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Report: Texans and Raiders in Serious Trade Talk for Matt Schaub

I figured this was coming after the Ryan Fitzpatrick signing. Fitzpatrick isn't an upgrade on Schaub, but he's an upgrade as far as the cap situation goes moving forward IF we were able to get Schaub off the books. Looks like that will be the case.
 
msbbc833 said:
With 3 QBs on the roster after Schaub's departure, does this mean that we will not be taking a QB with 1-1?
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No. We'll be selecting a rookie qb...just not certain if in round #1. Yates is going to have a hard time making this team.
 
amazing80 said:
First of all you should go back through my posts and my outlines for previous off-seasons, I have a better understanding of the cap than 95% of the people in here and when I don't know something I research an answer. You may not agree with what I say or maybe I am too "vague" for you but to say my post post was an "ignorant assertion" is laughable.

So let me break it down and clarify for you. By cutting Schaub and designating June 1st, we would have gained approximately 10 m. That alone is enough to sign some guys like Carlos Rogers, Pat Angerer and maybe even a pass rusher. A few guys to fill some holes and be role players instead of pumping out scrubs like Sharpton, Reed and McCain.

Second of all, by trading Schaub you have 9 m this year and about 44 m next year. (assuming no one else is signed which won't be accurate but its easier to do this illustration). If you June 1st cut him you bump up to 19 m this year and 37 m next year. Its not as simple as rolling the money over and doing what you wish with it. With bonuses and pro rations you would come out ahead by cutting him, signing guys and then having a bunch of money next year still. Instead you do nothing now, and have just a few million more next year. Its called improving your roster NOW and getting players accustomed to the coaching style and scheme, instead of wasting time.
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When you make a June 1st Cut, the money that is getting pushed into the following year is not available until... wait for it.... JUNE 1st. So cutting anyone and designating them as such doesn't actually give you that cash to spend on the first week of free agency bonanza. Post-June 1st signings are almost always bargain bin deals, and not impact players. So there really isn't much to gain by cutting Schaub instead of getting a 6th or 7th for him.

And please, tell us more about the cap rollover limitations.
 
thunderkyss said:
Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.
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CantPullWoolOverEyes-PhotoCreditCheezburgerCom.jpg
 
amazing80 said:
First of all you should go back through my posts and my outlines for previous off-seasons, I have a better understanding of the cap than 95% of the people in here and when I don't know something I research an answer.
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Clearly that is not the case on either assertion.

Cap carryover - wrong. How June 1st works - wrong. You're 0 for 2. 95% of monkeys with darts would have gotten one correct.
 
Dutchrudder said:
When you make a June 1st Cut, the money that is getting pushed into the following year is not available until... wait for it.... JUNE 1st. So cutting anyone and designating them as such doesn't actually give you that cash to spend on the first week of free agency bonanza. Post-June 1st signings are almost always bargain bin deals, and not impact players. So there really isn't much to gain by cutting Schaub instead of getting a 6th or 7th for him.

And please, tell us more about the cap rollover limitations.
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If you know how to balance a check book the salary cap is easy. If you June 1st cut someone you know you will have that money. So if you spend youre current cash you will be ok, because you're checking account will get a deposit soon. The salary cap has wiggle room, its not this death ray that if crossed you're limb gets amputated.

Next since you traded schaub his bonus is paid out now, it won't be pro rated. Meaning the hit comes now. If you June 1st cut him it gets prorated. So instead of a bigger hit now we spread it out. Giving us money now and still leaving us money later.

In theory the guy was right, the salary "basically" rolls over, but its much more complicated than that. You don't get all the money you think you do because bonuses get subtracted either right away or over 2 years.

All I was/am trying to say is that IMO you can have your cake and eat it too. You can create room now to sign guys and still leave plenty of room to operate next season. Instead of wasting an entire season. Im not trying to get you guys riled up, but Im just tired of sitting back and never improving while the top dogs keep improving year after year.
 
infantrycak said:
Clearly that is not the case on either assertion.

Cap carryover - wrong. How June 1st works - wrong. You're 0 for 2. 95% of monkeys with darts would have gotten one correct.
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Instead of sitting back with your 42000 lame posts with no insght, why don't you indulge in conversation and add some thought to my "ignorance". Or is that beneath you oh mighty one? :joker:
 
LikeMike said:
So, about the cap: we eat all his salary this year but are off for the next, right?
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My question exactly too. Can some of you "cap gurus" please explain how this will affect our cap situation? I can only assume it's alot better than outright cutting him.
 
dream_team said:
My question exactly too. Can some of you "cap gurus" please explain how this will affect our cap situation? I can only assume it's alot better than outright cutting him.
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Basically it only gives us a few million in cap space this year extra. Next year the rest will be applied.
 
amazing80 said:
Basically it only gives us a few million in cap space this year extra. Next year the rest will be applied.
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I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year
 
JB said:
I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year
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Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.
 
amazing80 said:
Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.
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That is how I understood it. I misunderstood what you were saying
 
JB said:
I thought we had $10.5 million in dead money this year against the cap, and none of his would count next year
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That's how it works in this scenario. If he was a June 1 cut, it would be something like 3.5m this year and 7m next year.
 
amazing80 said:
Schaub will create 10.5 m in dead money this year, but still save us 3.5. We go from whatever we currently have and add 3.5 in space NOW.

It adds approximately 17 m in cap space for next season.
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So you're saying the dead money for this season still applies. But after this season, we are 100% free from Schaub's salary in regards to the cap?
 
Pending a physical.

According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Raiders are ready to trade a low-round draft pick for Schaub and make him their starting quarterback. Fox Sports’ Mike Garafolo confirmed that the trade is a done deal, pending a physical.

Of course, the main issue is not the low pick Oakland will give up - it’s the five-year, $66.15 million contract Schaub signed in Sept., 2012. That contract goes with Schaub, and it guarantees him a $10 million base salary, plus $1 million total in per-game-roster bonuses.
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Link

Writer Doug Farrar concludes:

This is the kind of move that gets people fired.
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amazing80 said:
Instead of sitting back with your 42000 lame posts with no insght, why don't you indulge in conversation and add some thought to my "ignorance". Or is that beneath you oh mighty one? :joker:
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You are conflating two separate issues.

1) unused cap can carry over. No further discussion is necessary on that you were just wrong.

2) June 1st cuts. This is not an issue of unused cap. It is how used cap gets accounted. Dutch has explained about the availability of cap room gained with the June 1st option as it applies to the Texans signing free agents right now. For Schaub the difference is non-June 1st cut or trade: 2014 $10.5 mil, 2015 0 v. June 1st cut: 2014 $3.5 mil, 2015 $7 mil. Neither involves cap space carry over.

In fact Dutch, several others and I have explained both of these things many times over the past few weeks so neither should be a revelation. And don't act so put upon - this started because you condescended to someone else with an incorrect assertion about cap carryover.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Since the entire team will be learning a new system this year.. I'll say taking the hit now and being free and clear next year is a lot better.. Especially since we'll have to resign Watt.
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thunderkyss said:
Andre, DeAndre, Foster, Graham, DBrown, Chris Myers, Brooks... seven returning starters on offense.

Jj, Cushing, Whitney, Reed, Kj, Dj, DMan... seven returning starters on defense.

I don't think this is a rebuild.
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If it ain't a rebuild it's serious makeover.
New starters at QB, RT, RG, TE, DE, NT, ILB, and OLB, and nickel CB; yeah, that's a serious makeover.
 
djohn2oo8 said:
Reed is garbage, along with Mercilus.
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Disagree..... with a condition. If Rac changes what these players are being asked to do and they don't improve then OK, I'll agree with that. What are the odds of Wade Phillips and Romeo Crennel both being just too incompetent to put them in a position to succeed right?

I want to see what Crennel does with them first. That's all I'm saying. You might very well be right and the evidence doesn't exactly make a case for either of them but I'd still like to see what happens before giving up all hope.
 
infantrycak said:
You are conflating two separate issues.

1) unused cap can carry over. No further discussion is necessary on that you were just wrong.

2) June 1st cuts. This is not an issue of unused cap. It is how used cap gets accounted. Dutch has explained about the availability of cap room gained with the June 1st option as it applies to the Texans signing free agents right now. For Schaub the difference is non-June 1st cut or trade: 2014 $10.5 mil, 2015 0 v. June 1st cut: 2014 $3.5 mil, 2015 $7 mil. Neither involves cap space carry over.

In fact Dutch, several others and I have explained both of these things many times over the past few weeks so neither should be a revelation. And don't act so put upon - this started because you condescended to someone else with an incorrect assertion about cap carryover.
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Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.
 
There's no doubt that Schaub needed a new start somewhere else. That said, he'll likely be better this season than any QB we start in 2014. It's unfortunate, but the Fitz won't be better nor will a rookie in this year's draft.

A year or two away......again
 
ObsiWan said:
If it ain't a rebuild it's serious makeover.
New starters at QB, RT, RG, TE, DE, NT, ILB, and OLB, and nickel CB; yeah, that's a serious makeover.
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Serious makeover sounds about right to me. I think we'll have to wait until the end of 2014 to get a definitive statement out of the Texans. If they come out next year and surprise everyone, hit on a few key picks and signings, win 8-10 games somehow then it was a makeover. If things don't go well they'll admit that they were rebuilding.
 
A rebuild is when you get rid of all your best players. We still have ours.

Also, thinking this is a rebuild means you think 2011 and 2012 were the fluke years, not 2013.

There is such a thing as retooling. You know who's rebuilding? The Raiders.

Hate that Schaub has to go to Oakland, but I'm glad we got a pick and I'm glad it frees up a lot of money.
 
amazing80 said:
Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.
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Yes it is incorrect.

Unused cap/carryover: Say the cap is $130 mil in 2014 and $140 mil in 2015. If the Texans only use $125 mil of cap in 2014 they can carry $5 mil over to 2015 and their cap for 2015 will be $145. Yes what you do to get to $125 v. $127 mil in 2014 affects how much carryover is available but whatever is remainder is carryover. It moves cap space from one year to the next.

June 1st ONLY deals with dead money accounting - money which has already been spent which must appear on the cap somewhere. It's a zero sum game as the total amount is the same it is just a question of whether it gets accounted for in one year or two. It doesn't move cap space it uses the available cap space differently.
 
How on earth did Rick Smith ever sell this to the Raiders?
If we get a 6th or 7th it's still a good deal but if we get a 5th... it's practically a coup.
 
amazing80 said:
Depending on what is done "cap carryover" (as you call it) is greatly affected on what you do. You call it carry over i don't. Its money already spent that simply gets applied differently depending on the choice you make with the player. Its either applied now or later, not "carried over".

I also don't consider unused cap as carrying over. To me carrying over means accumulating. When in reality the cap is set and players come on and off the team and their salaries follow. Its not carrying over its simply salaries being applied or not applied. The 20 million doesn't carry over, it will be there if not spent or will not be there if spent. Maybe my thought process is confusing or something, but its not incorrect.
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...

Carrying Over Room. A Club may "carry over" Room from one
League Year to the following League Year by submitting notice in writing signed by the
owner to the NFL no later than fourteen (14) days prior to the start of the next League
Year indicating the maximum amount of Room that the Club wishes to carry over. The
NFL shall prompdy provide a copy of any such notice to the NFLP A. The amount of
Room carried over will be adjusted downward based on the final Room available after
the year-end reconciliation
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NFL 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement
 
Well, I'm still not sure about Rick Smith being that good of a GM, but he ought to at least get salesman of the year award for this.
 
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