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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

Nitrofish said:
So you think we can just throw any QB in there and he does not need to know the scheme?...
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No, but a lot of the talk about "scheme" and "system" is a load of poop. If you can play QB in the league, that's the main starting point.

OB seems to have a phobia about bringing in QBs he hasn't managed in the past.

The Steelers needed a backup and brought in Vick. Never mind that he's probably close to being done. I don't think he was experienced in the Tomlin (or Haley) "system" before they signed him.
 
^
Tolar's Ghost said:
Subtlety is fine.

But they - Pastorini and Moon - were just a little better than good. Like really, really good.
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Moon and MacNair were who I was thinking of.

And yeah, they were much better than just good. Those two were the best professional QBs ever to display their craft in a Houston uniform. The Texans haven't even come close.
 
Hadn't even thought of McNair.

Yep, that makes three. And Blanda was good, too.

Considering that people like Bud Adams and Ladd Herzeg were at the helm, this supports the blind squirrel theory.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
Subtlety is fine.

But they - Pastorini and Moon - were just a little better than good. Like really, really good.
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Pastorini maybe. But Moon is an all time great if you combine his CFL and NFL careers. Both are worth mentioning alone, but combining them? WOW!
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Savage seems fragile
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I don't know that I would agree with that. He had been getting hammered all night. Someone that heavy lands on you while you are falling to the ground while trying to use your bent arm, it's easy to strain (type I) that ligament in the ac joint.
ACJointSeperation-pic2.png
 
Nitrofish said:
I don't know that I would agree with that. He had been getting hammered all night. Someone that heavy lands on you while you are falling to the ground while trying to use your bent arm, it's easy to strain (type I) that ligament in the ac joint.

Well if he's not fragile then he's arian 2.0
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Nitrofish said:
I don't know that I would agree with that. He had been getting hammered all night. Someone that heavy lands on you while you are falling to the ground while trying to use your bent arm, it's easy to strain (type I) that ligament in the ac joint.
ACJointSeperation-pic2.png
Click to expand...

What bothers me is the fact that today O'brien said that Savage will undergo another MRI. (The initial one Friday revealed no fractures). Plain xrays usually can make the proper diagnosis of AC joint injury type. An MRI, though, essentially never downgrades the extend of the injury. In fact, the MRI upgrades the severity of a type I injury in 50% of cases and 20% in type II cases. Since this has already been classified as a "severe" sprain, and now an additional MRI is called for, I believe that the Texans have inadvertently revealed that Savage is dealing with a type III sprain............and will now be running an MRI arthrogram due to concern over associated injury(ies) such as labrum tears and/or intra-articular cartilage damage, which would not be necessarily identified by a standard MRI. (Remember when I pointed out the the Texans unknowingly missed Ed Reed's hip labrum tear which led to his necessitating major hip surgery, simply because they initially failed to order an MRI arthrogram in addition to the standard MRI?)

As a point of interest, a recent paper presented in March of this year at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons demonstrates a surprisingly high incidence of the associated injuries I mentioned above (even in lesser than type III AC joint injuries). (Do not become confused because you see type IV,V and VI referred to in this presentation........they do exist in the newer classification of AC joint injuries, but I did not want to make things any more complicated for you than it already may be to understand. The more basic type I, II and III classification will serve your fundamental understanding of this subject well.)


Abstract :

INTRODUCTION: Acromioclavicular (AC) joint separations are common in orthopaedic practice and frequently associated with high-impact forces to the shoulder. Despite the common occurrence of AC separations, little information is available about the incidence of intra-articular injuries that may also result from the high impact forces acting on the glenohumeral joint. Our hypothesis is that intra-articular shoulder pathology is common with acromioclavicular joint injury.

METHODS: Sixty-six patients (12 female, 54 males; ages 16-85 (average 40.5)) were clinically diagnosed with either an acute or chronic acromioclaviclar joint dislocation prospectively. Each patient then underwent an magnetic resonance arthrography (MRA) to evaluate intra-articular pathology. Besides clinical and radiographic results, intra-operative findings were recorded from 21 patients that also underwent subsequent shoulder arthroscopy.

RESULTS: In this prospective case series, there were 66 patients who were included (52 acute AC joint dislocations, one acute on chronic, and 13 with chronic AC joint dislocations). The most common mechanism of injury was a fall (25%), biking (13.7%), football (12.1%), or motor vehicle accident (12.1%). The degree of AC joint injury ranged from grade I (16.67%), grade II (50%), grade III (27.27%), and grade IV (6.06%) AC separations. MRA demonstrated associated intra-articular pathology in 47/66 patients (71.2%) overall and included (44/66, 66.7 %) superior labrum anterior posterior (SLAP) tears (all SLAP tears Type 1, 2, and 3), (12/66, 18.2%) anterior labral tears, 3/66 (4.5%) posterior labrum tear. Labral injuries occurred in 6/11, 54.55% of grade I, 22/33, 66.67% of grade II, 13/18, 72.2% of grade III, and 4/4, 100% grade IV AC separations. Coracoclavicular ligament reconstruction was performed in 4/66 (6.1%) patients. Symptomatic labral pathology required treatment in 19/66 (28.7%). Intraoperative evaluation confirmed the intra-articular injuries seen on preoperative MRA in 19/21 surgical cases (91%).

DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSION: This is the first study that systematically investigates the incidence of intra-articular shoulder injuries associated with acromioclavicular joint separations. The results demonstrate a very high rate of glenoid labral injury and suggests that the incidence increases with the severity of the AC separation. This study suggests that labral injury should be considered as a cause of acute or persistent symptoms in patients with AC separations. Keywords: Labral tears, acromioclavicular joint dislocations, SLAP tears, shoulder trauma, shoulder instability.

SUMMARY: We report a high incidence of concomitant intra-articular glenohumeral joint injuries associated with AC joint separations that suggests that careful examination of the entire shoulder girdle should be performed when evaluating AC joint injuries.
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Keep in mind that in an NFL QB, any one of these potentially associated injuries may independently become indications for surgical intervention in themselves.
 
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ATXtexanfan said:
Well if he's not fragile then he's arian 2.0
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These guys aren't out there playing checkers dude. Even a machine would break under those conditions. Bones and ligaments have limits. Perhaps you have never played the sport, I don't know. But you seem to be a bit naive calling someone fragile because they were injured when they fell awkwardly with a 270+ lb player falling on top of them.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
What bothers me is the fact that today O'brien said that Savage will undergo another MRI. (The initial one Friday revealed no fractures). Plain xrays usually can make the proper diagnosis of AC joint injury type.
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I do not understand why the most detailed type of tech is not used in most cases. Seems to me it would be better to be safe than sorry when diagnosing injuries of highly paid athletes, or anyone for that matter. Yes, I understand there is a higher cost involved, but are these teams hurting for money or something? I was unaware there were different types of MRI's.
 
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Nitrofish said:
But he does not know the system.
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Yates was with O'Brien during OTAs before being traded for Akeem Dent.
Thorn said:
^


Moon and MacNair were who I was thinking of.
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I thought you where referring to Moon and Jim Kelly. McNair wasn't a good QB yet when he was in Houston.

I'm really trying to understand why Tom Savage is worth developing. He doesn't have the decision making. The accuracy. The athleticism. Then I watch some of these young QBs that were passed on shine in preseason. Does O'Brien know good QB when he sees one?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I almost think Savage was a last resort panick grab.
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Hard for me to say panic when there were QBs like Mettenberger & Murray still on the board. I think there was reason to believe he had a higher ceiling than those guys, but after two years, I'm losing confidence in that line of thinking.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hard for me to say panic when there were QBs like Mettenberger & Murray still on the board. I think there was reason to believe he had a higher ceiling than those guys, but after two years, I'm losing confidence in that line of thinking.
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Yeah...

I just say panic because once you get into the fifth round it gets kind of hard to say a guy is your future. Not that it's easy in the fourth round either.

Anyways, I'm still upset they didn't draft TB. I know, I know...let it go...

It's just that...for all the past excuses this franchise has had for why they passed on really intriguing qb prospects....for them to have a guy sitting there at 32 like Bridgewater...and we needed a young franchise qb...and they once again elect not to go after a top qb prospect for whatever reason...it's frustrating.

And instead they go with a xsf.

I'd feel a lot better about the Texans future if we had this guy:

You'd have a young JJ Watt, and a young guy who looks like he's at least going to be a good starter and he's only 22.

Sigh. Whatever....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
It's just that...for all the past excuses this franchise has had for why they passed on really intriguing qb prospects....for them to have a guy sitting there at 32 like Bridgewater...and we needed a young franchise qb...and they once again elect not to go after a top qb prospect for whatever reason...it's frustrating.
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Dude the Vikings picked him right before we were up. He wasn't there at 32.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
What bothers me is the fact that today O'brien said that Savage will undergo another MRI. (The initial one Friday revealed no fractures). Plain xrays usually can make the proper diagnosis of AC joint injury type. An MRI, though, essentially never downgrades the extend of the injury. In fact, the MRI upgrades the severity of a type I injury in 50% of cases and 20% in type II cases. Since this has already been classified as a "severe" sprain, and now an additional MRI is called for, I believe that the Texans have inadvertently revealed that Savage is dealing with a type III sprain............and will now be running an MRI arthrogram due to concern over associated injury(ies) such as labrum tears and/or intra-articular cartilage damage, which would not be necessarily identified by a standard MRI. (Remember when I pointed out the the Texans unknowingly missed Ed Reed's hip labrum tear which led to his necessitating major hip surgery, simply because they initially failed to order an MRI arthrogram in addition to the standard MRI?)

As a point of interest, a recent paper presented in March of this year at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons demonstrates a surprisingly high incidence of the associated injuries I mentioned above (even in lesser than type III AC joint injuries). (Do not become confused because you see type IV,V and VI referred to in this presentation........they do exist in the newer classification of AC joint injuries, but I did not want to make things any more complicated for you than it already may be to understand. The more basic type I, II and III classification will serve your fundamental understanding of this subject well.)




Keep in mind that in an NFL QB, any one of these potentially associated injuries may independently become indications for surgical intervention in themselves.
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Does swelling hinder the initial MRI findings and diagnosis where a second might be done after swelling goes down for better images and confirmation of the initial diagnosis or discovery of missed injury?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Anyways, I'm still upset they didn't draft TB. I know, I know...let it go...
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There were several things I didn't like about Bridgewater at #1 overall. & several things I loved at 20 & below. The ironic thing, to me, is one of those things I hated at #1 was his size & what that would mean for his durability in the NFL, & the guy we took (who I was also not very high on) has been dealing with injury from day 1 & both our "prototypical" QBs can't finish a game without getting hurt.
 
thunderkyss said:
There were several things I didn't like about Bridgewater at #1 overall. & several things I loved at 20 & below. The ironic thing, to me, is one of those things I hated at #1 was his size & what that would mean for his durability in the NFL, & the guy we took (who I was also not very high on) has been dealing with injury from day 1 & both our "prototypical" QBs can't finish a game without getting hurt.
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Yeah. That's true.
 
Lucky said:
Yates was with O'Brien during OTAs before being traded for Akeem Dent.
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Yes I remember that, but OTA's is a basic exposure to the offense. He would still have a very large learning curve IMO. We are going to need a practice squad QB however. Be interesting to see how this shakes out of the next week.
 
Vance87 said:
OK whatever, the point was he was picked right before we were up
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And we couldn't have traded up? The Vikes traded #40 and #108 for #32 (which was a bit shy of the chart).. We could easily have out bid them with #33 and #83 (neither of whom has contributed anything). Actually #33 and #135 would have out bid them.

But odds are Lucky is correct and we had zero interest.
 
infantrycak said:
And we couldn't have traded up? The Vikes traded #40 and #108 for #32 (which was a bit shy of the chart).. We could easily have out bid them with #33 and #83 (neither of whom has contributed anything). Actually #33 and #135 would have out bid them.

But odds are Lucky is correct and we had zero interest.
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Oh how wonderful your hindsight is. It's never wrong, ever. Even if you are.

I didn't think the Vikings had any interest in him, maybe possibly we didn't either? Maybe we didn't think it was worth trading up to get a guy when we could just wait another pick? See all these maybe's and how they don't matter? WELL MAYBE- no. Just stop.

Jesus. Get over it.
 
Vance87 said:
Oh how wonderful your hindsight is. It's never wrong, ever. Even if you are.

I didn't think the Vikings had any interest in him, maybe possibly we didn't either? Maybe we didn't think it was worth trading up to get a guy when we could just wait another pick? See all these maybe's and how they don't matter? WELL MAYBE- no. Just stop.

Jesus. Get over it.
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You don't think we would have been aware of a move right in front of us to snag him? This is assuming of course we had the slightest interest in him, which it doesn't at all appear we did.
 
Mollywhopper said:
You don't think we would have been aware of a move right in front of us to snag him? This is assuming of course we had the slightest interest in him, which it doesn't at all appear we did.
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You don't know that, I don't know that, all of this is impossible to prove, so why argue? Bridgewater will never be on our team, the draft was months ago, just move it along.

I'm just tired of this mopey teen angst that has infected the boards ever since Hoyer was named the starter, like we shouldn't even bother playing the games. I mean it wasn't this bad when we were told Fitzmagic would be the #1, and in my opinion Hoyer is much better than that. I think the real games can't get here fast enough and hopefully once we start winning we can get over this.
 
Mollywhopper said:
You don't think we would have been aware of a move right in front of us to snag him? This is assuming of course we had the slightest interest in him, which it doesn't at all appear we did.
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Seriously, as if the Seahawks GM wouldn't try to get a bidding war going.

Which since we could have easily out bid them points to zero interest.
 
Vance87 said:
You don't know that, I don't know that, all of this is impossible to prove, so why argue? Bridgewater will never be on our team, the draft was months ago, just move it along.

I'm just tired of this mopey teen angst that has infected the boards ever since Hoyer was named the starter, like we shouldn't even bother playing the games. I mean it wasn't this bad when we were told Fitzmagic would be the #1, and in my opinion Hoyer is much better than that. I think the real games can't get here fast enough and hopefully once we start winning we can get over this.
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You're right, I don't know that. But what I do know is it is our front office's very job to make phone calls that find those things out. If we were interested, and if we didn't make that call to Seattle, then someone dropped the ball about as hard as it can be dropped.

And yes, it is over and done. Teddy can clearly go on to have a Pro Bowl career elsewhere. But in terms of discussing whether or not people are doing their jobs there is at least conversational relevance.
 
Geez. There's nothing whiny in saying we could have gotten him if we wanted him.

And it has jack to do with Hoyer. This whole discussion happened at the time, well before Hoyer was a Texan.
 
infantrycak said:
And we couldn't have traded up? The Vikes traded #40 and #108 for #32 (which was a bit shy of the chart).. We could easily have out bid them with #33 and #83 (neither of whom has contributed anything). Actually #33 and #135 would have out bid them.

But odds are Lucky is correct and we had zero interest.
Click to expand...

Vance87 said:
Oh how wonderful your hindsight is. It's never wrong, ever. Even if you are.

I didn't think the Vikings had any interest in him, maybe possibly we didn't either? Maybe we didn't think it was worth trading up to get a guy when we could just wait another pick? See all these maybe's and how they don't matter? WELL MAYBE- no. Just stop.

Jesus. Get over it.
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To me, it's a fairly straight-forward situation.

Yes, the #32 pick in that draft was very obtainable. Whether they didn't get it because they didn't want Bridgewater and wouldn't have taken him even if he'd been there at #33, or whether they were stupid/complacent and bet wrong about needing trade up one spot doesn't matter. They could have picked him and chose not to.

If Teddy Bridgewater becomes a successful NFL QB, the only thing that will keep it from being a big big mistake is if by the time that happens (which I realize will be a very subjective thing), the Texans have a QB on the roster who is (or who proves to be very quickly) just as good if not better.

Lots of subjectivity in that, but but if it turns out that way, and the two QB's are even remotely close in talent, it will be a "discussion" for the ages. Given where things are at this exact point in time, it would also be a "discussion" I would happily see come about.
 
Vance87 said:
Oh how wonderful your hindsight is. It's never wrong, ever. Even if you are.

I didn't think

Jesus. Get over it.
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Mollywhopper said:
You're right, I don't know that. But what I do know is it is our front office's very job to make phone calls that find those things out. If we were interested, and if we didn't make that call to Seattle, then someone dropped the ball about as hard as it can be dropped.
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If .. If .. If .. If ..

If they wanted Bridgewater, they would have moved up and gotten him. But they didn't want him. I don't why that can't get across.
 
infantrycak said:
Geez. There's nothing whiny in saying we could have gotten him if we wanted him.

And it has jack to do with Hoyer. This whole discussion happened at the time, well before Hoyer was a Texan.
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This whole discussion is happening because we still don't have a QB we like.
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
This just in: Lewis has been cut by the Browns.

The Texans hould grab him (and get his HOF career started).
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Are you dense. If, or when the Texans sign another QB, he will be a 3rd string player who will run the scout team. Should the unthinkable happen --like last season-- and he be called upon to take some snaps. It might be a good idea if he had some experience in our scheme. This is not to say he would need to be, or ever would be a HOF QB. But surely O'Brien would want someone who has at least a basic understanding of the scheme. So you can stop with all the straw man stuff.

I am asking a relevant question. If the Texans decide to sign someone to fill in while Savage rehabs, who is available that has some experience in our scheme. If you believe that O'Brien will just be looking for the best QB available instead of someone with experience in his scheme. Why are Hoyer and Mallett here? The fact remains Lewis --much to my surprise-- was signed last season instead of resigning Keenum. But Keenum was eventually called back up, and chosen to start over the guy who had no experience in the scheme.
 
Nitrofish said:
Are you dense. If, or when the Texans sign another QB, he will be a 3rd string player who will run the scout team. Should the unthinkable happen --like last season-- and he be called upon to take some snaps. It might be a good idea if he had some experience in our scheme. This is not to say he would need to be, or ever would be a HOF QB. But surely O'Brien would want someone who has at least a basic understanding of the scheme. So you can stop with all the straw man stuff...
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Lighten up.

You're taking all of this way too seriously.
 
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