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QBs in this draft class.
- Thread starter 76Texan
- Start date
badboy
Hall of Fame
While I agree with your statement, I think the arguement is to find his successor. An NFL QB, other than an elite like Luck, takes some time to develop.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I think Tannehill or Cousins could, but Tannehill definitely needs a surrounding cast better than the one he has now. I'd like him to come and sit a few years here and then play. Cousins, on the other hand... could possibly start for us. I absolutely love the player, was high on him last year and was kinda disappointed that the Skins got him even though they got RGIII.
JMO but I don't like USC QBs, would not touch Barkley. Geno is probably gone to the Chiefs. I personally think Wilson is the surest bet in this draft. Geno seems like a bit of a flash in the pan for me. If not... maybe Dysert or Nassib, and a later pick on Bray (maybe Kubes can coach him up, because dude's got the physical tools).
Doppelganger
None
Size. 6'6 230lbs is a big boy. He has a big arm and mowed down inferior competition. He is Ryan Mallet without the potential baggage. He also has significant accuracy issues and makes questionable decisions. Size will make him a first rounder. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the first 3 QBs taken.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
They're going to hype somebody, even though this class is weak. I think 2012 3rd rounders will be 2013 1st round selections..
NCTexan
Veteran
This is what confuses me. He struggled against good teams, and sucked against some bad ones, like the UVa game. 3 INTs against their secondary is awful.
Do you think he should be in the top 3 QBs?
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't really know what to tell you. Barkley is not the same person as Lienart, Palmer, John David Booty or Sanchez. Sure that's a poor list of NFL QBs from USC, but you can't evaluate a guy on things that have nothing to do with him. If you want to say that everyone might be underestimating Barkley simply because his headcoach is a moron, or everyone could be overrating him due to poor competition, great pass protection, or his top notch WRs, I can understand that. But don't fault the guy just because of the school he came from.
I like Barkley as a steal this draft. I think he could be there at #27 and is worthy of a trade up if necessary. Barkley was hurt this past season and that has affected his draft stock immensely. There's a lot to like about him:
- Excellent high school resume. His coach loved him and let him call plays at the LOS on his own back then.
- Four year starter at USC, first true freshman QB to start the first game of the season at USC.
- He has a good arm with a range of 55-60 yards in the air
- He played in a pro-style offense at USC and took a lot of snaps under center
- I think he has good footwork, but others around here are better suited at evaluating that
- I like watching him go through progressions on longer plays. He at least does a decent job of this, but I do see a lot of one read throws. Might be the play calling, not sure.
- I have seen him roll out on play action naked bootlegs many times and make the plays down field or even tuck the ball and run for positive yards
- He looks good at evading tackles, not Vick or RG3-like, but Tony Romo evasiveness. That's a huge upgrade from Schaub, and it allows him to extend plays.
- I have seen him directing receivers on broken plays where he rolled out and found an open man to hit while extending the play and keeping his eyes downfield. I really like seeing that.
- I love his touch passes to the sidelines. Something the Texans sorely lack with Matt Schaub is that he does not have a clue how to drop a pass on a WR's outside shoulder down the sideline or in the corner of the end zone. Barkley seems to have knack for hitting the outside shoulder of the receiver on short and mid range routes, which makes it more difficult to intercept his throws.
- He was the starting QB of a big school, which put a lot of pressure on him and will make him more ready for the scrutiny of an NFL QB position.
- Is above average (at least) at throwing on the run, which he does quite a bit on bootlegs. That fits well with the Texans' offense.
- He can run if needed, he ran a few QB draws or playaction fakes that lead to him rolling out and running with the ball to get a first down or at least a few yards.
- Good pump fake
- Pretty good about getting rid of the ball when under a lot of pressure.
- Clean character, devout Christian and lots of charity work. Kind of a Tebow-lite in this aspect, but not as in-your-face about it, nor as creepy.
Cons:
Lots of passes in the USC offense are short routes and screens. He's good at getting them the ball, but they don't always go very far. A few too many checkdowns for my liking.
2012 was clearly a worse year than his 2011 performance. He may have regressed a bit, but I'm not sure why. Had pretty poor o-line protection in 2012, so I think that may be the big difference. Matt Kalil drafted last year, and their replacement LT doesn't look anywhere near as good. His center and guards were pretty poor in a few games. I hope nobody mocks any of the USC o-line to us...
Injuries - Missed 4 games out of 51 potential starts in his four year career. Has had some shoulder injuries prior to the one his senior year.
Height 6'1 1/2 - Some sites list him as 6'2. I wouldn't be worried about it.
Date of birth: September 8, 1990 (age 22) - Still kind of young, but he has been starting at QB since high school.
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Señor Stan
El Guapo
We do have some chips to move up...I know you can't trade comp picks, but you CAN trade your own. We could trade our 3rd and 5th rounders and still have picks at the end of those rounds.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Yep. If he could have waited, he'd be a Chief in a few months.Russell Wilson, wasn't he a 2012 3rd rounder?
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Yep. If he could have waited, he'd be a Chief in a few months.
He would've gotten passed up in favor of guys who are bigger than him, just like in 2012.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
More info on Matt Barkley from ESPN:
Height 6'2
228 pounds
4.9 40 yard dash time
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/29232/matt-barkley
Personal life info from Wiki (sounds like Bob McNair's type of player):
Height 6'2
228 pounds
4.9 40 yard dash time
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/29232/matt-barkley
Personal life info from Wiki (sounds like Bob McNair's type of player):
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
A little light on content, but...
2013 NFL Draft: Is There a Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson to Be Found?
2013 NFL Draft: Is There a Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson to Be Found?
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
While I appreciate all the effort here guys (especially since I saw almost zero college ball this season) I can't help but take the devils advocate approach...
You guys are focusing on the qb's we SHOULD be looking at and not the qb kubiak will be looking at.
Kubiak had an average arm and wheels. That's what he wants.
Find me an unknown qb who:
Is a yes man
3 year or better starter
Not a plus arm
Not a plus leader
Not plus mobility
Even keel demeanor
Comming off injury
Former tight end
Kubiak takes pride indirectly showing us his success is because of his "brilliant" scheme and not overwhelming talent. I believe a vick type talent could be available and Kube would skip him if he didnt trust him. Find me someone mediocre with no ceiling.
You guys are focusing on the qb's we SHOULD be looking at and not the qb kubiak will be looking at.
Kubiak had an average arm and wheels. That's what he wants.
Find me an unknown qb who:
Is a yes man
3 year or better starter
Not a plus arm
Not a plus leader
Not plus mobility
Even keel demeanor
Comming off injury
Former tight end
Kubiak takes pride indirectly showing us his success is because of his "brilliant" scheme and not overwhelming talent. I believe a vick type talent could be available and Kube would skip him if he didnt trust him. Find me someone mediocre with no ceiling.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think the closest you will get to that is Landry Jones, and he will probably be there in the 3rd for us. If I was predicting who the Texans will pick in this next draft (if they take a QB at all), it would be Jones.
And I really do not want Jones. We have Yates. If we're drafting a QB he should have franchise potential i.e., Barkley, Bray, maybe Dysert, maybe Wilson.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I don't really know what to tell you. Barkley is not the same person as Lienart, Palmer, John David Booty or Sanchez. Sure that's a poor list of NFL QBs from USC, but you can't evaluate a guy on things that have nothing to do with him. If you want to say that everyone might be underestimating Barkley simply because his headcoach is a moron, or everyone could be overrating him due to poor competition, great pass protection, or his top notch WRs, I can understand that. But don't fault the guy just because of the school he came from.
I like Barkley as a steal this draft. I think he could be there at #27 and is worthy of a trade up if necessary. Barkley was hurt this past season and that has affected his draft stock immensely. There's a lot to like about him:
- Excellent high school resume. His coach loved him and let him call plays at the LOS on his own back then.
- Four year starter at USC, first true freshman QB to start the first game of the season at USC.
- He has a good arm with a range of 55-60 yards in the air
- He played in a pro-style offense at USC and took a lot of snaps under center
- I think he has good footwork, but others around here are better suited at evaluating that
- I like watching him go through progressions on longer plays. He at least does a decent job of this, but I do see a lot of one read throws. Might be the play calling, not sure.
- I have seen him roll out on play action naked bootlegs many times and make the plays down field or even tuck the ball and run for positive yards
- He looks good at evading tackles, not Vick or RG3-like, but Tony Romo evasiveness. That's a huge upgrade from Schaub, and it allows him to extend plays.
- I have seen him directing receivers on broken plays where he rolled out and found an open man to hit while extending the play and keeping his eyes downfield. I really like seeing that.
- I love his touch passes to the sidelines. Something the Texans sorely lack with Matt Schaub is that he does not have a clue how to drop a pass on a WR's outside shoulder down the sideline or in the corner of the end zone. Barkley seems to have knack for hitting the outside shoulder of the receiver on short and mid range routes, which makes it more difficult to intercept his throws.
- He was the starting QB of a big school, which put a lot of pressure on him and will make him more ready for the scrutiny of an NFL QB position.
- Is above average (at least) at throwing on the run, which he does quite a bit on bootlegs. That fits well with the Texans' offense.
- He can run if needed, he ran a few QB draws or playaction fakes that lead to him rolling out and running with the ball to get a first down or at least a few yards.
- Good pump fake
- Pretty good about getting rid of the ball when under a lot of pressure.
- Clean character, devout Christian and lots of charity work. Kind of a Tebow-lite in this aspect, but not as in-your-face about it, nor as creepy.
Cons:
Lots of passes in the USC offense are short routes and screens. He's good at getting them the ball, but they don't always go very far. A few too many checkdowns for my liking.
2012 was clearly a worse year than his 2011 performance. He may have regressed a bit, but I'm not sure why. Had pretty poor o-line protection in 2012, so I think that may be the big difference. Matt Kalil drafted last year, and their replacement LT doesn't look anywhere near as good. His center and guards were pretty poor in a few games. I hope nobody mocks any of the USC o-line to us...
Injuries - Missed 4 games out of 51 potential starts in his four year career. Has had some shoulder injuries prior to the one his senior year.
Height 6'1 1/2 - Some sites list him as 6'2. I wouldn't be worried about it.
Date of birth: September 8, 1990 (age 22) - Still kind of young, but he has been starting at QB since high school.
I suppose it's just superstition on my part, then... little leery of that school. In any case, it's not like Matt Barkley sucks. He's got the tools, but something fell apart this season for him. Either his team let him down or the other way around, but I'll leave Rick Smith and the scouts to judge whether that was on him or his team.
Though... Barkley in the first, Robert Woods in the second? Sounds pretty nice, actually. I won't knock him on his height (after Russell Wilson's season I don't think anyone will knock on height). I'm worried about the checkdowns. I hope that's not his mentality, because I'm afraid Kubes would just rein him in with the checkdowns and we'd end up with Matt Schaub II. I like that he's effective rolling out of the pocket, though. That's one thing I don't like about Schaub is that too often he looks for the little five yard dumpoff even on designed rollouts and when he's pressured out the pocket, it's basically a throw to the sidelines every single time. If Barkley was good for 15-30 yards on even the well executed plays (because more and more often Schaub is not) he'd be good at moving the chains for us.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Sounds like Texans are getting more serious about taking a QB earlier than expected. So guess we have to really consider options?
2nd/3rd rd. Zac Dysert anyone?
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2012/12/18/3780098/scouting-the-draft-qb-zac-dysert
2nd/3rd rd. Zac Dysert anyone?
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2012/12/18/3780098/scouting-the-draft-qb-zac-dysert
I'm sorry, what is it that makes you think the Texans are serious about taking a QB early?
How does this Dysert guy compare to Tj Yates' scouting report?
I love Dysert. If he's there in the third and the Texans took him I'd be excited...
beerlover
Hall of Fame
http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/01/30/texans-could-draft-a-quarterback-high/
there was quite a bit of talk actually a whole segment on this topic. Here was just a quick blurb from Hub Arkush. I will say this much, if Texans feel that bpa is a QB sitting there #27 or there is a QB they covet little later, maybe trade down not to loose a selection doing so, that would be optimum IMO.
For argument sake, lets say it is Dysert, ok. 3rd rd. grade right? Trade out of the first & nail down ILB without over drafting position, lets just say Minter, LSU. In exchange you pick up another teams 3rd rd. pick, Texans could use that pick on Dysert (early to mid) before their own pick to ensure they get him. Texans would still have two third round picks they could use or trade again, so on & so on. It can happen their are multiple options open to creative minds & Rick Smith has proven, IMO, the ability to bring in talent needed.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I did not like how he played. The majority of his completions were checkdowns to the RB. He rarely went downfield.
Hasn't that been a board criticism of Schaub for years?
Dysert is better than he showed at the senior bowl. I agree he looked bad but he does have some good skills. That said I'm not sold on any of the Qb's in this draft class anymore. I would just pass on the Qb's and hope for McCarron next year.
It's difficult to make an assessment of a QB from an all star game, or a combine. Especially a game where the o-lines were manhandled by the d-lines. What you can see is if his natural ability pops out. I didn't see anything from Dysert that popped out at the Senior Bowl. But, Tom Brady didn't pop out at the Shrine game, and was drafted in the 6th round.
QB is such a tough position to project in the NFL. You need someone in the organization that really knows what they're looking at when scouting college QBs. I don't know if the Texans have that guy.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Well, too bad there's OB prospects aren't as good as last year. Maybe next year. Let's see what TJ and Case bring us on table next year. Perhaps, this is the year for us to look for #2WR in early rounds?
I really like Bray, but this may be the yr that the Texans fill a bunch of holes and look for another QB next yr. In fact I believe that's the way to go, starting with WR2.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Yeah, if we give Matt an another weapon at WR, he should be a little more productive than 2012. I was wondering if we maybe able to trade Tate for 2nd rd if there's willing trading partner. In this way, we will have 5 picks (assuming we get comp 3rd for MW) from 1st to 3rd and should be able to fill the most of holes. I would like for us to address the following positions early. WR, NT, LB, DE, S, T. We can fill 5 holes out of 6 by 3rd rd. But I won't be surprised if Kube go after tall TE. I am also interested in Lattimore to see how far he falls due to injury. If he falls to Mid rd, we should at least take a good look.
We've discussed this before and in a trade Tate will bring a 4th at best and more likely a 5th round pick. At this point we might as well hang onto him hopeing that he performs well in a contract year in which he's auditioning for all the teams in the NFL and then let him walk in FA and get our comp. pick the next year. We're going to have to settle for filling only 4 team holes with our picks unless Rick makes some trades. As for Lattimore I'd maybe sign him as an UDFA but only if the doctors examine and approve him. This isn't his first knee injury, and as I understand it he blew out everything in that knee. I think his hopes for an NFL career are slim.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Yep, perhaps it would be better for us to keep him and hope for the best unless, there's a player Rick likes in the 4th or 5th rd and able to find a trading partner. Too bad for Lattimore. If he blew out everything in his knee like D Davis (Williams), only UDFA is the way to go. At least we have a chance to fill 4 holes with our 1~3rd rd picks which ain't that bad. Hope, we draft the right ones.
Hopefully Gary/Wade/Rick do a better job than they have in past yrs and can find some sleepers in the later rds. Like McCain for example.
If you think they can only find good players in rds 1-3 then they should trade up using picks in rds 4/5/7 to move up into rd 3.
This way the Texans would have picks in rd 1/2/ three in rd 3/rd 5 comp pick and rd 6. I'm a quality over quantity guy, Trading the picks to move up and select players that have a higher % of success.
Rick/Gary/Wade thought just the opposite last yr and instead of trading up for a WR like Hill they traded down and took Posey. Differing philosophies not saying which one is right, but Rick hasn't really ever hit on a big time player in the later rds. Say like a Stevie Johnson/Antonio Brown/Alex Boone type of player. So trading up seems logical to me.
Plus they have alot of picks so most of the later rd picks should have a slim chance of making the team.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I do not think so. signed Duane Brown. lol
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Arian Foster doesn't count? How about GQ? OD (not sure if he was before Smith)? Mike Brisiel?
There was a poll on one of the Vols site.
42% think that Bray is a backup NfL QB
32% think that he's not NFL material.
Talent, yes.
Brain, no.
I've been watching some Bama games, mainly to look at the RT Fluker.
He mostly dominated LSU the last two years.
During Senior Bowl practice, he looked a little weak in pass pro.
It showed here and there in some games, too.
But overall, I would be comfortable if the Texans draft him (I haven't watched much of the other OTs yet, however).
The TE 89 Michael Williams is a big guy.
He looks really really good in blocking but they didn't use him much in the passing game.
A 6th round pick looks like a steal; probably needs to spend a 5th for him.
I like him a whole lot more than Anthony Hill, that's for sure.
He can get pretty low to; I wonder if we can also use him at FB.
He weighs somewhere in the 260s and does have a pretty mean streak.
McCarron looks like a future NFL QB.
If he continues to develop, I think he will become a very good QB.
If the Texans draft him next year, we will also have the benefit of watching Miss Alabama at the games; man, is she hot!
That one worths the pick, LOL.
He mostly dominated LSU the last two years.
During Senior Bowl practice, he looked a little weak in pass pro.
It showed here and there in some games, too.
But overall, I would be comfortable if the Texans draft him (I haven't watched much of the other OTs yet, however).
The TE 89 Michael Williams is a big guy.
He looks really really good in blocking but they didn't use him much in the passing game.
A 6th round pick looks like a steal; probably needs to spend a 5th for him.
I like him a whole lot more than Anthony Hill, that's for sure.
He can get pretty low to; I wonder if we can also use him at FB.
He weighs somewhere in the 260s and does have a pretty mean streak.
McCarron looks like a future NFL QB.
If he continues to develop, I think he will become a very good QB.
If the Texans draft him next year, we will also have the benefit of watching Miss Alabama at the games; man, is she hot!
That one worths the pick, LOL.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
This is draft and of course a player with seems to posses higher talents will be drafted in the early rds. Seems to me, the Texans find players drafted 1~3rd has been a core of our team(excluding FA) and they tend to stick around with team longer. Of course, there are some players were drafted in later rds or UDFA and has been successful with us but % of success wise I think 1~3rd picks are very important. Of course, this may varies by quantity of quality talents available in respective draft year but in general, early rounds pays off if you draft right.
The Texans are playoff team and there aren't many holes in comparison with non contender team or The Texans of several years ago. So yeah, I agree with you about quality over quantity especially at this stage of team like the Texans really need quality players to fill the holes. So I am hoping we draft the right ones in early rounds.
And with the right coaching I disagree with the Tinbreds.
A big part of the problem was Dooley. IMHO
I agree and think Bray has the skill but lacks the maturity. On a pro team surrounded by older players/mentors and coaches that won't kiss his ass I think Bray could be the best QB in this class. I think he'll be forced to grow up quick and has all the physical skills.
Enviornment is very important. Dooley provided a terrible enviornment. Bray would do well on a very structured team like the Texans with Kubiak helping correct his flaws. IMHO
Some people look at these college 21 yr olds as finished products. LOL
I'm talking about his decisions on the field; too many WTF moments.
Show me some of these moments,
34 TD's 12 ints 3600 yds
Cant be too many of those moments. There are also bound to be many more good moments. I'm not saying Bray is perfect, but he's got as many if not more tools to work with as any QB in this draft.
After the combine I could see him moving into the bottom of the 1st rd. Taken by a team that trades back into the 1st rd like Arz or KC.
First off, we need to subtract out the weaklings a QB faces.
I always do. Before this year, all the competitions that Bray saw were weaklings. He managed to miss the other games somehow.
I have to go back to watch some cut ups because I didn't write down any notes; what I know for sure is that Bray often chucked and ducked like Gabbert; which tells me that his pre-snap reads are not good or his reaction to the pass rush is slow or etc.
Looking forward to your analsyst.
No way did Bray miss all of the big boys in 3 SEC yrs. I know he missed time one yr with a broken hand.
He had his team in most games in the 4th qtr against SEC defenses this yr. He did throw a pick and fumble in the 4th qtr against GA. But his team shouldn't have even been on the field talent wise with Ga. He played well against Fla. OK against Bama.
Remember his teams were always less talented and underdogs/out coached in those big games you're talking about. But they were in most of them late in the game. The 12 ints tell me he's not as bad at pre-snap reads as you might think.
He sure did. He missed a lot of the big boys in the SEC in the previous two years. When he did play, he had a bad game.
As far as bad moments this year, I just went back and skimmed the Georgia game. He threw 3 Ints, but that's not all. He could have thrown 2 or 3 more that the defenders just missed or dropped. He also fumbled the ball at a critical moment, too.
The reasons they were still in the game was due to an INT return for a TD by the D, 197 net yards and 3 TDs on the ground.
He has talents across the board.
All 3 of his receivers - two may go in the first round) are draftable; his TE is draftable; and one his O-linemen is draftable.
The other 4 linemen will be draftable next year; even his RB is getting a draftable grade (and he was a 4-star recruit out of high school - grade given by both Scout Inc. and Rivals.)
Every starter on that offense is draftable.
The previous two years, he even had D. Rogers on the roster.
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And that wasn't all his poor plays against Georgia.
He failed to convert on four or five third down situations when he simply made poor or inacurate throws (with time on hand) or didn't see the open receiver; and he simply gave up on another one by throwing the ball into the ground when there's an open receiver right in front of him.
His peripheral vision is so poor; he wouldn't have survived if not for all the talents surrounding him. It's hard to describe but the guy just doesn't have it between his ears.
He failed to convert on four or five third down situations when he simply made poor or inacurate throws (with time on hand) or didn't see the open receiver; and he simply gave up on another one by throwing the ball into the ground when there's an open receiver right in front of him.
His peripheral vision is so poor; he wouldn't have survived if not for all the talents surrounding him. It's hard to describe but the guy just doesn't have it between his ears.