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Rebuilding this team

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
I would maybe keep Fulton to play center, cut Martin, draft a future center. WR, money has to be reduced, cannot pay a bunch of #2 and #3 guys, Let Stills walk, try to trade Fuller to contender. DW4 and our new OC has to be able to make average WR good with the money he makes. Mckinney can go, think all of his abuse he has taken is slowing him down further. I think you have to ride with Zach for a bit. JJ, I watch his health, any more serious injuries and bye, otherwise he is a marketing machine and he will not go anywhere
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I would maybe keep Fulton to play center, cut Martin, draft a future center. WR, money has to be reduced, cannot pay a bunch of #2 and #3 guys, Let Stills walk, try to trade Fuller to contender. DW4 and our new OC has to be able to make average WR good with the money he makes. Mckinney can go, think all of his abuse he has taken is slowing him down further. I think you have to ride with Zach for a bit. JJ, I watch his health, any more serious injuries and bye, otherwise he is a marketing machine and he will not go anywhere

Normally I wouldn't disagree with the idea of drafting an OC but they just don't have much draft capital to work with this offseason and there's just too many holes to fill.

Because of a shrinking cap and pending FA's they could be replacing the entire WR corps and both RB's and we haven't even addressed the defense .... all with no picks before round 3.

Fulton comes pretty cheap next year with a $3m cap hit. That's 34.2% of what Martin costs for 21.

Now if they are on the clock in round 3 with Jimmy Morrissey or Trey Hill on the board .... I might consider it but even then , it would depend upon who else is on the board. WR , CB , RB & Edge rushers would all be priority over C for me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Normally I wouldn't disagree with the idea of drafting an OC but they just don't have much draft capital to work with this offseason and there's just too many holes to fill.

Because of a shrinking cap and pending FA's they could be replacing the entire WR corps and both RB's and we haven't even addressed the defense .... all with no picks before round 3.

Fulton comes pretty cheap next year with a $3m cap hit. That's 34.2% of what Martin costs for 21.

Now if they are on the clock in round 3 with Jimmy Morrissey or Trey Hill on the board .... I might consider it but even then , it would depend upon who else is on the board. WR , CB , RB & Edge rushers would all be priority over C for me.
If Trey Hill is there you pick him. I'm hoping that they can add a couple of starters in the draft and finding long term starters in the 3rd/4th rd in the RB/OG/S positions the odds are greater than finding long term starter at CB/Edge/DT/WR at that point in the draft.

BTW, I think that both the Texans/Cards picks in the 4th are going to be high 4th rd picks so if theres a guy that I really like I would use a 5th or 6th rd pick with one of the 4ths to trade up into the bottom of the 3rd and get my guy.
 
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Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Normally I wouldn't disagree with the idea of drafting an OC but they just don't have much draft capital to work with this offseason and there's just too many holes to fill.

Because of a shrinking cap and pending FA's they could be replacing the entire WR corps and both RB's and we haven't even addressed the defense .... all with no picks before round 3.

Fulton comes pretty cheap next year with a $3m cap hit. That's 34.2% of what Martin costs for 21.

Now if they are on the clock in round 3 with Jimmy Morrissey or Trey Hill on the board .... I might consider it but even then , it would depend upon who else is on the board. WR , CB , RB & Edge rushers would all be priority over C for me.
AGree we have holes everywhere, especially if ejecting salary thus my preference on Fulton over Martin and get in someone long term via draft, my expectations are pretty low to mediocre for the next few years. If coaching finally starts developing players, maybe some rd2 and rd3 and below actually develop. I know we had Reader and Reid, but more misses then hits outside rd1. Safe to say we can go best player available for a while now
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
AGree we have holes everywhere, especially if ejecting salary thus my preference on Fulton over Martin and get in someone long term via draft, my expectations are pretty low to mediocre for the next few years. If coaching finally starts developing players, maybe some rd2 and rd3 and below actually develop. I know we had Reader and Reid, but more misses then hits outside rd1. Safe to say we can go best player available for a while now
Remember they don't have 1st or 2nd round picks .... those go to Miami.

Dumping Martin as a cost cutting move , Fulton as a stop gap for 21 ... and look to draft one in 22 unless there is a surprise player who falls to you in the 3rd.

Just so many holes and no picks or money to fill them.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Remember they don't have 1st or 2nd round picks .... those go to Miami.

Dumping Martin as a cost cutting move , Fulton as a stop gap for 21 ... and look to draft one in 22 unless there is a surprise player who falls to you in the 3rd.

Just so many holes and no picks or money to fill them.
They can fill alot of those holes by dumping salary, starting with Watt and ending with Martin/DJ.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Play the young guys now (if there are any). This season is lost and not just because of the record. RAC could have better awareness of situational football, however even with OB gone his disciples and philosophy still remain. After the season, cut bait with the albatross contracts that don't fit into the future (take the medicine in 2021 while the owner is able to continue to spread out the $$$ losses from Covid-19). 2021 is about the coaching staff establishing the identity and laying the foundation to be competitive. Then after the 2021 season you are back to normal with draft capital, cap money and your coaching staff having a year of working together.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
The unfortunate reality.....Cal named Easterby the interim GM which means the Texans are probably sitting tight through the trade deadline. Texans cannot get a new GM until season's end more than likely....but, if Cal could somehow come to his senses he'd hire Bill Polian to come in and mentor the family, help with the hiring process of the new GM, keep an eye on Easterby, and most importantly...he's someone I would trust to pull the strings on a few trade deadline moves to get some draft capital back and help get the salary cap in order before the off-season kicks off. Not to mention....he's available right now.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Disagree. The player who was pivotal in getting OB fired gets a pass. For that alone should be more than enough.

He's got the biggest cap hit with no guaranteed money. He's probably the only player that would return a 2nd or higher pick. & he's got two brothers playing in Pittsburgh.

I don't want to do it, but getting him away from Houston's medical staff will probably extend his career another 6/7 years. & would go a long way towards replacing the talent we need.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Play the young guys now (if there are any). This season is lost and not just because of the record. RAC could have better awareness of situational football, however even with OB gone his disciples and philosophy still remain. After the season, cut bait with the albatross contracts that don't fit into the future (take the medicine in 2021 while the owner is able to continue to spread out the $$$ losses from Covid-19). 2021 is about the coaching staff establishing the identity and laying the foundation to be competitive. Then after the 2021 season you are back to normal with draft capital, cap money and your coaching staff having a year of working together.

Just to clear up one misconception - The "Losses spread over 4 years" are loss of revenue due to covid. Revenue is what dictates the cap.
Last years revenue was ~$17.5B which equated to a cap figure of $198m for each team.

They lose ~$5B this year in revenue (I think that's a little low) and have a total revenue of ~$12B , the cap reduction will be spread across the next 4 seasons.

This is with the assumption that life returns to normal between now and 21 or further reductions in the cap will occur.


They can do nothing different cap wise than they could pre-covid.

Dead money due to cuts isn't part of that.

The rule on how dead money is its designated - Pre June 1 is all on the current years cap , Post June 1 its spread over two years.
 

KoolAid Sipper

Waterboy
Just to clear up one misconception - The "Losses spread over 4 years" are loss of revenue due to covid. Revenue is what dictates the cap.
Last years revenue was ~$17.5B which equated to a cap figure of $198m for each team.

They lose ~$5B this year in revenue (I think that's a little low) and have a total revenue of ~$12B , the cap reduction will be spread across the next 4 seasons.

This is with the assumption that life returns to normal between now and 21 or further reductions in the cap will occur.


They can do nothing different cap wise than they could pre-covid.

Dead money due to cuts isn't part of that.

The rule on how dead money is its designated - Pre June 1 is all on the current years cap , Post June 1 its spread over two years.
Got it, I guess my optimism was trying to say that if you take your dead money hit in a year where revenue is expected to be down (lower cap) then your freedom will be even greater if normalcy returns after 2021 season if revenue climbs proportional (not equal) to pre-covid. Either way take the lumps and get it over with.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
He's got the biggest cap hit with no guaranteed money. He's probably the only player that would return a 2nd or higher pick. & he's got two brothers playing in Pittsburgh.

I don't want to do it, but getting him away from Houston's medical staff will probably extend his career another 6/7 years. & would go a long way towards replacing the talent we need.
I am not saying you don’t make sense. I am not advocating to hold him hostage either because this franchise ain’t going to do anything the next two years and he would be best served elsewhere. Like AJ and Hopkins. It’s looking like you can add Watson to that list.

Ultimately let him make the choice. Which I don’t think anyone would disagree with.

He has earned it.

Myself making a GM decision like that, while not prudent, is still much better than what we have seen Cal sign off on for Hopkins, Tunsil, and Clowney.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Got it, I guess my optimism was trying to say that if you take your dead money hit in a year where revenue is expected to be down (lower cap) then your freedom will be even greater if normalcy returns after 2021 season if revenue climbs proportional (not equal) to pre-covid. Either way take the lumps and get it over with.

We're in agreement on that bottom line - Clear the decks and put it behind you .... No reason not to when you aren't winning anything this season and not doing it means you have to do it next year ... and that likely means you aren't winning anything then either.
 

Wolfiegrrl

Wonder Woman
Something jumped out at me while I watched the process of the Seattle Seahawks trade away 1st & 3rd round 2021 picks and 1st round 2022 pick. We don't know what these college guys are going to be like coming out over the next few years. A lot of college guys aren't playing right now. Some won't play even if their schools play again. The Seahawks traded away uncertain future guys for talent.

Now before you yell at me... I realize that O'B royally screwed this team with the trades and picks that he made. I hope that we get a GM in here that can assess the talent that we have and find a coach that can pull the most out of the guys on the field. RAC's presser the other day and the article I read talking about O'Brian's 'perfect practices' had me thinking a lot of guys were practicing with too much on their minds. "Gotta be perfect for Coach." These guys need the place to practice, make mistakes, correct them before they go on the field. As RAC said, 'build up the trust that the guy next to you is minding their gap and sticking to their assignment'. I think we'll see talent bloom on the field again now that the guys get to practice without worrying about screwing it up.

Back to my first point. The talent on the team should flourish. Does it suck to not have those young cap cheap picks? Sure. But what the hell is the 2021 draft and beyond going to produce if the college players aren't playing? I'll take the shot with the shaky talent and known quality of the vets over the inexperienced, not playing quality of the rookies over the next few years. The vets know their jobs are on the line and will work super hard to keep their jobs.

I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it. But it's my silver lining to seeing how cap strapped and royally screwed this team is at the moment. As a side note, RAC will not be our HC after 2021. I'm sure the dude is ready to retire and only stayed around to help Weaver in his first year as DC.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Something jumped out at me while I watched the process of the Seattle Seahawks trade away 1st & 3rd round 2021 picks and 1st round 2022 pick. We don't know what these college guys are going to be like coming out over the next few years. A lot of college guys aren't playing right now. Some won't play even if their schools play again. The Seahawks traded away uncertain future guys for talent.

Now before you yell at me... I realize that O'B royally screwed this team with the trades and picks that he made. I hope that we get a GM in here that can assess the talent that we have and find a coach that can pull the most out of the guys on the field. RAC's presser the other day and the article I read talking about O'Brian's 'perfect practices' had me thinking a lot of guys were practicing with too much on their minds. "Gotta be perfect for Coach." These guys need the place to practice, make mistakes, correct them before they go on the field. As RAC said, 'build up the trust that the guy next to you is minding their gap and sticking to their assignment'. I think we'll see talent bloom on the field again now that the guys get to practice without worrying about screwing it up.

Back to my first point. The talent on the team should flourish. Does it suck to not have those young cap cheap picks? Sure. But what the hell is the 2021 draft and beyond going to produce if the college players aren't playing? I'll take the shot with the shaky talent and known quality of the vets over the inexperienced, not playing quality of the rookies over the next few years. The vets know their jobs are on the line and will work super hard to keep their jobs.

I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it. But it's my silver lining to seeing how cap strapped and royally screwed this team is at the moment. As a side note, RAC will not be our HC after 2021. I'm sure the dude is ready to retire and only stayed around to help Weaver in his first year as DC.
I think, or so I selfishly hope, many teams are going to be having to cut quality players next year because of their own uncomfortable cap situations. You’ll be able to acquire them on cheaper contracts than usual and probably on shorter contracts. That will make it easier to expunge bad contracts here and replace the underperforming, high priced Texans veterans with players more suitable to the new coaching staff.

Replacing even fan favorite players is always the painful process of a regime change. But I’m going to be honest: there’s not very many players left on this roster that I have any loyalty to. Watt and Watson are the only two I can think of. The rest of them? So long and thanks for all the memories.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Does it suck to not have those young cap cheap picks? Sure. But what the hell is the 2021 draft and beyond going to produce if the college players aren't playing? I'll take the shot with the shaky talent and known quality of the vets over the inexperienced, not playing quality of the rookies over the next few years.
Love the optimism.

But... we're screwed in the draft because we have no high picks. We're also screwed in FA because we have no money. We're screwed on the roster because we can't afford to keep all the guys we've signed.

BO'b did a good job of s really screwing this team's future
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Something jumped out at me while I watched the process of the Seattle Seahawks trade away 1st & 3rd round 2021 picks and 1st round 2022 pick. We don't know what these college guys are going to be like coming out over the next few years. A lot of college guys aren't playing right now. Some won't play even if their schools play again. The Seahawks traded away uncertain future guys for talent.

Now before you yell at me... I realize that O'B royally screwed this team with the trades and picks that he made. I hope that we get a GM in here that can assess the talent that we have and find a coach that can pull the most out of the guys on the field. RAC's presser the other day and the article I read talking about O'Brian's 'perfect practices' had me thinking a lot of guys were practicing with too much on their minds. "Gotta be perfect for Coach." These guys need the place to practice, make mistakes, correct them before they go on the field. As RAC said, 'build up the trust that the guy next to you is minding their gap and sticking to their assignment'. I think we'll see talent bloom on the field again now that the guys get to practice without worrying about screwing it up.

Back to my first point. The talent on the team should flourish. Does it suck to not have those young cap cheap picks? Sure. But what the hell is the 2021 draft and beyond going to produce if the college players aren't playing? I'll take the shot with the shaky talent and known quality of the vets over the inexperienced, not playing quality of the rookies over the next few years. The vets know their jobs are on the line and will work super hard to keep their jobs.

I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it. But it's my silver lining to seeing how cap strapped and royally screwed this team is at the moment. As a side note, RAC will not be our HC after 2021. I'm sure the dude is ready to retire and only stayed around to help Weaver in his first year as DC.
You're saying BOB had a crystal ball?
He knew the pandemic is coming when he made the trades?
Did he see his firing coming too? :ahhaha:
 

Wolfiegrrl

Wonder Woman
As for the crystal ball, I think he was trying too hard to be Belichek. No one can compare to that guy. O'Brian's ego got in the way. Oh I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall. The pressure kept mounting and BO'b kept getting more and more frustrated. Digging the hole deeper and deeper. I'm glad he's gone.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Guys I'm pretty certain that won't be on the Texans in 2021 (and their cap savings):

Brandin Cooks ($12 million)
Benardrick McKinney ($7 million)
David Johnson ($6.9 million)
Duke Johnson ($5.1 million)
Brandon Dunn ($3.25 million)
Zach Fulton ($3 million)
Darren Fells ($2.3 million)
Randall Cobb (-$1.6 million)
Whitney Mercilus (-3 million)

That's a total cap savings of $35 million. That will take the edge off the the 2021 salary cap. There is another $7 million to be cleared with guys on contracts under $2 million. Other teams will be in similar situations, so there will be bargains to be had in free agency. And then there's JJ Watt and his $17.5 million cap hit. Will the new regime offer an extension at a lower cap number? Will they release him and let him play closer to home, closer to his bros, or closer to Hollywood?

The cap situation is not ideal. But not overwhelming to a GM and capologist that knows how the NFL works. Just have to hire these guys. That's all. :)
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
Guys I'm pretty certain that won't be on the Texans in 2021 (and their cap savings):

Brandin Cooks ($12 million)
Benardrick McKinney ($7 million)
David Johnson ($6.9 million)
Duke Johnson ($5.1 million)
Brandon Dunn ($3.25 million)
Zach Fulton ($3 million)
Darren Fells ($2.3 million)
Randall Cobb (-$1.6 million)
Whitney Mercilus (-3 million)

That's a total cap savings of $35 million. That will take the edge off the the 2021 salary cap. There is another $7 million to be cleared with guys on contracts under $2 million. Other teams will be in similar situations, so there will be bargains to be had in free agency. And then there's JJ Watt and his $17.5 million cap hit. Will the new regime offer an extension at a lower cap number? Will they release him and let him play closer to home, closer to his bros, or closer to Hollywood?

The cap situation is not ideal. But not overwhelming to a GM and capologist that knows how the NFL works. Just have to hire these guys. That's all. :)
The biggest thing will be finding guys who we can get on team friendly deals, but that will bring value to our roster.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Just to clear up one misconception - The "Losses spread over 4 years" are loss of revenue due to covid. Revenue is what dictates the cap.
Last years revenue was ~$17.5B which equated to a cap figure of $198m for each team.

They lose ~$5B this year in revenue (I think that's a little low) and have a total revenue of ~$12B , the cap reduction will be spread across the next 4 seasons.

This is with the assumption that life returns to normal between now and 21 or further reductions in the cap will occur.


They can do nothing different cap wise than they could pre-covid.

Dead money due to cuts isn't part of that.

The rule on how dead money is its designated - Pre June 1 is all on the current years cap , Post June 1 its spread over two years.
I'm known for mathematics as in not doing it well so help me here. Using your numbers as an example, $5 billion loss for 2020 only for my question, spread over four years would be $1.25 billion loss to impact 2021 cap. That is a lot but wouldn't that be subtracted from 2019s $17.5 = $16.25 to determine cap? Would not that result in cap for 2020 being closer to 198 than 175?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
First off..... the o line

How does one add "meaness" to our linemen?

Those guys have no fire. Pass pro and especially on the run aspect
Tytus Howard former high school QB and basketball player was known for his 'nasty' streak three seasons at RT in college. Scharping moved from LT college to LG NFL which is somewhat different and IMO more suited to his strength. I expect him to do even better this his 2nd year at LG. He has given up zero sacks and zero penalties first four games. Not sure about today. That's mean enough for me. Tunsil 81 PFF pass blocking with also no sacks allowed or penalties. Nick Martin one sack zero penalties.
Fulton I'm not sure of.
I get what you are saying but more interested in results.
All aspects of the O were much better my opinion today and that was not all due to Jags.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Something jumped out at me while I watched the process of the Seattle Seahawks trade away 1st & 3rd round 2021 picks and 1st round 2022 pick. We don't know what these college guys are going to be like coming out over the next few years. A lot of college guys aren't playing right now. Some won't play even if their schools play again. The Seahawks traded away uncertain future guys for talent.

Now before you yell at me... I realize that O'B royally screwed this team with the trades and picks that he made. I hope that we get a GM in here that can assess the talent that we have and find a coach that can pull the most out of the guys on the field. RAC's presser the other day and the article I read talking about O'Brian's 'perfect practices' had me thinking a lot of guys were practicing with too much on their minds. "Gotta be perfect for Coach." These guys need the place to practice, make mistakes, correct them before they go on the field. As RAC said, 'build up the trust that the guy next to you is minding their gap and sticking to their assignment'. I think we'll see talent bloom on the field again now that the guys get to practice without worrying about screwing it up.

Back to my first point. The talent on the team should flourish. Does it suck to not have those young cap cheap picks? Sure. But what the hell is the 2021 draft and beyond going to produce if the college players aren't playing? I'll take the shot with the shaky talent and known quality of the vets over the inexperienced, not playing quality of the rookies over the next few years. The vets know their jobs are on the line and will work super hard to keep their jobs.

I'm not saying this is the best way to look at it. But it's my silver lining to seeing how cap strapped and royally screwed this team is at the moment. As a side note, RAC will not be our HC after 2021. I'm sure the dude is ready to retire and only stayed around to help Weaver in his first year as DC.
Good post. Not having first and second round picks in next draft is tough but what you point to is significant. My hope is the improvement I saw team-wide today will exponentially continue to increase this season. I still believe we should be able to get significant players with our third and two fourth round picks in 2021.

Still hoping Conley returns soon upgrading our corners.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Guys I'm pretty certain that won't be on the Texans in 2021 (and their cap savings):

Brandin Cooks ($12 million)
Benardrick McKinney ($7 million)
David Johnson ($6.9 million)
Duke Johnson ($5.1 million)
Brandon Dunn ($3.25 million)
Zach Fulton ($3 million)
Darren Fells ($2.3 million)
Randall Cobb (-$1.6 million)
Whitney Mercilus (-3 million)

That's a total cap savings of $35 million. That will take the edge off the the 2021 salary cap. There is another $7 million to be cleared with guys on contracts under $2 million. Other teams will be in similar situations, so there will be bargains to be had in free agency. And then there's JJ Watt and his $17.5 million cap hit. Will the new regime offer an extension at a lower cap number? Will they release him and let him play closer to home, closer to his bros, or closer to Hollywood?

The cap situation is not ideal. But not overwhelming to a GM and capologist that knows how the NFL works. Just have to hire these guys. That's all. :)
If Brandin Cooks continues to play as he did today I don't see him going anywhere. 8 of 12 targets for 161 yards and a TD.
 
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TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Interesting article on Jed Hughes of Korn Ferry who is helping the Texans with their search.



He was an assistant coach under Chuck Noll and Bud Grant.

Put together John Schneider and Pete Carroll in Seattle. Recommended Andy Reid to Chiefs.

Also recommended Chan Gailey to Cowboys.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Interesting article on Jed Hughes of Korn Ferry who is helping the Texans with their search.



He was an assistant coach under Chuck Noll and Bud Grant.

Put together John Schneider and Pete Carroll in Seattle. Recommended Andy Reid to Chiefs.

Also recommended Chan Gailey to Cowboys.
Isn't Jed the guy who found the oil under his land and moved his family to California?
 


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