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Poll - who do Texans take @ #3?

#3 selection

  • Kyle Hamilton S

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Kayvon Thibodeaux Edge

    Votes: 2 6.7%
  • Aiden Hutchinson Edge

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • Evan Neal LT

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • Tyler Linderbaum C

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • Derek Stingley CB

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ikem Ekwonu T

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • Charles Cross T

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • Garrett Wilson WR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ahmed Gardner CB

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • Total voters
    30
  • Poll closed .
Which talking head has the Lions taking Thibodeaux over Hutchinson?

Watch Combine first. Then traits will dictate conversations. Both will test better or worse in different measureables would just be my guess. Thibodeaux elite edge traits 40 every pole mark, broad jump and vertical. Hutchinson motor, strength, 3 cone, bench.

They all talk about great locker room presence of Hutchinson and I’m sure that’s true, but no mention of Thibodeaux? He is one super cool dude, brimming with confidence who leds by example. Will shine next level I would guarantee it.
 
Talking heads will say differently if for no other reason than to create more interest and controversy. Not to mention some of us actually still believe in Keyvon.

I've been as big a proponent as you, I believe, on the physical ability of Thibodaux. Speed, power, agility, acceleration, etc, he seems to be a B+ at minimum on all levels and an A or above on several. That said I've got a growing concern for a less tangible measurable - his commitment to the game.

After seeing a few recent interviews/clips of his making the rounds he seems like a bright kid with big eyes for his future, but also a kid who's eyes are on far, far more than being an elite player. And frankly I'd prefer a kid who's a B+ at most in terms of attributes but has an A+ commitment to being great versus an A+ player with a B level passion to ball out. But that's just me of course.
 
I've been as big a proponent as you, I believe, on the physical ability of Thibodaux. Speed, power, agility, acceleration, etc, he seems to be a B+ at minimum on all levels and an A or above on several. That said I've got a growing concern for a less tangible measurable - his commitment to the game.

After seeing a few recent interviews/clips of his making the rounds he seems like a bright kid with big eyes for his future, but also a kid who's eyes are on far, far more than being an elite player. And frankly I'd prefer a kid who's a B+ at most in terms of attributes but has an A+ commitment to being great versus an A+ player with a B level passion to ball out. But that's just me of course.

Think you really nailed his draft profile from what I’ve read. Would be more useful first hand. One thing is true he is more than just a football player. Who’s to say or project if he will be a transitional talent or not but I do believe he has highest ceiling on edge and only Hamilton could match per his position and skill set. I’d be feeling really good as a Texan fan if either is drafted by Caserio.
 
I think Thibeddeaux will be a 3-4 edge rusher. We don't run a 3-4. I don't think he's a hand in the dirt 4-3 rush end. He'd be more like Jacob Martin, a specialist.

It would be a waste to square peg him as a 4-3 LB.in a blitz averse cover 2.

I'm not a fan of Thibodeaux at 1-3. But he can definitely play DE in a 4-3 and is pretty good against the run.
 
Watch Combine first. Then traits will dictate conversations. Both will test better or worse in different measureables would just be my guess. Thibodeaux elite edge traits 40 every pole mark, broad jump and vertical. Hutchinson motor, strength, 3 cone, bench.
I wouldn't underestimate Hutchinson's workout numbers. Here's an excerpt of an article from The Athletic on college football's "freaks":

2. Aidan Hutchinson, Michigan, defensive end
After an injury-shortened season that limited him to three games with 15 tackles, sources inside the program expect Hutchinson, who made 68 tackles, 10 tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks in 2019, to have a huge 2021 season. We had his former teammate Kwity Paye at the top of this list a year ago, and we hear that 265-pound Hutchinson is every bit as big a Freak.

“He’s gonna test really well when he goes to the combine,” one source said. “He has a huge chip on his shoulder and can be right where Kwity was (in those agility numbers), running low 4.6s, with a mid-30s vert, but he’s over 6-6, and he’s gonna bench (225) in the 30s.”

While at Michigan, Paye clocked the second-best 3-cone time on the team at 6.37. This offseason, Hutchinson timed 6.54, which would’ve been better than anyone at the 2020 combine. In addition, he vertical jumped 36 inches, ran a 4.64 40 and ripped off a 4.07 shuttle time. Hutchinson also did a 2.57-second reactive plyo stair, which at 265, amazed even his strength coaches. He is the first athlete that veteran strength coach Ben Herbert has witnessed do a “Turkish Get-up” with 135 pounds and no collars (to lock on the plates) in 24 years working in college weight rooms. (Any mistake or hint of imbalance in keeping the bar perfectly level, and the weight will slide off.)
 
I wouldn't underestimate Hutchinson's workout numbers. Here's an excerpt of an article from The Athletic on college football's "freaks":
For those who do not know what a "Turkish get up" is, Google it, then try it. You have to be very coordinated and godawful strong to do 135. And not lose a plate off the barbell.
Must have amazing balance and core strength to do that.
 
Thought it might have been my fault, sometimes when in a hurry to post I don’t double check and re read post before submitting then low and behold, spell check changes entire meaning/word. It’s just a slip that happens to everybody.
I read it wrong the first time. Began to respond on emotion. Before I posted I re-read what you posted & changed my post trying to capture my mistake
 
I voted for Hamilton. But I am now on Evan Neal at 3. Gotta grab a premium OL at 3 because the dropoff is much greater relative to other positions.
My vote is more about Caserio's (& really the Texans) m.o. whatever it is we're thinking, they're not even considering.

There's a disconnect between what we (& every other sane mf in the world) see & what they think.
 
Somewhat surprised, I'm still liking my pick Charles Cross (the only one). Of course that is presuming Tunsil is traded. I'm from the school of if you need a LT you go find the best possible pass blocking LT you can find and that is Charles Cross. Reminds me of when Texans desperately needed a pass rusher. So, what does Frank Bush do, drafts Brian Cushing with Clay Matthews still on the board. Anyone with half a brain knew that on 3rd downs, Cushing was on the Trojans sideline while Matthews was on the field rushing the passer. So in true Texans fashion expect the Texans to draft an OG when what they need is a LT. :sarcasm:

Of course if Tunsil is not traded I am warming up to a Lovie type pick; Travon Walker
 
Somewhat surprised, I'm still liking my pick Charles Cross (the only one). Of course that is presuming Tunsil is traded. I'm from the school of if you need a LT you go find the best possible pass blocking LT you can find and that is Charles Cross. Reminds me of when Texans desperately needed a pass rusher. So, what does Frank Bush do, drafts Brian Cushing with Clay Matthews still on the board. Anyone with half a brain knew that on 3rd downs, Cushing was on the Trojans sideline while Matthews was on the field rushing the passer. So in true Texans fashion expect the Texans to draft an OG when what they need is a LT. :sarcasm:

Of course if Tunsil is not traded I am warming up to a Lovie type pick; Travon Walker
The front office has stated that they want to run the ball, and across was mostly pass pro. I’d see them taking Neal or Ekwonu before taking Cross.
 
The front office has stated that they want to run the ball, and across was mostly pass pro. I’d see them taking Neal or Ekwonu before taking Cross.
Understood. Couple of points;

the primary purpose of a LT is to protect the QB.

even good teams that can run ball will still pass the ball 30+ times a game.

Teams run to the right 50% or more of the time.

Lovie also said they want to be able to pass the ball well too.

Folks assume because Cross is good in pass pro he can't run block. His game tapes suggest differently.

Also easier to take LT good on pass pro and to be good in run vs a LT good in rub block to be good in pass pro. Some OT don't have athleticism to be good pass pro.

Cross athleticism sets up well to run block in Pep's WCO/ZBS.
 
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So, what does Frank Bush do, drafts Brian Cushing with Clay Matthews still on the board. Anyone with half a brain knew that on 3rd downs, Cushing was on the Trojans sideline while Matthews was on the field
Pretty sure Frank Bush didn't make that call.

& I'm not defending Cushing over Matthews.

But, I remember thinking I'd draft Jarvis Landry over OBJ.

Sometimes a gamble like that would work out. But we are not & never have been in a position to gamble. We need to make sound decisions
 
Voted Neal. Not convinced anymore? Starting to get Clowney feelings….. really need to revisit Hamilton, Stingley and now Sauce. Corners are so integral and safety like Hamilton come around only so often. Even though Mills deserves plus protection, LT/LG combo and Center. $hitt so many positions like to see upgraded it clouds ones perception, B52 on patio also :wesmantexanfan:
 
Voted Neal. Not convinced anymore? Starting to get Clowney feelings….. really need to revisit Hamilton, Stingley and now Sauce. Corners are so integral and safety like Hamilton come around only so often. Even though Mills deserves plus protection, LT/LG combo and Center. $hitt so many positions like to see upgraded it clouds ones perception, B52 on patio also :wesmantexanfan:

Are you at B-52's?

I would've come up there and met you.
 
Drinking the sauce, change my selection from Neal to Gardner.

I've got Gardener at #5 on my board.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue with him at #3.

How would you like this draft

Rd.1 Sauce
Rd.2 Watson
Rd.3 Salyer
Rd.3 Ingram
Rd.4 Zamir or Rashaad White
 
Pretty sure Frank Bush didn't make that call.

& I'm not defending Cushing over Matthews.

But, I remember thinking I'd draft Jarvis Landry over OBJ.

Sometimes a gamble like that would work out. But we are not & never have been in a position to gamble. We need to make sound decisions
Pretty sure he did. I remember Bush saying how he had been eye balling Cushing for over a year and half and when time came for the draft and Cushing was available that was his guy. As we all know Kubiak was very accommodating in letting his coaches make draft picks. We are also very familiar with how bad the defense was at the time and needed immediate attention.
 
A massive NT actually isn’t so crazy considering the division boasts two of the best RBs in the league.

But I don’t see it at 3.
No question Lovie is all about rushing the QB with four DL. Do you think he’d rather get that push up the middle? Or from the edge? We seem to me to be thinner at DT.
 
If you’re only rushing 4, they all have to be able to consistently beat one on one pass protection
 
I’m going with the DT’s. I want to see us build from the inside out collapsing pockets and stuffing inside runs. Fits in with the physical approach Lovie desires.

Davis’ attributes tell me he could’ve been more productive as a pass rusher in college if Georgia weren’t so deep on the DL that they had the luxury to rest him in pass rush situations. Jermaine Johnson is going to be a first round pick this year and he transferred due to insufficient playing time!

The Texans will not have that luxury. He’d get the Watt play every down treatment here.
 
I’m going with the DT’s. I want to see us build from the inside out collapsing pockets and stuffing inside runs. Fits in with the physical approach Lovie desires.

If Caserio can re-sign Collins. Then I'm on board with Sauce or Hamilton at #3.

Of course Davis or Walker at #3 and Sam Williams at 68 would solve alot of issues on defense.

A dl like this is how championships are built

Greenard/Davis/ Collins/Williams
 
Okay, time for an update.
Kyle Hamilton S is leading with 10 votes.
Evan Neal T is next on 8.
Ikem Ekwonu T is next with 3.
Oddly enough, Derek Stingley CB has 0 - and I would not be surprised if he is Texans pick if they select at #3, and I won't be upset.
 
Okay, time for an update.
Kyle Hamilton S is leading with 10 votes.
Evan Neal T is next on 8.
Ikem Ekwonu T is next with 3.
Oddly enough, Derek Stingley CB has 0 - and I would not be surprised if he is Texans pick if they select at #3, and I won't be upset.
I wouldn't be surprised. Texans don't need no medical reports.
 
Okay, time for an update.
Kyle Hamilton S is leading with 10 votes.
Evan Neal T is next on 8.
Ikem Ekwonu T is next with 3.
Oddly enough, Derek Stingley CB has 0 - and I would not be surprised if he is Texans pick if they select at #3, and I won't be upset.
I'd change my vote from Evan to ikem if I could, he is fun to watch. Imo I'd have no problem if they slot him into guard and becomes our version of Quinton Nelson
 
I'd change my vote from Evan to ikem if I could, he is fun to watch. Imo I'd have no problem if they slot him into guard and becomes our version of Quinton Nelson


The Oilers began their rebuild with Mike Munchak at the same position ! Hamilton says our offense will be rebuilt to run the the ball with physicality and nastiness. I feel like this is bassackwards compared to where the league is heading, but not my call. It worked for us in 1960's High School football .... could the game really change that much in 60 years ? Surely Not ! At any rate, if we're going to employ said antiquated style of offense, we got to make serious personnel changes. Laremy Tunsil run blocks with all the ferocity of a little girl, and we don't have a left guard. Ickey and Trevor Penning would be the hard to get, but it could be done ! One thing for sure .... they would set the tone !
 
The Oilers began their rebuild with Mike Munchak at the same position ! Hamilton says our offense will be rebuilt to run the the ball with physicality and nastiness. I feel like this is bassackwards compared to where the league is heading, but not my call. It worked for us in 1960's High School football .... could the game really change that much in 60 years ? Surely Not ! At any rate, if we're going to employ said antiquated style of offense, we got to make serious personnel changes. Laremy Tunsil run blocks with all the ferocity of a little girl, and we don't have a left guard. Ickey and Trevor Penning would be the hard to get, but it could be done ! One thing for sure .... they would set the tone !
Absolutely. Trevor is another guy I love to have on my team, the “no Mercy” attitude they both bring would be contagious.

one things certain, I would feel a whole lot better about mills protection with those two on the line
 
The Oilers began their rebuild with Mike Munchak at the same position ! Hamilton says our offense will be rebuilt to run the the ball with physicality and nastiness. I feel like this is bassackwards compared to where the league is heading, but not my call. It worked for us in 1960's High School football .... could the game really change that much in 60 years ? Surely Not ! At any rate, if we're going to employ said antiquated style of offense, we got to make serious personnel changes. Laremy Tunsil run blocks with all the ferocity of a little girl, and we don't have a left guard. Ickey and Trevor Penning would be the hard to get, but it could be done ! One thing for sure .... they would set the tone !
If Pep runs pretty much a WCO, then he is gonna have to be able to set the edges. You have Tunsil on the left, so you're gonna need someone decent on the right.
 
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