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Proper Rebuild

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Since when? Did Kubiak and Obrien hire their own staff? Know why McVeigh is in LA vs Dallas? Any coach worth his salt wants to bring in his staff. The gm is suppose to get players that fit the coaches scheme and vision. Even when Harbaugh went to Ravens as a special teams coordinator, he chose his staff. When Tomlin went to Pittsburgh, he chose to keep the hall of fame dc and the oc Arians. If your coaching units suck. Which the Texans do, why would a coach want to keep anyone? Thats why I'm pretty certain its going to be an ex Patriot guy. Culley might be 1 and done in my opinion.
2 different coaching staffs for the most part and they both really suck?

At some point you've gotta start looking at the lack of talent. Something this team is currently devoid of.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Can't compare any team to the Patriots, they have the greatest coach of all time.
Not talking about the efficiency, just the scheme. Our DC last year employed what used to be a 3-4 last year, but they were in dime and nickel a lot.
The same goes with defense around the league.
For a while, too.

 

Earl34

All Pro

Number19

Hall of Fame
Since when? Did Kubiak and Obrien hire their own staff? Know why McVeigh is in LA vs Dallas? Any coach worth his salt wants to bring in his staff. The gm is suppose to get players that fit the coaches scheme and vision. Even when Harbaugh went to Ravens as a special teams coordinator, he chose his staff. When Tomlin went to Pittsburgh, he chose to keep the hall of fame dc and the oc Arians. If your coaching units suck. Which the Texans do, why would a coach want to keep anyone? Thats why I'm pretty certain its going to be an ex Patriot guy. Culley might be 1 and done in my opinion.
I explicitly said that a GM (Caserio) should hire a head coach to coach the direction/scheme that the GM wants the team to go.

You seem to be saying that if the GM wants to have the team run a 34 he will hire a coach that wants to run a 43, thereby immediately setting in place conflict within the organization. Why would a GM ever do that?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
When looking at the talent. Based on their skillset, which blocking scheme would fit the available talent? Zone, Man or Gap? Which scheme is the Texans running with this ED offense?

Offensive Line Schemes: Zone, Man (Angle), Gap - 2021 NFL Mock Draft (draftblaster.com)
Hard to say, It looks like they are running a hodge podge of stuff. Of course it looked the same way with Devlin running the OL. You would think with 2 different OL coaches there would be differences. Campen's a very well respected OL coach and things haven't changed. This leads me back to the root which is Gaine/Devlin whiffed on their talent evals of Howard/Scharping.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Lol, Culture is very “tangible”…See “the patriot way” . But besides that, You talking out of both sides of your neck. Neither talent or culture is technically Quantifiable….which is what you mean… yet all you’ve really talked about in your criticism of what kind of players NC has on the roster is that he’s not brought in or hasn’t found young, “top flight” talent….Then you point to 1-2 guys to make your case while simultaneously complaining about getting rid of below average players like Onenihu. Make up your mind.
I agree that culture is tangible. However, the question is who establishes and builds the culture? Is it the front office managment, HC or players?

Looking at the Patriots. Was the culture established by the HC (Belichick) and his vision of what he wanted of his team? Then Brady comes along, gets assimilated into this culture and then Belichick surrounding Brady with other "talented" players whose work ethic, dedication and leadership created the Patriots' Way that permeates through the organization?

In other words, I believe culture starts and is driven from the bottom up (HC and/or players) and when they win, it permeates an organization at every level. I'm not sure culture can be established or driven by the GMs and front office executives. One of the issues with hiring former Patriots coaches and staff is they tend to over estimate their contributions to the Patriots Way and those Super Bowl rings. That might be the reason so many have failed when they leave the Patriots. Sometimes, you really don't know, what you don't know.
 
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Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I agree that culture is tangible. However, the question is who establishes and builds the culture? Is it the front office managment, HC or players?

Looking at the Patriots. Was the culture established by the HC (Belichick) and his vision of what he wanted of his team? Then Brady comes along, gets assimilated into this culture and then Belichick surrounding Brady with other "talented" players whose work ethic, dedication and leadership created the Patriots' Way that permeates through the organization?

In other words, I believe culture starts and is driven from the bottom up (HC and/or players) and when they win, it permeates an organization at every level. I'm not sure culture can be established or driven by the GMs and front office executives. One of the issues with hiring former Patriots coaches and staff is they tend to over estimate their contributions to the Patriots Way and those Super Bowl rings. That might be the reason so many have failed when they leave the Patriots. Sometimes, you really don't know what you don't know.
Being a leader of anything much less a HC in the NFL is as much about the game management as it is about establishing a culture and getting guys to buy in on that culture. You could argue that its more about that than anything honestly b/c the game management stuff is pretty much standard for most decisions.

But its a 2 way street & can be established either way imo. The "Patriot way" was established by Belichick. Brady helped take it to the next level b/c he came in with the attitude of wanting to be coached hard. He fell in line with the way Belichick wanted to do things and as the leader of the team, the other players underneath him followed. But make no mistake, Belichick established it.

In contrast look at the Bucs. They were terrible under Wyche for 4 years. In his time, He had Lynch, Dilfer, Brooks & Sapp as cornerstones, but nothing ever materialized. All those guys wanted to win badly but nothing. Now take a listen to what Sapp and all the other guys says happened when Dungy entered in 96....fast forward to about the 19 min mark.

and within 2 years he has them turned around and they are the best defense in the league. Dungy got them believing.

Then look at the Colts under Manning. Manning in 2 years took the Colts from 3-13 to 13-3...... with Jim Mora as HC. Had another winning season at 11-5 under Mora before Mora was eventually fired and replaced by Dungy.............& all of us here know all too well what happened after that. Clear delineation of who established the winning culture in Indy.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I explicitly said that a GM (Caserio) should hire a head coach to coach the direction/scheme that the GM wants the team to go.

You seem to be saying that if the GM wants to have the team run a 34 he will hire a coach that wants to run a 43, thereby immediately setting in place conflict within the organization. Why would a GM ever do that?
Gm gets players that the coach wants not the other way around. The coach has a system that he's comfortable with and the gm gets the players, its not the gms vision. Andy Reid in KC changed from a 3-4 based defense to a 4-3 even though Sutton had success with that defense. He fired Sutton, hired Spags, and the gm traded for Clark, traded Dee Ford, and released Houston . That wasn't on the gm to make that call. When Baltimore drafted Jackson, Harbaugh fired the oc, got Roman and started to run a Lamar system. He didn't hire a oc that was going to have LJ dropping back throwing the back 45 times.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Being a leader of anything much less a HC in the NFL is as much about the game management as it is about establishing a culture and getting guys to buy in on that culture. You could argue that its more about that than anything honestly b/c the game management stuff is pretty much standard for most decisions.

But its a 2 way street & can be established either way imo. The "Patriot way" was established by Belichick. Brady helped take it to the next level b/c he came in with the attitude of wanting to be coached hard. He fell in line with the way Belichick wanted to do things and as the leader of the team, the other players underneath him followed. But make no mistake, Belichick established it.

In contrast look at the Bucs. They were terrible under Wyche for 4 years. In his time, He had Lynch, Dilfer, Brooks & Sapp as cornerstones, but nothing ever materialized. All those guys wanted to win badly but nothing. Now take a listen to what Sapp and all the other guys says happened when Dungy entered in 96....fast forward to about the 19 min mark.

and within 2 years he has them turned around and they are the best defense in the league. Dungy got them believing.

Then look at the Colts under Manning. Manning in 2 years took the Colts from 3-13 to 13-3...... with Jim Mora as HC. Had another winning season at 11-5 under Mora before Mora was eventually fired and replaced by Dungy.............& all of us here know all too well what happened after that. Clear delineation of who established the winning culture in Indy.
You think the Texans would've drafted a player like Sapp? You take Sapp out the picture and that defense is very average and Dungy gets fired sooner. You cant always draft or sign boyscouts or players who don't walk to your drum.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I agree that culture is tangible. However, the question is who establishes and builds the culture? Is it the front office managment, HC or players?

Looking at the Patriots. Was the culture established by the HC (Belichick) and his vision of what he wanted of his team? Then Brady comes along, gets assimilated into this culture and then Belichick surrounding Brady with other "talented" players whose work ethic, dedication and leadership created the Patriots' Way that permeates through the organization?

In other words, I believe culture starts and is driven from the bottom up (HC and/or players) and when they win, it permeates an organization at every level. I'm not sure culture can be established or driven by the GMs and front office executives. One of the issues with hiring former Patriots coaches and staff is they tend to over estimate their contributions to the Patriots Way and those Super Bowl rings. That might be the reason so many have failed when they leave the Patriots. Sometimes, you really don't know what you don't know.
Nailed it. I've never heard of a top down model that starts/ends with so-called "culture" (whatever that means) winning or even competing for championships. It's just empty rhetoric without the talent, leadership, and other intangibles that great players and coaches bring to an organization.

Nevermind the fact that the Texans "culture expert" is being ridiculed and laughed at by fans, players, and the media.

Hiring some goober that spews worthless platitudes as VP is pointless when faced with a locker room devoid of talent.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You think the Texans would've drafted a player like Sapp? You take Sapp out the picture and that defense is very average and Dungy gets fired sooner. You cant always draft or sign boyscouts or players who don't walk to your drum.
Yeah? you’re not saying anything here other than an Uber talented player can enhance a team. Duh. But that same stud needs structure and needs to buy in to what the coaches & FO are selling the other 52 players too, otherwise it don’t work. It’s a 2 way street…always has been.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Nailed it. I've never heard of a top down model that starts/ends with so-called "culture" (whatever that means) winning or even competing for championships. It's just empty rhetoric without the talent, leadership, and other intangibles that great players and coaches bring to an organization.

Nevermind the fact that the Texans "culture expert" is being ridiculed and laughed at by fans, players, and the media.

Hiring some goober that spews worthless platitudes as VP is pointless when faced with a locker room devoid of talent.
& talent is just “potential” without established positive culture…

saw this same train of thought when it was proliferated around here that “all we need is a qb”…& well, we finally got that qb ……..and still didn’t do much more than what we did when we were trotting Schaub & Hoyer out there. It ain’t just 1 thing. It never is. Don’t think you guys understand how complex it is to win a championship.

we’ve all seen our fair share of talented teams in Houston that have failed to do anything b/c of shitty culture or just not very good direction from the FO. This ain’t college football where you can simply out-recruit or buy out the competition.

y’all are too caught up in The Who, how & when & none of that really matters. Bottom line is You’re not winning a championship or competing for them year in & out without talent or culture…period. doesn’t really matter which comes 1st or who sets it.
 
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Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
we didnt do a hard reboot more of a soft one

its kinda strange or im curious on why these people survived the purge


TIm Kelly and Jack easterby

david johnson
Cooks
J akins
howard and tunsil
martin
Cunninham
Reid
moore and mitchell
fairbair and i guess John weeks has a job for life

but yeah all these people early on had trade value and we could of 2X stocked up on picks
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You think the Texans would've drafted a player like Sapp? You take Sapp out the picture and that defense is very average and Dungy gets fired sooner. You cant always draft or sign boyscouts or players who don't walk to your drum.
Most winning teams have 3-4 players like this on their team.The Pats have had many reclamation projects on their teams over the years. Talib/Gordon/AB etc ....

Hopefully Caserio will continue this trend. But now isn't the time to add these types of guys.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
In this case Caserio was given a very limited scope of people he could hire. This all goes back to Derrick's desire to play for a minority HC and Cal trying to meet Derrick's wishes.

Cal is getting what he deserves.
There you go making up stuff. Caserio could've hired anyone he wanted to, it didn't have to be a minority. It sure as hell didn't have to be a 65 yr old coach who never even been a coordinator. The fact that Caserio is the only gm who wouldn't fire Esterby tells you alot off the bat. They didn't even interview Will McClay who is a top shelf talent evaluator says how they even went about this. Then your final choice is Culley? Why? He's the fall guy and will read off the script while Esterby is standing at the curtain.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Most winning teams have 3-4 players like this on their team.The Pats have had many reclamation projects on their teams over the years. Talib/Gordon/AB etc ....

Hopefully Caserio will continue this trend. But now isn't the time to add these types of guys.
Talent is talent. You add as much talent as you can at every turn. The Texans don't ever see the need to draft a Justin Houston over a Brooks Reed or a Marcus Peters over a Kevin Johnson. Thats why their team depth has been average and overall talent.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
& talent is just “potential” without established positive culture…

saw this same train of thought when it was proliferated around here that “all we need is a qb”…& well, we finally got that qb ……..and still didn’t do much more than what we did when we were trotting Schaub & Hoyer out there. It ain’t just 1 thing. It never is. Don’t think you guys understand how complex it is to win a championship.

we’ve all seen our fair share of talented teams in Houston that have failed to do anything b/c of shitty culture or just not very good direction from the FO. This ain’t college football where you can simply out-recruit or buy out the competition.

y’all are too caught up in The Who, how & when & none of that really matters. Bottom line is You’re not winning a championship or competing for them year in & out without talent or culture…period. doesn’t really matter which comes 1st or who sets it.
In your opinion, who was more talented coming out, Justin Houston or Brooks Reed?
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
& talent is just “potential” without established positive culture…

saw this same train of thought when it was proliferated around here that “all we need is a qb”…& well, we finally got that qb ……..and still didn’t do much more than what we did when we were trotting Schaub & Hoyer out there. It ain’t just 1 thing. It never is. Don’t think you guys understand how complex it is to win a championship.

we’ve all seen our fair share of talented teams in Houston that have failed to do anything b/c of shitty culture or just not very good direction from the FO. This ain’t college football where you can simply out-recruit or buy out the competition.

y’all are too caught up in The Who, how & when & none of that really matters. Bottom line is You’re not winning a championship or competing for them year in & out without talent or culture…period. doesn’t really matter which comes 1st or who sets it.
Just like Leal Collins was sitting there on the board in. Marcus Peters was drafted after Kevin Johnson.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Talent is talent. You add as much talent as you can at every turn. The Texans don't ever see the need to draft a Justin Houston over a Brooks Reed or a Marcus Peters over a Kevin Johnson. Thats why their team depth has been average and overall talent.
Picks like these are the reason why the team has always been avg. I really wanted RS to pick Houston but to the horror he tested positive for weed at the combine. Imagine a healthy Watt on one side and a young Houston on the other.

Look no further than the Texans history of picking in the 3rd rd for the reason depth has always been lacking. Hopefully that's changing with the Reid/Greenard/Mills/Collins picks.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
In your opinion, who was more talented coming out, Justin Houston or Brooks Reed?
houston…but who gives a **** about that. Houston from a raw talent perspective had more talent than JJ. Clowney had more talent & upside than Mack. But who of the guys I named above has had the better career and more of an impact in their careers? It’s not close. Talent can only carry you so far…and that largely depends on how lucky they are with injuries.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
houston…but who gives a **** about that. Houston from a raw talent perspective had more talent than JJ. Clowney had more talent & upside than Mack. But who of the guys I named above has had the better career and more of an impact in their careers? It’s not close. Talent can only carry you so far…and that largely depends on how lucky they are with injuries.
I think Bill Parcells said he wasn’t trying to get the best players, but assemble the best team.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
They didn't even interview Will McClay who is a top shelf talent evaluator says how they even went about this.
I don't think McClay was interested in leaving the Cowboys. And certainly not interested in working for Kyle and Jack. Getting quality people in the building (front office, coaches, players) is going to be a problem with these guys in charge.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
houston…but who gives a **** about that. Houston from a raw talent perspective had more talent than JJ. Clowney had more talent & upside than Mack. But who of the guys I named above has had the better career and more of an impact in their careers? It’s not close. Talent can only carry you so far…and that largely depends on how lucky they are with injuries.
Clowney didn't have more upside or talent than Mack. The only thing Clowney had over Mack was straight line speed, but he couldn't bend. Clowney is an athlete playing football vs Mack who was a athletic football player. Tgere is a difference. Maybe thats where you're confused about talent.
 

Earl34

All Pro
This is an example of high 1st round OL draft picks
View attachment 9332
The Oilers spent three consecutive high draft picks to rebuild their OL with Mike Munchak (1982: R1:8), Bruce Mathews (1983: R1:9) and Dean Steinkuhler (1984: R1:2).

Two of three made the HOF. That is how you rebuild an OL. Impressive.

EDIT: They also used their R2:30 pick in the 1983 draft on Harvey Salem.
 
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Thorn

Dirty Old Man
The Oilers spent three consecutive high draft picks to rebuild their OL with Mike Munchak (1982: R1:8), Bruce Mathews (1983: R1:9) and Dean Steinkuhler (1984: R1:2).

Two of three made the HOF. That is how you rebuild an OL. Impressive.
And what's really impressive is that they hit on all three picks, an admittedly unusual stroke of fantastic luck with your 1st round picks.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Oilers spent three consecutive high draft picks to rebuild their OL with Mike Munchak (1982: R1:8), Bruce Mathews (1983: R1:9) and Dean Steinkuhler (1984: R1:2).

Two of three made the HOF. That is how you rebuild an OL. Impressive.

EDIT: They also used their R2:30 pick in the 1983 draft on Harvey Salem.
The foundation for the House of Pain yrs.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
In regards to the OL:

1. Establish a scheme.
2. Hire an OL Coach who understands this scheme inside and out.
3. Draft players who fit this scheme and/or have the versatility to be coached into the scheme.
4. OL Coach has to successfully transfer his fundamental knowledge and nuances of scheme to the players on his OL.

How teams continue to screw up such an easy and straight forward process is beyond me. I think personal friendships are the underlying problems with teams that cannot seem to execute this plan.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
In regards to the OL:

1. Establish a scheme.
2. Hire an OL Coach who understands this scheme inside and out.
3. Draft players who fit this scheme and/or have the versatility to be coached into the scheme.
4. OL Coach has to successfully transfer his fundamental knowledge and nuances of scheme to the players on his OL.

How teams continue to screw up such an easy and straight forward process is beyond me. I think personal friendships are the underlying problems with teams that cannot seem to execute this plan.
How and where does fan support enter the equation? To draft Munchak, Mathews and Steinkuhler, the Oilers had 3 consecutive losing seasons that allowed 3 consecutive picks in the top 10. Just look at this season. The current rebuild is under attack and we are only half way through the first season.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
How and where does fan support enter the equation? To draft Munchak, Mathews and Steinkuhler, the Oilers had 3 consecutive losing seasons that allowed 3 consecutive picks in the top 10. Just look at this season. The current rebuild is under attack and we are only half way through the first season.
I'm not sure we've actually started the "rebuild" phase yet, we're still in the "dismantling" stage. If we were talking about a car, we haven't even been to the parts shop yet, we're still hanging around the junkyard picking up scrap.
 

Earl34

All Pro
How and where does fan support enter the equation? To draft Munchak, Mathews and Steinkuhler, the Oilers had 3 consecutive losing seasons that allowed 3 consecutive picks in the top 10. Just look at this season. The current rebuild is under attack and we are only half way through the first season.
At this point, fan support is not part of the equation. Win and they shall come. After five consecutive ALCS appearances, do you think Astros fans think of the Bo Porter years?
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
How and where does fan support enter the equation? To draft Munchak, Mathews and Steinkuhler, the Oilers had 3 consecutive losing seasons that allowed 3 consecutive picks in the top 10. Just look at this season. The current rebuild is under attack and we are only half way through the first season.
Me….I love the art of the rebuild. Some fans just like to wait for the end results…..if successful.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
In regards to the OL:

1. Establish a scheme.
2. Hire an OL Coach who understands this scheme inside and out.
3. Draft players who fit this scheme and/or have the versatility to be coached into the scheme.
4. OL Coach has to successfully transfer his fundamental knowledge and nuances of scheme to the players on his OL.
How do we know they haven’t started this already? They had to dip into the reserves in what? Week 5 with a rookie QB in week 2.

& they didn’t have a 1st or 2nd round pick
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
How do we know they haven’t started this already? They had to dip into the reserves in what? Week 5 with a rookie QB in week 2.

& they didn’t have a 1st or 2nd round pick
Yeah….this season was headed towards the schitter in the second half of the Browns game. It’s really tough putting this all on the staff based on the talent, but would you be comfortable rolling with this staff in 2022?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Pass and run protection shouldn't have anything to do with your rookie QB. The scheme/plan for blocking should be static. The play calls...whole different story.
OLs need to gel. They need to hear what the QB is saying the same way. They have to see the defense the same way. They have to block in coordination with each other.

I’m not blaming everything on Mills. Maybe he got to functional by the time Canon went out. Then Brit went out. Then Tunsil went out. Then they replace Scharping, then they bring in Morrisey.
 
OLs need to gel. They need to hear what the QB is saying the same way. They have to see the defense the same way. They have to block in coordination with each other.

I’m not blaming everything on Mills. Maybe he got to functional by the time Canon went out. Then Brit went out. Then Tunsil went out. Then they replace Scharping, then they bring in Morrisey.
There is some poo butt QB running around the NFL saying "just do your job".
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Pass and run protection shouldn't have anything to do with your rookie QB. The scheme/plan for blocking should be static. The play calls...whole different story.
Blocking is not "static", if I'm interpreting your use correctly. For instance, there is zone blocking and power blocking. I'm sure there are other refinements and techniques that can be taught, practiced and used.

On some pass blocking plays, I've seen the Texans' OL, immediately on the snap, and as a unit, back step/give up 5 yards before trying to anchor. Of course when one player (the OL'man) is going backward and one player (the DL'man) is power rushing forward, guess who has the advantage.

I definitely believe something is haywire in our blocking scheming. What I don't understand is why a change in the OL coaching, Campen, didn't produce improvement.

I do remember reading a year or so ago that, with the change in college football offensive scheming, there was an observable decline in the technique of OL'men coming out of college into the pro game. If this is accurate, then coaching these players up would definitely be needed and the quality of coaching would also need to be capable of addressing these defencincies.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Blocking is not "static", if I'm interpreting your use correctly. For instance, there is zone blocking and power blocking. I'm sure there are other refinements and techniques that can be taught, practiced and used.

On some pass blocking plays, I've seen the Texans' OL, immediately on the snap, and as a unit, back step/give up 5 yards before trying to anchor. Of course when one player (the OL'man) is going backward and one player (the DL'man) is power rushing forward, guess who has the advantage.

I definitely believe something is haywire in our blocking scheming. What I don't understand is why a change in the OL coaching, Campen, didn't produce improvement.

I do remember reading a year or so ago that, with the change in college football offensive scheming, there was an observable decline in the technique of OL'men coming out of college into the pro game. If this is accurate, then coaching these players up would definitely be needed and the quality of coaching would also need to be capable.
2 OL coaches and 2 HC's and the OL still looks like crap. I'm thinking it's a talent problem with some scheme issues.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
But I found it interesting those recent comments about the OL'men cut or traded by the Texans finding some sucess on other teams.
Quessenberry was always talented and was coming into his own before he got cancer. BOB cut him before he was fully recovered and the Titans picked him up and waited until he was ready before playing him. They're currently reaping the rewards of that decision.

Lamm is and always will be a long time backup swing OT. Ben Jones is what he was when he was a Texan. A solid middle of the pack C. BOB thought he was upgrading when he drafted Martin. BOB got that 1 totally wrong.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Yeah….this season was headed towards the schitter in the second half of the Browns game. It’s really tough putting this all on the staff based on the talent, but would you be comfortable rolling with this staff in 2022?
See, these two switched their avatars just to screw with us.

Me an Tex did that once and really screwed with yalls heads. :lol:
 


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