly evidence to support such an opinion, but I am not entirely convinced that is the case. I think the move to sign Brock may well have been more Rick and McNair pushing it and O'Brien conceding. Without the pressure to find a QB last season, BOB may have been content to hand the reins over to Tom. I think BOB's opinion of Savage at the time may have been he thought Tom could be the guy, but not confident enough that he could perform and/or stay off the IR to push the issue or go with him.
The move to get Watson does not necessarily say to me that BOB doesn't believe in Savage, it does say he doesn't believe in him enough to stake the future of the team on him. If that is the case, I believe that the QB position is Savage's to lose this season and there are not plans in place already to hand it over to Watson game 1 or mid-way through the season. Game one of the season I believe Tom is the starter unless he falls apart during preseason. If Savage can play like he did that third series, he keeps the job all season and this team has a good chance to go deep into the playoffs.
I apears that most of you don't expect much from Savage, I am more optimistic and think he could be a pretty decent QB. The biggest thing that worries me is if he can stay off IR.
Well, that's my two cents for what is worth (probably about a cent and a half).
The move to get Watson does not necessarily say to me that BOB doesn't believe in Savage, it does say he doesn't believe in him enough to stake the future of the team on him. If that is the case, I believe that the QB position is Savage's to lose this season and there are not plans in place already to hand it over to Watson game 1 or mid-way through the season. Game one of the season I believe Tom is the starter unless he falls apart during preseason. If Savage can play like he did that third series, he keeps the job all season and this team has a good chance to go deep into the playoffs.
I apears that most of you don't expect much from Savage, I am more optimistic and think he could be a pretty decent QB. The biggest thing that worries me is if he can stay off IR.
Well, that's my two cents for what is worth (probably about a cent and a half).
We should define "struggle." If we're saying he's met with failures after failure due in part to his "struggle" (like Aikman or Peyton), I'd rather Savage takes all those. If we're talking struggle like winning games off of solid defense, & a heck of a kicking game... Watson.
If I felt Watson could convert third downs in the 4th qtr, the way Keenum couldn't, I'd start him.
If I felt like we need gimmicks to move the ball on offense... I wouldn't.
But.. If O'b makes the wrong decision & starts Watson when he isn't ready, he's got to ride it out like he did with Osweiler.
Texas Jake
Rookie
Which ever QB is the starter game one, whether Watson, Savage, or Weeden, they need to be committed to them enough to allow them the opportunity to grow into the position. They play until they prove they aren't the answer.
I'm not sure reading this how much of the game you got to watch, but just to give a heads up ... Watson did make throws from the pocket within the offense. He even moved the chains doing so, and as another poster (bah) pointed out earlier he did so while executing blitz pick up presnap and hot read post snap.
Like I said though, just a heads up from the idea that all he showed he can do is run around and make plays with his feet.
I'm going to assume you wrote this before seeing my other post. I want to see Watson get the ball out on time much more consistently than what we saw last night before he starts. I think he has a long way to go.