infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nice response - absolutely nothing to do with what I said and instead a bunch of **** pulled out of your ass that I never said.
Every step of the way, every indication has been OB with his thumb on the scales.
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Save us Savage!!!!!!!
- Thread starter PockyAF
- Start date
Nice response - absolutely nothing to do with what I said and instead a bunch of **** pulled out of your ass that I never said.
Every step of the way, every indication has been OB with his thumb on the scales.
HAHA!!! I was speaking of the reuglar version.In this version of the game they want the gun to go off - I didn't realize you were such a Hoyer fan.
I read earlier - we all did - that Godsey makes the calls but O'Brien has veto power over any call. So who actually made the call is irrelevant. O'Brien let it pass. I say that to say this may have been one of O'Brien's sneaky little mind games to see if Mallett (a) had the intelligence toes recognize this wasn't the best option and (b) if he did, had the gumption to question authority and not just go through with a 'bad play'. Wasn't one of the criticisms of the last guy that there was no way to audible out of a bad play. Maybe O'Brien wanted to see if Mallett would do so.
Just throwing it out there as food for thought.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The bolded doesn't just apply to Mallet & Hoyer though, it applies to Savage as well and mostly the same folks who are screaming from the rooftops about this competition being rigged from the jump b/c OB supposedly had his mind made up about Hoyer or whatever are the same people who are completely dismissing Savage as a viable competitor in the competition and wonder why he got to play so much. Yeah yeah i know, OB said at the beginning that it was between Hoyer and Mallet but it's funny how you guys can take what OB is saying at face value about that, but then refuse to believe that BoB may have actually given Mallet a fair shot to win the starting job. It also should be noted too that most people who believe that the fix was in wanted to see Mallet win it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Savage isn't ready, sandlot time with the back end of the roster aside. Did OB ever even say Savage was in the competition?
Duh Capt. Obvious. Why would Hoyer fans be talking about it?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Most of us know that Savage isn't ready which why none of are really fretting over him not getting a shot at the starting spot...but he should've still been included in the competition as much as Hoyer and Mallet was & most Mallet fans dismissed him as even being in the battle b/c OB didn't name him. Ok that's fine but i think the reason he has played as much as he has so far is b/c OB was at least curious to see if the kid could rise to the occasion over both Hoyer and Mallet. But again why take what OB says at face value about whether or not Savage is in the competition, but then totally dismiss the idea that it was actually a fair and open competition between Mallet and Hoyer? It just comes off as sour grapes b/c Mallet didn't get the nod is all.
It's not like he hasn't been consistent about saying that Mallet was gonna get a chance to compete with whomever from day 1 when he resigned here and also that the decision would be about more than just the preseason games. Furthermore, I'm fairly sure that most coaches in the league would side with the more experienced guy over the guy with the unrealized potential unless the unrealized potential guy was a 1st round pick rookie...Exhibit A,B & C in that department is Vinny Testaverde, Jason Campbell and Matt Cassel. Other than that and a few other specialized situations, that's about as open a competition as it's gonna get in the NFL. Mallet failed to seize his opportunity and that should really be the end of it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why?
You are attempting a connection where there is none. Saying a person lies about one thing in their life is not an assertion they lie about every thing in their life. In this instance there is simply no connection saying just because OB had his thumb on the scale in any competition that he wouldn't accurately identify who is in the competition. And the comment on HK appeared to be unconscious to begin with. He wasn't talking to the press, he just used "both" in talking to the staff.
So the last defense is it's never an even up competition. Well there you go.
battleredready
Noob
Savage about to be up.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I love this foolishness that Savage should be getting consideration or the guy for the future that we need to groom all because we used a mid round pick on him.
You'd think that people would have learned from guys like Yates and Keenum or even Schaub to some degree. This is a QB's league, and you don't consistenly win with average QB's.
Do any of you actually, really, with a straight face believe that Savage would have a high ceiling to be a great QB one day? Think about that for a second? Meditate on that. Then come back to thinking logically, and answer that.
Savage would be a below average QB that we'd likely waste a year or two on just to realize that he's a typical QB that can't lead a team to a SB at any point, while a ton of the same Houston homers that clamored for Yates and Keenum would argue about every play of his that he'll improve from.
The Texans need to find a real blue chip QB and until they do they need to do everything possible to find him. Stop wasting time with below average guys that will just waste years of your franchise's history. Savage should never be anything more than a backup.
You'd think that people would have learned from guys like Yates and Keenum or even Schaub to some degree. This is a QB's league, and you don't consistenly win with average QB's.
Do any of you actually, really, with a straight face believe that Savage would have a high ceiling to be a great QB one day? Think about that for a second? Meditate on that. Then come back to thinking logically, and answer that.
Savage would be a below average QB that we'd likely waste a year or two on just to realize that he's a typical QB that can't lead a team to a SB at any point, while a ton of the same Houston homers that clamored for Yates and Keenum would argue about every play of his that he'll improve from.
The Texans need to find a real blue chip QB and until they do they need to do everything possible to find him. Stop wasting time with below average guys that will just waste years of your franchise's history. Savage should never be anything more than a backup.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I can't think of one Hoyer fan on this board. To me this all comes down to Mallett fans and O'Brien fans. O'Brien fans were fine with either QB because they trust O'Brien (maybe to a fault). Mallett fans wanted Mallett regardless of what happened in film, practice, "competition", etc.
I'm definitely in the O'Brien camp. I don't even like Hoyer but if O'Brien thinks he's better than Mallett then that's good enough for me.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Check out a few posts by 76Texan. Hoyer last year was as good as good Schaub.
There is some of what you say. It's all confused by the obvious thumb on the scales way in which the 'competition' was done. I'd like to think if the 'competition' hadn't been skewed and Hoyer had outplayed Mallett in practice and the preseason games that I and most others would have been on board.
But it was skewed and even then into a 'dead heat' and then they called the public stupid with their 'closed practice' crap so we'll never know.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Pretty sure most aren't wanting to groom him because he was a mid round pick but rather because of what he has shown in games and his progression from year one to two.
I personally love what I am seeing from him, and think he could be our future QB.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You also were saying the same thing about Keenum.
Do any of you ever notice how the Pats or the Packers can have all types of injuries from year to year and still be in contention? They can do that, because they have great QB's that can carry average players more times than not. This constant yearning to have faith in every bench warmer on our roster at QB has got to stop at some point. Savage could hit his best potential he'll ever have, and he'd still be a below average QB in the NFL. How exciting. We could look the same as we did with Sage Rosenfels most likely.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Keenum did come in last season, win 2 in a row and keep us in the playoff race, and he is a hometown under dog, of course I wanted him to get a shot.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Keenum separated Homers from realists
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Which says all anyone would need to know about your objectivity about viewing QB's, and exactly why you're seeing things you "want" to see in Savage. Hell, we could have Curly and Moe out there, and you'd have some sort of good feelings about what they could do.
Keenum didn't win those games due to great play. He led an offense that was extremely limited for him to complete a small variety of plays, and we ran the **** out of the ball. He didn't impress as a starter in those games, although he played more sound football under OB than he did with Kubiak. Interesting you failed to mention the 8 or so games he started under Kubes where he couldn't win a single game though.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I have no affiliation or emotional reasons to like Savage unlike my reasons for liking Keenum. I just like how Savage has played and I see possible potential. It's not like Brady beat out anyone to become the starter, he'll neither did Foster. Some times you get lucky and sometimes you dont, but we'll never know until we see him playing when it counts.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
It's not a choice between rose colored glasses and blinders. There is a middle ground that you are missing.
25lighters
Noob
To me, savage is the most fun to watch. Has an "it" factor the others dont have. Not saying hes ready to go, but man is he fun to watch.
There isn't anything different talent-wise between Savage and Bortles. But you, for some weird reason, just because Bortles went that high in the draft, think his ceiling is unlimited, and because Savage went in the 4th, his ceiling isn't?
That really makes a lot of sense.
I think it'd be much better if we all just **** in our diapers until the Texans draft a QB, any QB in the first round.
cland
Rookie
It's interesting that you're mentioning the Pats and the Packers. Because both teams groomed QBs to be their eventual starter, one from a late pick in the first that took 3 years of training and another from a 6th round pick that was groomed and started--but only because Bledsoe got hurt. I don't know that Savage can be that guy, but after his improvement from year 1 to 2 I'm not signing a check that says he absolutely CAN"T be that guy.
Look if we're going to be a mid-level team we're never going to get the blue chip QB that you're asking for short of tanking. We need to cross our fingers and hope we drafted a project worth while.
Would that middle ground be 7-9/9-7? We sure have seen a lot of that around here for the past decade or so.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Can we have a good Schaub? Or the non-elite Wilson type? Or the non-elite Flacco type?
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Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
What cland is saying about Rodgers and Brady is relevant to this scenario. If O'Brien has Savage in consideration for the role, it requires multi-year development, and the timeframe is justified. The Pats and Packers demonstrated the wisdom of that approach, so I'm reluctant to question it for our current needs.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think the wisdom is romanticized. Rogers was an expected top 5 pick who fell 20 spots to a team with a 36 year old QB. They said at the time it was a holy **** pick. He was their DeMeco Ryans - they never expected him to be there. Rogers' 'development time' wasn't a plan either for the beginning or the end, they just couldn't deal with Favre playing the hokey pokey.
Brady was a late round lottery ticket.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
True, they were elite talent anyway. But development increased their odds of success, and I don't think those examples should be invalidated by other posters simply because they are future HOF'ers.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
There isn't anything different talent-wise between Savage and Bortles. But you, for some weird reason, just because Bortles went that high in the draft, think his ceiling is unlimited, and because Savage went in the 4th, his ceiling isn't?
That really makes a lot of sense.
Actually I think a stronger argument could be made that "you" are saying this only because Savage is a Texan plain and simple. Otherwise, why aren't you clamoring for every other team's 3rd string trash that will likely never start? I used to ask you guys the same question when the laughable arguments were made about Yates being capable of being a great starter.
As far as Bortles goes well him and Savage were never even really close to being comparable potential wise. The only similarity I'd say is toughness. I'll give Savage that much. He'll stand there in the in pocket and take a lick before a throw. Bortles had a ton of come from behind victories in college which really impressed a lot of people, and he can scramble ten times better than Savage who is a statue speed wise. Bortles has been tearing it up in pre season as well against first stringers and everyone that has played or been around Bortles has added nothing but high praise of him as a leader. Shorts even predicted he'd be an all time great when asked about him recently. I don't hear anyone saying stuff like that about Savage who by the way can't even take the job from two career back ups that has an entire fan base worried. Your comparison just doesn't hold any weight unfortunately and Savage has yet to prove that any of it has any substance.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
100% correct. Unfortunately they missed the point entirely when these two were mentioned.
For the record, I'm anxious to see how Aj McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, & Aaron Murray's careers turn out. I think those were the best QBs of that class. After seeing Brett Hundley the other day & Logan Thomas last week, I've added them to my list. Bryce Petty & Ryan Nassib are also on that list.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Isn't that damn near everyone from that draft?
I left off Bridgewater, Bortles, JFF, Carr, Tajh Boyd, David Fales, Garrett Gilbert & Kieth Wenning. But I'm warming up to Bridgewater.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I apologize for the confusion, 7.5 on your list and 7.5 not on the list. I was confused. My bad.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
He's got it in his head that he doesn't like Savage and so if you do then you don't know what you're looking at and can't see how this one 4th round QB project is indicative of everything wrong with how the Texans do everything.
People see a guy go from lost to understanding what he's doing and then to experiencing a little preseason success and get excited about it. God forbid any aspect of this entertainment product we all spend so much time focusing on actually bring anyone any joy right? Thank God we have Texecutioner to save us from accidentally enjoying the play of a 3rd string QB in preseason. That was a close one!
I think he's bent because we didn't take JFF. He'll never admit it, but watch how & what he posts... it's JFF manlove.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
It seems like every passing draft one or two members of the board go cray over the fact that the Texans didn't take their guy, I've seen well respected members lose it over their favourite radio host getting cut or traded.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You are still beating down this AJ McCarron wagon aren't you?
Vance87
All Pro
I think you are right. He still telegraphs, but hopefully that disappears with time. He seems to really just love playing QB, like he's having the most fun out there of the three.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'm not upset over this. I'm a little amused by it.
I'll be upset if we start wasting years on a guy that won't ever be more than an average QB. I don't ever see us investing a lot of time in him as a starter though. I'm really not to worried about that right now.
Now if Hoyer and both Mallet start stinking up the joint completely through 8 games, then I could possibly change my mind and want to see him get a shot to see if he can ignite the offense. That would be a fair maneuver if these other two play like bums. I think by the end of the season we will probably realize that neither is the future unfortunately, and I hope that we continue to look for a franchise QB if it plays out that way.
Yes. Even though he isn't a Texans.
Out of curiosity, does average QB & "stinking up the joint" have the same meaning? I'd love to have an average QB... But I see a difference between average, mediocre, & stinking up the joint.
Yeah, without Arian & the run game he brings, we're going to need better than average to go anywhere, but if Arian were healthy, avg can get us quite a bit.
Now... If we refuse to move beyond average, like we did through the Schaub years, then I'd have a problem.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
RGIII might be available. Washington thought like Texecutioner and went all in on a QB. They don't seem too happy at the moment.
PapaL
Loose Screw
You mean like all the years we wasted with Keenum?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
With that statement, I'll never respect your idea of how a consistent winning football team should be in the "current NFL."
It got us nowhere last season. It likely gets you only semi far in any season like that. And then you're having to depend on the health of a guy at the RB position. IN this case a RB who likely has already been ran into the ground with all the miles he has on him already. That is a terrible strategy for any NFL team.
This statement changes what you said above somewhat. Did you originally mean that average for just this season?