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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

steelbtexan said:
You would Be spineless too with millions of $$$$ on the line.

It's easy to take your stance when it's not your $$$$.
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So in addition to being spineless he also lacks confidence. At one time, you had me convinced O'Brien was ready to move on to bigger & better things.

I guess his contract doesn't really state he has final say of the 53. Because if it does, he'd still get his millions if he was fired for doing what his contract says he can do.
 
thunderkyss said:
So in addition to being spineless he also lacks confidence. At one time, you had me convinced O'Brien was ready to move on to bigger & better things.

I guess his contract doesn't really state he has final say of the 53. Because if it does, he'd still get his millions if he was fired for doing what his contract says he can do.
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Do you really think Jimmy Raye/Watson etc... were BOB's choices? Ricky is running this franchises on the field product. Dont worry about this BOB will be gone after this season.

Why do you think the Texans org didn't sign a single FA this yr when 31 other teams did? Do you think that was BOB's who said I think it would be a great idea to not add talent to the roster? This doesn't even mention the fact that the Texans dont have a pick until the 3rd rd in next yrs draft.

Tell you what lets take this to the AE Rick Smith thread.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Even though he threw off his back foot, it was still completed. Again that pump fake allowed his receiver to get some seperation. I really don't understand why you are complaining or being so critical on a veteran type play. If anything you should be given him praise.

Who is given him to much credit. He made some good plays/decision and had some bad plays.
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Dude please try to understand...I want the kid to succeed. I wanted the Texans to draft a qb in the 1st like everyone in this forum/city and Watson was my guy in terms of the prospect that I wanted them to draft.

But im not going to praise everything he does just b/c of that. He's got a lot of work to do to improve and become the franchise qb we all hope he can be.

The pump fake was unnecessary...it was him ready to go to his TE before the TE came out of his break and him not trusting what he sees and anticipated.....He did it at least 1 other time in his time on the field Wednesday..but that's ok, you see that kind of stuff with rookie qbs a lot.

You want to give him credit and say it was a "veteran" move, fine...but I know better. I know that had that Lb been Luke Keuchly or Thomas Davis....you know the 2 starters in the middle for CAR, that unnecessary pump fake is an int b/c it's a "tell" to them much like how safeties read the eyes and head movements of qbs.

At the end of the day, there's no significant advantage to starting him day 1. We made the playoffs 2 straight years with utter **** at the qb position, so whether he or Savage starts, I have a hard time believing either will be much worse than "the Oz", fitz-tragic or hoyllet. However, trotting Watson out there before he's ready could potentially ruin him if his confidence is affected....especially with an o-line that has questions all up and down it. Not worth the risk imo. Keep him on the bench as long as you can.
 
Mr teX said:
The pump fake was unnecessary...it was him ready to go to his TE before the TE came out of his break and him not trusting what he sees and anticipated.....He did it at least 1 other time in his time on the field Wednesday..but that's ok, you see that kind of stuff with rookie qbs a lot.
.
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I don't think I've ever seen someone point to a pump fake as a negative.

But I get what you're saying. Let's be real, identify his shortcomings & let's see if he progresses.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think I've ever seen someone point to a pump fake as a negative.

But I get what you're saying. Let's be real, identify his shortcomings & let's see if he progresses.
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Elite arm talent gets away with doing things like that, everyone else they tell to commit to the throw once you make up your mind.....especially when you're throwing in the middle of the field.

He's a rook I expect him to do things like that...
 
Byrds Man said:
I predict that someday there will be a statue erected of Tom Savage.
Oh wait, he already is one.
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Savage only needs to be smart enough to know when to run...he's not a RB or a QB with WR speed, he's pocket style QB in O'Brien's offense first and foremost. For reference, two bigger statues are Brady and "was" P. Manning but they know/knew when to run to make a defense pay.

Now before anyone has their head explode over the fact that I used Brady, Manning and Savage in the same post...it was only in reference to their inability to run like gazelles due to poor blocking by the OL.
 
Mr teX said:
butI knowbetter
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Really? You've been a successful NFL QB? Or are you claiming mental telepathy?

When I look at game tape I can judge what happens. I've never seen one subtitled with all 22 thoughts.

OptimisticTexan said:
Savage only needs to be smart enough to know when to run...he's not a RB or a QB with WR speed, he's pocket style QB in O'Brien's offense first and foremost. For reference, two bigger statues are Brady and "was" P. Manning but they know/knew when to run to make a defense pay.

Now before anyone has their head explode over the fact that I used Brady, Manning and Savage in the same post...it was only in reference to their inability to run like gazelles due to poor blocking by the OL.
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Manning saved his ass with possibly the greatest play fake ever. Brady gets the ball out fast, wicked fast. Something OB apparently didn't learn. Watch some Wes Welker highlight film and then look for those routes with the Texans. You don't have to look hard. 5-15 yes straight in front of the QB, no Texans.


NE wasn't built on some Will Fuller pulling in 25% chance passes 50 yds down field because he "took the top off." They were built on LB drags and slants with squirrelly WRs like Welker right in the teeth of the D.
 
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That's basically what I'm inferring...if folks here on the board want O'Brien to accommodate Watson by adjusting his offense to help his young QB, then by the same standard, he should go up-tempo no-huddle if this works better for Savage and the OL. If this gets points on the board in a single digit amount of plays...my gues is there wouldn't be anyone complaining that it didn't take 14 plays and 7 +minutes to accomplish the same goal. The goal, just win baby!
 
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infantrycak said:
Is OB an offensive coach who doesn't really like offense?

That's not rhetorical.

He was a DE and LB as a player. Can a leopard change its spots? Clearly they can, Tom Landry (actually great football player) and Jimmy Johnson were both D. But can OB?

Why change from a ZBS that worked?

Why abandon the 5-15 between the hashes? That's anti-NE.

Why watch your OC drive your 'multiple offense' off a cliff?

_______

Has OB done anything other than watch a good D?
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I saw somewhere that even Penn States offense under OBrien was bad
 
Agreed, definitely not ideal. Matt McGloin was his QB in yr 1 and Hack in yr 2. He seemed to get a lot out of each guy when he worked with him
 
otisbean said:
Agreed, definitely not ideal. Matt McGloin was his QB in yr 1 and Hack in yr 2. He seemed to get a lot out of each guy when he worked with him
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Both guys are still in the NFL.
McGloin was a Senior.
Hack was a 5- star recruit.

I wouldn't say that O' Brien walked into a bad situation at Penn St.
He inherited a team that went to a bowl games.
Several players from that team got drafted (4 after his first year and 3 after his second year; a few others made NFL rosters as UDFA, like McGloin, who's still in the NFL).

I think he did a fairly good job there, but it wasn't anywhere near a dire situation that he had to face, IMO
 
76Texan said:
Both guys are still in the NFL.
McGloin was a Senior.
Hack was a 5- star recruit.

I wouldn't say that O' Brien walked into a bad situation at Penn St.
He inherited a team that went to a bowl games.
Several players from that team got drafted (4 after his first year and 3 after his second year; a few others made NFL rosters as UDFA, like McGloin, who's still in the NFL).

I think he did a fairly good job there, but it wasn't anywhere near a dire situation that he had to face, IMO[/QUOTE.
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I disagree. I think taking over a program with the issues PS faced at that time was a tough situation
 
otisbean said:
I disagree. I think taking over a program with the issues PS faced at that time was a tough situation
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Because of course it was. The scholarship reductions, transfers of big contributors, bowl bans, and overall continuous day-to-day scrutiny of whether or not the program should even be allowed to exist moving forward made it about as dire a situation as one could find themselves in charge of.

But no, no ... it wasn't that bad, ffs.
 
otisbean said:
I disagree. I think taking over a program with the issues PS faced at that time was a tough situation
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Mollywhopper said:
Because of course it was. The scholarship reductions, transfers of big contributors, bowl bans, and overall continuous day-to-day scrutiny of whether or not the program should even be allowed to exist moving forward made it about as dire a situation as one could find themselves in charge of.

But no, no ... it wasn't that bad, ffs.
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O'Brien by all media account had an extremely difficult situation to deal with, for the above reasons and............
************************************************************************************************************************
Bill O'Brien takes command in initial Penn State football spring practice
Print Email
By Bob Flounders | bflounders@pennlive.com

on March 26, 2012 at 11:23 PM, updated March 27, 2012 at 11:23 AM


STATE COLLEGE — Bill O’Brien acts like a man with a lot to do in a very short time.

That was never more apparent than on Penn State’s first day of spring practice. It was his first day, too.

The Nittany Lions’ new leader, the successor to major college football’s all-time winningest coach, hit a lot of the right notes on Monday, beginning with his early-afternoon news briefing with the media and continuing with Penn State’s late-afternoon practice on a chilly day on an outdoor practice field.

O’Brien made it clear who’s running the show. It’s his; everyone else is just assisting. He was also all over the practice field, running an up-tempo workout with the emphasis on teaching points and a high volume of reps. Not a minute was wasted. Lots of detail and structure. O’Brien spent time with every position group.

Penn State football has an image problem. Everyone knows it after what’s transpired with the Jerry Sandusky investigation during the last several months. O’Brien, the former New England Patriots’ offensive coordinator, will have to do his part with regard to that. His marching orders are to move forward while embracing and respecting what the late Joe Paterno left behind. But O’Brien is going to need help from the administration. Lots of it.

The football end of it? That’s all on O’Brien. He’s got some good players, starting with tailback Silas Redd, linebacker Gerald Hodges and defensive tackle Jordan Hill. He also inherited many problem spots, way more than a team that finished 9-4 last season typically should have.

O’Brien knows that, too. His immediate task is made more difficult by the fact the Big Ten Conference is ultra-competitive, with Brady Hoke at Michigan, Mark Dantonio at Michigan State, Bo Pelini at Nebraska, Bret Bielema at Wisconsin and now Urban Meyer at Ohio State poaching Pennsylvania high school kids in recruiting....................Link
 
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otisbean said:
I disagree. I think taking over a program with the issues PS faced at that time was a tough situation
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What kind of tough on the field?
The talented guys chose to remain.
They were already good enough, with future in the NFL.
They showed the toughness in doing so.
There was no pressure because no bowl game to play for.
If anything, these players should be motivated and focused to play football.
The recruiting class ranked in the 40s in the country; the next class in the 20s.
The guys that choose to go there should have mental strength as well.

If anything, those players show that they are a strong bunch, with great personal motivation, and well focused.
 
Look at what Alabama did in 2002.
They were a decimated team with few big name players.
Their top RB was a transfer from TT, with just 130 carries.
They went 10-3 and was ranked 11th.
Their 3 losses were to no. 5 Oklahoma, no. 3 Georgia, and no. 14th Auburn.
 
infantrycak said:
I swear every generation of Auto Correct has gotten worse.

Somewhere there is a 95 lb geek with Cheeto fingers laughing.

It capitalized that. See?
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be1ae0745918497009cad7e85093178c.jpg
 
Mr teX said:
Right mindset, unfortunately this team was rightfully taken from him the minute #4 became a Houston Texan.
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Savage is like a poor mans Alex Smith but our offense is less creative than KCs. Savage is the perfect backup in this league, and I really want him long-term. He is safe with the ball, knows the offense, can come in and limp out a few wins, the fan base will never rally around him thus creating unnecessary wavering in the loyalty to the starter. He is the ideal backup to me. Watson is special and is gonna steal this job.
 
I won't have any sort of thoughts on this until I see these people play some real football. Maybe this weekend we'll learn something. I think you're underrating Savage though with the "Poor man's Alex Smith" By this time in Alex Smith's career he'd sucked for a solid three years and was just about to turn a little bit of a corner (but not much of one).
 
Hervoyel said:
I won't have any sort of thoughts on this until I see these people play some real football. Maybe this weekend we'll learn something. I think you're underrating Savage though with the "Poor man's Alex Smith" By this time in Alex Smith's career he'd sucked for a solid three years and was just about to turn a little bit of a corner (but not much of one).
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Alex Smith was thrown into a dumspter fire. I don't mean Savage and Smith have similar career paths, but where Smith is now is where I envision Savage being. Low risk guy who does what he is told, but will never set the world on fire with his play. He will always play it safe and while he won't really lose us games, he will never win one for us. He is the Trent Dilfer on this era. JAG on a good team
 
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Savage completed 8 of 9 passes for 98 yards, one score and no interceptions for a pristine 149.1 passer rating in nearly one quarter of action before being replaced by Watson.

"Yeah, I'm really, really comfortable with this offense," Savage said. "We have a lot of talent out there and a lot of the guys are making some big plays for me and it's been awesome."

At this stage of the preseason, Savage has done nothing to relinquish his grip on the starting job. He has yet to commit a turnover.

"From a personal standpoint, just protecting the ball that's been good," Savage said. "It's tough to get a good gauge in the preseason. It's a good foundation we're building."

Savage was sacked once as he continues to deal with some recurring pass protection issues from his offensive line.


The former fourth-round draft pick from Pittsburgh was hit hard by Patriots linebacker Kyle Van Noy in an earlier drive, with Van Noy flagged for roughing the passer.


Savage shook it off, got up and completed a 37-yard sideline throw to a leaping Bruce Ellington. Savage rolled out to his right and put some serious air under the football to give Ellington a shot in a jump-ball situation on a fly route.

"The hit felt good," Savage said. "All the guys made some big plays for me."

Midway through the preseason, Savage has completed 17 of 20 passes for 167 yards, one touchdown and no interceptions for a 120.95 passer rating.


"He threw the ball accurately," Texans coach Bill O'Brien said. "He's got good command of what we're doing. He's able to get us into the right play at the line of scrimmage, which is important for our offense."

Savage got off to a rocky start to the preseason a week ago when he went three-and-out on his initial two drives against the Carolina Panthers primarily due to a lack of pass protection with three-time Pro Bowl left tackle Duane Brown's self-imposed absence due to a contract dispute.

Against the Patriots, Savage got into a rhythm much sooner despite some breakdowns in the pocket. He showed some ability to improvise along with his toughness as he got up quickly after absorbing a big hit from Van Noy.

Savage displayed good chemistry with Ellington, a former San Francisco 49ers fourth-round draft pick who recently joined the team. He completed three passes to him for 60 yards. THE WHOLE STORY

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When Savage had his right shoulder (the one that he suffered a previous A-C separation) driven into the turf, which can only be describe by a purposeful pile driver maneuver, I held my breath............but he proved he could take a hit with the rest of them and my point that his previous injuries were not a sign that he is "injury prone."

Savage, despite having the 1st team starters, hardly could be said to have been protected and still performed calmly, commendably and consistently.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Savage, despite having the 1st team starters, hardly could be said to have been protected and still performed calmly, commendably and consistently.
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Agreed that Savage looked good but I think the starting OL looked pretty good tonight in pass protection. I was less impressed with their run blocking -- they're not getting any push or movement to open lanes. Probably belongs in the OL thread -- but I thought Lamm looked good today and Giacomini looked much better than last week.
 
Max said:
Agreed that Savage looked good but I think the starting OL looked pretty good tonight in pass protection. I was less impressed with their run blocking -- they're not getting any push or movement to open lanes. Probably belongs in the OL thread -- but I thought Lamm looked good today and Giacomini looked much better than last week.
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If O'Brien was making comments post game that Savage was not getting good protection before he even reviewed film, you can be sure that the OL was very suboptimal (kind way of saying they sucked). The media consistently reported that when Savage was in, he was exposed to recurring OL protection issues.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If O'Brien was making comments post game that Savage was not getting good protection before he even reviewed film, you can be sure that the OL was very suboptimal (kind way of saying they sucked). The media consistently reported that when Savage was in, he was exposed to recurring OL protection issues.
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To my eyes, Brady was under more pressure than Savage. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but I felt like they gave Savage a chance to make plays unlike the first few series of last week. Based on today's game -- I'm more concerned about run blocking (starters).
 
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I consider myself in Watson's corner at the moment. Savage's passes just seem to invite a lot of buckshot which I don't think flies in the real deal. Plus tonight he was holding onto the ball waaaay too long. Until I saw Hoyer tonight I was worried about him.

However, if they keep Watson safely on the sidelines until Savage forces BOB's hand (as if) I'm cool with that. When I thought of Watson starting I thought of Troy Aikman. Watson has an OL unlike Aikman, and seemingly a good feel when to run and when not to.
 
Guys, the talk of Watson starting is just plain dreaming this season. Watson isn't ready to start in this offense and he's proved it now (albeit through some exciting improvisation at times).

Give the man time to learn and be happy that we finally have what appears to be a competent QB starting for us in the meantime. Look at it like this... Is Ryan Fitzpatrick an intelligent QB? Is he smart? He is of course a very smart QB (we all know that) and he was brought here in O'Brien's first season to be the starter because he needed someone to pick up the offense as fast as possible. Fitzpatrick didn't look like he really seemed to get it through most of the year though. Wrong reads plagued him that year. He had a flash here and there though. One amazing week at Tennessee stands out but most of the season he looked confused and wild and it got him benched for Mallett at one point.

Ryan Mallett had come up in the New England system but he's inaccurate and impulsive with no touch whatsoever. For one week he looked like the answer playing in this system that he knew very well but then his nature took over (along with an injured pectoral muscle) and he showed his true colors. Back to Fitz.

Brian Hoyer had a decent grasp of this "system" having played in New England in it under O'Brien but much like Mallett he is what he is. He might have been able to grasp the offense but he couldn't stop being himself.

All this time Tom Savage has sat behind these guys learning this offense and this preseason all he's done is gone 17 of 20 for 167 yards with a TD and no interceptions. Passer rating has been 118 and yet to hear some of you it would appear he's hanging on to this job by a thread. Watson has been impressive.... with his legs but his passes have been often inaccurate and he clearly doesn't understand the offense well enough yet to be pressing Savage with anything other than his innate talent, which is considerable.

Savage gets criticized for holding on to the ball too long and he does hold it longer than Watson. That's undeniable. Have you considered that he's looking at more than Watson is? He might just be running this offense the way it's designed to be run and he is himself facing a learning curve when it comes to experience. He may be our "veteran" starter at the moment but that encompasses all of 2 starts and 5 appearances in games (2 in his rookie season for all of a quarter? Was it even a half against the Colts before he was injured?).

This week we get the Saints and starters should play a half to 3 quarters with (if memory serves) something resembling game planning taking place? If Savage improves again he'll be damn near perfect. He went from week one 9/11 for 81 yards and a 92.8 rating to 8/9 for 98 yards, 1TD and a 149.1 rating. If that arc continues in that direction I don't see how anyone can make a case for sitting him going into week one of the regular season.

O'Brien says it's a complicated offense. Why not take him at his word? Give Watson time to learn the system like Savage and work on his fundamentals and you might just see something special when he takes the field. Run him out there before he's ready and you'll be bitching about the wasted pick before long. Give him time. Savage won't be here beyond 2017 anyway. He's not under contract and if he looks like he has so far this preseason (and plays the whole year that way) then he's going to sign a fat contract with someone to be their starter.
 
Whether Watson knows the offense or not was never my deciding factor for whether or not Watson should start. My reasons were two fold...
1) He is the future
2) Can he protect himself

Personally, I think the sooner he starts the sooner this becomes the team we want it to be.

I think the Texans want Watson to start sooner rather than later. What I saw last night did not convince me he wasn't ready. He made good decisions with the ball. He didn't hurt the team.
 
Hervoyel said:
Guys, the talk of Watson starting is just plain dreaming this season. Watson isn't ready to start in this offense and he's proved it now (albeit through some exciting improvisation at times).

Give the man time to learn and be happy that we finally have what appears to be a competent QB starting for us in the meantime. Look at it like this... Is Ryan Fitzpatrick an intelligent QB? Is he smart? He is of course a very smart QB (we all know that) and he was brought here in O'Brien's first season to be the starter because he needed someone to pick up the offense as fast as possible. Fitzpatrick didn't look like he really seemed to get it through most of the year though. Wrong reads plagued him that year. He had a flash here and there though. One amazing week at Tennessee stands out but most of the season he looked confused and wild and it got him benched for Mallett at one point.

Ryan Mallett had come up in the New England system but he's inaccurate and impulsive with no touch whatsoever. For one week he looked like the answer playing in this system that he knew very well but then his nature took over (along with an injured pectoral muscle) and he showed his true colors. Back to Fitz.

Brian Hoyer had a decent grasp of this "system" having played in New England in it under O'Brien but much like Mallett he is what he is. He might have been able to grasp the offense but he couldn't stop being himself.

All this time Tom Savage has sat behind these guys learning this offense and this preseason all he's done is gone 17 of 20 for 167 yards with a TD and no interceptions. Passer rating has been 118 and yet to hear some of you it would appear he's hanging on to this job by a thread. Watson has been impressive.... with his legs but his passes have been often inaccurate and he clearly doesn't understand the offense well enough yet to be pressing Savage with anything other than his innate talent, which is considerable.

Savage gets criticized for holding on to the ball too long and he does hold it longer than Watson. That's undeniable. Have you considered that he's looking at more than Watson is? He might just be running this offense the way it's designed to be run and he is himself facing a learning curve when it comes to experience. He may be our "veteran" starter at the moment but that encompasses all of 2 starts and 5 appearances in games (2 in his rookie season for all of a quarter? Was it even a half against the Colts before he was injured?).

This week we get the Saints and starters should play a half to 3 quarters with (if memory serves) something resembling game planning taking place? If Savage improves again he'll be damn near perfect. He went from week one 9/11 for 81 yards and a 92.8 rating to 8/9 for 98 yards, 1TD and a 149.1 rating. If that arc continues in that direction I don't see how anyone can make a case for sitting him going into week one of the regular season.

O'Brien says it's a complicated offense. Why not take him at his word? Give Watson time to learn the system like Savage and work on his fundamentals and you might just see something special when he takes the field. Run him out there before he's ready and you'll be bitching about the wasted pick before long. Give him time. Savage won't be here beyond 2017 anyway. He's not under contract and if he looks like he has so far this preseason (and plays the whole year that way) then he's going to sign a fat contract with someone to be their starter.
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I agree, Watson does not scan the field or go through his reads, savage does.
 
thunderkyss said:
Whether Watson knows the offense or not was never my deciding factor for whether or not Watson should start. My reasons were two fold...
1) He is the future
2) Can he protect himself

Personally, I think the sooner he starts the sooner this becomes the team we want it to be.

I think the Texans want Watson to start sooner rather than later. What I saw last night did not convince me he wasn't ready. He made good decisions with the ball. He didn't hurt the team.
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...and he didn't face an opposing teams first team defense. With Savage playing the way O'Brien probably envisioned, this just bought Watson the team he needed to become a better QB in the long run. Watson pulling the ball down and running is working for now but when the first unit is on the field they will get to him faster and hit him harder. Also, don't think for a minute that if he's chewing up a defense with his legs that someone wont cheap shot him and take the 15 yd PF. TS can take this team as far a she can and then it's Watson's team.
 
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