The Third Man
Rookie
James F-ing Harden is on the team. Did you think they were going to get him with Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry and a draft pick? Jesus.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Rick Smith looks smarter every day
- Thread starter dalemurphy
- Start date
James F-ing Harden is on the team. Did you think they were going to get him with Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry and a draft pick? Jesus.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Finally we agree on something.
If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Finally we agree on something.
If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
Oh , you mean by trading for and signing guys to play with a guy who missed an entire season? Or what about trading the 8th pick in the draft for glue? C'mon, morey hasnt done anything either. He's on the path because he got Harden, but he also gave a dude 8m who he cut in preseason and is average at best.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
This is the best you can do??? Lol!
You totally just made my point for me as usual Dale.
Rick Smith looked like a clown for what he let go of Demeco for. He could have gotten better assets then that.
And spare me with this moving up or down a few spots in 3rd rounds of drafts when you have no clue would have been there or wouldn't have been there. That isn't saying anything at all.
And you had the nerve to bring up last off season as if Rick Smith did well? Lol! Did you not see how bad our WR's were this season. I went on and on about it all off season and called Rick Smith still an amateur for what happened to the cap that fast which handcuffed him from being able to get help at WR's. We relied on unproven rookies to do the job. Shrewd GM there. Lol! I don't want to hear jack about last off season, because I warned many on this board that the WR's would struggle badly and they did and it hurt the team a lot.
If there is any props I'll give to Smith is that he has been able to draft well in the first round the last few years, but a lot of that goes to Kubiak and Wade who essentially tell these guys the players that they want. Smith has a say so for sure, but Kubiak has always been very involved in draft picks and Wade pretty much got his way the last two seasons.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
In the NBA your team aint **** unless you have a top of the line superstar franchise player. The Rockets can't and haven't been able to get that, but it hasn't been from a lack of trying. Franchise players don't go to teams who don't already have one or at least two in most cases now days, and Morey's been screwed on that note ever since Tmac and Yao fizzled out. You either have a franchise player or you don't in the NBA. If you don't your team will never be a contender. I've said that for years to folks in here and haven't been proven wrong yet. But for everything else Morey has been able to strike all sorts of deals where he got over on other teams. I'm pretty surprised that teams even still trade with him at this point.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He traded the #8 pick for a role player. He continued to build around Yao even though he was done when he hit the floor in la. He should started right then and not ever traded for martin and let scola go, suck for a year or 2 get a high draft pick. Instead, we kept going .500 with a limited upside team. I'm also assuming you forgot about the vetoed trade that wouldve sent CPto La and they wouldve still been able to get Howard. C'mon, smith has done just as good, if not a better job than morey.
BullBlitz
Section 331
Exactly. The minimal success that they've had has been in spite of Smith, not because of him.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You talk as if draft picks mean a thing in the NBA now days. I mean what is a draft pick in the last 6 years or so??
You honestly believe that it was Morey who held onto Yao?? Come on now. Morey had his hands tied to Yao more like it. Les Alexander was never going to part ways with Yao Ming. Les would have let Morey go before he would have allowed any GM to deal Yao while he was still non retired with the ability to rehab and attempt to still play.
Well I agree with you that it would have been better off probably to do it that way, but that isn't realistic at all to think that any GM would do that when they were good enough to go at least slightly over 500 and fight for a playoff spot. No GM would want to put their job on the line by tanking for certain draft picks. I would have liked for that to have been the outcome, but I never once thought that Morey would do something like that, nor would I expect him to risk his job like that.
I hated that trade. Yeah, Gasol is so bad ass this year isn't he? Gasol is a nice player that I've always appreciated, but he was hardly a real piece for us, and why on earth would you even mention Howard at this point?? I hated the idea of Howard last off season, and boy do I hate it even more now after seeing his stint in LA. I'd never trust that guy after seeing how he acted in Orlando. Morey is waiting patiently to find that right superstar or the closest thing to it, and he'll pull trigger. It's a matter of being able to get other superstars to join the Rockets team. With the Beard here, I think they have a much better chance going forward.
The NBA is a much bigger crap shoot all around now days though. Realistically there are really only 3 teams that even have a chance now days and about 3 other decent contenders. The rest of the NBA are all a bunch of random teams that have no shot.
tru80texan
Waterboy
Hard to argue w/ that. Smith's best work was when his job was on the line & he was forced to acquire some real talent in FA, Manning & Joesph, to save it as opposed to the poor talent he was accustomed to aquiring such Jacque Reeves. He then followed it up w/ a good defensive draft that he & Kubiak gave Wade credit for w/ his preparation & assistance in selecting players. Smith has not been impressive to me either & this offseason hasnt helped his case thus far. It's still early, but I've got my doubts.
TexanSam
Hall of Fame
Finally we agree on something.
If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
Cap hell? Exaggeration much? The Texans have cap issues, but not being able to re-sign the guys that have moved on to other teams hardly constitutes cap hell. Ignore free agency? So you're just going to discount Rick Smith's role in signing Jonathon Joseph and Danieal Manning? Seems like the Texans were active then. You're blowing things way out of proportion.
And you're comparing apples and oranges between NBA GMs and NFL GMs. Trades are rare in the NFL. They happen, but there are very few instances when star players are moved. It's usually role players and/or draft picks.
Overall I'd say he's been ok as a GM. We've never been super aggressive in free agency, but he's had some good drafts. He's had some duds mixed in with some diamonds in the draft and free agency. Just in the past couple of years you've seen how eager teams have been to acquire talent off of our team so he's done a decent job of evaluating if you just base it purely on that.
There's probably a happy medium in between the Smith haters and lovers on how good a job he has done, but you can just look around the league every year. No team's fanbase is going to be completely happy with the moves they make.
rolyat93
Waterboy
Watch more basketball, Morey is a lock for GM of the year this season.
Not doing the NBA thingy
But you've got to admit Morey has done more with less and had more difficult perameters to work under with Les being the owner. Morey is a far more intelligent GM that's willing to take risks Rick would never take.
Meanwhile teams like the Seahawks are doing laps around teams like the Texans when it comes to the draft/FA/trades.
The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.
Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?
How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?
What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.
Sidney Rice, Tavaris Jackson, talk Golden Tate could be on his way out. Traded for and paid big money for a backup QB....... every front office is prone to making mistakes.
I will give them that they had the hands down best draft in the league last year, and they should be commended for it but I'm not gonna act like they've been perfect. There's a very good chance the Percy Harvin trade could blow up in their faces.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I didn't discount anything. Do you not realize that all you can bring up is one off season where Rick was highly competitive in improving this team? That is a horrible ratio for a guy that is in like his 7th off season. And that also happened to be the year we brought in Wade Phillips who needed to transform an entire defense. You have one active off season to credit the guy on. Sorry, but I don't see how you could be happy with those types of results. If I am highly impressed with what Morey has been able to do under his circumstances, that ought to tell you that I don't expect every move to be a great deal that worked or expect a SB to like the GM. Morey is constantly aggressive in his persuit to better the Houston Rockets though. Rick Smith has never been that guy other then one off season by your own admission, so I don't see why you wouldn't want to see more consistency in that approach.
I don't know Tex, I think every year with Rick Smith has been at least solid.
The proof is in the players that other teams want when they left the Texans.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I said before that in hind sight I can look back at a few of his drafts and say that he's made several solid picks, but mainly in the first round. The only thing is that how much of that do I credit to Kubiak or Wade as well?
But as far as free agency or trades go, there is hardly an argument to be made that he's done much of a thing. He had that one off season which I'll credit him for with Manning and Joseph, but that's it. He got Antonio Smith who has been pretty good, but that off season wasn't some great one that year based on that alone.
PRetty much the high majority of any success that Rick can hang his hat on is the draft, which mainly has to do with his philosophy of building only through the draft which is my point from the start. His philosophy in general is what I have a big problem with.
tru80texan
Waterboy
That is true & how long did it take Pete Carroll to accomplish what took the kubiak & Smith combo to do since 2007?? Kinda sad if you think about it w/ that comparison.
Trades are rare in the league and rarely workout though Tex. Even though they had so many picks it didn't matter look at the Patriots last few. In the Rick Smith era we've really only had the one offseason where we could spend aggressively. I'm not saying he's done a bang up job, but just not as bad as some others make it sound.
Soli would be correct,
Meanwhile the Hawks took risks.
Signing Lynch, who Texan fans wantednothing to do with.
Drafting Wilson in the 3rd even though they had just signed Flynn in FA, Sherman in the 5th,Browner as a CFL FA, Sweazy as a DT and moving him to OG, then starting him as a rookie, drafting Irvin at 13 when most had him as a 2-3 rd pick, picking up Baldwin as a UNDFA.
Trading for Clemons/Zach Miller/Giacomini/Harvin
Signing Avril/Rice in FA
Tell me what Rick/Gary have done/taken risks?
If they can sign Woodson or Reed and add a vet WR that can play they've had a good offseason. But dont compare them to the Seahawks even if they miss on a couple of guys. Atleast they're doing everthing they can to try to win a SB.
BTW, RB Robert Turbin is a stud that few have heard of, but yeah they missed on Curry. Rick has missed on many more. The word smarter and Rick Smith should never be mentioned in the same sentence. (Right She Texan, Gma)
Anyone should be embarrassed the way they walked into one of those playoff wins though. 7-9 with a home game? Congrats to them for winning but that is a complete sham. Last year they had an awesome draft, and hit some homeruns with Browner and Loudmouth before that. Great job on their part, but if the end result is what they've accomplished then they're in the same boat as us despite them getting there 3 years sooner.
I sure would like to have those 3 seasons and all of that season ticketholder $$$$ back and have a winner sooner. LOL
And whose fault is that? Doesn't cap management fall under Ricks watch?
From what I remember he inherited a pretty suspect cap situation and a bad team. Hard to get good players to come play for you when you're in that position.
Lets just say my philosophy is more in line with Carroll than Gary/Rick.
tru80texan
Waterboy
You mentioned it, not me. I'm just pointing out that, as you stated, the Seahawks made it there A LOT quicker & are building a solid foundation as we continue to lose some of ours by not being able to re-sign our young players & not necessarily filling in those positions w/ equal or better talent. That is at best an "ok" job by Smith..."at best" are the key words & I'm not necessarily sure if I can agree w/ that depending on this young offseason. Teams have accomplished what Smith & Kubiak have tried to accomplish in less time & they still haven't necessarily created a proven winner for years to come as they have obviously struggled outside of the Wild Card round. Losing young talent is not necessarily the formula for sustained success, but how can it be avoided when Smith is trying to clean up the mess he created w/ the salary cap. We will see what Smith can do shortly, but Ive got some concerns based on his spotty past.
tru80texan
Waterboy
No he didn't. It's been 6 YEARS & none of Casserly's players remain nor do their contracts. This is Smith's players & team. At some point the blame has go to whom it belongs to & it's Smith. That Casserly/ Capers fault excuse is a tired excuse & completely false at this point.
Look, I said that Rick Smith hasn't been all world, but watch what happens to that Seahawk team the next few years. They're gonna lose some of their good guys just like everyone else. But I'm going to let you guys continue to debate this. I stand in the "he's ok crowd".
I was referring to when he first came in to be the GM. Did he oversign some average guys because no top players wanted to come here? Yes, again let me remind you I said I'm in the he's ok crowd.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yes he did inherit a crappy cap situation with tons of dead money in contracts for Walker, Wade, etc. who could not contribute. The team is Smith's and Kubiak's now but it is accurate to say they started off behind the 8-ball.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Which is the case for every HC that takes over a below 500 team. I've never understood why you guys have hyped that excuse up so heavily for Smithiak the first 3 to 4 years. You are right that it's an accurate assessment, but it isn't anything that tons of other coaches haven't had to walk into when they're the new hire just like Kubiak was.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
No. the capologist has been some guy named Olson, i think.
and McNair sets the budget. Smith has done a great job after a bad first year (2007) executing within the parameters he has been given, IMO.
This shouldn't be missed... Right now the Texans have elite NFL players at numerous positions, all brought here by Smith, and Smith did so in unconventional ways or in unpopular moves:
1. Duane Brown- remember that pick, #26... People were livid that he reached. Well, he's universally regarded as one of the three best LTs in football now.
2. Brian Cushing- his pick was heavily criticized because Cushing was a "workout warrior who didn't love football". He's arguably the best ILB in the NFL.
3. Arian Foster- UDFA... Smith stole him from the Bears by offering him a two year contract as an UDFA. That is very seldom done. Foster is one of the top 5 backs in the NFL.
4. J.J.Watt- people were luke warm on him... Smith, drafting 9th, selected the best defensive player since LT.
5. K.Jackson- He was persecuted for this pick when it happened. Then, when David Gibbs (a coach Smith did not want to hire but Kubiak hired anyway) coached him up, he looked like a bad version of Faggins... Now, Jackson is 1/2 of a cornerback tandem that is among the best in the NFL.
6. J.Joseph- is the other half of that tandem. Everyone wanted Asomugha but Smith saved some money and grabbed the young, more versatile, more athletic J.JO.
Not many teams in the NFL have anywhere near a list of elite, young NFL players like the one I just listed.
Since 2008, Rick Smith's moves have been consistently proven to be good... He's made some mistakes, usually small ones, but he has made many good decisions that have set the Texan organization up for long term success.
Despite having to purge some players last year as the cap tightened, the Texans put together enough pieces for a 12 win season and are now have a healthy cap situation and likely 4 extra draft picks resulting from last season's frugality.
Moving forward, the Texans are in position to collect another bundle of compensatory picks for 2014 as roughly 10 or 11 of their unrestricted free agents are likely to sign qualifying deals with other teams. Meanwhile, the Texans have about $11 million under the cap to add some veteran help and re-sign some of their free agents before adding 11 more players in the April draft.
Also, they have talented players with upside and experience contributing as rookies and second year players for a playoff team... for instance:
Derek Newton
Ben Jones
Brandon Brooks
D. Posey
Keyshawn Martin
Lestar Jean
Garrett Graham
Klutts
Ben Tate
Jared Crick
Tim Jamison
Earl Mitchell
Mercilus
Brooks Reed
Bryan Braman
Brandon Harris
It's an impressive resume that Rick has put together. One that most of the NFL respects.
tru80texan
Waterboy
You are correct & that's what I meant to be honest. Initially Smith had a mess, but the issues now are his & his alone. When all else fails too many STILL try to fall back on the Casserly/ Capers excuse which is no longer valid at this point.
tru80texan
Waterboy
While I can agree w/ some of this, most of contains exaggerations that would simply take to long to reply to them all. So all I can really say is...have another glass on me
.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Smith, as GM, can only acquire the pieces. He has done that. Does anyone disagree that he has assembled a very talented and young team? It is a team that has won the division and a playoff game each of the past two seasons without any beneficial anomalies like abnormally good team health or inordinate amount of close wins. This is a team where the bulk of the talent is on the front side of its career. Given Smith's success in the draft the past 4 years and the team's ability to acquire extra compensatory picks the next few seasons, the expiring veteran contracts and cap-friendly contracts, I don't expect the talent level or production to drop... do you? why?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I am not hyping anything. I didn't bring it up. I merely noted it was an accurate statement in the face of a denial.
I think the Texans were carrying more dead money than usual but really don't feel like arguing about it. You might look at the crud teams and regime change teams this year and you will find many with considerable cap space, but as I said the team is now Smith and Kubiak's.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
While I can agree w/ some of this, most of contains exaggerations that would simply take to long to reply to them all. So all I can really say is...have another glass on me
Nope. There are no exaggerations. The long list can be picked at... however, I'm only arguing that those players have a combination of youth, talent, and experience that make it likely they will contribute to a quality team moving forward and the majority can be expected to improve.
If I were to change the GM & HC of the Bills & the Packers, which team do you think would be more successful sooner?
The Seahawks were a play-off team from 2003-2007, that's 5 years of winning. They were in the Super Bowl in 2005. We busted on David Carr in 2005, busted on our GM Caserly, & busted on our HC. You can't compare what Pete Caroll & Schneider has done since 2010 with what Kubiak & Smith has done since 2007.
Caroll & Schneider were brought in to bring the Seahawks back to a winning tradition, they didn't have to rebuild the organization from top to bottom.
What did Holmgren do in Cleveland? That's comparable.
I agree with you to some extent, that the Texans have swung & missed on a lot of opportunities. But this "baby steps" rant you've got going is misplaced. If the Oilers had never left, if Rick & Gary took over that organization, then you'd be on point. But this is totally new.
Is 10 years too long to build a successful organization in one of the most competitive professional leagues in the world? Maybe. Would it have taken 10 years had we started with Kubiak & Smith? Probably not & I say that because we've seen what they've done in the last 7, if they didn't have all that baggage left by Casserly & Capers, it's within reason to believe we'd have been successful sooner.
Right now, the only thing I'm concerned about, is if the success we've seen is sustainable (is it real) & if we have the right people in place to take it further.
I'm celebrating "baby steps" yeah... but it is what it is. I'll be happy if we get to the play offs again & lose in the divisional round. I want a Super Bowl, but a third play-off season would help me believe this is one of the better teams in the league, which is a long way from where this team was in 2007.
& yes, if we don't make the play offs in 2013, Gary or Rick should be fired. Maybe both, depending on who replaces Gary (if it's Gary that leaves).
I expect better than OK.
Maybe that's just the way I roll with most things in life. I understand that OK is good enough for most of the Texans loyal fanbase. They've had over a decade to be conditioned to think this way by the Texans org.
Give me a duo like Carroll/Schnieder over Gary/Rick any day of the week and twice on Sundays. TThey are making moves to try to win a SB. Gary/Rick continue to sit on their hands. I think this edict comes from BoB. Rick/Gary are trying to do all they can within the perameters BoB has allowed them to work within.
Those parmeters will never lead to a SB though. IMHO
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Hard to argue with what they are doing in Seattle.
That being said, I think we will enter August of 2013 season and August of 2014 season as one of the two or three most talented teams in the AFC. So, I think we have a good shot at a Superbowl, despite my hangover from the New England debacles and the reality that Kubiak/Wade were totally outclassed by New England coaching staff.
That's the thing everyone seems to be ignoring - or at least failing to acknowledge. Rick Smith doesn't make moves in a vacuum. Uncle Bob doesn't want it that way. Any move this team makes, and pretty much has been since Charlie left, is a collaboration.
- The coordinators cook up their respective schemes.
- The head coach oversees/approves what they come up with; much more so on offense than defense (thank God!).
- Then the respective coordinators and their support staffs let the scouts know what attributes the respective schemes will demand.
- The scouts go out and locate those guys then run the prospects they find by the coordinators/coaches.
- They check the reports, watch college film, then come up with a shopping list for Rick Smith to target in free agency or the draft. Mainly the draft.
I'd bet good money that Rick Smith hasn't picked a single player that hasn't been vetted by "the committee". And I know if I were the head coach or one of the coordinators, I wouldn't want him to.
Why would any coach/coordinator want a guy who doesn't call the plays or come up with the weekly game plan selecting players to execute said game plan/plays without his input?? Like Parcells said, "if I have to cook the meal, I ought to get to shop for the groceries."
All that to say Rick Smith may go get the groceries but he damn sure doesn't make the grocery list on his own. His job is to get as many of the guys the coaches tell him to get as he can and get them under contract at a price we can afford in today's constricted salary cap NFL.
The secondary (a very close second) is to keep the core players long term and retain/replace role players as necessary. When another team sees that one of your role players can be a core player for them - and wants to pay them like a core player - you have no choice but to let them walk. I'm not in favor of scrambling to keep Casey or Quin or Barwin if it means I don't have cap room to keep Cushing next year or Watt the year after that.
just my
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Rick Smith looked really smart when Baewin took 6m a year from the Eagles! Good thing he didn't accept our offer and let us overpay him!!!! Great job Rock!!!!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
What does watching more basketball have to do with him winning GM of the year? What's more is what does it have to do with his abilities at acquiring enough talent for us to win a playoff series? All he's done is flip rosters every year...& so far that has led to us to picking 14th in the lottery for 3-4 straight seasons. His moves just now are about to put us back in the playoffs...what do we have to wait 3-4 more years before we win another playoff series and become a true contender?
His resume thus far has yielded mediocore to below mediocore results in the grand scheme of things.
rolyat93
Waterboy
Watch more basketball and you'd know what he's done to the roster.
Flipped broken down Yao/Tracy on a team in cap hell into a 23 year old superstar that's locked up for 5 more years along with young high upside players on good contracts with cap room to go after another big name guy.
Obviously they're just now starting to pay off, but show me one team that's not a NY/LA market that's rebuilt itself like this team has in just 3-4 years. Better yet, show me one that's done what Morey has without tanking.