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Rebuilding this team

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Yep. Just have to bite the bullet and endure a few years of cutting and accumulating talent and draft capital.

Of course, that all depends on making good hires for their front office, and the jury will be out on that for a while.

I was having a feeling of "beginning of the end" when Gaine was fired and they were embarrassed by the Caserio debacle. It just reeked of bush league moves. Championship organizations, or at least ones striving for it, rarely commit so many dumb and seemingly irrational mistakes.



Yep. QFT. And this is one of the inherent problems with these owners. They allow their emotional attachments and sentimentality to make very unqualified decisions about football operations.

It's one thing to make a mistake on a failed piece of merchandise or concourse restaurant. But they continue to let their inexperience infect the football side of things to their detriment.

Obviously, it's their right to do so as owners. However, it's also my right as a fan/customer to analyze their decisions and either applaud or point and laugh.
Point and laugh is the last thing these owners want ... That's why things like Gaine's firing never came with much explanation (that's a real embarrassment) and why media is at risk of losing their credentials for letting certain cats out of the bag (DHop) or being critical of the team / decisions - they are too busy worrying about marketing and image to give a damn about winning.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
According to OverTheCap we can save $40.2M by cutting 6 players.

David Johnson $6.9M
Nick Martin $6.2M
Brandin Cooks $12M
Bernardrick McKinney $7M
Zack Fulton $3M
Duke Johnson $5.1M


$40.2M isn't a bad chunk of change. I know this is most likely not completely accurate & we don't know what the cap will be next season... But these guys are probably on their way out. Maybe they can redo some contracts. But I don't think we'll be hurting much worse if we were to get rid of all of them.

Edit: I didn't even see the $17.5M we'd save by cutting/trading Jj Watt.

$57.5M after cutting Jj Watt
I could really get on board with these cuts. You could get 3 premium FA's and a couple of vet min guys in FA with 57.5 million.

I rebuild the defense with this $$$$. DT/Cover LB/CB1 in FA and spend my draft capital on a RB (In a good RB class) and an Oc. if they traded back into the 3rd to get both a starting RB/OG in the 3rd I would be happy. Also this is a good S class and there should be value their in the 3rd or 4th rd.

Rd. 3 Kylin Hill RB Miss St
Rd. 3 Trey Hill C/OG Georgia
Rd. 4 BPA
Rd. 5 traded to move up into the 3rd
Rd.6 BPA
Rd. 6 BPA
Rd.7 BPA

Somewhere I would try to find a S and some CB depth. The only thing that would be missing from this plan would be an edge or 2. but you cant fix everything that's wrong with this team in 1 offseason with limited draft capital.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Point and laugh is the last thing these owners want ... That's why things like Gaine's firing never came with much explanation (that's a real embarrassment) and why media is at risk of losing their credentials for letting certain cats out of the bag (DHop) or being critical of the team / decisions - they are too busy worrying about marketing and image to give a damn about winning.
Yep. I remember Vinny telling me many years ago that the reason Houston Texans, Inc. did not value the message board (and eventually closed it) was because they did not like having anything on their official website that was critical of the team.

And the opinions of fans tend to be messy and uncontrollable, especially when the front office makes itself a national laughing stock. The Texans wanted no part in that, to the point where they no long offer any avenue for fan perspectives.

But, it's just entertainment, so it's either going to dazzle me with it's brilliant success, or, my entertainment comes in the form of unintended humor. I certainly can't cry over any of it.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Point and laugh is the last thing these owners want ... That's why things like Gaine's firing never came with much explanation (that's a real embarrassment) and why media is at risk of losing their credentials for letting certain cats out of the bag (DHop) or being critical of the team / decisions - they are too busy worrying about marketing and image to give a damn about winning.
I've been saying this since 2010.

Posters laughed at me then. Many have come around to my way of thinking now.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Texans have a bevy of players that could be traded before November 3rd trade deadline should the next 3 weeks see no improvement post OB.

Injuries are happening like crazy and to top position players. Teams in serious contention for the playoffs could be looking to fill holes.

Watt (RD3), Mercilus (RD3), McKinney (RD4), Cunningham (RD4), Roby (RD3), Fuller (RD3), Cooks (RD2), Cobb (RD3), Stills (RD4), Martin (RD5). I'd do my dammdest to try and trade these assets before cutting them. Dead Money is going to be a black-eye one way or another......but if I could load up on RD3 picks or later for the 2021 draft during a short re-tooling, this may be a way to get it moving.

I'd definitely check with Watt as to where his preferences would be while assuring him the Texans would always re-sign him when he's ready to call it quits so he can officially retire as a player of the Texans.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Texans have a bevy of players that could be traded before November 3rd trade deadline should the next 3 weeks see no improvement post OB.

Injuries are happening like crazy and to top position players. Teams in serious contention for the playoffs could be looking to fill holes.

Watt (RD3), Mercilus (RD3), McKinney (RD4), Cunningham (RD4), Roby (RD3), Fuller (RD3), Cooks (RD2), Cobb (RD3), Stills (RD4), Martin (RD5). I'd do my dammdest to try and trade these assets before cutting them. Dead Money is going to be a black-eye one way or another......but if I could load up on RD3 picks or later for the 2021 draft during a short re-tooling, this may be a way to get it moving.

I'd definitely check with Watt as to where his preferences would be while assuring him the Texans would always re-sign him when he's ready to call it quits so he can officially retire as a player of the Texans.
We don't have the money to trade Mercilus, Cunningham, Roby, Cobb this year. Nobody is giving you a 3rd round pick for Fuller knowing we can't pay him next year.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
We don't have the money to trade Mercilus, Cunningham, Roby, Cobb this year. Nobody is giving you a 3rd round pick for Fuller knowing we can't pay him next year.
Fuller's value maybe determined on a team's playoff outlook and if they've lost a WR1 or WR2. This could set Fuller's value versus his upcoming free agency. There has been plenty players moved before the deadline that were essentially loaners until re-signed.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
According to OverTheCap we can save $40.2M by cutting 6 players.

David Johnson $6.9M
Nick Martin $6.2M
Brandin Cooks $12M
Bernardrick McKinney $7M
Zack Fulton $3M
Duke Johnson $5.1M


$40.2M isn't a bad chunk of change. I know this is most likely not completely accurate & we don't know what the cap will be next season... But these guys are probably on their way out. Maybe they can redo some contracts. But I don't think we'll be hurting much worse if we were to get rid of all of them.

Edit: I didn't even see the $17.5M we'd save by cutting/trading Jj Watt.

$57.5M after cutting Jj Watt

Currently they are at 194.5m with 38 players under contract which is 19.5m over the estimated 2021 cap.

Cutting / trading those gets them to ~137m with 31 players under contract. 38m to spend filling 24 roster spots. They may have to cut a little deeper ....

Two deals I wish they could get out from under are Mercilus and Tunsil. Both are vastly overpaid for their impact. Mercilus is all but impossible to cut because of dead money but a trade isn't nearly so bad at 4.65m dead money pre June 1. Post June 1 that's spread over 2 years 1.55 in 2021 & 3.1 in 22.
They can't do anything with Tunsil until 2023 .... they are stuck with that one.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Currently they are at 194.5m with 38 players under contract which is 19.5m over the estimated 2021 cap.

Cutting / trading those gets them to ~137m with 31 players under contract. 38m to spend filling 24 roster spots. They may have to cut a little deeper ....
Not arguing, but OverTheCap is saying different. They're saying we're $6M over.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
If this team hires a good coach they'll be fine.
Not having a 1st and 2nd mattered more when OB was coach since he cant develop talent and has to buy it.

With a coach that develops players this team has enough to compete for now.
This makes zero sense; actually, the exact opposite of what you stated above is the case.

Not having a 1st and 2nd rounder mattered LESS when OB was coach, not more. If he cant develop talent, as you said, how would it matter that he wasn't able to draft any talent to develop?

Now, the new coach that can presumably develop talent much better, has no premium draft picks from 2019-2021 to even develop. That will hurt. Badly.
 

KarlK

Waterboy
You really don’t have to rebuild anything. We just need a HC who will come in a push these guys to play to their strengths. Who is going to actually know the rules works and etc.


A GM who will be on the same page as his HC/OC and DC. He will bring in players to fit the systems that will be employed.
Yeah, great call. Besides rb, ol, te, dl, lb, cb and s.....no need to rebuild any position on this roster. It's just chock full of talent.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
This makes zero sense; actually, the exact opposite of what you stated above is the case.

Not having a 1st and 2nd rounder mattered LESS when OB was coach, not more. If he cant develop talent, as you said, how would it matter that he wasn't able to draft any talent to develop?

Now, the new coach that can presumably develop talent much better, has no premium draft picks from 2019-2021 to even develop. That will hurt. Badly.

I was going to respond, but I'll just let you think about that for a second.

Edit: Actually, screw it...you seem like the type that won't get it so I'll go ahead and break it down.

If a coach can identify and develop talent then that means he may be able to get more out of mid to later round draft picks vs a guy who can't and gets basically nothing out of those picks.
 
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KarlK

Waterboy
I was going to respond, but I'll just let you think about that for a second.

Edit: Actually, screw it...you seem like the type that won't get it so I'll go ahead and break it down.

If a coach can identify and develop talent then that means he may be able to get more out of mid to later round draft picks vs a guy who can't and gets basically nothing out of those picks.
You specifically mentioned first and second rounders, not mid rounders. So, again, using the parameters YOU put out there, a guy who CAN develop talent is more harmed by not having first or second rounders than a guy who CANNOT.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
WFV .... man I just don't know what to think. He's a great #2 when he's healthy - emphasis on when. I just can't see giving him a big money contract because of the history.

Cooks has no dead money next year and isn't exactly setting the world on fire this season.
He's replaceable for less IMO. Question is would he prefer being cut over restructuring and picking his next team ?? I don't see them paying him $12m next year ....


Watt - Just not worth the cost for this team 15m this season and 17.5 next year. If it were up to me , I'd trade him for whatever draft assets I could get right now. I'm sure some contender might take him as a year and a half rental thinking he puts them over the top.

I'd also shop McKinney & Mercilus just to clear the cap space for 2022 and beyond. Both could be replaced much cheaper .... Just have to hope some contender thinks they can help them.
I understand your point with Watt but for me his play if continued needs to bring us at minimum a high second round or a comparable starter at another need position like WR or corner. His cap space only helps if we can bring someone in and I do not see anyone out there today.

October 29th is NFL trade deadline.....
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
You specifically mentioned first and second rounders, not mid rounders. So, again, using the parameters YOU put out there, a guy who CAN develop talent is more harmed by not having first or second rounders than a guy who CANNOT.
Thanks for outing yourself as a troll. Bye.
 

En1gma57

Waterboy
If this team hires a good coach they'll be fine.
Not having a 1st and 2nd mattered more when OB was coach since he cant develop talent and has to buy it.

With a coach that develops players this team has enough to compete for now.
Hoodie has probably proven that idea more than anyone. NE or not he can find and develop talent as good or better than anyone. And yes you are right a good HC and a GM who are on the same page can win now. Maybe not a SB yet but a playoff spot and a win or 2 in them from the 3rd round guys
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
I understand your point with Watt but for me his play if continued needs to bring us at minimum a high second round or a comparable starter at another need position like WR or corner. His cap space only helps if we can bring someone in and I do not see anyone out there today.

October 29th is NFL trade deadline.....
I don't see any NFL team giving up a RD2 pick for Watt in 2021. If you gave up Watt for a 2022 RD2.....maybe there's a buyer out there. If the team wants an immediate return in 2021, RD3 is probably the best offer the team gets.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Currently they are at 194.5m with 38 players under contract which is 19.5m over the estimated 2021 cap.

Cutting / trading those gets them to ~137m with 31 players under contract. 38m to spend filling 24 roster spots. They may have to cut a little deeper ....

Two deals I wish they could get out from under are Mercilus and Tunsil. Both are vastly overpaid for their impact. Mercilus is all but impossible to cut because of dead money but a trade isn't nearly so bad at 4.65m dead money pre June 1. Post June 1 that's spread over 2 years 1.55 in 2021 & 3.1 in 22.
They can't do anything with Tunsil until 2023 .... they are stuck with that one.
I'm glad they're stuck with Tunsil until 2023.

They are not going to be able to get rid of Mercilus anytime soon, no team is going to take on that contract. I would give a 6th to get rid of that contract.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Not arguing, but OverTheCap is saying different. They're saying we're $6M over.

Not much difference in what they show spending to be and both show 38 players under contract - Spotrac $194,465,143 OTC $190,683,114 .

My guess is the difference in where they believe the cap to be for 2021.
 

Scooter

Funky
If done right, we eat 2021 as a loss. Don't get too aggressive in any direction, clear obvious cap casualties ahead of time (for picks where possible), and re-establish our core, though I'm not sure we really have the requisite 8-12 players that should be an NFL 'core'. No major moves or trying to turn back time, know that there's a lot of work to do and forcing it creates more problems.

With Watt past his prime, we have no marquee players on defense. Set nearly everyone up for the trash heap that hurts our future cap. Then get busy with the ugly signings. This was something Rick Smith did really well - start cherry picking defensive players for basement level 2-3 year contracts as they're cut and keep an eye on every tryout.

Offense has Watson and bookend offensive linemen(ish). O'Brien inherited the Yankees and we're trying to rebuild the Royals. Like the defense, be aggressive signing mid-season castoffs for 2-3 year deals (with no guarantees) - focusing on the biggest offensive linemen the league has to offer. We're in a transition and coaching 302lb first round stars isn't an option ... 6'2" 350lb guards with slow feet and worse hands are how we ugly our way through the void as our new GM and coaching staff acquire talent and establish themselves.

From there ... we'll see. It's not a pretty picture, but this game is built around the quarterback, and we've got that. As long as we don't do something epically stupid like hire McDaniels, I think a good coach and management can get us back to at least competence by 2022 and competitive in 2023.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Isn't this supposedly what Obrien did for this season?:thinking: as far as the bringing in the vets goes.
Nah, he didn't. Logan Ryan, Everson Griffin, Snacks Harrison are all better than their counterparts on the Texans. They could've been had for cheap and provide production and depth. Logan Ryan in particular would be the best player in the Texans secondary. Snacks could've replaced Reader and Griffin down year produced 8 sacks which is better than Whitney. Remind me again who they added on defense?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I was going to respond, but I'll just let you think about that for a second.

Edit: Actually, screw it...you seem like the type that won't get it so I'll go ahead and break it down.

If a coach can identify and develop talent then that means he may be able to get more out of mid to later round draft picks vs a guy who can't and gets basically nothing out of those picks.
Yep! Owen Daniel's, Chris Meyers, and Foster were 5th rd and undrafted players. Look at 49ers and Kittles and the running back. Kelce 3rd and Tyreke 5rd picks
 
Fuller's value maybe determined on a team's playoff outlook and if they've lost a WR1 or WR2. This could set Fuller's value versus his upcoming free agency. There has been plenty players moved before the deadline that were essentially loaners until re-signed.
Except Fuller has never completed a season and I'm not sure he's even put a 5 game streak together. If I'm a team heading into the playoffs the last thing I want is to put eggs into a basket that may break the first time its picked up.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Except Fuller has never completed a season and I'm not sure he's even put a 5 game streak together. If I'm a team heading into the playoffs the last thing I want is to put eggs into a basket that may break the first time its picked up.

Really depends upon what other WR's are on the market and how many teams think they are a quality WR away from being real contenders.

I think they can move him for "a draft asset" .... how high that is remains to be seen.


Also , after reading McNair's comments , I have to question whether or not they think a rebuild is what's required. It appears he thinks he has a good team ... so they may go the duct tape and bailing wire approach and none of these players we are talking about moving out for assets are going anywhere.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yep! Owen Daniel's, Chris Meyers, and Foster were 5th rd and undrafted players. Look at 49ers and Kittles and the running back. Kelce 3rd and Tyreke 5rd picks
Kittle had injury issues coming out of college. Kelce/Hill had character issues but the Chiefs took chances on them and were rewarded with a Lombardi. Of course Reid doesn't have to worry about the Not Texans Worthy edict from ownership and I've been saying since 2010 that this philosophy has to change if the Texans want to ever win a championship. Why? Because the teams that are beating the crap out of the Texans are taking chances on those kinds of guys.

Example: The Texans need pass rushers in the worst way, Aldon Smith/Griffen would be huge upgrades over Mercilus. But they're Not Texans Worthy.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Also , after reading McNair's comments , I have to question whether or not they think a rebuild is what's required. It appears he thinks he has a good team ... so they may go the duct tape and bailing wire approach and none of these players we are talking about moving out for assets are going anywhere.
With our cap situation, we've got to do something with these players. Let them go, maybe get a compensatory pick, or try to get more for them now. As far as Fuller is concerned, we either resign him or trade him before the deadline.
 
Really depends upon what other WR's are on the market and how many teams think they are a quality WR away from being real contenders.

I think they can move him for "a draft asset" .... how high that is remains to be seen.


Also , after reading McNair's comments , I have to question whether or not they think a rebuild is what's required. It appears he thinks he has a good team ... so they may go the duct tape and bailing wire approach and none of these players we are talking about moving out for assets are going anywhere.
It may also be a case of go to war with the army you have and him not wanting to rock the boat any more just as the season starts. He may also be preemptively passing the buck to the new future GM so then they are the bad guy. Or it could be he really feels that way. I don't know I still can't read Cal. He didn't fire BoB before or after blowing the lead in the playoffs, multiple ones, or trading Hopkins for a sandwich but he does after losing to the defending SB champion, two very good teams and one team that is basically same boat as us? I agree with the action its just the timing of it that confuses the hell out of me. Even if JJ was having issues with BoB he's not the first franchise player to have issues with him and I can't believe this is the first time even JJ has had issues with him. Would really be curious as to what actually broke the camel's back.
 
Kittle had injury issues coming out of college. Kelce/Hill had character issues but the Chiefs took chances on them and were rewarded with a Lombardi. Of course Reid doesn't have to worry about the Not Texans Worthy edict from ownership and I've been saying since 2010 that this philosophy has to change if the Texans want to ever win a championship. Why? Because the teams that are beating the crap out of the Texans are taking chances on those kinds of guys.

Example: The Texans need pass rushers in the worst way, Aldon Smith/Griffen would be huge upgrades over Mercilus. But they're Not Texans Worthy.
I'm not sure the "Not Texan's worthy" motto still holds and also it was never the McNair's that said that it was Matt Schaub and given he was talking about Ndamukong Suh right after the guy had kicked him in the groin I can't say I blame or disagree with him. Also Kelce and Hill may have worked out for the Chiefs but there are just as many if not more examples of character issue players blowing up in a team's face. Look at the Browns and the Divas they have, Raiders grabbed players that should have been banned from the NFL and how has that worked out for them, even the Pats bailed out of the AB experiment after just one game. Talent alone is not enough they also have to fit with the team and if the team says no then you have to take that into consideration in a big way like when they said no to Earl Thomas.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I understand your point with Watt but for me his play if continued needs to bring us at minimum a high second round or a comparable starter at another need position like WR or corner. His cap space only helps if we can bring someone in and I do not see anyone out there today.

October 29th is NFL trade deadline.....
Now into his thirties and with a history of very severe injuries dunno how we'd get more than a third round pick for him today ?
It'd be pretty cool to see 99 in a Packers uni, give us Texans fans a team to pull for in this years P/Os.
 

welsh texan

All Pro
I have to imagine we could trade Watt instead of cutting him
At $15.5m this year and $17.5m next year none of which is guaranteed, I’d tend to think this would require JJ to be willing to renegotiate to a much lower salary for any team to be interested.

Would the likes of Mercilus, McKinney, Cunningham be trade bait if we could eat some of their contract this year and next to make it more enticing for a prospective team?

Anyone else with potential trade value that would help our medium term cap problems?
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I'm not sure the "Not Texan's worthy" motto still holds and also it was never the McNair's that said that it was Matt Schaub and given he was talking about Ndamukong Suh right after the guy had kicked him in the groin I can't say I blame or disagree with him. Also Kelce and Hill may have worked out for the Chiefs but there are just as many if not more examples of character issue players blowing up in a team's face. Look at the Browns and the Divas they have, Raiders grabbed players that should have been banned from the NFL and how has that worked out for them, even the Pats bailed out of the AB experiment after just one game. Talent alone is not enough they also have to fit with the team and if the team says no then you have to take that into consideration in a big way like when they said no to Earl Thomas.
Well said. There are more cases of "character issue" guys failing in this league, rather than succeeding. KC also draws the line somewhere, as they released Kareem Hunt and traded away Marcus Peters.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I’d keep Cunningham. Merciless and McKinney can go.

I totally agree player wise .... but we're probably stuck with Mercilus because there's so damn much dead money either trade or cut - even next year.

McKinney is just a one down player in todays NFL , don't think you can trade him with his contract value when teams can get that type of production from the average player on his rookie deal.

Maybe a new DC can help Cunningham reach his potential ... but I don't like the contract in a normal year and when you factor in Covid economics .... its just terrible.

I guess if you are going to eat those cap hits , this is the time to do it , clear the decks for a new HC/GM but its still a lot of $$$.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
It may also be a case of go to war with the army you have and him not wanting to rock the boat any more just as the season starts. He may also be preemptively passing the buck to the new future GM so then they are the bad guy. Or it could be he really feels that way. I don't know I still can't read Cal. He didn't fire BoB before or after blowing the lead in the playoffs, multiple ones, or trading Hopkins for a sandwich but he does after losing to the defending SB champion, two very good teams and one team that is basically same boat as us? I agree with the action its just the timing of it that confuses the hell out of me. Even if JJ was having issues with BoB he's not the first franchise player to have issues with him and I can't believe this is the first time even JJ has had issues with him. Would really be curious as to what actually broke the camel's back.
From what I gather , the expectations internally were high going into this season. They believe this team is a contender and that most of the problems went out the door with OB.

They are looking at their $160m QB with a QBR of ~53 and believing he and the team are much better than that.
Apparently they believe they can salvage this season ...

If you ask me , I think that's a mistake. This roster has holes all over the place and quite a few bloated contracts that will further hinder the new regime that's already going to be hamstrung with no quality draft picks.

If there ever was a time to prepare for the future , this is it - jettison anyone who isn't part of the future , eat those cap hits in this lost season and rebuild from the ground up.

Duct tape and bailing wire leads to more of the same - mediocrity at best.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
With our cap situation, we've got to do something with these players. Let them go, maybe get a compensatory pick, or try to get more for them now. As far as Fuller is concerned, we either resign him or trade him before the deadline.

I think that list of cuts you made the other day is a likely starting point for the offseason (minus Watt). There may be a couple more that we've overlooked too.

As for Fuller .... what would you be comfortable paying him and would that be more or less than some other team since he's UFA? I really don't know what his value is because of the injury history.
Stills is $9m this year and grossly overpaid , Fuller's the better player but I wouldn't give him a long term deal at that rate.


If you can't move him for at least a #3 now , I think you let him walk and get a comp pick for your troubles unless he signs on the cheap and I'm talking in the $5-6m range.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Except Fuller has never completed a season and I'm not sure he's even put a 5 game streak together. If I'm a team heading into the playoffs the last thing I want is to put eggs into a basket that may break the first time its picked up.
.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We don't know what we know until we try. A team projecting towards the playoffs and in need of a WR could look differently on Fuller if he's still suiting up before the deadline.
 

texanhead08

All Pro
According to under the cap we can get to 21 mill under by making these moves

CUT
Watt
Cooks
David Johnson

I think you also need to look at moving Mckinney in trade or just cut him we have too much money tied up in LB's that don't make plays.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well said. There are more cases of "character issue" guys failing in this league, rather than succeeding. KC also draws the line somewhere, as they released Kareem Hunt and traded away Marcus Peters.
Hunt had character issues well before the Chiefs cut him. They were forced to do so because TMZ released the video.

But the Chiefs have a history of looking the other way about this stuff until it becomes too obvious to ignore.

I'd lke to see some actual numbers about the claim that more character issue players fail than succeed. This league has been very forgiving over the years, all things considered.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Kittle had injury issues coming out of college. Kelce/Hill had character issues but the Chiefs took chances on them and were rewarded with a Lombardi. Of course Reid doesn't have to worry about the Not Texans Worthy edict from ownership and I've been saying since 2010 that this philosophy has to change if the Texans want to ever win a championship. Why? Because the teams that are beating the crap out of the Texans are taking chances on those kinds of guys.

Example: The Texans need pass rushers in the worst way, Aldon Smith/Griffen would be huge upgrades over Mercilus. But they're Not Texans Worthy.
No arguments. At the very least, they could've let Merci go and sign Clay who was more productive.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Fuller's value maybe determined on a team's playoff outlook and if they've lost a WR1 or WR2. This could set Fuller's value versus his upcoming free agency. There has been plenty players moved before the deadline that were essentially loaners until re-signed.
And who’s going to make those trades, the guy holding hands with OB on all the horrible deals they’ve already done?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Now into his thirties and with a history of very severe injuries dunno how we'd get more than a third round pick for him today ?
It'd be pretty cool to see 99 in a Packers uni, give us Texans fans a team to pull for in this years P/Os.
It is not that I disagree with you, I am saying if he brings 8-10 sacks, 20-25 QB hits, 25-30 ish tackles he will be worth more to us than a round three pick. He is on pace to give us those stats. Also if he remains healthy, I think his value goes up next three games before trade deadline.
 

BullRushTX

Practice Squad
I have to imagine we could trade Watt instead of cutting him
We already have the worst running game in the league, so cutting Johnson and Johnson isn't bad. Fulton is awful. Martin is mediocre. Cooks is too expensive. I like McKinney, but $7 mil for a thumper is too high. I like those ideas. Too bad we can't cut bait on Murray, Cobb, and Mercilus.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I think that list of cuts you made the other day is a likely starting point for the offseason (minus Watt). There may be a couple more that we've overlooked too.

As for Fuller .... what would you be comfortable paying him and would that be more or less than some other team since he's UFA? I really don't know what his value is because of the injury history.
Stills is $9m this year and grossly overpaid , Fuller's the better player but I wouldn't give him a long term deal at that rate.


If you can't move him for at least a #3 now , I think you let him walk and get a comp pick for your troubles unless he signs on the cheap and I'm talking in the $5-6m range.
Stills n Fuller don't brings us enough in trade by the 29th, we might get something as a Comp?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
We already have the worst running game in the league, so cutting Johnson and Johnson isn't bad. Fulton is awful. Martin is mediocre. Cooks is too expensive. I like McKinney, but $7 mil for a thumper is too high. I like those ideas. Too bad we can't cut bait on Murray, Cobb, and Mercilus.
I want to see more of Cobb as I think at 16+yard avg he could be very good for Watson in slot and add more plays for him and TE Akins.
 


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