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Save us Savage!!!!!!!
- Thread starter PockyAF
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
False dichotomy. We won't know either way unless more is said.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If we end up with a decent OL and a half-way decent RB, it would be fine with me to have Savage start the season and have Hackenberg behind him instead of the vet. Let Savage take 1st team reps and let Hack take 2nd team reps. If Savage doesn't look good in regular season after a while, put Hackenberg in.............already having had good early experience in OB's system (yes, back in college), with the benefit of additional exposure throughout a full offseason/preseason, I'd let Hackenberg try out his new wings.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I've watched every single play too. All 54 of them.
ROO
Tweak the offense already!
What did you see?
Mangler
Toro de España
Do you really expect the guy that benched Hoyer in the very first season game, then proceeded to start Mallet, then starts Hoyer again because Mallet sucked and was a brat, then tells the team he made a mistake benching Hoyer for Mallet, naming Hoyer the starter, AGAIN, then failing to bench Hoyer during the Wildcard after throwing interception after interception know how to spot a guy who is actually deserving to be the starter at QB? It's obvious he's clueless about what he's looking for in a QB!
Mangler
Toro de España
Do you really expect the guy that benched Hoyer in the very first season game, then proceeded to start Mallet, then starts Hoyer again because Mallet sucked and was a brat, then tells the team he made a mistake benching Hoyer for Mallet, naming Hoyer the starter, AGAIN, then failing to bench Hoyer during the Wildcard after throwing interception after interception know how to spot a guy who is actually deserving to be the starter at QB? It's obvious he's clueless about what he's looking for in a QB!
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Certainly not enough to declare him being any more than what he is, which is a 4th round long shot. Maybe he's the next Rodgers or whoever, but he could be the next Brian Hoyer too. Now, I'd take him in week 1 over what's on the team now in a heartbeat, but 54 snaps isn't going to reveal anything about what he can do at this level, and it's certainly not enough to declare someone a fool for not going with him and not even addressing the position in the draft.
Everyone but Foster went right.
I kid. I like Tom. I think there may be something there. But I'd draft two QBs in this draft before I go all in on Savage.
Still, I can see where they're coming from. It's more about "fixing" the OL & other spots without the quotation marks.
When you include the 2015 preseason snaps, it gives a much better picture. Savage shows that he has a much better grasp of the offense and spending 2015 studying his butt off will only help.
He has all of the physical tools and he's had time to study on the mental side of things. I'll go all in on that before I do a rookie, especially if that rookie is Hackensack.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I don't think he's clueless, just looking at an empty shelf.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Not really. Any statement anyone of us makes can only be based on what has already been made public.
McNair has made clear in numerous recent statements that he wants the QB situation addressed and he favors drafting a QB in the first round. If we don't draft a QB in the first, this will strongly indicate that OB has made a strong argument as to why the Texans should do otherwise and McNair is deferring to OB's decision.
I don't know that that is a true statement. He said we should be able to get one of the top 5 guys. The last two of which are being mocked in the second round.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
That's what I was going to say.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
There is a fine line between clear and intentional fog and it has everything to do with sincerity. Being suspicious by nature, I take his comments with all the truth of a marketing concern. There are advanced degrees in EAR TICKLING.
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching (tickling) ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (2 Tim. 4:3-4)
Number19
Hall of Fame
I agree; but I disagree that we risk one of these five falling to us in the second. Or even falling into the second and risking the possibility we may not be able to trade up in the second. I've interpreted the remarks made in the media that if we want one of the top five, we'll have to use our 22nd pick, or move up in the first. The sense I get is one of urgency to get this done.
So this is behind my reasoning that if we don't select a QB in the first, OB has made a convincing case not to do so.
I think the new CBA is hurting teams and players with the limited ability for a coaching staff to work with players, especially QB's.
They don't have enough time to make a good decision on where a player like Savage, Yates or Weeden is as far as improving in the offseason.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Just to stir the pot a little for you folks. When asked today want he wants out of his qb OB went on to say he wants a great communicator, someone who is bright, hard working and earns the respect of his teammates.
Later when asked about tom savage he started off by saying he is good with communication, then called him smart, said he was a hard worker and noted he was currently working out in Arizona with some teammates, and finally said all his hard work has earned the respect of the guys in the locker room.
That's 4 for 4 to me...
Later when asked about tom savage he started off by saying he is good with communication, then called him smart, said he was a hard worker and noted he was currently working out in Arizona with some teammates, and finally said all his hard work has earned the respect of the guys in the locker room.
That's 4 for 4 to me...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Savage may start game 1. He will not be the plan for the future. Now if we hit the lottery he will play out of his mind and stave off the rookie. Could happen. Maybe tomorrow I'll get a wild hair, buy my 1st lottery ticket and win big. Could happen. Wouldn't plan on it.
And frankly it is kind of funny watching the back half of seasons with Houston fans lamenting not having a QB, what could have been, etc. immediately followed by an offseason of rationalizing not getting a QB.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Don't mistake what I posted as me not wanting to draft a qb. I still want one in round 1 or 2, but I am a fan of Savage I like his skill sets and I like to hear him working hard. I want to see him do well, and wI'll root for him to be the answer however I do want a high round pick in case he falls on his face
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I do not question the desire for a great QB. But I definitely question whether we can get one or even know what one looks like.
You have no more idea if Savage is the future QB of this franchise than anyone else on here. Maybe you'll get a wild hair and realize your opinion doesn't equate fact, as the language you use makes that appear to be the case.
Frankly, it's kind of funny watching a bunch of fans lament wasting another year of Watt's career then preferring "do what ever it takes to get X QB in the draft" then having to let him develop when you have a kid with a very good skillset, who fell in the draft due to transferring twice, is entering his 3rd year in the same system and has shown what I consider to be good improvement. I'd say Savage has better odds of being successful in the long term than X QB in the draft. That X QB represents banking on a lottery ticket than Savage does.
PapaL
Loose Screw
If you ask him about Hoyer I'm sure he'll say the same thing too. Coaches are full of s*it too.
I agree to a point.
I do not believe the QBs that go early in the draft are the most talented, most ready, most likely to succeed, & by no means "the best." There is no "best" it all depends on what a coach/GM wants & their ability to acquire & cultivate.
In the past, I think the guys taken at the top of the draft had better chances of success. They were generally 3 year starters, from prolific (I don't think that's the word I'm looking for, but...) football programs, playing the best of the best and winning. They had the physical gifts needed to do the job at the NFL level, size, arm strength, iron jaw, calmness under pressure, & they had the intangibles of leadership, competitiveness, good decision makers, etc... nowadays, those guys are available late in the draft..... Aj McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, & Johnny Manziel goes in the first... but the NFL is changing, so who knows?
Still. I wouldn't put all my eggs in the Tom Savage basket & Bill O'Brien has two years left on his contract. Rick Smith's deal runs out at the end of 2016. They've fubared the QB decisions so far, they better have a better plan than what they've come up with so far. If Tom Savage isn't the guy... plan B better work.
So I don't care who they pick. As long as they get a guy they can both get behind & do everything they can to make him successful. There's a lot of talent in this QB class... Wentz, Goff, Lynch, I get it. But Cook, Brissett, Driskel, Prescott (kids a winner)... lot of good stuff to work with.
I think we are much more in agreement than not.
I'm pretty high on Savage because he has all of the physical tools that you look for and is entering his 3rd year in the system. IMO, that gives the Texans the best shot at winning in 2016 and, hopefully, beyond.
I have no problem with the Texans drafting a QB, as long as it's at the right value. I would expect the coaching staff to do everything they can to make every player successful, not just a shiny new rookie. I also hope that OB will start the best player, regardless of draft status.
In an ideal situation, the Texans would have a QB depth like Cinci has with Savage playing north of Dalton's level of play.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Link
Not exactly effusive praise.
Try reading a little closer. I didn't say he wasn't the future at QB. I said he wasn't going to be the plan for the future. That's Cpt. Obvious territory at this point as much as you don't like it.
Savage fell in the draft for more than transferring schools. He fell because he didn't look like a top tier QB prospect. We've been over this here.
He's also had time to develop into one. I like him, you don't so much. Are you at least willing to give him an honest shot at the starting job?
PapaL
Loose Screw
And Johnny 8-Ball LOOKED like a top prospect? All depends on who is looking...
Walter Football's draft analysis of Tom Savage
"As a pocket passer, Savage has the physical skill set to be a starting quarterback in the NFL if he develops well. For Savage to pan out, it is critical that he lands with a good, stable coaching staff that is allowed the time to develop him. Savage is on the radar of the quarterback-needy teams that are considering waiting to draft a quarterback until after the first round. Some are looking at him as a potential diamond in the rough as a second-day pick."
IMO, he's had the time to develop. I want to see if he has.
Sure he's had time, doesn't mean he's developed into a whole lot. Given what we currently have and a willingness to see what he's got, sure I'd give him an honest shot. But I'd damn sure not rest my hopes on him. I was just talking about you pumping him up as some big deal that was only hurt for non-on the field stuff. That's just not true.
No he didn't. One dum dum owner fell in love with him. Really big difference.
Give me a break one weakly written scouting report that's nice to the guy. Where are the reports that list in spades his negatives? Did cut and paste just reject those?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
While some of us looked at JFF and saw nothing that looked like a top prospect that would translate into an NFL starter.
Now you're just hating on the guy. Did you even click on the link?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why am I just hating on the guy when I'm being honest about his negatives to contrast you acting like he was a stud minus his transferring foibles?
And yes I've read all his reports, the positive and the negative.
You're hating because all you've done is immediately dismiss Savage, without even bothering to give him a chance.
You ignore the positives, focus on the negatives, dismiss the notion that, after two full seasons in the same system, that Savage just might be a quality starter in the NFL.
You seem to be more interested in seeing the team mortgage the future just so they can say they tried to find a so called " top tier" QB who, at best, has a 50-50 shot at being an average NFL QB.
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- I haven't just dismissed him. I said I'd give him an honest shot. Did you not read that?
- I haven't ignored his positives (which is why I'd rather have him back in camp vs Weeden or Yates), I'm just not willing to gloss over his laundry list of negatives like you quite obviously are just to give myself better feels about him maybe breaking the odds and becoming a better than serviceable QB.
- And yes, I am more interested in the team taking a big swing on bringing in a QB who anyone can watch and see has far more attributes than Savage could have dreamed of coming out of school. Frankly I can't imagine how that's a bad thing, unless you like running in mediocre circles.
I guess I missed where you said you'd give him a shot. Apologies.
It looks like where we disagree is on whether or not trade up and get a QB?
Here's why I'm against it. Plain and simple. Does that still look like a good plan of attack? The only true upside I get from that articles is it costs GM's their jobs.
Good grief man, look at the names on that list, and I'm not talking about what became of them in the league but what they should have been viewed as coming out. Those QB's should have never been targeted. That's a Cleveland type of problem. This isn't an argument in a vacuum about trading up just for trading up sake. What I'm discussing very specifically is trading up for one of the two prospects in this specific draft that show more attributes, more tape, and more intangibles thus far than the lot of that list coming out of school, and more than one Thomas Benjamin Savage.
We're never going to see eye to eye on this.
What has eitherRick Smith or OB shown that makes you think that either are capable of picking the right one? Lots of very smart people, who do this for a living, fall flat on their faces.
I'll just agree to disagree and carry on.
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- What makes you think Smith/OB had a clue when they picked Savage?
- Lots of very smart people, who do this for a living, nail it.
- I agree.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not really relying on Smith or OB. Goff and Wentz are pretty much universally regarded as excellent franchise level prospects.
After that you have a point especially if OB goes all lazy familiar again and drafts Hack.
Universally regarded prospects go bust more often than they turn into top tier talents.
And at what cost do you take that gamble?
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powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
EVERYBODY goes bust more often!
That's such a defeatist position to even begin a draft discussion from. What's the idea then, just throw darts and coach 'em up?
Guys do get identified, guys do pan out, and teams win by making solid draft choices. It's not just blind luck.
Guys do get identified, guys do pan out, and teams win by making solid draft choices. It's not just blind luck.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Is there no statistic revealing higher picks bust less?