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Proper Rebuild

Blocking is not "static", if I'm interpreting your use correctly. For instance, there is zone blocking and power blocking. I'm sure there are other refinements and techniques that can be taught, practiced and used.

On some pass blocking plays, I've seen the Texans' OL, immediately on the snap, and as a unit, back step/give up 5 yards before trying to anchor. Of course when one player (the OL'man) is going backward and one player (the DL'man) is power rushing forward, guess who has the advantage.

I definitely believe something is haywire in our blocking scheming. What I don't understand is why a change in the OL coaching, Campen, didn't produce improvement.

I do remember reading a year or so ago that, with the change in college football offensive scheming, there was an observable decline in the technique of OL'men coming out of college into the pro game. If this is accurate, then coaching these players up would definitely be needed and the quality of coaching would also need to be capable of addressing these defencincies.
By static I simply meant the OL should know their base protections or assignments based on the play called vs the play caller. If 200 Jet X Omaha is the play called by Taylor or Mills, generally speaking I expect the OL to know what to do.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Earlier in this thread I mentioned a good young QB and then build around him.
The first "build" has got to be his oline. The game is won in the trenches so it is just common sense that the Oline is the first "trench".
There is plenty of disagreement about which side of the ball you build first but for mine, if you can't score, how are you going to win? You would need a defense that can stop any offense from scoring and a defense like that doesn't come around too often and is even more difficult to preserve.
Defenses tend to "lift" when they know they have an effective offense so you don't have to have a top 5 defense to have an effective D.
Building the Oline helps both the QB and the running game and keeping your O on the field will eventually wear down opposing D's while keeping yours fresh.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Build from the inside out. It takes these guys a couple of years to mature to NFL standards.

Maximize your draft picks. Use as many draft picks to fill roster as possible. There is a reason why 4+ year vets are willing to sign a 1 year contract. Go for the 4 year rookie contracts instead.

Once you have established your core then begin adding your skill players.

You build thru the draft and supplement with free agency.

EXAMPLE OF MAXIMIZING THE TEXANS 2021 ORIGINAL DRAFT PICKS:
(7 of 9 made NFL rosters)
#67 - Quinn Meinerz OC
#109 - Bobby Brown III DL
#122 - Tommy Togiai, DL
#147 - Ihmir Smith-Marsette, WR
#158 - Brenden Jaimes, OT
#195 - Tay Gowans, CB
#202 - James Wiggins, S
#212 - Jonathan Cooper, Edge
#233 - Cade Johnson, WR
Be nice to tag 7 of 9 with no first or second rounders huh? Has any team ever done that? You gotta be realistic. 4 or 5 each draft would be exceptional and I would wager few teams manage that every year.
The average lifespan of an NFL player is just 3.3 years - a QB is 4.4 years and this turnover rate is why it is so difficult to build a championship team.
And of course, coaching is key but a top ten QB and Oline is gonna win you a lot of games.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Be nice to tag 7 of 9 with no first or second rounders huh? Has any team ever done that? You gotta be realistic. 4 or 5 each draft would be exceptional and I would wager few teams manage that every year.
The average lifespan of an NFL player is just 3.3 years - a QB is 4.4 years and this turnover rate is why it is so difficult to build a championship team.
And of course, coaching is key but a top ten QB and Oline is gonna win you a lot of games.
Those were my draft picks using Texans original picks as the draft proceeded. What can I say. Realistically really bad teams keep a higher percentage of their draft picks. Common sense.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Earlier in this thread I mentioned a good young QB and then build around him.
The first "build" has got to be his oline. The game is won in the trenches so it is just common sense that the Oline is the first "trench".
There is plenty of disagreement about which side of the ball you build first but for mine, if you can't score, how are you going to win? You would need a defense that can stop any offense from scoring and a defense like that doesn't come around too often and is even more difficult to preserve.
Defenses tend to "lift" when they know they have an effective offense so you don't have to have a top 5 defense to have an effective D.
Building the Oline helps both the QB and the running game and keeping your O on the field will eventually wear down opposing D's while keeping yours fresh.
Here is where I'm going to push back on this theory. How can Arizona run the ball effectively. What about the Rams, Browns, and 49ers? How about the Patriots? Its not so much as building the oline as it is having the right players,with the right scheme, executing it. Think about the best Texans oline and how it was assembled. How much draft capital was used to do so. Think how it was coached up. Winston and Brown were the only picks on what used to be 1st day, a 1st and 3rd. Myers came from Denver for a 5th, Wade was cheap free agent. Somehow the BOB/Esterbe/Caserio oline has more resources invested, but can't do what that line did. Any questions as to why not?
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Here is where I'm going to push back on this theory. How can Arizona run the ball effectively. What about the Rams, Browns, and 49ers? How about the Patriots? Its not so much as building the oline as it is having the right players,with the right scheme, executing it. Think about the best Texans oline and how it was assembled. How much draft capital was used to do so. Think how it was coached up. Winston and Brown were the only picks on what used to be 1st day, a 1st and 3rd. Myers came from Denver for a 5th, Wade was cheap free agent. Somehow the BOB/Esterbe/Caserio oline has more resources invested, but can't do what that line did. Any questions as to why not?
We dumped the ZBS altogether.. This new scheme has never worked. Yes Foster was spectacular, but we also had MULTIPLE 1,000 yard rushers in that scheme..
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
Here is where I'm going to push back on this theory. How can Arizona run the ball effectively. What about the Rams, Browns, and 49ers? How about the Patriots? Its not so much as building the oline as it is having the right players,with the right scheme, executing it. Think about the best Texans oline and how it was assembled. How much draft capital was used to do so. Think how it was coached up. Winston and Brown were the only picks on what used to be 1st day, a 1st and 3rd. Myers came from Denver for a 5th, Wade was cheap free agent. Somehow the BOB/Esterbe/Caserio oline has more resources invested, but can't do what that line did. Any questions as to why not?
First the team knew they wanted to utilize the ZBS. They got a OL Coach who absolutely knew the blocking scheme and could relay that knowledge to the players so they could successfully execute it. The last piece was finding a RB who was a natural RB that possessed excellent vision and the ability to cut back when the openings were there…..hello Arian Foster. The Texans figured out how to assemble the necessary puzzle pieces, all at the same time, for a short period.

Texans have never accomplished this feat, before or after that short period of time when the ZBS ruled.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Here is where I'm going to push back on this theory. How can Arizona run the ball effectively. What about the Rams, Browns, and 49ers? How about the Patriots? Its not so much as building the oline as it is having the right players,with the right scheme, executing it. Think about the best Texans oline and how it was assembled. How much draft capital was used to do so. Think how it was coached up. Winston and Brown were the only picks on what used to be 1st day, a 1st and 3rd. Myers came from Denver for a 5th, Wade was cheap free agent. Somehow the BOB/Esterbe/Caserio oline has more resources invested, but can't do what that line did. Any questions as to why not?
I would say after 2 hc's and 2 ol coaches it's mainly whiffing on draft picks. Followed closely by scheme issues.

Do you remember the issues the ol had before HOF'er Alex Gibbs got to Kirby? There's not a Alex Gibbs coaching any position on this team.
 

Earl34

All Pro
2019 was the best running game the team had during OBs tenure. They finished in the top 10 in yards and more impressively yards per attempt. I'm stubborn and probably won't change my mind but the fallout from the 3/26/2020 trade did the team no favors. The offense overall was trending to potentially be at its peak.
That 2019 running game had Hyde rushing for 1070 yards and 6 Tds, but Watson (413 Yds, 7 TDs) and Duke Johnson (410 Yds, 2 TDs) contributed another 800 yards and 9 TDs to that ranking.

What's funny is that Hyde's running style probably was the best fit for whatever run blocking scheme they are trying to execute. Yet, he only was here one year. Go figure.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
That 2019 running game had Hyde rushing for 1070 yards and 6 Tds, but Watson (413 Yds, 7 TDs) and Duke Johnson (410 Yds, 2 TDs) contributed another 800 yards and 9 TDs to that ranking.

What's funny is that Hyde's running style probably was the best fit for whatever run blocking scheme they are trying to execute. Yet, he only was here one year. Go figure.
Hyde turned down the contract extension
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
First the team knew they wanted to utilize the ZBS. They got a OL Coach who absolutely knew the blocking scheme and could relay that knowledge to the players found to execute it. The last piece was finding a RB who was a natural RB that possessed excellent vision and the ability to cut back when the openings were there…..hello Arian Foster. The Texans figured out how to assemble the necessary puzzle pieces, all at the same time, for a short period.

Texans have never accomplished this feat, before or after that short period of time when the ZBS ruled.
In 2011, Tate was just 58 yards short from giving this team 2 1,000 yard rushers that season.. If he played all 16 games they most likely would've had 2. Steve Slaton even had a 1,200 yard season.

There was more consistent lanes made to run through during those years. Now all I see is RBs running into the OLs backside. Plus I think it was easier to find Olinemen on the cheap who could run that scheme.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Contributor's Club
In 2011, Tate was just 58 yards short from giving this team 2 1,000 yard rushers that season.. If he played all 16 games they most likely would've had 2. Steve Slaton even had a 1,200 yard season.

There was more consistent lanes made to run through during those years. Now all I see is RBs running into the OLs backside. Plus I think it was easier to find Olinemen on the cheap who could run that scheme.
That’s prior to BO’b

The statement was that the O’Brien blocking scheme was not conducive to 1000 yard rushing.

I pointed to Carlos Hyde & really Lamar Miller before him as well.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I would say after 2 hc's and 2 ol coaches it's mainly whiffing on draft picks. Followed closely by scheme issues.

Do you remember the issues the ol had before HOF'er Alex Gibbs got to Kirby? There's not a Alex Gibbs coaching any position on this team.
Its more scheme and the inability to coach players in said scheme. When you're a coach coming in, you should evaluate what works and what don't. OB came in a dumped that scheme and wanted a different body type. Texans had their future center and rg already in the mix. The lt was here too and all it would've cost was money. Vrabel went to Titans and kept Arthur Smith. Hell, people forgot Texans had a rookie run for 1200 before neck injury. They almost had 2 1k yard rushers in the same season.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
Here is where I'm going to push back on this theory. How can Arizona run the ball effectively. What about the Rams, Browns, and 49ers? How about the Patriots? Its not so much as building the oline as it is having the right players,with the right scheme, executing it. Think about the best Texans oline and how it was assembled. How much draft capital was used to do so. Think how it was coached up. Winston and Brown were the only picks on what used to be 1st day, a 1st and 3rd. Myers came from Denver for a 5th, Wade was cheap free agent. Somehow the BOB/Esterbe/Caserio oline has more resources invested, but can't do what that line did. Any questions as to why not?
Coaching has a huge bearing on all aspects of play.
It is going to be interesting to see if any changes happen in that dept.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Its more scheme and the inability to coach players in said scheme. When you're a coach coming in, you should evaluate what works and what don't. OB came in a dumped that scheme and wanted a different body type. Texans had their future center and rg already in the mix. The lt was here too and all it would've cost was money. Vrabel went to Titans and kept Arthur Smith. Hell, people forgot Texans had a rookie run for 1200 before neck injury. They almost had 2 1k yard rushers in the same season.
Did Gibbs come in here and implement his scheme, or did he try to figure out what works with what was already here?
 

Earl34

All Pro
Its more scheme and the inability to coach players in said scheme. When you're a coach coming in, you should evaluate what works and what don't. OB came in a dumped that scheme and wanted a different body type. Texans had their future center and rg already in the mix. The lt was here too and all it would've cost was money. Vrabel went to Titans and kept Arthur Smith. Hell, people forgot Texans had a rookie run for 1200 before neck injury. They almost had 2 1k yard rushers in the same season.
Good points with one clarification. After he went to the Titans, Vrabel hired Matt LaFleur from the Shanny/Kubiak WCO tree as his OC. When LaFleur left for the Packers HC job, he promoted Arthur Smith to OC and kept running the offense LaFleur implemented.

I find it interesting that Vrabel and the Titans GM have ties to the Patriots, but they didn’t try to run the EP offense or be Patriots South. Derrick Henry and Tannehill have produced in that run heavy, play action, WCO scheme.
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Good points with one clarification. After he went to the Titans, Vrabel hired Matt LaFleur from the Shanny/Kubiak WCO tree as his OC. When LaFleur left for the Packers HC job, he promoted Arthur Smith to OC and kept running the offense LaFleur implemented.

I find it interesting that the Vrabel and the Titans GM have ties to the Patriots, but they didn’t try to run the EP offense or be Patriots South. Derrick Henry and Tannehill have produced in that run heavy, play action, WCO scheme.
Thats part of coaching. Tomlin, who is known as a leader of men kept the hof dc and the oc intact and kept rolling. You're absolutely right that nobody accross the league calls Titans Patriots South. Even though they had some Patriots players, they had their own style.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Did Gibbs come in here and implement his scheme, or did he try to figure out what works with what was already here?
Gibbs and Kubes came in with a scheme and Smith drafted for that scheme. If you go through the history of Gibbs, Shanny, and Kubes, Gibbs coached the rbs and the oline. That way everyone would be on the same page. Meyers went from a 5th rd pick to a pro bowler. Duane Brown was the last tackle taken and he's been a probowler. Winston was playing at a pro bowl level for years. There hasn't been 1 oline player that has gotten better under the BOB/Caserio regime. Even the all pro in Tunsil looks to be backsliding.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I find it interesting that the Vrabel and the Titans GM have ties to the Patriots, but they didn’t try to run the EP offense or be Patriots South. Derrick Henry and Tannehill have produced in that run heavy, play action, WCO scheme.
What defense do they run?

I mean, we're running the Tampa 2 & only running EP as a leftover of the Patriot OC that was the HC. Who knows what OC or offense will run when they get rid of Kelly.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Gibbs and Kubes came in with a scheme and Smith drafted for that scheme. If you go through the history of Gibbs, Shanny, and Kubes, Gibbs coached the rbs and the oline. That way everyone would be on the same page. Meyers went from a 5th rd pick to a pro bowler. Duane Brown was the last tackle taken and he's been a probowler. Winston was playing at a pro bowl level for years. There hasn't been 1 oline player that has gotten better under the BOB/Caserio regime. Even the all pro in Tunsil looks to be backsliding.
Gibbs was highly involved in the selection of DB and the FA signing of Salaam. He also knew about Myers and Briesel from his days in Colorado. RS had very little to do with these moves. Why weren't these moves made by the ol coach before Gibbs got here?

Agreed about BOB not being able to develop players. I always said Devlin was going to be BOB's downfall. But Campen is highly respected around the NFL and the same issues still exist. Don't think that I'm saying there's not scheme issues because there definitely are those.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Good points with one clarification. After he went to the Titans, Vrabel hired Matt LaFleur from the Shanny/Kubiak WCO tree as his OC. When LaFleur left for the Packers HC job, he promoted Arthur Smith to OC and kept running the offense LaFleur implemented.

I find it interesting that the Vrabel and the Titans GM have ties to the Patriots, but they didn’t try to run the EP offense or be Patriots South. Derrick Henry and Tannehill have produced in that run heavy, play action, WCO scheme.
Good point. Vrabel most likely did not have an owner making it a condition of employment to copycat some other team but rather lets him coach according to his own identity.

There is nothing original about the McNair family. Generic name, logo, colors, and constantly trying to copycat trends instead of letting a GM/HC combo create their own thing. This is quite evident in the focus on mythical "culture" instead of letting it come naturally as a by-product of success.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Gibbs was highly involved in the selection of DB and the FA signing of Salaam. He also knew about Myers and Briesel from his days in Colorado. RS had very little to do with these moves. Why weren't these moves made by the ol coach before Gibbs got here?

Agreed about BOB not being able to develop players. I always said Devlin was going to be BOB's downfall. But Campen is highly respected around the NFL and the same issues still exist. Don't think that I'm saying there's not scheme issues because there definitely are those.
Just so I understand you. Smith was in Denver with Kubes and Gibbs correct? After the last Casserly draft, Kubes brought in Smith , correct? That same year, they traded for the limited start center in Myers correct? They also traded for Schaub and signed Briesel as well as drafted Slayton correct? Basically, in your words, the gm Smith, drafted or traded for players the coach wanted , correct? Whether it was Gibbs who wanted Brown, Kubes, or Smith, he fit the DNA of the player/body type the coach thought fit their scheme correct? Isn't that how an organization is suppose to operate?
 

Earl34

All Pro
Just so I understand you. Smith was in Denver with Kubes and Gibbs correct? After the last Casserly draft, Kubes brought in Smith , correct? That same year, they traded for the limited start center in Myers correct? They also traded for Schaub and signed Briesel as well as drafted Slayton correct? Basically, in your words, the gm Smith, drafted or traded for players the coach wanted , correct? Whether it was Gibbs who wanted Brown, Kubes, or Smith, he fit the DNA of the player/body type the coach thought fit their scheme correct? Isn't that how an organization is suppose to operate?
On that same thought. You are providing examples of Smith working with the coaching staff to sign players via trade, FA signings or draft picks who the coaches wanted for their scheme. Also, some give credit to Wade Phillips for drafting Watt. So even in that instance, Smith selected a player a coach wanted.

However, when it comes to selecting a QB to replace Schaub, Smith supposedly ignored the wishes of the coaching staff? He abandoned the boardroom approach and went rogue? To this day, that TT narrative never made sense to me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just so I understand you. Smith was in Denver with Kubes and Gibbs correct? After the last Casserly draft, Kubes brought in Smith , correct? That same year, they traded for the limited start center in Myers correct? They also traded for Schaub and signed Briesel as well as drafted Slayton correct? Basically, in your words, the gm Smith, drafted or traded for players the coach wanted , correct? Whether it was Gibbs who wanted Brown, Kubes, or Smith, he fit the DNA of the player/body type the coach thought fit their scheme correct? Isn't that how an organization is suppose to operate?
I dont think that 1st yr Gibbs was the OL coach. The next season Gibbs was hired and he was responsible for the drafting of DB. It's entirely possible RS/Kubiak knew how good Myers was. But I seriously doubt RS would've brought in Myers without Gibbs blessing. Also it's well documented that Kubiak/Gibbs had connections to Colorada St. and the Rams were running the same ZBS sustem Gibbs was running. Gibbs identified Briesel as somebody to take a flier on since Briesel already knew the system.

Yes, that's the way an org is supposed to work. Somehow though RS didn't get Kubiak the QB he wanted to draft all of those yrs so that the drafted QB could learn under Schaub. I know for a fact because people we both know told me straight up that Kubiak wanted to draft a QB and RS said no. Also Kubiak had Manning in the building and ready to sign with the Texans, RS said no. It's obvious from RS draft history he didn't properly value the QB position.

If RS would treat the guy who got RS his GM job, what were the odds of RS being able to work with any HC much less BOB?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Good point. Vrabel most likely did not have an owner making it a condition of employment to copycat some other team but rather lets him coach according to his own identity.

There is nothing original about the McNair family. Generic name, logo, colors, and constantly trying to copycat trends instead of letting a GM/HC combo create their own thing. This is quite evident in the focus on mythical "culture" instead of letting it come naturally as a by-product of success.
Just like Flores & Crennel & Patricia Vrabel coached the way he knew. He didn’t know offense so he brought someone else in.

But he’s doing it the Patriot way.

We just happened to get an offensive coach & we fans have been begging for an offensive identity for a long time.

Kelly was a holdover. If they didn’t keep him who knows what kind of offense we’d be running, because we know Culley doesn’t have his own.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I dont think that 1st yr Gibbs was the OL coach. The next season Gibbs was hired and he was responsible for the drafting of DB. It's entirely possible RS/Kubiak knew how good Myers was. But I seriously doubt RS would've brought in Myers without Gibbs blessing. Also it's well documented that Kubiak/Gibbs had connections to Colorada St. and the Rams were running the same ZBS sustem Gibbs was running. Gibbs identified Briesel as somebody to take a flier on since Briesel already knew the system.

Yes, that's the way an org is supposed to work. Somehow though RS didn't get Kubiak the QB he wanted to draft all of those yrs so that the drafted QB could learn under Schaub. I know for a fact because people we both know told me straight up that Kubiak wanted to draft a QB and RS said no. Also Kubiak had Manning in the building and ready to sign with the Texans, RS said no. It's obvious from RS draft history he didn't properly value the QB position.

If RS would treat the guy who got RS his GM job, what were the odds of RS being able to work with any HC much less BOB?
T J Yates ran an exact copy cat of Kubiak's WCO in college.
Though I wish the Texans had taken Wilson, I think Kubiak had the plan for Keenum to be the succesor to Schaub; just not in 2013.

The Broncos signed Keenum while Kubiak was there as the Special Assistant / Advisor something like that.
 

Double Barrel

Admin
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Just like Flores & Crennel & Patricia Vrabel coached the way he knew. He didn’t know offense so he brought someone else in.

But he’s doing it the Patriot way.

We just happened to get an offensive coach & we fans have been begging for an offensive identity for a long time.

Kelly was a holdover. If they didn’t keep him who knows what kind of offense we’d be running, because we know Culley doesn’t have his own.
Vrabel learned the "Patriot way" as a player, not a coach. Big difference.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I dont think that 1st yr Gibbs was the OL coach. The next season Gibbs was hired and he was responsible for the drafting of DB. It's entirely possible RS/Kubiak knew how good Myers was. But I seriously doubt RS would've brought in Myers without Gibbs blessing. Also it's well documented that Kubiak/Gibbs had connections to Colorada St. and the Rams were running the same ZBS sustem Gibbs was running. Gibbs identified Briesel as somebody to take a flier on since Briesel already knew the system.

Yes, that's the way an org is supposed to work. Somehow though RS didn't get Kubiak the QB he wanted to draft all of those yrs so that the drafted QB could learn under Schaub. I know for a fact because people we both know told me straight up that Kubiak wanted to draft a QB and RS said no. Also Kubiak had Manning in the building and ready to sign with the Texans, RS said no. It's obvious from RS draft history he didn't properly value the QB position.

If RS would treat the guy who got RS his GM job, what were the odds of RS being able to work with any HC much less BOB?
I don't know why, even up until now, you still downplay Rick Smith? The Rick Smith ERA is BY FAR the best seasons we've had as Texans fans. Not saying he's a great GM, but he's been the ONLY GM in our franchise's history that has built a winning team.

BTW, that's a contradiction when you say RS had nothing to do with acquiring those offensive lineman... but then later say he's responsible for not getting Kubiak a QB he wanted. You're basically saying Gibbs and Wade had power over player acquisition, but Kubiak doesn't!?
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
T J Yates ran an exact copy cat of Kubiak's WCO in college.
Though I wish the Texans had taken Wilson, I think Kubiak had the plan for Keenum to be the succesor to Schaub; just not in 2013.

The Broncos signed Keenum while Kubiak was there as the Special Assistant / Advisor something like that.
Keenum is the reason Kubiak got fired. Kubiak played Schaub in JAX because he knew 100% of the playbook and thought it gave them the best chance to win. Kubiak reason for not playing Keenum was he only knew 50% of the playbook. Bob McNair wanted Keenum to play. When he didn't he fired Kubiak the next day. Sadly Keenum may have been a much better QB if he had spent the next year as a Texan under Kubiak's tutelage. Keenum was a Kubiak style QB and a polar opposite of a Bill O'Brien QB. This is one of Bob McNair's biggest blunders as the owner of the Houston Texans.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Just so I understand you. Smith was in Denver with Kubes and Gibbs correct? After the last Casserly draft, Kubes brought in Smith , correct? That same year, they traded for the limited start center in Myers correct? They also traded for Schaub and signed Briesel as well as drafted Slayton correct? Basically, in your words, the gm Smith, drafted or traded for players the coach wanted , correct? Whether it was Gibbs who wanted Brown, Kubes, or Smith, he fit the DNA of the player/body type the coach thought fit their scheme correct? Isn't that how an organization is suppose to operate?
I dont think that 1st yr Gibbs was the OL coach. The next season Gibbs was hired and he was responsible for the drafting of DB. It's entirely possible RS/Kubiak knew how good Myers was. But I seriously doubt RS would've brought in Myers without Gibbs blessing. Also it's well documented that Kubiak/Gibbs had connections to Colorada St. and the Rams were running the same ZBS sustem Gibbs was running. Gibbs identified Briesel as somebody to take a flier on since Briesel already knew the system.

Yes, that's the way an org is supposed to work. Somehow though RS didn't get Kubiak the QB he wanted to draft all of those yrs so that the drafted QB could learn under Schaub. I know for a fact because people we both know told me straight up that Kubiak wanted to draft a QB and RS said no. Also Kubiak had Manning in the building and ready to sign with the Texans, RS said no. It's obvious from RS draft history he didn't properly value the QB position.

If RS would treat the guy who got RS his GM job, what were the odds of RS being able to work with any HC much less BOB?
Alex Gibbs joined Kubiak in 2008 two years after the Mike Sherman debacle and the worst running game in the NFL. Gibbs called Kubiak. Kubiak over the moon with Gibbs wanting to join his coaching staff promised him anything he wanted, including their 1st RD pick (aka Duane Brown, drafted in 2008).

After 5 years of having the worst defense in the NFL Bob McNair hired Wade Phillips as Kubiak's DC (2011). McNair promised Wade anything he wanted including 1st RD picks in the next 2 drafts (Watt in 2011, and Mercilus in 2012). Bob McNair's best decision as owner of the Texans.

Throughout Kubiak's run as Texans HC, he had full control over the roster, it was in his contract. Kubiak recommended (Hired) Rick Smith to come in and do what Smith did in Denver as an assistant (Smith was an admin assistant in the Kubiak era). Almost all draft picks were controlled by Kubiak and his coaches. Occasionally they would throw Smith a bone when they needed a CB or S.

If y'all remember prior to Kubiak being fired the Texans front office leaked how they were not happy with the coaches having to much say over the draft and draft picks. (Smith eventually weaseled his way into the good graces of Game Boy and becoming Godfather of Game Boy's children).


https://www.nfl.com/news/houston-texans-brass-frustrated-with-gary-kubiak-0ap2000000278850
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Keenum is the reason Kubiak got fired. Kubiak played Schaub in JAX because he knew 100% of the playbook and thought it gave them the best chance to win. Kubiak reason for not playing Keenum was he only knew 50% of the playbook. Bob McNair wanted Keenum to play. When he didn't he fired Kubiak the next day. Sadly Keenum may have been a much better QB if he had spent the next year as a Texan under Kubiak's tutelage. Keenum was a Kubiak style QB and a polar opposite of a Bill O'Brien QB. This is one of Bob McNair's biggest blunders as the owner of the Houston Texans.
I didn't really want to see Keenum starting that early.
Once he did, I agree with Kubiak to let Keenum go back to bench and let Schaub finish the year.
IMO, you have to let the HC decide who/when to play.
McNair was too meddling.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I don't know why, even up until now, you still downplay Rick Smith? The Rick Smith ERA is BY FAR the best seasons we've had as Texans fans. Not saying he's a great GM, but he's been the ONLY GM in our franchise's history that has built a winning team.

BTW, that's a contradiction when you say RS had nothing to do with acquiring those offensive lineman... but then later say he's responsible for not getting Kubiak a QB he wanted. You're basically saying Gibbs and Wade had power over player acquisition, but Kubiak doesn't!?
Read Texans post for my reply.

One of the posters on this MB who has 1st hand knowledge told me Kubiak wanted a QB and RS said no.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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I didn't really want to see Keenum starting that early.
Once he did, I agree with Kubiak to let Keenum go back to bench and let Schaub finish the year.
IMO, you have to let the HC decide who/when to play.
McNair was too meddling.
Nobody called him Schaub at that time. It was Matt pick six. In fact Schaub threw an interception after replacing Keenum.

would have made more sense to throw Yates in, but he wasn’t active. Another mistake. Yates & Keenum should have been active that day. Schaub a “healthy” scratch.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
On that same thought. You are providing examples of Smith working with the coaching staff to sign players via trade, FA signings or draft picks who the coaches wanted for their scheme. Also, some give credit to Wade Phillips for drafting Watt. So even in that instance, Smith selected a player a coach wanted.

However, when it comes to selecting a QB to replace Schaub, Smith supposedly ignored the wishes of the coaching staff? He abandoned the boardroom approach and went rogue? To this day, that TT narrative never made sense to me.
We know where that narrative came from
 

steelbtexan

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Nobody called him Schaub at that time. It was Matt pick six. In fact Schaub threw an interception after replacing Keenum.

would have made more sense to throw Yates in, but he wasn’t active. Another mistake. Yates & Keenum should have been active that day. Schaub a “healthy” scratch.
Just remember CnD called Schaub's downfall before that season started.
 

steelbtexan

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We know where that narrative came from
A poster who was in the know flat out told me Kubiak wanted RS to draft a QB and RS said no. If you want to call that rouge then so be it. I choose to believe that poster. Why? Because things I've asked him about in the past came true. You can choose to believe him or not.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
A poster who was in the know flat out told me Kubiak wanted RS to draft a QB and RS said no. If you want to call that rouge then so be it. I choose to believe that poster. Why? Because things I've asked him about in the past came true. You can choose to believe him or not.
So Smith made the trade for Schaub because Kubes directed him that way but he didn't draft a qb kubes wanted because of what?
 

steelbtexan

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So Smith made the trade for Schaub because Kubes directed him that way but he didn't draft a qb kubes wanted because of what?
Because RS became the godfather and started calling the shots. There was a round table but the McNair's sided with RS. Atleast that's what I've been told.
 

thunderkyss

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A poster who was in the know flat out told me Kubiak wanted RS to draft a QB and RS said no. If you want to call that rouge then so be it. I choose to believe that poster. Why? Because things I've asked him about in the past came true. You can choose to believe him or not.
That was a time when there were slim pickings for QBs or because of their success the were picking too low to think about trading up for a QB (rightfully the GMs decision).

Rick gave him Yates & Keenum. I think Kubiak could have done well with either of them at least until the Texans were in position to draft a "special" QB.
 

steelbtexan

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That was a time when there were slim pickings for QBs or because of their success the were picking too low to think about trading up for a QB (rightfully the GMs decision).

Rick gave him Yates & Keenum. I think Kubiak could have done well with either of them at least until the Texans were in position to draft a "special" QB.
Yet other teams seemed to be able to trade up for QB's.
 

thunderkyss

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Yet other teams seemed to be able to trade up for QB's.
It is the GMs decision to trade up or not.

If you're telling me Kubiak was pounding the table for a guy & Rick refused that's one thing. A point of discussion. But still Rick's decision to invest the capital.

With hindsight we can see Keenum was as good as any of those guys. So to the point of drafting a QB at that time, I fall on Rick's side.

Now the decision to extend Schaub. I fall on Kubiak's side.

The decision to keep starting Schaub, I think Kubiak made his point & should have moved on.
 


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