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Save us Savage!!!!!!!

PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
One thing people forget is QBs from PA have a high success rate in the NFL. +1 Savage http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=d46e606d-86ec-453a-9cff-64df11173b44
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The good ones, even the great ones from PA, didn't have fragile bodies though. They played through injuries and were very durable and dependable. Tom Savage lacks that toughness to become anything special in the pros. He's a career third-stringer, maybe a backup on a bad team, at best. That leadership is impossible to display when you aren't on the field.
 
Mr teX said:
You could say the same for any 1st round rookie that would be brought in here. Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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It does if you think the average fan is represented on this message board. Impatient oafs!
 
Mr teX said:
You could say the same for any 1st round rookie that would be brought in here. Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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It does if you think the average fan is represented on this message board. Impatient oafs!
VTexan said:
We should have already seen what Savage could do this year and then decided if he's worth keeping or not. But instead our GM decided to save a few bucks, or something, and we are in this mess.

..Maybe it was on purpose, as a fail safe to give fans a glimmer of hope for next season in case **** hit the fan (spoiler alert, it did).


Disgusting.
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They thought there would be a winner and a backup out of the Hoyer/Mallett contest. Perhaps they should have been psychic and known they would have a second consecutive year of unusually bad luck keeping QBs healthy, but the numbers were against it happening once, much less back to back.

ps this combining of what I thought were separate responses is something new and definitely unintentional.
 
Mr teX said: "You could say the same for any 1st round rookie that would be brought in here. Yet fans would inexplicably have more faith in that kid than they would a guy in Savage who actually has thrown an NFL pass in this offense. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense."

It's about execution, toughness, being a winner. Qualities that Tom Savage simply hasn't shown at the pro level. Brian Hoyer has thrown many passes in this offense but that doesn't mean he's any good. Ryan Fitzpatrick threw many passes in this offense the year before too. And we parted ways with him rather quickly.

I really don't think it matters if we bring in a first-round rookie quarterback. He has a good chance to become better than any of the seven mediocre quarterbacks we have started during the past two seasons. And if he doesn't then we're still in the same position we are in now. A 9-7 team, back-to-back seasons, that doesn't have a franchise quarterback.

What doesn't make a whole lot of sense is keeping our current quarterbacks. None of them are any good. I hate to say it but I've seen very little out of all of them to keep them around for the long haul. If you want to give Tom Savage a third, fourth or fifth year, or however long his current rookie contract is, then so be it. I'm not expecting much out of him except more injuries.

Rick Smith has wasted numerous second, third and fourth-round picks over his career as the Texans GM. I'm expecting Tom Savage to become just another one of those disappointing players. Hopefully I'm wrong but I'm yet to see anything that leads me to believe otherwise.
 
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Mr teX said:
I see it, just don't understand it. Savage has 1st round tools and intangibles too...I see no reason why where a guy was drafted should drastically change how you look at their potential when they have the same physical tools & intangibles unless there's something drastically different in how those tools are put to use when they play (accuracy, pocket awareness etc..).
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A point which may be missed is less wear and tear from sitting out a year while continuing learning the system on IR. If he had bee rushed back, he might have reinjured the shoulder and lost a much needed off season in a push to start.
 
infantrycak said:
Umm, no he has 4th round tools and intangibles. Hence where he was drafted.
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I disagree. 1st round tools with all the baggage of switching schools and limited reps (body of work) caused the drop. Not the other way around.

This also explains why BOB wasn't in a rush to throw him to the wolves.
 
Marshall said:
A point which may be missed is less wear and tear from sitting out a year while continuing learning the system on IR. If he had bee rushed back, he might have reinjured the shoulder and lost a much needed off season in a push to start.
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That's a good point, but we still have to see results on the field to form any type of positive opinion. Tom Savage is entering his third NFL season in 2016 and I still have my doubts. Up to this point all I can say is he's been injury prone and that's not a good label for a young quarterback to have.

When people say he had the physical tools of a first-round quarterback coming out of Pittsburgh that doesn't really hold a lot of weight to me as an NFL quarterback. So far he's been disappointing to me as a fourth-round selection.

Bill O'Brien's offensive system is rather complex to learn. He's even said that himself. While I understand that I just don't know what's more important here? A guy who knows the system well or a guy who can execute those plays properly so that we can advance deeper in the playoffs?

If knowing the system is all that matters then we should just keep Brian Hoyer. Heck, we should have just kept Ryan Fitzpatrick. He was a Harvard graduate who learned that system rather quickly. He was the smartest quarterback in Houston Texans history.

Execution, toughness and being a winner. Those are the only three traits I care about for a quarterback. Somebody who's going to be reliable and actually on the field even if he's playing through injuries.

I'd rather "dumb down" the playbook with a quarterback who executes those vanilla plays very well, as oppose to running a complex offensive system with a quarterback who understands it extremely well but just doesn't execute those plays worth a damn. Which is why I'd rather have seen Brandon Weeden starting that playoff game against the Chiefs last weekend instead of Brian Hoyer. At the very least, making the switch at halftime when we were down 13-0 which we never did either.

Bill O'Brien may think he's a quarterbacks guru but he gets an F grade in common sense. Now maybe his way of thinking may work well in college football. It's not going to win an NFL playoff game unfortunately. Hopefully he's learning though.

After that 30-0 smackdown at our house there is nowhere to go but up for the Houston Texans, most notably, at the quarterback position. O'Brien seems like a smart man so I'm sure, more like hopeful I should say, that he'll help lead the right changes at the quarterback position this off-season.
 
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Draft grade on Savage
Savage Pitt Highlights

In his highlight reel, I really like his mobility and that he didn't assume the fetal position under pressure. That reminded me of Big Ben, Flacco and Wilson (minus the scrambling ability with Wilson). He kept his eyes downfield and had good situational awareness.
On the bad side, he seemed to lock onto receivers and I'm not sure of his anticipation from the video. After two full seasons in the NFL, I'd really like to see where he is on all of these issues.
Opinions?
 
DocBar said:
Draft grade on Savage
Savage Pitt Highlights

In his highlight reel, I really like his mobility and that he didn't assume the fetal position under pressure. That reminded me of Big Ben, Flacco and Wilson (minus the scrambling ability with Wilson). He kept his eyes downfield and had good situational awareness.
On the bad side, he seemed to lock onto receivers and I'm not sure of his anticipation from the video. After two full seasons in the NFL, I'd really like to see where he is on all of these issues.
Opinions?
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I just watched that video, but I watched some others earlier. Unless I'm drunk, most of Toms passes appear to be on the money, like really on point. Most were thrown so only the WR could get the ball
 
This video is pretty awesome. I'm damn near sold on Savage, considering he has two full years in the same system. In foresight, it would almost be a shame if the Texans drafted a QB early in 2016.
Does anyone have some highlights of their favorite 2016 QB they'd like to share? I'd like to see a comparison. One in the hand, two in the bush kind of thinking.
 
DocBar said:
I know. Show me 2016 QB prospect videos that are better. Goff, Black, Wentz? Show me the highlights. Then discuss why you like them over Savage.
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http://draftbreakdown.com/ - There's the prospect videos. You can find all their positives and all their negatives. Don't know Black though.

As for Savage, I don't hate him. I'm fine with him coming in and competing with a vet and an early round pick to start the season. To compare Goff or Wentz to Savage, he's behind them (at least as far as coming out of school, no idea right now as he hasn't taken many meaningful snaps) in terms of accuracy, pocket awareness, finding and anticipating tighter windows, and well behind Wentz in overall athleticism. Savage has a big arm, will hang in the pocket, continues to grind, but the negatives are there when you watch him in actual games. Maybe those negatives have been improved on, like I said I'd be interested to give him a fair shot to prove so. But I wouldn't feel comfortable whatsoever going into the season just assuming so and counting on him to up and be the guy. If you would, ok fair enough, but I don't get coming to that conclusion on some old highlight videos.
 
Any QB we draft will likely sit on the bench for a year or two and we'll then be in the same position as we are now with Savage. It seems reasonable to me that we compare the draft grade and tangibles of Savage with those prospects coming out this year; and seems unreasonable to draft anyone whose grade is not clearly superior to Savage's.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Savage has a big arm, will hang in the pocket, continues to grind, but the negatives are there when you watch him in actual games. Maybe those negatives have been improved on, like I said I'd be interested to give him a fair shot to prove so. But I wouldn't feel comfortable whatsoever going into the season just assuming so and counting on him to up and be the guy. If you would, ok fair enough, but I don't get coming to that conclusion on some old highlight videos.
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If the Texans felt mildly confident there was a chance Savage could be a "decent starter," I doubt McNair would have made his comment about looking for a franchise guy.

Unless, he's just spreading misinformation so other teams would jump ahead of us taking QBs, dropping other players in the draft....
 
Number19 said:
Any QB we draft will likely sit on the bench for a year or two and we'll then be in the same position as we are now with Savage. It seems reasonable to me that we compare the draft grade and tangibles of Savage with those prospects coming out this year; and seems unreasonable to draft anyone whose grade is not clearly superior to Savage's.
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When you start with a clearly invalid assettion, it negates your whole argument.

Will likely sit a year or two is ludicrous.
 
thunderkyss said:
If the Texans felt mildly confident there was a chance Savage could be a "decent starter," I doubt McNair would have made his comment about looking for a franchise guy.

Unless, he's just spreading misinformation so other teams would jump ahead of us taking QBs, dropping other players in the draft....
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If that's the best they felt about Savage I'd think that all the more reason they should be on the lookout for a franchise guy.
 
thunderkyss said:
If the Texans felt mildly confident there was a chance Savage could be a "decent starter," I doubt McNair would have made his comment about looking for a franchise guy.

Unless, he's just spreading misinformation so other teams would jump ahead of us taking QBs, dropping other players in the draft....
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That's the way I see it . Savage hasn't had anything more than a speed bump impeding his rise to starter .
 
Mollywhopper said:
http://draftbreakdown.com/ - There's the prospect videos. You can find all their positives and all their negatives. Don't know Black though.

As for Savage, I don't hate him. I'm fine with him coming in and competing with a vet and an early round pick to start the season. To compare Goff or Wentz to Savage, he's behind them (at least as far as coming out of school, no idea right now as he hasn't taken many meaningful snaps) in terms of accuracy, pocket awareness, finding and anticipating tighter windows, and well behind Wentz in overall athleticism. Savage has a big arm, will hang in the pocket, continues to grind, but the negatives are there when you watch him in actual games. Maybe those negatives have been improved on, like I said I'd be interested to give him a fair shot to prove so. But I wouldn't feel comfortable whatsoever going into the season just assuming so and counting on him to up and be the guy. If you would, ok fair enough, but I don't get coming to that conclusion on some old highlight videos.
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You're trying to compare undrafted QB's to a QB that has two full seasons in an offense. Savage would most likely beat out both. Time and experience. I doubt that the talent level is significant. Show your fav 2016 QB's highlight film for comparison.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
That's the way I see it . Savage hasn't had anything more than a speed bump impeding his rise to starter .
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Barring his injury, I'm confident we would have seen him this season. I think that might be why he was placed on IR. They didn't trust themselves to not bring him back too soon after injury.
 
DocBar said:
What were you trying to prove here?
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What? You asked about prospect videos, I'm not going to show them to you clip for clip. So there they are.

You asked about what some guys offered more than Savage. I answered.

What are you trying to prove by acting flippant?
 
thunderkyss said:
If the Texans felt mildly confident there was a chance Savage could be a "decent starter," I doubt McNair would have made his comment about looking for a franchise guy.

Unless, he's just spreading misinformation so other teams would jump ahead of us taking QBs, dropping other players in the draft....
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I think McNair is just being an owner and answering the fans questions. I don't see McNair as that "hands on" like some do.
 
infantrycak said:
When you start with a clearly invalid assettion, it negates your whole argument.

Will likely sit a year or two is ludicrous.
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I'm not the only one who thinks most rookie QB's should not be starting. Now if the question is whether OB would start a rookie, that's a valid question worthy of discussion. But the idea of sitting a rookie QB is certainly not ludicrous.
 
Mollywhopper said:
What? You asked about prospect videos, I'm not going to show them to you clip for clip. So there they are.

You asked about what some guys offered more than Savage. I answered.

What are you trying to prove by acting flippant?
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Your link took me to 2016 Senior Qbs's with no video.
 
steelbtexan said:
LOL, you can expect a new QB next yr, the boss has spoken.
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I expect a new QB next year because we only have Hoyer and Savage under contract. Hoyer may be gone if he understands the risk of returning both from the concussions and the implosion. For his own good, I strongly recommend retirement. Coaching QBs might be his next vocation.

I also expect to sign a FA QB and prefer either Weedon or Yates since I don't think Cousins or Osweiler will make it to the FA market. I have mixed feelings on a one or two year prove it contract for Manning if there is no confidence in Savage or a draft pick.
 
thunderkyss said:
If the Texans felt mildly confident there was a chance Savage could be a "decent starter," I doubt McNair would have made his comment about looking for a franchise guy.

Unless, he's just spreading misinformation so other teams would jump ahead of us taking QBs, dropping other players in the draft....
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I look back at statements that McNair has made in the past and have got to wonder where his filters are and where his advisors were before he made those comments. I have come to pretty much ignore any public statements McNair makes, seeing that they have always been created to affect PR illusions/delusions concerning the direction this team is really headed............because no matter how obvious it is to everyone that things are screwed up beyond belief....................we're always "headed in the right direction!":spy:
 
I think Texans will go with Savage and either Weeden or Yates and pick up a vet FA. Unless "that guy" is there, there will be another first round pick like 2015 Kevin Johnson that no one can scream about but doesn't resolve QB. A selection of a OT, WR, RB or even NT wouldn't be shocking.
 
badboy said:
I want Texans to go with Savage and either Weeden or Yates and pick up a vet FA. Unless "that guy" is there, there will be another first round pick like 2015 Kevin Johnson that no one can scream about but doesn't resolve QB. A selection of a OT, WR, RB or even NT wouldn't be shocking.
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Fify
 
infantrycak said:
Fify
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Actually, I think Weeden will be kept at least through part of preseason but he is not my guy. A neighbor & I were talking about him recently and Don thinks he is Texans future; I disagree. I do like Savage and he remains as being cheap and two seasons under his belt with system. As I am not enthralled with any draft QBs + thinking Goff and Lynch will be gone, I want Texans to select Coker in mid-rounds.
 
Marshall said:
Hoyer may be gone if he understands the risk of returning both from the concussions and the implosion. For his own good, I strongly recommend retirement.
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Well, if the decision as to whether or not Hoyer stays a Texan is left for Hoyer to decide, then McNair, Smith, and O'Brien are fuggin NuTz.
 
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ROO said:
Well, if the decision as to whether or not Hoyer stays a Texan is left for Hoyer to decide, then McNair, Smith, and O'Brien are fuggin NuTz.
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I suspect they would at least give him the opportunity to bow out gracefully. Only then make the tough call (those with compassion find even necessary cuts tough). But I don't think there's any financial reason to drag it out for Hoyer as there often is.
 
Marshall said:
I suspect they would at least give him the opportunity to bow out gracefully. Only then make the tough call (those with compassion find even necessary cuts tough). But I don't think there's any financial reason to drag it out for Hoyer as there often is.
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0 cap hit with Hoyer pre or post June 1. I would do the "compassionate" thing and cut him quickly so that he can catch on with another team.
There could be a team out there waiting for him....:spit:
 
DocBar said:
0 cap hit with Hoyer pre or post June 1. I would do the "compassionate" thing and cut him quickly so that he can catch on with another team.
There could be a team out there waiting for him....:spit:
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I HONESTLY HOPE NOT. He needs to think about his future and the damage the next concussion would cause.
 
DocBar said:
0 cap hit with Hoyer pre or post June 1. I would do the "compassionate" thing and cut him quickly so that he can catch on with another team.
There could be a team out there waiting for him....:spit:
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I hear the Browns are looking for a QB. I think that Hoyer would be an upgrade for them. Plus, I believe Hoyer is from Cleveland. A match made in heaven.
 
I read some call Savage "injury prone"? His knee injury occurred mid Dec 2014 when the tackler went right for his knee.......a direct hit.......and it was a sprain where he couldn't return by the short amount of time left before the season was over for us........but it did not require surgery. In preseason last year, he sustained a shoulder separation when he was drilled to the ground on his throwing shoulder.........again no surgery required. (This is not like a shoulder dislocation with high risk of re-injury and ultimately surgery.) These are both injuries that should allow full recovery, and not hinder his future performance, nor his career.
 
I received this request in the form of an MB profile message from DocBar:
Can you post something about your professional opinion on Tom Savage's injuries and what we should be concerned about?
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*************

I believe I have addressed the shoulder separation in the http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2575039/ post above.

As far as the knee......after the game (near the end of the season), he was wearing a brace. It was most likely an MCL sprain (like Muhammed's) which would have likely carried with it several weeks of rehab before even being able to return to practice. Logistics of time left in the season dictated IR.

Both of his injuries should allow him to return to full strength and preinjury level of performance. Although no one can predict the future, neither of his injuries should make recurrent problems a significant worry.
 
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I've watched every single play that Tom Savage has ever played for the Texans, and OB would be a complete fool to not consider him.
With two full years to learn the system, why draft a QB, in the 1st round, and expect him to start? Tom Savage will be the Texans starting QB. He has everything we are looking for.
 
DocBar said:
I've watched every single play that Tom Savage has ever played for the Texans, and OB would be a complete fool to not consider him.
With two full years to learn the system, why draft a QB, in the 1st round, and expect him to start? Tom Savage will be the Texans starting QB. He has everything we are looking for.
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Be interesting to find out if OB's opinion matches yours... kinda telling with the talk about they must find a QB coming out of the FO
 
JB said:
Be interesting to find out if OB's opinion matches yours... kinda telling with the talk about they must find a QB coming out of the FO
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IMO, that has to do with draft position and the perception that comes with it. FA and day one draft decision will tell the tale. If the Texans stay at 22, Savage is the starter.
 
DocBar said:
IMO, that has to do with draft position and the perception that comes with it. FA and day one draft decision will tell the tale. If the Texans stay at 22, Savage is the starter.
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I agree inasmuch they don't see someone special. I think Savage can be a solid starter. A Dalton, or regular season Flacco. But I don't think he is special... of course you never know, until you know right?

So if they don't see anyone special, I don't mind going with another late round pick, starting Savage.

At the same time, I can understand if they think one of these guys is special & of they can get one, they should try. I'd hate to think we passed on the next Roethlisberger because we had Dalton.
 
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